QuoteWhile the Super Bowl commercial has become a mainstream staple of the game, viewers in some markets will be shown something new, commercials featuring bloody aborted babies.
Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, is running for president. However, Terry is not running on the Republican ticket, but is running as a Democrat against Barack Obama.
Terry has already run political ads featuring graphic images of babies killed by abortion during the first and second trimester. The ads were part of a three day ad run in New Hampshire on WBIN. The ads consisted of four 30 second spots that ran in rotation that attacked Obama?s support of child killing by abortion.
Terry is also planning on purchasing similar ads in local markets during the Super Bowl.
While ads of this type have frequently been rejected by television agencies for their graphic content, Terry is using a loophole in federal election law that requires stations to run his ads.
FEC regulations require television stations to run ads by a political candidate within 45 days of an election. This means that primary states that fall within the 45 day window will have to run the graphic ads during the Super Bowl if he purchases the slots.
The campaign says they have ads ready to go in 40 markets, including Colorado. The first ad was purchased on Friday, January 6.
While Terry realizes he stands little chance of getting the Democratic nomination, he said he is running in order to give pro-life Catholics and evangelicals in the Democratic Party a choice during the primary season.
The difference between the candidates could not be more stark. Obama has 100 percent rating from militant pro-abortion group NARAL. While a state Senator in Illinois, Obama vetoed a bill that would require babies that survived an abortion be given medical treatment.
By contrast, while with Operation Rescue, Terry was arrested nearly 50 times and incarcerated nearly one full year for his defense of the unborn.
http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=12823
Do you think it's appropriate or a smart political move to show graphic pictures of aborted fetuses during the Super Bowl?
I don't really care other than that it is a misrepresentation of the vast majority of elective abortions (most occur very early on).
But I do think it will piss off a lot of parents who don't want their kids being subjective to graphic images while watching a football game.
Quote from: Whitney on January 11, 2012, 11:51:20 PM
I don't really care other than that it is a misrepresentation of the vast majority of elective abortions (most occur very early on).
But I do think it will piss off a lot of parents who don't want their kids being subjective to graphic images while watching a football game.
That's kind of what I was thinking too. Which is why I think it's a poor choice if this person actually wants to get his message heard (not to mention run for president, although I think even he knows what a joke that is.)
Of course abortions don't look pretty. Anything that comes out of a person's body isn't going to look very nice.
I mean, Jeez, if I ripped a tooth out of my head and took a picture of it covered in blood with nerves and veins hanging out of it, that'd look pretty gross and would give a lot of people the willies. But it's not really an argument; it's pure politics: graphic image = visceral reaction = emotional reaction = political support.
Those fetuses, they would make good fish bait, doncha think? :D
Show a covered nipple = World ends
Show an abortion is ok then?
Quote from: Tank on January 12, 2012, 01:15:18 PM
Show a covered nipple = World ends
Show an abortion is ok then?
America is so fucking backwards.
Yeah, sure, let's demonise abortions, so more victims of rape and incest wont get it. It's like the woman already suffers getting one. It is an extreme emotional trauma to most people, but it is still their body/theie choice!!
I am stick of ths republican smear fest.
Quote from: Tank on January 12, 2012, 01:15:18 PM
Show a covered nipple = World ends
Show an abortion is ok then?
I think Randall Terry has seriously miscalculated delivering his message.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 12, 2012, 04:38:06 PM
Quote from: Tank on January 12, 2012, 01:15:18 PM
Show a covered nipple = World ends
Show an abortion is ok then?
I think Randall Terry has seriously miscalculated delivering his message.
Me too. I think most people (even those that are pro-life) are going to object to this strategy of a) running what basically amounts to a fake campaign for the presidency so that he can take advantage of a loophole in the law and b) showing graphic and disturbing pictures during what most people consider to be a family friendly event.
I have really mixed feelings on abortions. On one hand, I actually do believe that life starts at conception. It's not some religious "godsaidso" thing, I just can't think of another time when a person becomes a person that doesn't seem really arbitrary. I think about my son, and I think that he was always "him" - just a less developed form of "him". But he's less developed now than he will be at 5 or 10 or 20, so development doesn't seem like a good judge of "personhood." And the fact that he was a person just because I wanted him seems kind of arbitrary too. How can someone else define personhood on the sheer basis of whether or not the person is wanted? That's fucked up.
