Happy Atheist Forum

We've had some very interesting and perhaps spirited discussions recently, and I wanted to just clarify something so that we're all on the same page.

The first rule here on the Happy Atheist Forum is about civility.

QuoteCIVILITY: To maintain a happy and productive forum atmosphere, members are to remember the importance of civility by striving to comply with the forums conduct guidelines.

Civility on a forum like this one has to do with our social contract, particularly the practical application of the golden rule. We have people  with a wide variety of world views coming together in one place to have open discussions, so there's bound to be friction now and again, but at the end of the day people like to be treated with a base level of respect. All people. As a hypothetical example, if you're not okay with someone making a blanket statement about your beliefs being bullshit, it follows that you calling someone else's beliefs bullshit would be an instance of dishing what one can't take.

A problem that can arise from this is when people have a different threshold, but we deal with this every day in real life. Use the same judgement.

I want you to have fun and feel free to have spirited discussions about any number of topics, but remember in discussion that this is a community and civility serves the whole as well as individuals.

Thanks!

Aye aye, Captain.
 

if you're not okay with someone making a blanket statement about your beliefs being bullshit, it follows that you calling someone else's beliefs bullshit would be an instance of dishing what one can't take

Even if you ARE ok with blanketing, using it on others can be seen as... Provocative.

Will, I want to try to respectfully point out that this post is extremely vague.  I think it would be handy to note which spirited conversations you might be referring to.  I am wondering because I tend to allow myself some leeway for humor value, don't really know if others value it or not, just trying to make someone laugh really...If I'm the offender, I am requesting that you and any hurt parties just let me know directly.

As an Atheist, my personal weapon against religion is to satirize, exaggerate and poke fun at it, because enough contrary evidence has already been given ad naseum. Either we accept that this evidence is real, or all bets are off and any one person's imagination is just as good as any others.

Quote from: "LARA"Will, I want to try to respectfully point out that this post is extremely vague.  I think it would be handy to note which spirited conversations you might be referring to.  I am wondering because I tend to allow myself some leeway for humor value, don't really know if others value it or not, just trying to make someone laugh really...If I'm the offender, I am requesting that you and any hurt parties just let me know directly.

As an Atheist, my personal weapon against religion is to satirize, exaggerate and poke fun at it, because enough contrary evidence has already been given ad naseum. Either we accept that this evidence is real, or all bets are off and any one person's imagination is just as good as any others.

I think you're probably being paranoid, and I liked the Thai Buddhist thread.
I think the civility thing came up because of this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573), and possibly the Asmodean thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851)
And there was the farewell thread for Existentialist.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I think the civility thing came up because of this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573), and possibly the Asmodean thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851)
And there was the farewell thread for Existentialist.

Yeah... Pin all the evils on HAF on poor little Asmodean..!  :idea:

Oh! Right... Carry on  

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I think the civility thing came up because of this thread viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6813&p=103573#p103573), and possibly the Asmodean thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6851)
And there was the farewell thread for Existentialist.

Yeah... Pin all the evils on HAF on poor little Asmodean..!  :idea:

Oh! Right... Carry on  

I think you're missing a "bya ha ha ha," perhaps you could practice it for next time..

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I think you're missing a "bya ha ha ha," perhaps you could practice it for next time..

Hmm...  :hmm:

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I think you're missing a "bya ha ha ha," perhaps you could practice it for next time..

Hmm...  :hmm:

A combination of those, possibly accompanied by an angle grinder scratch mix would be novel.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"A combination of those, possibly accompanied by an angle grinder scratch mix would be novel.

:idea:

MWIIIHIHIHIHIHAHOOOO..?

Quote from: "LARA"Will, I want to try to respectfully point out that this post is extremely vague.  I think it would be handy to note which spirited conversations you might be referring to.  I am wondering because I tend to allow myself some leeway for humor value, don't really know if others value it or not, just trying to make someone laugh really...If I'm the offender, I am requesting that you and any hurt parties just let me know directly.

As an Atheist, my personal weapon against religion is to satirize, exaggerate and poke fun at it, because enough contrary evidence has already been given ad naseum. Either we accept that this evidence is real, or all bets are off and any one person's imagination is just as good as any others.

