Happy Atheist Forum

I was into dance in the late 70s, early 80s and I didn't mind very early rap where it felt like more of a lark but I grew to hate it as it became increasingly misogynistic and every [expletive deleted] song had an obligatory rap section in it. It was basically the music industry's obsession with rap that turned me away from dance and made me look for something different which is how I ended up being into what I call nuMetal (bands like Bullet for my Valentine, Linkin Park, Evanescence, Spineshank, Godsmack. Atreyu, Avenged Sevenfold, Halestorm, The Prety Reckless and more)

So no, I don't like rap but I think I'm gonna have to make an exception for this guy.



Keke

I don't think you are the only one ever to call those particular bands' music "Nu Metal"  :P

That said, I like some beats and lyrics of "classic" rap music. There is a song or two by Eminem (Sing for the Moment, for instance) and some "alternative" rap, like Twenty One Pilots, the abovementioned Linkin Park and Rage Against the Machine, just to name a few.

"Bitches and guns" rap, however, I generally dislike whatever the skill of the performer.

The song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.

Quote from: Asmodean on September 26, 2016, 04:38:16 PMThe song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.

Fair enough ... I just thought it was good that somone did intelligent rap. Obviously I'm aware that can't be a first. Had to look up "arpeggiator".

Keke

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 26, 2016, 08:48:10 PM

Quote from: Asmodean on September 26, 2016, 04:38:16 PMThe song you linked to... It's not bad, but even being what it is, the arpeggiator lacks imagination.

Fair enough ... I just thought it was good that somone did intelligent rap. Obviously I'm aware that can't be a first. Had to look up "arpeggiator".

Keke

Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

It's like any other genre - the stuff that makes it to mainstream radio is 95% complete shit.

There is some fantastic rap out there, both "old school" and current.

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 26, 2016, 08:48:10 PM
Had to look up "arpeggiator"

Keyboardist speak, that. It's a circuit (Or a software feature) on a synthesizer/keyboard that allows you to repeat a certain pattern of chords with octave alteration and the like. Basically, it makes the tune play itself and allows the DJ/sampler/keyboardist to concentrate on modulating it. In lazier cases, they don't really bother. There are songs out there which can be played by holding down two or three synthesizer keys pretty much for the duration, given some minor pre-programming effort.

This repeater-like use of arpeggiators is not necessarilly particularly common in rap music, but quite often, there is little else going on there apart from the vocals. That makes unimaginative arpeggios that much more noticable.

As far as taste in music goes, mine is wildly eclectic. Generally, I appreciate talent. It doesn't even have to be musical talent as such, as it can often be substituted with certain skills in computer technology. Basically, to ruin a song for me, it needs to either have a completely horrible set of shallow teenager-y "these problems matter" lyrics, a melody which an orangutan could concievably learn to play or both. Then again, there are exceptions to these exceptions, but do let us not dwell.

...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.

OK on the "arpeggiator"

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PMAs far as taste in music goes, mine is wildly eclectic. Generally, I appreciate talent. It doesn't even have to be musical talent as such, as it can often be substituted with certain skills in computer technology. Basically, to ruin a song for me, it needs to either have a completely horrible set of shallow teenager-y "these problems matter" lyrics, a melody which an orangutan could concievably learn to play or both. Then again, there are exceptions to these exceptions, but do let us not dwell.

Meh! Eclectic musical tastes is just one of those things IMO ... a BBC news presenter called Andrew Marr has what is described as an eclectic taste in music, for the most part I just think his taste in music is just weird (I'm not a fan). I think "eclectic" is just one of those words people use to say their taste is different (implicitly better) than <whoever>, I prefer to describe my musical taste as "catholic" (small "c") which I think is more descriptive even though, these days, it's probably wrong. I'd like to think I appreciate good music too but I also believe that "talent" is objectively non-assessable, when applied to art forms, an entirely subjective concept. As I think I said to "No One", if that wasn't true then it should be possible to derive a formula that would indicate what is or is not good in that art, music in this case. Most of the music I like seems to change my feelings/emotions for example I love both the romance of slow soul and the aggression of screamo nuMetal ... I'm probably wrong :)

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PM...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.

Now that you're gonna have to explain since I have no idea what you mean.

Keke

I like rap.

