Ok so the problem I'm having is with my '01 PT. The first problem I had was over heating before I could even drive a mile down the road, then the power steering went out. So I've replaced the water pump and power steering pump. Now the other day when I went to put the fluid in, I'm leaking coolant from under where the new water pump is located. I put RTV on the O-ring and tightened the sucker as tight as I could with my hands. What my Father and I think it is, either I didn't tighten it enough, or the O-ring moved when I put it on.
I followed all the instructions on this playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLymSITx6pUAn4JPhXTDwMlLn2ilXFxG0e
and the instructions from "Cartman" on this website:
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/general-pt-cruiser-discussions/16819-replacing-power-steering.html
I'm going to take it back apart as in the videos shown and see what I come up with but I was curious if you had any ideas.
Well, your number one problem is that you've bought a Chrysler. 8)
If you have tightened it as much as you can, the o-ring has probably slipped or been broken somehow.
That's the first thing I would check, anyway.
You could be OVER tightening. Gaskets have a specific torque spec and it's often more "snug" than tight. Too tight and the seal gets squished so much around the fasteners that it can't seal properly. I'd look up the spec if I were you. Looking at whether the spec is in ft/lbs or in/lbs will give you a good general idea as to how tight it needs to be and a cheap torque wrench might be good insurance against getting stranded. A beam type can be had for around $20 - but check the UNITS - if you have enough space under the hood to use that type. A clicker can be had for not too much more and you might even be able to rent one from your parts store.
I've never messed with a Chrysler so this is just a guess. Seen plenty of people put all the ass they had into a fastner holding a seal and then wonder why it was still leaking.
I don't know this car, but I can't help wondering: if two separate pumps stopped working, was the fault with the pumps or with belt slippage or whatever?
Quote from: OldGit on April 24, 2016, 10:37:05 AM
I don't know this car, but I can't help wondering: if two separate pumps stopped working, was the fault with the pumps or with belt slippage or whatever?
They run on different belts and I just replaced them both anyway. Both were tight when I took them off and put the new ones on.
Mr. Goldblum, I am surprised you are a do it yourselfer. Did you check to see if there was a build up of gunk between the O-ring and its housing?
Also, you can go to auto zone and rent a pressure test, you will most assuredly find your culprit.
Quote from: No one on April 24, 2016, 06:21:53 PM
Mr. Goldblum, I am surprised you are a do it yourselfer. Did you check to see if there was a build up of gunk between the O-ring and its housing?
Also, you can go to auto zone and rent a pressure test, you will most assuredly find your culprit.
Yeah, I cleaned the thing off before I put anything on. The pressure test sounds like a good idea since jumbojak made such a good contribution come to light. I was actually told that I didn't tighten it enough by my Dad before he could even look at it. So yeah that's a good idea I never would have thought of. I'll check that out.
I just looked it up and though I'm not totally confident in the source - couldn't get the AutoZone spec site to work - it looks like the water pump bolts spec at 100 in/lbs. That's definitely more snug than tight, coming in at just over 8 ft/lbs. Either try just tightening the bolts with a palm wheel ratchet (you can cheat that by holding a regular ratchet just by the head to reduce leverage, unless of course you have beastly hands...) or get your hands on an in/lbs torque wrench to do the job.
Source (http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/tech-performance-forum/36695-timing-repair-project-bolt-torque-specs.html) - Calling an auto parts store would be worthwhile, just to be sure.
Thanks for that jumbojak. I'll probably end up calling them.
Haven't had the chance to work on it today because the gym. Tomorrow is raining so hopefully Tuesday, probably Wednesday.
Never do it yourself - always hire someone else. That way, if something goes wrong, you'll have someone to blame and sue.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on April 27, 2016, 11:54:12 PM
Never do it yourself - always hire someone else. That way, if something goes wrong, you'll have someone to blame and sue.
Don't have money to hire someone else.
OK it wasn't the water pump at all! It was a bolt under the place where you add anti-freeze. It no longer leaks and now I have other problems:
it stalls,
the power steering still isn't there (I also replaced the power steering pump / checked power steering fluid),
I'm pretty sure the engine is still going to over heat although it did not while I was driving. It got real hot (not over heated) before I could reach the end of my road then it stalled and as I drove back the heat kept going down and stalled one more time as I got into my drive way.
I think it may be that the timing is off because we had to take the timing belt off and recalibrate it manually.
You guys had some great ideas before, wondering if you could help me again on this. (please don't ask me to sell my car :grin:)
Did the engine seem to run properly before the stall? If the timing was not adjusted properly it likely wouldn't, though I have seen stranger things than a vehicle that behaves in that way. If the timing is just a hair off you could cause all sorts of problems with the diagnostic systems in the car. Fortunately I don't think you have a full interference engine. Timing problems on those can leave you royally fucked.