On the other hand, I realize this isn't a black and white issue, and that not everyone feels the same way about it as I do, and that there are other issues at play like a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body and make her own medical decisions. And I think that if you are going to start trying to tell a woman what she should do in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, then you'd better be ready to put your money where your mouth is and support programs that help women and children such as universal healthcare. So I think it's not up to me (or the government) to tell a woman what to do in that situation. Even though I am personally pretty anti-abortion (at least when it comes to myself) I still effing hate these pro-lifers that feel the need to display pictures of abortions at otherwise happy events. The always show up to the Race for the Cure too. Jerks.
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PM
So I think it's not up to me (or the government) to tell a woman what to do in that situation. Even though I am personally pretty anti-abortion (at least when it comes to myself) I still effing hate these pro-lifers that feel the need to display pictures of abortions at otherwise happy events.
I snipped that only for brevity -- agree with everything you wrote. Personally I believe that abortion is killing a human being -- that's it's a human being in the very earliest stages of life doesn't matter to me. On the other hand, given the circumstances of two people and one body, I do think it's the mother's privilege to decide whether to continue a pregnancy, and that she's the only one who understands her situation well enough to make that call. Neither the Government nor any religious group has any business dictating to her about it. I do wish there were more support programs to make it easier for women to have children under difficult circumstances, but even if there were that wouldn't eliminate the mother's right to abortion.
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PM
Even though I am personally pretty anti-abortion (at least when it comes to myself) I still effing hate these pro-lifers that feel the need to display pictures of abortions at otherwise happy events. The always show up to the Race for the Cure too. Jerks.
Good Lordy, why do they show up at Race for the Cure?
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on January 12, 2012, 06:21:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PM
Even though I am personally pretty anti-abortion (at least when it comes to myself) I still effing hate these pro-lifers that feel the need to display pictures of abortions at otherwise happy events. The always show up to the Race for the Cure too. Jerks.
Good Lordy, why do they show up at Race for the Cure?
Ready to be disgusted? They park this huge van that has pictures of aborted fetuses by the overpass at the beginning of the race course so that everyone who walks by sees it, and then they stand along the course with signs that say things like "Abortion Causes Breast Cancer." One year, I was walking next to a woman who was obviously a survivor (wearing the pink shirt) and she yelled something along the lines of "How dare you bring your negativity here." and the Pro-Lifer yelled back "How many abortions have
you had, lady?" The crowd surged at him and the police officers that have to stand by them and protect them had to physically intervene. Bad news.
They also stand at a really busy intersection here in Denver on most nice days. Hubby and I have a long standing tradition of flipping them off as we drive by. Taking the high road and all that.
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 06:30:46 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on January 12, 2012, 06:21:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PM
Even though I am personally pretty anti-abortion (at least when it comes to myself) I still effing hate these pro-lifers that feel the need to display pictures of abortions at otherwise happy events. The always show up to the Race for the Cure too. Jerks.
Good Lordy, why do they show up at Race for the Cure?
Ready to be disgusted? They park this huge van that has pictures of aborted fetuses by the overpass at the beginning of the race course so that everyone who walks by sees it, and then they stand along the course with signs that say things like "Abortion Causes Breast Cancer." One year, I was walking next to a woman who was obviously a survivor (wearing the pink shirt) and she yelled something along the lines of "How dare you bring your negativity here." and the Pro-Lifer yelled back "How many abortions have you had, lady?" The crowd surged at him and the police officers that have to stand by them and protect them had to physically intervene. Bad news.
That is
insane!
It may just be me, but hard core pro-lifers are on my list right next to PETA supporters in terms of general stupidity. I also never really got why abortion was such a bad thing either.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on January 12, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
It may just be me, but hard core pro-lifers are on my list right next to PETA supporters in terms of general stupidity. I also never really got why abortion was such a bad thing either.
Same here.
Even if you consider a fetus a human at its earliest stages, it is really kinda redundant to grant it personhood.