Quote from: Kekerusey on September 27, 2016, 04:10:01 PM
I think "eclectic" is just one of those words people use to say their taste is different (implicitly better) than <whoever>

Implies no particular source preference.

Quote
I appreciate good music too but I also believe that "talent" is objectively non-assessable, when applied to art forms, an entirely subjective concept.

Certainly. I define it as a person having a good, to a less-than-common-degree, ability to perform a certain task, where "common" relates to the average among practitioners in that particular area.

Quote
Now that you're gonna have to explain since I have no idea what you mean.

There is a sub-genre or two of jazz where the brass sounds like, to quote GTA 5, "...someone strangling a clarinet player"

...I don't like it. It's way too... Cutting? Unrefined..? Overly-jangly..? I struggle to put the right words to it right now, so have a far-from-the-worst example, which is still pretty good at illustrating the point I'm trying to make;

(ca 7 minutes into it)

Quote from: Asmodean on September 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PM
...Also, the nails-in-your-head-saxophone-rape-variety of Jazz is just evil.

Yes, yes.... I know exactly what you mean. Those Jazzy saxophone players are a crime against humanity.

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals..

Icarus, may I borrow this? But I would like to use it under different circumstances. Next time I find myself amongst refined people, and someone makes a stupid comment, I would like to whisper in my friend's ear, "What he just said is nothing but noise made by a lesser mammal."

Use it at will Mags.  I think such an expression is not profound but perhaps moderately descriptive.......Well, in the musical realm that depends on ones tastes, actually..

Quote from: Icarus on October 01, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
Use it at will Mags.  I think such an expression is not profound but perhaps moderately descriptive.......Well, in the musical realm that depends on ones tastes, actually..

Moderately descriptive of what, exactly?
You said, "Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals..."
I understand your opinion, "Rap is not music." What I don't understand is what you mean exactly when you say, this ([music to me] noise to you) is made by "lesser mammals." What is a lesser mammal? I can't seem to associate the word with anything other than...(maybe) a terrorist...but you think a rapper is a lesser mammal? Why?

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

Maybe I should explain a little bit where I'm coming from.  :notsure:
Some people have been trying to get rid of "black" music by any means necessary, and for a very long time! Here's a brief history of it:
[Music Censorship – A Timeline (https://censorshipinamerica.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/music-censorship-a-timeline/)]

Quote1955

15,000 letters, mostly written by young adults, are sent to Chicago rock stations accusing them of playing "dirty" records. Radio station WABB runs editorials call "About The Music You won't Hear on WABB." The editorials promise that the station will censor itself of all controverisal music, especially rhythm and blues – in other words, "black" music.

1956

A banner year for censoring music from radio. ABC radio bans from all of its network affiliates Billie Holiday's song "Love For Sale" because of its prostitution theme.

1955

In one week's time during April, Chicago radio stations receive 15,000 complaint letters protesting their broadcast of rock music as part of an organized campaign. The letters call for the station to remove controversial songs from their play lists.

Variety runs a three-part series on what they term "lee-ics" or R&B sons, with obscene lyrics, calling for censorship for the recording industry. The articles compare these songs to dirty postcards and chastise the music industry for selling "their lee-ic garbage by declaring that's what kids want."

1958

The mutual Broadcasting System drops all rock and roll records from its network music programs, calling it "distorted, monotonous, noisy music."

1990

Members of the rap group N.W.A. receive a letter from the F.B.I saying that the agency did not appreciate the song "Fuck the Police." Law enforcement groups across the country agree.
....

The movie, Straight Outta Compton, which  depictis the career of gangsta rap group N.W.A., explains that in more detail:
(...and probably why things are the way they are right now...) :shifty:



The full song:


Vocabulary:

Rock music is a genre of popular music that originated as "rock and roll" in the United States in the 1950s, and developed into a range of different styles in the 1960s and later, particularly in the United Kingdom and the United States.[1][2] It has its roots in 1940s' and 1950s' rock and roll, itself heavily influenced by blues, rhythm and blues and country music. Rock music also drew strongly on a number of other genres such as electric blues and folk, and incorporated influences from jazz, classical and other musical sources.