You said that you replaced a bolt under the place where you add antifreeze that was leaking coolant; was this below the filler cap or the radiator cap? Those are two different locations and if it was the filler cap there could well be a leak - even just a pinhole - in the transfer line which is allowing the system to suck air instead of coolant, depending on what this bolt was for. Some pictures would be REALLY helpful here.
If there's a bolt below the radiator cap that somehow holds the coolant in the system then you've lost me completely. I've never seen a radiator that had any sort of fastener in the radiator itself. There will be fasteners mounting the radiator to the frame but there shouldn't be anything threaded into the radiator unless Chrysler is weirder than I thought they were.... which again, is possible.
Are you getting any codes from the ECU? If so, it might be worthwhile to have them checked to be sure a sensor isn't causing the stalling either due to the coolant issues or for some other reason. The problems could be coincidental, however unlikely that seems.
A few other things to look into:
Thermostat - could be remaining closed, causing the engine to overheat
Radiator - could be plugged up, causing the engine to overheat
Radiator fan - could be dead, causing the engine to overheat at low speeds
Also, are you certain that all the belts were reinstalled properly? That might explain the power steering issues but I would focus on the overheating and stalling first. You can drive without power steering but not when the car runs hot. The two issues might be linked but that complicates the diagnosis considerably. A good scanner would go a long way to ironing out a problem like that.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 AM
Did the engine seem to run properly before the stall? If the timing was not adjusted properly it likely wouldn't, though I have seen stranger things than a vehicle that behaves in that way. If the timing is just a hair off you could cause all sorts of problems with the diagnostic systems in the car. Fortunately I don't think you have a full interference engine. Timing problems on those can leave you royally fucked.
It ran well, a little putt here and there but for the most part pretty well.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 AM
You said that you replaced a bolt under the place where you add antifreeze that was leaking coolant; was this below the filler cap or the radiator cap? Those are two different locations and if it was the filler cap there could well be a leak - even just a pinhole - in the transfer line which is allowing the system to suck air instead of coolant, depending on what this bolt was for. Some pictures would be REALLY helpful here.
If there's a bolt below the radiator cap that somehow holds the coolant in the system then you've lost me completely. I've never seen a radiator that had any sort of fastener in the radiator itself. There will be fasteners mounting the radiator to the frame but there shouldn't be anything threaded into the radiator unless Chrysler is weirder than I thought they were.... which again, is possible.
I'll try to get you some pictures. I'm not sure where it actually was being that my Father did the finding and replacing while I was away.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 AM
Are you getting any codes from the ECU? If so, it might be worthwhile to have them checked to be sure a sensor isn't causing the stalling either due to the coolant issues or for some other reason. The problems could be coincidental, however unlikely that seems.
I got one oil light come up on the dash just before it stalled the first time but that's it. Besides that, I wouldn't have a way to check it.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 AM
A few other things to look into:
Thermostat - could be remaining closed, causing the engine to overheat
Radiator - could be plugged up, causing the engine to overheat
Radiator fan - could be dead, causing the engine to overheat at low speeds
I've replaced all those and run the fan manually so I know it works. Although I had to remove the radiator to get to the power steering pump so that is a possibility.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 02, 2016, 05:27:41 AM
Also, are you certain that all the belts were reinstalled properly? That might explain the power steering issues but I would focus on the overheating and stalling first. You can drive without power steering but not when the car runs hot. The two issues might be linked but that complicates the diagnosis considerably. A good scanner would go a long way to ironing out a problem like that.
God I hope not. My Dad did all the work in a few hours because like I said, I was at the gym. But even the two of us struggled to attempt to put the serpentine belt on the wrong way before we realized it was too hard and looked it up on the phone. It didn't take long to figure out which is which.
https://www.google.com/search?q=2001+pt+cruiser+serpentine+belt+diagram&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=622&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG0pyP47zMAhXGFx4KHczYCfUQ_AUIBygC
On the timing belt we did together and didn't look at a diagram so in all possibility it IS that. We also manually cranked 2 rotations to make sure it was aligned properly which, in under the conditions we were in, was pretty difficult to do. The camshaft and crankshaft marks were pretty low even though we raised the engine to eyeball there alignment. This time I will use a triangle square to check it.
Lay out the problems you had along with what you did to fix them in order. You didn't mention replacing the thermostat before and it could be something as simple as having it installed upside down in the housing (either the thermostat or the seal) leading to it not being able to open properly. That's the sort of simple thing that could lead to overheating. This will help you collect your own thoughts too.