The adult woman with a life of her own has any and all rights no matter what. I am not pro life, because it's like screaming into a pillow'. Pointless. Putting emphasis on a fetus is like refusing to eat eggs cuz they MIGHT have been baby chicks if fertilized. e___e
I don't think twice about aborting fetuses, especially for some women who have to choose between death and giving birth.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 12, 2012, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on January 12, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
It may just be me, but hard core pro-lifers are on my list right next to PETA supporters in terms of general stupidity. I also never really got why abortion was such a bad thing either.
Same here.
Even if you consider a fetus a human at its earliest stages, it is really kinda redundant to grant it personhood.
The adult woman with a life of her own has any and all rights no matter what. I am not pro life, because it's like screaming into a pillow'. Pointless. Putting emphasis on a fetus is like refusing to eat eggs cuz they MIGHT have been baby chicks if fertilized. e___e
I don't think twice about aborting fetuses, especially for some women who have to choose between death and giving birth.
I fully agree with you. I hate it when people say that an unborn fetus has more rights than an adult.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on January 12, 2012, 07:03:48 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 12, 2012, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on January 12, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
It may just be me, but hard core pro-lifers are on my list right next to PETA supporters in terms of general stupidity. I also never really got why abortion was such a bad thing either.
Same here.
Even if you consider a fetus a human at its earliest stages, it is really kinda redundant to grant it personhood.
The adult woman with a life of her own has any and all rights no matter what. I am not pro life, because it's like screaming into a pillow'. Pointless. Putting emphasis on a fetus is like refusing to eat eggs cuz they MIGHT have been baby chicks if fertilized. e___e
I don't think twice about aborting fetuses, especially for some women who have to choose between death and giving birth.
I fully agree with you. I hate it when people say that an unborn fetus has more rights than an adult.
Yes. It really pisses me off. Fanatics.
I just feel really bad for ANYONE who has to go through an abortion. It's scary enough without someone saying you're a murderer.
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 06:30:46 PM
"Abortion Causes Breast Cancer."
Apparently they aren't keeping up to date with current research that conclusively disproves this mid-century theory. Not that keeping up with research would help -- what's that saying, "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts."
The wife and I are having difficulties conceiving, so we are looking into adoption. From a selfish perspective, I'd rather see fewer women getting abortions and more giving up for adoption. However, I'm not willing to force that on them because of course it's not an easy choice to make for many, and I also don't want to cause psychological problems to a woman who had a baby and gave it up rather than getting the abortion.
Aside from whatever side a person is on with this abortion issue... the fact that this is going on television bothers me. I'd rather see Madonna get naked and hump a bedpost. I don't think that sort of thing keeps women in the situation from having an abortion, nor do I think it really makes a big difference in people's minds who are already pro choice. I just think it gives pro-lifers something to rally behind and pat themselves on the back for.
We all know pro-life people love to smell eachother's farts.
Also, there are plently of kids in need of homes. The problem is, people want newborns and not 6year olds. That's really sad. I'd rather see less kids in the adoption cycle.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 12, 2012, 11:27:44 PM
We all know pro-life people love to smell eachother's farts.
Also, there are plently of kids in need of homes. The problem is, people want newborns and not 6year olds. That's really sad. I'd rather see less kids in the adoption cycle.
In fairness, if you look at adoption sites, many adoptable older children have some sort of special needs. I am NOT saying that these kids don't deserve loving homes because of course they do, but I do think it's understandable to have someone look at that and be unsure if they are up to that challenge. I have been looking at the adoption sites off and on for the past year, and I really *want* to be the person that can provide all of the love and care and everything that some of these kids need. They break my heart, looking at them and knowing how much they need someone to adopt them and love them, and I am totally in awe of the people that do. But then I look at my situation, and I just don't know how we would make it work. Would it be fair to my husband and my kid to take on something like that that would most likely take up so much of my energy and time and emotional reserves? Would we survive it with our marriage intact? And am I even the kind of person that could devote myself so unselfishly?
And I know that health is not guaranteed with any child. If I ever manage to have another child, that child could have a lot of special needs too. But I guess I feel like it's one thing to have it just happen, and another thing to choose it willingly. It's really daunting.