Rhythm and blues, often abbreviated as R&B or RnB, is a genre of popular African-American music that originated in the 1940s.[1] The term was originally used by record companies to describe recordings marketed predominantly to urban African Americans, at a time when "urbane, rocking, jazz based music with a heavy, insistent beat" was becoming more popular.[2] In the commercial rhythm and blues music typical of the 1950s through the 1970s, the bands usually consisted of piano, one or two guitars, bass, drums, saxophone, and sometimes background vocalists. R&B lyrical themes often encapsulate the African-American experience of pain and the quest for freedom and joy.[3] Lyrics focus heavily on the themes of triumphs and failures in terms of relationships, freedom, economics, aspirations, and sex.

Rapping is also used in Kwaito music, a genre that originated in Johannesburg, South Africa, and is composed of hip-hop elements. Another form of rap that predates hip hop was Muhammad Ali's rhythmic poetry used to taunt his opponents in the 1960s and 1970s.
Rapping first gained popularity in the U.S. in the 1970s as a kind of street art, especially among African American teenagers.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 01, 2016, 07:24:59 AMSome people have been trying to get rid of "black" music by any means necessary, and for a very long time!

Just so you know, not me ... I may not like rap but when I say that I am referring primarily to mainstream rap which I see as, firstly, somewhat misogynistic and, secondly, abrasive (the way you can get a perfectly good song with a section of "jarring" rap in the middle). I used to absolutely love soul ... I started off with Motown/Stax, moved on through standard soul, and disco to funk and jazz funk. I was a soul boy, loud and proud and it was electronic (garage and similar) and the mainstream adoption of rap that made me cast around for something different. I loved "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" at the time and liked the show's music, that gave me a way in and that's how I found nuMetal. The one, for me, unfortunate thing for me is that the group I first got into, Lostprophets, turned out to fronted by a man imprisoned for paedophilia.

Anyway, I still like all the soul, funk, dance and jazz funk I used to and there is even some stuff that comes out today that I like (favourites include Beyonce's "Love on Top", DNCE's "Cake By The Ocean", "Pharrell William's, "Happy" and most of Timberlake's recent stuff) but it tends to be the exception rather than anything else these days and usually stuff that harks back to the late seventies.

BTW, no idea if it's in the US, but we (my wife and I) went to see "Motown The Musical" last weekend, entertaining but overpriced ... and no rap :)

Keke

^^
OK.

"That God damn (insert music by an African American here) got those pure white bread kids dancing like the devil"

And that was the story of Black Music in America.

^+1

Give me a mainstream music genre that is not misogynist.

Edit: I guess sexist is the more appropriate term, but that goes for rap too. Misogyny is specifically hate of women, which is not inherently implied in referring to women as females, bitches, hoes, etc as is commonplace in rap specifically. It's generally extremely degrading, yes, but so is One Direction singing about how they're super into girls with no self esteem and stop trying to steal her because she belongs to him.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 02, 2016, 06:32:00 PMGive me a mainstream music genre that is not misogynist.

Edit: I guess sexist is the more appropriate term, but that goes for rap too. Misogyny is specifically hate of women, which is not inherently implied in referring to women as females, bitches, hoes, etc as is commonplace in rap specifically. It's generally extremely degrading, yes, but so is One Direction singing about how they're super into girls with no self esteem and stop trying to steal her because she belongs to him.

I couldn't name a One Direction song if I tried but point taken to a degree ... I don't think all mainstream music is misogynistic but I accept there is more of it than one might imediately realise.

Keke

It certainly isn't all sexist, but neither is rap, which is my point as well. All too often I hear *insert ethnic minority* getting trashed for something that everyone does. Which makes it not actually about that thing, but about rationalizing hating on minorities.

Edit: I don't intend to accuse anyone of being a consciously racist jerk, but I do think there is a major racial bias involved with whole "I hate rap" thing. We've had at least 3 topics about it on HAF alone, and it's hardly limited to HAF. No one is running around creating "I hate country" or "I hate opera" or "I hate EDM" threads, even though people most certainly do. There's a reason for that.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 02, 2016, 06:32:00 PM
^+1

Give me a mainstream music genre that is not misogynist.

Edit: I guess sexist is the more appropriate term, but that goes for rap too. Misogyny is specifically hate of women, which is not inherently implied in referring to women as females, bitches, hoes, etc as is commonplace in rap specifically. It's generally extremely degrading, yes, but so is One Direction singing about how they're super into girls with no self esteem and stop trying to steal her because she belongs to him.

