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Thermoelectric material could recycle energy lost through exhaust pipe


CHICAGO - A new, highly efficient material that converts heat into electricity may one day help cars get the most out of a gallon of gas, U.S. researchers said on Thursday.

Only about 25 percent of the energy produced by a typical gasoline engine is used to move the vehicle or run accessories like the radio or windshield wipers, they said. Much of the rest escapes through the exhaust pipe.

Researchers at Ohio State University in Columbus and Caltech in Pasadena, California, think they can recycle some of that lost energy with a new thermoelectric material that is twice as effective as current materials.

"The material does all the work. It produces electrical power just like conventional heat engines â€" steam engines, gas or diesel engines â€" that are coupled to electrical generators, but it uses electrons as the working fluids instead of water or gases, and makes electricity directly," Joseph Heremans, who led the project, said in a statement.

Jeff Snyder of Caltech, who worked on the project, said a thermoelectric device that converts heat from exhaust into electricity could improve a car's fuel efficiency by 10 percent.

Snyder, who previously developed such devices for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said the idea of using thermoelectrics had been around for a long time, but the economics did not make sense when oil cost $20 a barrel.

"Now that energy costs have gone up by a factor of five, these alternative ideas that have been around for awhile are a lot more viable," Snyder said in a telephone interview.

He believes it would be possible to make the systems within the next five to 10 years.

Whether it catches on, Snyder said, will depend on the cost of the system and the energy market. If made on a large scale, Snyder said it might be possible to develop the systems for $10 a unit or less.

Currently, the most efficient material used commercially in thermoelectric power generators is an alloy called sodium-doped lead telluride, which has a rating of 0.71. By adding a bit of thallium to the lead telluride, the researchers doubled the efficiency rating to 1.5.

Tests of the material found it might be ideally suited for use in engines. They found that at near 450 degrees Fahrenheit (230 degrees Celsius), the material converted heat to electricity at about the same efficiency rating as currently available materials.

At higher temperatures, it became more efficient, hitting its peak efficiency rating of 1.5 at 950 degrees F (500 degrees Celsius).

Between 450 degrees and 950 degrees Fahrenheit is about the typical range for power systems, such as car engines, Heremans said.

Copyright © 2008 Reuters. Last bit at the source.

Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25840353/)

Great post always interested in learning of new possible ways to run cars.My hubby is working for a biodiesel company and they are researching cleaner,cheaper and better for human health ways to run any type of car/transport.Only problem I see would be the oil companies trying to stop this.Or figuring out a way to do this themselves and charging us an arm and leg for it.On the news a few weeks ago they showed a man who uses propane for fuel.He said to fill up it costs him $7 American.Only throwback is that he has to keep the tanks in his trunk which takes up most of the room.If I'm remembering right it cost his around 3k to get the whole setup.But it will pay itself back much sooner then having to spend 20k to get a new car.

Quote from: "Asmodean""Now that energy costs have gone up by a factor of five, these alternative ideas that have been around for awhile are a lot more viable," Snyder said in a telephone interview.

 :brick:   [/rant]

Yup. Money. If a gallon of gas can get you four times the distance it does today, that means you really only need 1/4 of the gas you use. Which in turn means 1/4 the income for some fat corporate bottom.  

*scratches head*

Combustion engines don't run on electricity.  So.. umm.. how's this supposed to help?

I could see it being a way to make a Hybrid vehicle's battery charging system work more efficiently, but it still requires you to have a Hybrid vehicle first.

I wonder what the numbers are of this thermoelectric substance in a pure electric vehicle?

I just learned last night that coal can be turned into oil.  This is something I never considered before.  North America has the ability to produce more of it's own oil and it's not being done!  WTF?!  

Sometimes I really hate my government.

Quote from: "MommaSquid"I just learned last night that coal can be turned into oil.  This is something I never considered before.  North America has the ability to produce more of it's own oil and it's not being done!  WTF?!  

Sometimes I really hate my government.

To the best of my knowledge, it's kind of like producing hydrogen by electrolysing water. It requires a lot of energy to produce, so they don't do it. I may be wrong though...

So is this "coal to oil" thing different from the "liquid coal?"

Either way, if we used coal to run our cars we'd have less coal to generate electricity so we'd find ourselves getting the old "Marne Shaft."

Well seeing how the price of electric is going up to don't think it would make much difference.We really need cars that run on something that is easier to get,cheaper and in more abundance.Like water or solar power.

What we need is proper public transportation.

What we need is a direct matter to energy conversion engine.  Just throw some garbage in the tank and off you go for another couple of thousand miles.

Quote from: "Asmodean"What we need is proper public transportation.

Well if you live out as far as I do then it would be more of a waste then anything else.

Quote from: "Asmodean"What we need is  proper public transportation.

It all depends on where you live, where you want to go to, how often and at what times the service runs and how long it takes.
If I want to go from my place to the center of Frankfurt it will take me 15 minutes by train. By car it would take me at least 40 minutes, because of the traffic and problems finding a parking place. This means that I always go to Frankfurt by public transport. Should I want to go with public transport to a nearby village where my friend lives then I am doomed, because there is only one bus per hour, that bus takes 40 minutes to go to the center of the village (only 3 miles), I'll have to walk 25 minutes to reach my friend's place and I better go back early because the bus service ends at 7:30 PM.

Indeeed, for going out to the country, private transportation is probably best. Still, in cities and towns, there is no reason for not having decent web of railways, subways and/or buses.

You know when you turn on the A/C and your car looses a little power and sucks a little more gas? Same thing with your alternator that powers all your electrical shit in your car. THats probably part of the reason why older, less electrically regulated cars could readily get 40mpg if you drive it softly (my sis' prior 87 Corolla got 38 highway with ME driving...uphill...get my drift?).

But yeah with all the electrical equipment on cars, the alternator load is a significant factor. Its load will vary with the electricity needed. Less noticable, but very present.



I am only confused on their temp numbers. Generally cars engine temp gauges read off the coolant temp. Which is about 200 F often times. More or less. I dont know where they could apply this material that it would exceed that by too much...??? Maybe the exhaust cause that gets fuckin hot...

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"*scratches head*

Combustion engines don't run on electricity.  So.. umm.. how's this supposed to help?

I could see it being a way to make a Hybrid vehicle's battery charging system work more efficiently, but it still requires you to have a Hybrid vehicle first.

I wonder what the numbers are of this thermoelectric substance in a pure electric vehicle?

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"...
But yeah with all the electrical equipment on cars, the alternator load is a significant factor. Its load will vary with the electricity needed. Less noticable, but very present.

...

Ahh.. so the intent probably is less of a "big wizzbang" solution and more of a way to make a car slightly more efficient.  That makes sense.

But if we make cars more efficient how are we supposed to do this:

http://www.geekologie.com/2008/05/diy_c ... ng_exh.php (http://www.geekologie.com/2008/05/diy_car_mods_flamethrowing_exh.php)

[mock redneck voice] Helllll yeahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I'ma put that sumbitch on my F250, git me a 6 inch lift, wench up front, get fuckin' coked up, an' ride aroun' town, an run me over some commie liberal pussies. [/voice]