You were not in any way the inspiration for my post. What I'm saying is vague because for the vast, vast majority of HAF users, I trust your judgement. This is just a reminder to remember to use your good judgment. If you honestly think a post is civil, odds are you're right.

Will wrote:

QuoteYou were not in any way the inspiration for my post. What I'm saying is vague because for the vast, vast majority of HAF users, I trust your judgement.

Thanks for the clarification Will.    Seems I need to adjust my sensitivity a bit here.  Wish it had a handy dial or something.

I've been away for a while. Did i miss something other than the obligatory markuze nonsense?

Remember, being civil does not mean relinquishing your sense of humor.  

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages50.fotki.com%2Fv1557%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2F1240195696589-vi.gif&hash=67cf9107fbfb4efbb6761cbaa9c3ccd758a5179d)

Being civil just means putting your point across without resorting to calling someone a naughty word, right?  ;)

Quote from: Alchemidas on May 06, 2011, 05:13:57 PM
Being civil just means putting your point across without resorting to calling someone a naughty word, right?  ;)

No. It's a lot more difficult than that.

Well, I probably will be in the clear once the rest of the forum opens up at my 50th post. The only forum I've ever had a problem not violating their TOS is gamefaqs, and that's purely because they have a no cursing policy. Sometimes ***** just doesn't have the effect I want to convey.

That's russian.

I have a genuine question here about civility. Only because it's been used quite alot on these forums. I mean the word and saying someone doesn't have it etc.

I understand the need for civility. In fact it's way better then having some horrid free for all troll fest. I would like to know the opinions about having an opposing opinion and being able to also express that. I disagree with some of the points of view being expressed from time to time. And I'd like to be able to express that disagreement. Not with foul language or being a complete ass. But by being direct and short and to the damn point. I just wanted to get your take on that. Are you able to disagree and not be long winded and be direct and not have someone throw the 'civil' word at you in the process?

Quote from: Medusa on July 26, 2011, 07:55:58 PM
I have a genuine question here about civility. Only because it's been used quite alot on these forums. I mean the word and saying someone doesn't have it etc.

I understand the need for civility. In fact it's way better then having some horrid free for all troll fest. I would like to know the opinions about having an opposing opinion and being able to also express that. I disagree with some of the points of view being expressed from time to time. And I'd like to be able to express that disagreement. Not with foul language or being a complete ass. But by being direct and short and to the damn point. I just wanted to get your take on that. Are you able to disagree and not be long winded and be direct and not have someone throw the 'civil' word at you in the process?

Imagine you are in a formal environment where taking personal digs and pot shots at people is just not done. You can disagree with anything and nobodies going to jump on you just for disagreing unless you put an emotional spin on it that could be seen as pointlessly provocative and just added to shit disturb. Brevity isn't a problem. Asking questions for clarification is often a good way to get your point across withput appearing aggressive or uncivil. The fact that you have made this post also shows that your intent is to be civil, thus if something comes over as a problem people will just point it out. Hope that helps :D

Thanks Tank. It does. I don't necessarily agree with it all per say. I am not one to be non direct or passive in my speech structure. But every forum has a way of conversing. I am on two different Satanism forums. One is completely laid back while the other throws the phrase 'off topic' almost every other posts. It's very 1984 if you ask me and quite frigging boring.

Anywho. I'll try it your way as to get along with others before I go disagreeing.  :D

i'm really glad that you said something about this. (:

kk. Can do.

Try to be civil, aleniaSkalo.

Thanks Tank for keeping a running score of postings I have left before I'm liberated. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but, according to your last two summaries, I have 10 (ten) postings left. Right? I also have to remember to limit my rants and save ammunition to get to the big one zero, when I will be "Turned Loose".

You should show everyone civility, but what anyone says or thinks, publicly, must stand on it's own. Shoot the message full of holes, that will wound the messenger.

Civility, respect, political correctness .......... shields that religious lunatics hide behind while not showing civility, respect, political correctness or sanity, to the rest of the world. It is generally accepted that religious freedom gives everyone the right to say what they "believe", make a clip about what they "believe",  put it on YouTube, and do so with impunity. I call bullsh*t.

What other field of knowledge allows this?  Mathematics, any of the sciences? No, you have to immediately prove what you say is true or show reproducible experiments that verify your statements. If you don't, the responses will be devastating and immediate, you will be classified as untouchable. Publishing will be close to impossible for you and your career will go no further.