Yes, all that is everywhere, not just or mainly in the rap industry.

The other day I found this:

QuotePoll question: Which song has more archaically sexist lyrics?

Which song has more archaically sexist lyrics?

"Wonder Woman"

Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman.
All the world is waiting for you,
and the power you possess.

In your satin tights,
Fighting for your rights
And the old Red, White and Blue.


OR...

She's a Lady

Tom Jones

Well, she's all you'd ever want
She's the kind I like to flaunt and take to dinner
But she always knows her place
She's got style, she's got grace, she's a winner
She's a lady
Oh, whoa, whoa, she's a lady
Talkin' about that little lady
And the lady is mine

Well, she's never in the way
Always something nice to say, and what a blessin'
I can leave her on her own
Knowin' she's OK alone and there's no messin'
She's a lady
Oh, whoa, whoa, she's a lady
Talkin' about that little lady
And the lady is mine

Well, she never asks very much
And I don't refuse her
Always treat her with respect
I never would abuse her
What she's got is hard to find
And I don't want to lose her
Help me build a mountain
From a little pile of clay, hey hey hey

Well, she knows what I'm about
She can take what I dish out, and that's not easy
But she knows me through and through
And she knows just what to do and how to please me
She's a lady
Oh, whoa, whoa, she's a lady
Talkin' about that little lady
And the lady is mine
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's a lady
Oh, whoa, whoa, she's a lady
Talkin' about that little lady

Well...
I don't think I'm the kind they like to flaunt and take to dinner.  :notsure:
And I still don't know "my place."
I am always in the way, and don't always have something nice to say...

I guess I'm not a lady, but I am a woman and a winner...
Oh, whoa, whoa, I'm a winner...because I say so.

Talkin' about that little atheist
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's an atheist
Oh, whoa, whoa, she's an atheist
Talkin' about grandiose atheists...

:grin:

Oh my gosh, I could play this game all day, lol

Also, Tom Jones would not like me much, and I'm quite happy with that.

Tupac

Quote
Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice
I say the darker the flesh then the deeper they roots
I give a holler to my sisters on welfare
Tupac cares, if don't nobody else care

And uhh, I know they like to beat ya down a lot
When you come around the block brothas clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry your eyes, never let up
Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nothin' don't believe him
And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him
Cause sista you don't need him

And I ain't tryin to gash up, I just call em how I see em
You know it makes me unhappy
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?

I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but you gotta keep your head up

Keep ya head up, oooo child things are gonna get easier
Ooooo child things are gonna get brighter

Nick Jonas

Quote
I don't like the way he's looking at you
I'm starting to think you want him too
Am I crazy? Have I lost ya?
Even though I know you love me, can't help it

I turn my chin music up
And I'm puffing my chest
I'm getting red in the face
You can call me obsessed
It's not your fault that they hover
I mean no disrespect
It's my right to be hellish
I still get jealous

'Cause you're too sexy, beautiful
And everybody wants a taste
That's why (that's why)
I still get jealous

I wish you didn't have to post it out
I wish you'd save a little bit just for me
Protective or possessive, yeah
Call it passive or aggressive

You're the only one invited
I said there's no one else for you
'Cause you know I get excited, yeah
When you get jealous too

Oh (that's why)
I still get jealous
Oh (that's why)
I still get jealous

I'm pretty sure the song "Kill Me" by The Pretty Reckless is about a girl being a slut

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 03, 2016, 01:42:12 AM
Oh my gosh, I could play this game all day, lol

OK, me too, let's do it! Let's post the songs that are degrading to women (no rappers). Let's explore this, shall we?  :grin:
But one at a time.

Quote
Tyler Farr
"Redneck Crazy"

Gonna drive like hell through your neighborhood
Park this Silverado on your front lawn
Crank up a little Hank,
Sit on the hood and drink
I'm about to get my pissed off on

I'm gonna aim my headlights into your bedroom windows
Throw empty beer cans at both of your shadows
I didn't come here to start a fight, but I'm up for anything tonight
You know you broke the wrong heart, baby,
And drove me redneck crazy

Wish I knew how long it's been going on
How long you've been getting some on the side
Nah, he can't amount to much by the look of that little truck
Well, he won't be getting any sleep tonight

I'm gonna aim my headlights into your bedroom windows
Throw empty beer cans at both of your shadows
I didn't come here to start a fight, but I'm up for anything tonight
You know you broke the wrong heart, baby,
And drove me redneck crazy
Redneck crazy

Did you think I'd wish you both the best,
Endless love and happiness?
You know that's just not the kind of man I am
Yeah, I'm the kind that shows up at your house at 3 A.M.