All that isn't a reason why women shouldn't get abortions - it's just that I used to think the same thing - if people want a child so bad, why don't they adopt one of the thousands of children who need a home right now. Having now actually looked at it and tried to think about it realistically, I understand why it's not that simple.
Honestly, when it comes to taking on the responsibility for another living creature, you should really be honest with yourself about your emotional/physical/financial limitations. You should take on what you can take on, not what you wish you could take on. I don't think I'd ever judge another person for any of their decisions when it comes to bringing a child into their life. Heck, I see a lot of people who adopt dogs who don't know what they're getting into and can't handle it after the fact. Being honest with yourself doesn't make you a bad person.
Don't fret, Ali. No situation is simple, and anything can happen. ^___^ That's why there needs to be more understanding in the world and less judging.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 13, 2012, 01:37:04 AM
That's why there needs to be more understanding in the world and less judging.
True that. ;)
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PMAnd I think that if you are going to start trying to tell a woman what she should do in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, then you'd better be ready to put your money where your mouth is and support programs that help women and children such as universal healthcare.
Yes that above, care for the living.
There are people I quite like who have decided that they don't want to have children. Not because they are selfish, they see the world and they see it as not a fit place to bring a new life into. I can understand their viewpoint. Pro lifers and other types trying to impose their sick morality on others, it's one of societies major flaws I think.
Abortion is a complicated, uncomfortable issue, for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, that also makes it subject to over-simplification by people who can't think beyond a simple black/white assumption. I'm very much pro-choice, but it's not like I celebrate every time someone has an abortion. It's a terrible, invasive decision to have to make. And yes, it does not look pretty.
But I wonder why that festus's mother had to abort. Maybe she would have died otherwise. Maybe she was raped. Maybe she couldn't support another child without hurting the rest of her family. Maybe it's none of those. Point is, a picture like that does not tell the full story, but a lot of people don't think that critically. They instead see an ugly picture and immediately make assumptions.
I'm not sure what effect this will have besides a possible revision of those campaign laws
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on January 13, 2012, 02:16:57 AM
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PMAnd I think that if you are going to start trying to tell a woman what she should do in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, then you'd better be ready to put your money where your mouth is and support programs that help women and children such as universal healthcare.
Yes that above, care for the living.
There are people I quite like who have decided that they don't want to have children. Not because they are selfish, they see the world and they see it as not a fit place to bring a new life into. I can understand their viewpoint. Pro lifers and other types trying to impose their sick morality on others, it's one of societies major flaws I think.
I decided never to have children at age 12. It is a huge, forever responsibility. And yes, I agree this world is very unfit.
People who celebrate unfit parents having kids urk me....
Not everyone should reproduce because they CAN.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 13, 2012, 03:09:45 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on January 13, 2012, 02:16:57 AM
Quote from: Ali on January 12, 2012, 05:14:09 PMAnd I think that if you are going to start trying to tell a woman what she should do in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, then you'd better be ready to put your money where your mouth is and support programs that help women and children such as universal healthcare.
Yes that above, care for the living.
There are people I quite like who have decided that they don't want to have children. Not because they are selfish, they see the world and they see it as not a fit place to bring a new life into. I can understand their viewpoint. Pro lifers and other types trying to impose their sick morality on others, it's one of societies major flaws I think.
I decided never to have children at age 12. It is a huge, forever responsibility. And yes, I agree this world is very unfit.
People who celebrate unfit parents having kids urk me....
Not everyone should reproduce because they CAN.
That's a good thing. Most 12 year olds have a difficult time being parents.
LOL XD fester <3
I meant I was very dead set on being happy in my life without children. I knew it wasn't for me at a very young age.