This serves as a bench mark for new scientific ideas and could be a wake up call for half baked ideas. This is an advantage to all professional and lay people and it's an advantage that should be extended to television evangelists, internet evangelists, door to door preachers as well as any and all forms of "missionary" work.

Am I wrong or is missionary work always unsolicited?  Why?

Unn, how many is that now Tank?

Ateo...read over the forum rules...while we required civility our "no preaching" rule also requires that people support their claims with evidence (as not doing so is simply preaching a point of view).

Or perhaps you already know that and I just don't understand the context of your post.

Ateo, 5 more to go  ;D

The issue here is really about keeping discussions from degenerating into flame wars. Without a 'civility' clause then the forum turns into a slanging match and the atmosphere degenerates and the forum dies. Particularly as the ethos of this particular forum is that people (irrespective of world view) should at least be able to get along. That's what makes this unique in my experience.

One can say " I think your idea is stupid." Although it's a rather pointless statement in itself, one should really lay out why an idea is 'stupid' rather that simply assert it. However saying "You are stupid." is simply unacceptable as it is a personal attack.

Does that help?

Wow ... I see your point ... if I wasn't preaching a point of view, it an excellent imitation.

My apologies, I will try to keep my enthusiastic nature under more control. I must confess my weakness, I enjoyed writing it and enjoyed even more see it in print. I feel terrible about pushing the edges of the rules and hope that this will not stifle the barrage of replies I was hoping to get.

I can't really get into hard debates for another nine postings (Tank, does this make it eight) at which time I get a broader range of topics, not forgetting of course, not to preach. I have taken what you said to heart, although I'm not sure I understand how you can rant, show extreme enthusiasm, or tell someone their thinking is screwed, without sounding a little bit like your preaching. Hopefully, you will pick up on my few small deviations from civility and bring them to my attention.

I'm certain I'll never be a "roll model" but with supervision, I'll strive to become tolerable, you see I like it here and I like the attitude of the people.

Yours in Disbelief

Ateo

Quote from: Ateo on January 07, 2012, 05:16:27 PM
Wow ... I see your point ... if that's not preaching a point of view, it an excellent imitation.

My apologies, I will try to keep my enthusiastic nature under more control. I must confess my weakness, I enjoyed writing it and enjoyed even more see it in print. I feel terrible about pushing the edges of the rules and hope that this will not stifle the barrage of replies I was hoping to get.

I can't really get into hard debates for another nine postings (Tank, does this make it 8) at which time I get a broader range of topics, not forgetting of course, not to preach. I have taken what you said to heart, although I'm not sure I understand how you can rant, show extreme enthusiasm, or tell someone their thinking is screwed, without sounding a little bit like your preaching. Hopefully, you will pick up on my few small deviations from civility and bring them to my attention.

I'm certain I'll never be a "roll model" but with supervision, I'll strive to become tolerable, you see I like it here and I like the attitude of the people.

Yours in Disbelief

Ateo

4 to go  :)

I think you'll be fine here. Just don't rant AT other members. It's perfectly ok to rant ABOUT what you don't like.

Quote from: Tank on January 07, 2012, 05:19:41 PM
I think you'll be fine here. Just don't rant AT other members. It's perfectly ok to rant ABOUT what you don't like.

Or, take classes from The Asmo, hide one inside the other and don't let the ever-present Tank spot you  :P

Quote from: Ateo on January 07, 2012, 12:27:48 PM
You should show everyone civility, but what anyone says or thinks, publicly, must stand on it's own. Shoot the message full of holes, that will wound the messenger.

Civility, respect, political correctness .......... shields that religious lunatics hide behind while not showing civility, respect, political correctness or sanity, to the rest of the world. It is generally accepted that religious freedom gives everyone the right to say what they "believe", make a clip about what they "believe",  put it on YouTube, and do so with impunity. I call bullsh*t.

What other field of knowledge allows this?  Mathematics, any of the sciences? No, you have to immediately prove what you say is true or show reproducible experiments that verify your statements. If you don't, the responses will be devastating and immediate, you will be classified as untouchable. Publishing will be close to impossible for you and your career will go no further.