I'm gonna aim my headlights into your bedroom windows
Throw empty beer cans at both of your shadows
I didn't come here to start a fight,
But I'm up for anything tonight
You've gone and broke the wrong heart, baby,
And drove me redneck crazy
You drove me redneck crazy, oh, yeah.

I will never break a redneck's heart! I promise.  :run!:



You have to watch the video! It's a whole military operation!  ;D

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 03, 2016, 12:25:50 AM
It certainly isn't all sexist

Well... A determined feminazi is likely to find sexism in whatever lyrics you pick, probably even like... O Canada.

Is it just me, or is sexism percieved to be everywhere regardless of context or motives? Me, my motives are my own, which I assume to also be true of women. It's an important distinction, by the way. I would not put it past some women, for instance, to become like... Tom Jones' trophy girlfriend, so why is it sexist of him to sing about having or wanting one?

Yes, I guess it would be sexist to sing that all women are whores or some such nonsense, but most "sexist" lyrics seem to refer to a specific person. Real or imaginary, but just one. So much for degrading to women [plural]... And even when they don't sing about someone specific... I don't like Bill Maher at all, but to paraphrase something we agree on, when them rappers sing about having hoes in different area codes, it may well be because some women just are.





Hate mail to the right, support mail to the left, crackpot mail straight to the bin please. :lynch:

 :lol:
Yes, my dear Asmo, when them rappers sing about having hoes in different area codes, it may well be because some women just are, but the next song explains why some women are hoes:

QuoteAww, son

Now honey you can't blame her for what her mama gave her
It ain't right to hate her for working that moneymaker...

:sad sigh:

It's not just rappers who objectify women. I guess if they can do that, well then so can the loud, rowdy bar that plays "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk"


I don't know, but this one sounds like the Honky Tonk version of, "Baby Got Back"  by Sir Mix-a-Lot.  :notsure:

Quote"Honky Tonk Badonkadonk" Written by Dallas Davidson, Randy Houser and Jamey Johnson, and recorded by American country music artist Trace Adkins.

Advisory - the following lyrics contain explicit language:

Turn it up son
Alright boys, this is her favorite song, you know that, right?
So if we play it good and loud she might get up and dance again
Aw she's pretty good now
Here she comes, here she comes
Left, left, left-right-left

Hustlers shootin' eight ball
Throwin' darts at the walls
Feeling damn near ten feet tall
Here she comes Lord help us all
Old TW's girlfriend done slapped him out his chair
Poor old boy it ain't his fault it's so hard not to stare at that

Honky tonk badonkadonk
Keepin' perfect rhythm make you want to swing along
Got it goin' on like Donkey Kong
And ooh well shut my mouth, slap your grandma
There ought to be a law, get the sheriff on the phone
Lord have mercy how'd she even get them britches on
With that honky tonk badonkadonk,

Aww, son

Now honey you can't blame her for what her mama gave her
It ain't right to hate her for working that moneymaker
Band shuts down at two but we're hanging out 'til three
We hate to see her go but love to watch her leave with that

Honky tonk badonkadonk
Keepin' perfect rhythm make you want to swing along
Got it goin' on like Donkey Kong
And ooh well shut my mouth, slap your grandma
There ought to be a law, get the sheriff on the phone
Lord have mercy how'd she even get them britches on
With that honky tonk badonkadonk,

Aww, son
Oh that's what I'm talkin' 'bout right there

We don't care about the drinkin', barely listen to band
Our hands they start to shakin' when she gets the urge to dance
Drivin' everybody crazy you think you fell in love
Boys you better keep your distance, you can look but you can't touch

Honky tonk badonkadonk
Keepin' perfect rhythm make you want to swing along
Got it goin' on like Donkey Kong
And ooh well shut my mouth, slap your grandma
There ought to be a law, get the sheriff on the phone
Lord have mercy how'd she even get them britches on
With that honky tonk badonkadonk,

That honky tonk badonkadonk
That's it right there boys
That's why we do what we do
It ain't for the money, it ain't for the glory
It ain't for the free whiskey
It's for the badonkadonk

Edit: I had to fix my grammar.  :eyeroll:
Can't be a dumb-trifling-illiterate-hoe.  :nu-uh:

Hmm... Right, left or the bin™ though..?