I think you become a personal when you get a SSN, take first breath. Showing such graphic images is an obvious attack that will not phase most adults who have already established their stance and belief on the issues but may shock many teens and especially young kids. My 10 yr old brother is gonna watch the Super Bowl! I havent even had the sex talk with him, and I def dont wanna explain an abortion or why someone would have them. I think it is like showing cows being brutally butchered and then showing a hamburger....but much worse. I think it should be prevented but he has the law on his side. I think the US should have laws like Canada against slanderous talk on the air...Not familiar with the exactlaws but they can't lie on News Braodcast and they cant debase someone or something like this...I think...correct me if I am wrong. I'm from the US and am only repeating what I've been told
Quote from: m.condon on January 18, 2012, 01:42:36 AM
I think the US should have laws like Canada against slanderous talk on the air...Not familiar with the exactlaws but they can't lie on News Braodcast and they cant debase someone or something like this...I think...correct me if I am wrong. I'm from the US and am only repeating what I've been told
There are libel/defamation laws in most other countries, which is what I assume you mean. The US in unique in that sense. As an American too, I don't know that I agree with you, and I'm not sure it would really apply in this case anyway. No one's really being libeled against here; they're just using extreme imagery to convey a political opinion. Disgusting and inappropriate? Yes. An argument can be made that the network should have the right to not run such an ad, since the person here is using a campaign loophole to force them to do so. However, once you start going down the road of calling something libelous or slanderous because it doesn't agree with your point of view, where do you draw the line?
The Westboro Baptist Church protests at funerals (where they hold up the signs saying "God Hates F**gs") were upheld by the Supreme Court as free speech and are a perfect example. It's disgusting and horrible what they say, but they have the right to say it. And as much as I despise them and their message, I have to agree with that.
Quote from: Firebird on January 18, 2012, 03:41:38 AM
Quote from: m.condon on January 18, 2012, 01:42:36 AM
I think the US should have laws like Canada against slanderous talk on the air...Not familiar with the exactlaws but they can't lie on News Braodcast and they cant debase someone or something like this...I think...correct me if I am wrong. I'm from the US and am only repeating what I've been told
There are libel/defamation laws in most other countries, which is what I assume you mean. The US in unique in that sense. As an American too, I don't know that I agree with you, and I'm not sure it would really apply in this case anyway. No one's really being libeled against here; they're just using extreme imagery to convey a political opinion. Disgusting and inappropriate? Yes. An argument can be made that the network should have the right to not run such an ad, since the person here is using a campaign loophole to force them to do so. However, once you start going down the road of calling something libelous or slanderous because it doesn't agree with your point of view, where do you draw the line?
The Westboro Baptist Church protests at funerals (where they hold up the signs saying "God Hates F**gs") were upheld by the Supreme Court as free speech and are a perfect example. It's disgusting and horrible what they say, but they have the right to say it. And as much as I despise them and their message, I have to agree with that.
Yes, I agree with this. What's that old quote "I hate what you have to say but I will fight to death for your right to say it." Something like that? It sucks that sometimes freedom of speech leads to such ugly results, but I guess that I would rather that the law allow us to express unpopular opinions.
Mifegyne is a progesterone analogue (called mifepristone) and causes a very well managed medical abortion after week 3 of conception (when the next day pill does not work) and before the 10th week of term. Normal invasive abortion cannot occur before 12 weeks of term.
This drug is a gynecologist's Blessing
we beautifully aborted the 4th "soul" that chose to join us at week 6, and did not have to go through the body changes as the fetus establishes itself to be fit for surgery-like procedure with anesthesia.
Also instead of the natural psychological depression after the sudden cut-off at an advanced 3 month stage, the feeling was that of relief (after a month ) with a heavy type of flow in a normal period cycle. Actually the sooner the better.
we were not raped and there was no medical reason and we could afford to raise it if we had to. Do you ask for reasons to go for a haircut? A living independent body part is also a tumor, they possibly also have "a right" to exist?
The key word is body PART. whose body? The Woman's. Who the fuck is anyone else to say anything about it?
Unfortunately mifegyne is restricted and hard to get, I suspect profit "rights". a surgery gives work to many more people and many more drugs than just 3 pills and away! They should retail around 70 dollars for the standard 3.
the guy with the advert must be a crown moron, his public appeal is the important and frightening bit
Quote from: Ali on January 11, 2012, 11:34:02 PM
Do you think it's appropriate or a smart political move to show graphic pictures of aborted fetuses during the Super Bowl?