This serves as a bench mark for new scientific ideas and could be a wake up call for half baked ideas. This is an advantage to all professional and lay people and it's an advantage that should be extended to television evangelists, internet evangelists, door to door preachers as well as any and all forms of "missionary" work.

Am I wrong or is missionary work always unsolicited?  Why?

I have a feeling that I'm gonna like you. :)

everybody should have the right to express their views.every body should e able to respect others views bcoz that's what makes it so interesting

Absolutely.  Whats the fun in talking with a bunch of folk who agree with you?  Even my dog doesn't agree with me. 

Quote from: technolud on May 08, 2012, 11:23:21 PM
Absolutely.  Whats the fun in talking with a bunch of folk who agree with you?  Even my dog doesn't agree with me. 

He presumably tbinks you are barking up the wrong tree.

Have some of us (I include myself) been a bit quick to cry troll lately?
I don't think we need to feel gullible if one slips by.
It's understandable people don't want to waste time answering disingenuous questions but vigilance has a cost.
Should we keep our suspicions to ourselves a bit longer rather than suggesting someone may be a troll?

Quote from: Medusa on July 22, 2011, 08:19:31 PM
Jesus. You are weary and leery of new poeple.

Sometimes we probably are.  At times I share the suspicion other times I think geez lighten up, we don't have to question the motivation of every question.  Trolls no doubt cause mods inconvenience but they don't trouble me much at all.

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 14, 2012, 06:53:40 AM
Have some of us (I include myself) been a bit quick to cry troll lately?
I don't think we need to feel gullible if one slips by.
It's understandable people don't want to waste time answering disingenuous questions but vigilance has a cost.
Should we keep our suspicions to ourselves a bit longer rather than suggesting someone may be a troll?

Quote from: Medusa on July 22, 2011, 08:19:31 PM
Jesus. You are weary and leery of new poeple.

Sometimes we probably are.  At times I share the suspicion other times I think geez lighten up, we don't have to question the motivation of every question.  Trolls no doubt cause mods inconvenience but they don't trouble me much at all.

I agree with this. Essentially if a member suspect a troll they should report the posts of the suspected troll. Branding a member a troll in public is uncivil.

Yes I made that mistake already. I apologized though.

I may have done that today. But it was more of a warning not to go any further rather than an accusation. I think.

Quote from: Firebird on May 15, 2012, 03:21:48 AM
I may have done that today. But it was more of a warning not to go any further rather than an accusation. I think.

I read your post and I think it was completely appropriate. No problem with it. Also, by questioning yourself on it you've demonstrated that you have the conscience to self-check. A good trait to possess.

Thank you McQ, I really appreciate that.

Civility is one of the reasons that I landed at the HAF site. You appear to be running a tight ship. I like that.

To be clear, it should be noted that I am entirely capable of being a mean SOB but I find that trait to be very rarely appropriate or necessary.  I believe that it was Jimmy Carter who is credited with the wisdom; "We can disagree without being disagreeable".

Quote from: Icarus on July 02, 2012, 11:56:40 PM
I believe that it was Jimmy Carter who is credited with the wisdom; "We can disagree without being disagreeable".

I don't know about "wisdom"... Looks like an observation of the more regular variety, that.

It is difficult to keep a civil tongue (or keyboard) when someone's being willfully ignorant or purposefully obtuse, but it can be done.  The alternative is we just shout insults at each other which gets very boring very quickly in my experience.

Quote from: Non Quixote on July 18, 2012, 03:26:46 PM
It is difficult to keep a civil tongue (or keyboard) when someone's being willfully ignorant or purposefully obtuse, but it can be done.  The alternative is we just shout insults at each other which gets very boring very quickly in my experience.

Unless the insults are creative.  Creative insults are hilarious.  Oooh, I think that would make a fun thread.

Quote from: Non Quixote on July 18, 2012, 03:26:46 PM
It is difficult to keep a civil tongue (or keyboard) when someone's being willfully ignorant or purposefully obtuse, but it can be done.  The alternative is we just shout insults at each other which gets very boring very quickly in my experience.

It also gets you banned!  :D

Quote from: Tank on July 18, 2012, 06:43:34 PM
It also gets you banned!  :D

Yeah, there is that. ;D