Methink this one goes sort of to the rightish-left.  ;D

When it comes to objectifying [often specific, and I do stand by that particular point's importance] women... Well, yes, I suppose some in the entertainment industry do that. However, it's worth noting that there are no murky depths to those shallow lyrics, and if they are a reflection of self, then it stands to reason that there is no depth to the lyricist either. So what if some shallow asshole objectifies you? It's what they do. Given half a chance, I think one of them would just as easily objectify me, although probably in a non-sexual way. Would you even like one such person if the only thing different about him was that he didn't objectify? Or do you not trust those of us not completely intellectually bankrupt not to listen to them songs, then promptly go completely intellectually bankrupt? Because otherwise, it seems like a made up problem.

That said, treating people like furniture or beating the shit out them lovingly... I'll take the former. Well, actually, I'll take neither unless forced as I am a bit of a staunch meritocrat, but yeah... There it is.

Both use of "all/everything" and "femanazis" are red herrings. Nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and "femanazis" as a concept were made up by people supporting the status quo.

As to the rest, I'll put it this way...

I want a black friend that's quiet and knows his place. He should be happy to hang out and clean up whenever he's around my place. I want him to call my BF "sir" and avert his gaze whenever either of us enter the room, and not speak unless spoken to. He should be happy and humble about his lot in life but also clean up well for show when in public or when other company is over. I'm not racist, these are just qualities I value in my black friends.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 03, 2016, 10:39:41 AM
Hmm... Right, left or the bin™ though..?

Methink this one goes sort of to the rightish-left.  ;D
...

I'm fine with that, Asmo.  ;D

That got kind of intense. I don't really have anything to add, so I'll just offer my support by saying that I agree with Mags and Pasta Chick.

I don't like all rap, but I don't hate the genre. There is a lot that I like and a lot that I find kind of meh. One genre that I dislike almost entirely, is the boy band genre. Now that is a genre that is almost entirely sexist. The lyrics to almost all boy band songs make me cringe, girl.

When I hear a person use the term "feminazi" (and not as a joke to make fun of people that use that term in earnest), it's like when a person brings up solipsism as a counter point in a philosophical discussion. It should be frowned upon in the same light.

Like Pasta Chick mentioned earlier, this is not the first time, and probably won't be the last time we'll hear someone say, "I hate rap." But is it the music they hate or the artists? And "hate?" That's such a strong word. Hate means unable to bear/stand, to find intolerable. Hate causes rage and violence even death.

I found this article, I think it explains a lot of what I'm trying to say, but can't  :-\ because I am not a 35 year-old black woman with a Masters degree in Multicultural Counseling like the author of this article is. She has the ability to say things better than I can.
How To Stop Being Racist #20: Stop Saying You Hate Rap Music (http://www.myblackfriendsays.com/2014/05/how-to-stop-being-racist-20-stop-saying.html)

Quote
...

Someone who says "I hate all music except rap and country" is less likely to get the side eye from me, because we all know that while black people make rap, white people make country. So they probably just hate the different sounds associated with the different musics.

But when someone says,

"I hate rap...Just rap...Rap really annoys me for some reason I just haven't been able to put my finger on yet."

What I hear is:

I hate young, urban black males and all that they stand for. It is not acceptable for me to say I hate young
black urban males and all that they stand for, but is IS acceptable for me to say I hate rap, so...I hate rap.


I'm not saying this is a conscious thought on the part of these people, or that it is even accurate. It's just my perception. Also, I realize it is a bit unfair to associate things with peoples' unconscious minds, since that is not something that can be proven or disproven in a court of law or a labratory. But don't blame me, blame Freud. Personally, I think he's onto something. And if you're white getting mad, I think this rule applies to people of color too--just put internalized in front of the word racist.

...

Very interesting...  :chin:

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 04:55:23 PM
That got kind of intense.

I know...and this is only the beginning.  :worried:
We started with rap, then it went to police brutality, hating hoes in different area codes, rednecks, "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk" and the "ideal black friend," etc, etc, etc!