It probably won't go well with the cheese dip & salsa I'll be eating.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 24, 2012, 05:31:30 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 11, 2012, 11:34:02 PM
Do you think it's appropriate or a smart political move to show graphic pictures of aborted fetuses during the Super Bowl?
It probably won't go well with the cheese dip & salsa I'll be eating.
That's only because you're a theist! Pass the roasted fetuse somebody ;)
Abortions are a touchy subject for me. Because of some medical issues, I cannot do the whole birthing thing. I'd die, and maybe take the baby with me. So for these groups to tell me 'if you get raped, oh well. should have thought of your life before' is infuriating.
I don't want kids and never have, so it's cool. I just have to make sure I'm on top of my birth controls.
So this kind of crap makes me want to punch him, and his followers, in the throat. Who the fuck are they?! Kids watch the Superbowl.
Pytheas, maybe it's because you're in a different country than I am, but I had no trouble getting my hands on either Cytotec which causes abortion (NOT the next day after pill - I was 8 weeks along), or a D&C at 8 weeks. Of course, I don't know if it makes a difference that my "tumors" were already dead at the time, but I don't see why it should since abortion is legal in the US.
Quote from: Ali on January 24, 2012, 08:26:58 PM
Pytheas, maybe it's because you're in a different country than I am, but I had no trouble getting my hands on either Cytotec which causes abortion (NOT the next day after pill - I was 8 weeks along), or a D&C at 8 weeks.
Cytotek, a prostaglandin agonist, is easy to get, 10 euro. Got it but did not chose to use it alone because it is not as efficient as mifegyne. cytotek causes violent uterine contractions and more severe bleeding, direct activity on the muscle. The forming platform for the fetus is hoped to rip but the chemistry that grew the platform /fetus carries on in the background. At 8 weeks the success rate with cytotek alone is 60-80 % compared to 99% with mifegyne.
Mifegyne blocks progesterone, the chemistry the platform /fetus depends on. That demolishes atrophises the platform and after 2 -3 days causes actual abortion with bloody shedding and some endogenous prostaglandin activity. We supplemented it with Cytotek to remove all the additional material. I got the last mifegyne box in the country because I could, but had tried prior to get it sent from friends in holland, austria and germany. Only used by gynecologists locally was the answer everywhere. what is a D&C? if you are refering to a doctor-operating invasive technique, its another level as I am refering minimal doctor interference, a first ultrasound to see you are not ectopic(life threatening) and to detect the embryonic sac, and a second ultrasound to confirm the sac has gone. in the end noone needs to grate and hoover your insides
Quote from: pytheas on January 24, 2012, 09:03:10 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 24, 2012, 08:26:58 PM
Pytheas, maybe it's because you're in a different country than I am, but I had no trouble getting my hands on either Cytotec which causes abortion (NOT the next day after pill - I was 8 weeks along), or a D&C at 8 weeks.
Cytotek, a prostaglandin agonist, is easy to get, 10 euro. Got it but did not chose to use it alone because it is not as efficient as mifegyne. cytotek causes violent uterine contractions and more severe bleeding, direct activity on the muscle. The forming platform for the fetus is hoped to rip but the chemistry that grew the platform /fetus carries on in the background. At 8 weeks the success rate with cytotek alone is 60-80 % compared to 99% with mifegyne.
Mifegyne blocks progesterone, the chemistry the platform /fetus depends on. That demolishes atrophises the platform and after 2 -3 days causes actual abortion with bloody shedding and some endogenous prostaglandin activity. We supplemented it with Cytotek to remove all the additional material. I got the last mifegyne box in the country because I could, but had tried prior to get it sent from friends in holland, austria and germany. Only used by gynecologists locally was the answer everywhere. what is a D&C? if you are refering to a doctor-operating invasive technique, its another level as I am refering minimal doctor interference, a first ultrasound to see you are not ectopic(life threatening) and to detect the embryonic sac, and a second ultrasound to confirm the sac has gone. in the end noone needs to grate and hoover your insides
Yes, a D&C is the the grate and hoover method that we use when the Cytotec has caused excessive bleeding and pain, but has failed to dislodge everything.