Also, it was just the oil light? No other indicators turned on that would normally light up with the key in the on position before starting the vehicle? That usually happens when a car stalls. And you can't either rent or borrow a scanner? There are sooooooooo many system malfunctions that could lead to stalling it'd be very difficult to pin anything down without some help from the ECU. You can shotgun parts at a modern car for a long time before fixing the real problem.
Apathy, how long is it gonna take to fix your car?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSM9cMdz.gif&hash=b1fd2b45aa6e7c83b5f6c980944774e537d83e19)
When are you coming back?
Quote from: Magdalena on May 11, 2016, 11:02:07 PM
Apathy, how long is it gonna take to fix your car?
At least until next weekend.
Quote from: Magdalena on May 11, 2016, 11:02:07 PM
When are you coming back?
Hi.
So yeah the reason I haven't been back is because I didn't want to lay out my the problems and what I did to fix them. But I'm back because it's been too long so I am going to end up writing that list. How are you?
I'm fine, thank you for asking. I wanted to make sure you were still around, that's all...you know, talk about the weather, Pahu, etc.
I'll just sit here and wait until you finish writing your list. :grin:
I don't actually know who Pahu is... :shifty:
The resident asshat.
Quote from: Apathy on May 12, 2016, 02:58:14 AM
I don't actually know who Pahu is... :shifty:
No one does. :smileshake:
I don't mean, No one does, I mean no one does.
He is a mystery. :sherlock2:
Quote from: Magdalena on May 12, 2016, 04:12:36 AM
Quote from: Apathy on May 12, 2016, 02:58:14 AM
I don't actually know who Pahu is... :shifty:
No one does. :smileshake:
I don't mean, No one does, I mean no one does.
He is a mystery. :sherlock2:
Well gang, it looks like :mysterious:
Do we know anything about him?
Quote from: No one on May 12, 2016, 03:02:08 AM
The resident asshat.
I'm no fan of
Pahu, but he's a member in good standing, for now. Calling a fellow member negative names can result in warnings from the staff. Please keep that in mind.
Quote from: Apathy on May 12, 2016, 04:28:49 AMDo we know anything about him?
He's been around the net for several years, doing the same thing he's doing here. I've seen him engage in very limited discussion once in a while, but it's not common. There are some indications that English is not his first language, but I'm not positive about that.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 03, 2016, 05:23:32 AM
Lay out the problems you had along with what you did to fix them in order. You didn't mention replacing the thermostat before and it could be something as simple as having it installed upside down in the housing (either the thermostat or the seal) leading to it not being able to open properly. That's the sort of simple thing that could lead to overheating. This will help you collect your own thoughts too.
Also, it was just the oil light? No other indicators turned on that would normally light up with the key in the on position before starting the vehicle? That usually happens when a car stalls. And you can't either rent or borrow a scanner? There are sooooooooo many system malfunctions that could lead to stalling it'd be very difficult to pin anything down without some help from the ECU. You can shotgun parts at a modern car for a long time before fixing the real problem.
Ok so to fix the over heating problem we did several things:
- replaced the radiator
- replace the thermostat
- replace the water pump
To fix the power steering we did these:
- Add steering fluid
- replace the power steering pump
Also there is problem with the air conditioning and the interior heat so we did this:
- Replace the serpentine belt
Also just to recap what's been said so far, the water pump came with a new timing belt so the old one was replaced as well, and now the car putters and stalls. Also yes, the only thing that lights up is the oil light when it stalls.
Just a thought, is the crank position sensor located where it could have been damaged while the timing belt was changed? Some are right around the crank pulley while others operate off the flywheel. That might explain the problems you are having; the cps isn't working properly which causes the engine to stall; a cps can fail without turning on the check engine light; the oil light flashes when the engine stalls and oil pressure drops.
Like I said, it's just a thought.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 24, 2016, 01:08:04 AM
Just a thought, is the crank position sensor located where it could have been damaged while the timing belt was changed? Some are right around the crank pulley while others operate off the flywheel. That might explain the problems you are having; the cps isn't working properly which causes the engine to stall; a cps can fail without turning on the check engine light; the oil light flashes when the engine stalls and oil pressure drops.
Like I said, it's just a thought.
No idea but I'll check though. Chances are my Dad left me alone on this one so it may take an exaggerated amount of time to even check. And I'm trying to get a job in landscaping so that will make things take even longer.
Quote from: jumbojak on May 24, 2016, 01:08:04 AM
Just a thought, is the crank position sensor located where it could have been damaged while the timing belt was changed?
I just looked up the image of the engine. The crankshaft position sensor is in the front of the engine behind where the fan is. When we worked on the car to replace the power steering pump, we had to remove the fan and it may have been damaged that way. I will bring it up with my partner and see what he says.
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