So it looks as if rap and many other things are connected.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 03, 2016, 01:56:54 PM
Both use of "all/everything" and "femanazis" are red herrings. Nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and "femanazis" as a concept were made up by people supporting the status quo.

Yes, well... I do use the term selectively to describe those feminists, some of whose very loud and public ideas I find ridiculous and tiresome to have to answer again and again. Thus, my use of the term is akin to that of "crackpot" or "fundie." I do not apply it to people who promote equality in the eyes of the law rather than, say, try to get me to conform to some bullshit "wouldn't it be nice if..." social "norm."

Quote
As to the rest, I'll put it this way...

I want a black friend that's quiet and knows his place. He should be happy to hang out and clean up whenever he's around my place. I want him to call my BF "sir" and avert his gaze whenever either of us enter the room, and not speak unless spoken to. He should be happy and humble about his lot in life but also clean up well for show when in public or when other company is over. I'm not racist, these are just qualities I value in my black friends.

I'm not from the US, so slavery, which I assume is what you are ever-so-subtly referring to, is not a sensitive issue to me. With nothing read between the lines though, that description is pretty mild on racism scale (however astronomical heights it may reach on the asshole scale), although one would imagine it might be percieved otherwise simply because you made a generalised distinction based on skin color at all.

How is that diffrerent from "my hoe is a gardening tool?" Well, them square brackets from earlier...

Quote from: The AsmoWhen it comes to objectifying [often specific, and I do stand by that particular point's importance] women...

...Still accepting hate mail. HAF is way too civilized for the real world in which we live, is what it is.  :(

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2016, 05:00:31 PM
And "hate?" That's such a strong word. Hate means unable to bear/stand, to find intolerable. Hate causes rage and violence even death.

Also, this. This deserves its own QFT-reply. If you actually hate rap, that ought to be a different emotion entirely from, say, a six year old's "hatred" of broccoli.








Oh, and me, I generally dislike Country, because fuck them white people and their red necks. Well, no, just not pleasing to my ears. There is a song or two which do work for me, but I think in the Country vs. Rap question, my favourite song would go to the latter. It's Ballin' by Snoop Dogg and The Dramatics... It's smooth, but not exactly representative of the genre.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 03, 2016, 05:44:03 PM
Oh, and me, I generally dislike Country, because fuck them white people and their red necks. Well, no, just not pleasing to my ears. There is a song or two which do work for me, but I think in the Country vs. Rap question, my favourite song would go to the latter.

Asmo... :smileshake:

Quote from: Asmodean on October 03, 2016, 05:37:37 PM
...Still accepting hate mail. HAF is way too civilized for the real world in which we live, is what it is.  :(

Maybe this time you'll get something in the mail.

:secrets1: ...But I doubt it. 

Quote from: Asmodean on October 03, 2016, 05:44:03 PM
It's Ballin' by Snoop Dogg and The Dramatics... It's smooth, but not exactly representative of the genre.

Ballin' by Snoop Dogg and The Dramatics
:notes:
:dance1:
- Im Fly by Snoop Dogg Feat Nate Dogg, Warren G

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2016, 05:02:42 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 04:55:23 PM
That got kind of intense.

I know...and this is only the beginning.  :worried:
We started with rap, then it went to police brutality, hating hoes in different area codes, rednecks, "Honky Tonk Badonkadonk" and the "ideal black friend," etc, etc, etc!

So it looks as if rap and many other things are connected.

Conversations like this tend to go to many places. I found the "bleating by lesser mammals" bit particularly disturbing. And I agree with the point of hating a one genre of music for having some artists do a thing, but no hate on all the other genres that have artists who do the same thing.

I think it's perfectly fine and reasonable for a person to not like a genre, but I don't understand hating a genre. But I can also understand the colloquial usage of "hate," but I hear people hating on rap so much that I'm not sure that there are a lot that actually hate it. And it's kind of clear that there is hate when a person goes so far as to call those who perform rap to be "lesser mammals."

Quote from: Asmodean on October 03, 2016, 05:37:37 PM

Quote from: The AsmoWhen it comes to objectifying [often specific, and I do stand by that particular point's importance] women...

...Still accepting hate mail. HAF is way too civilized for the real world in which we live, is what it is.  :(

I don't have any hate. I think it's fine to do a little bit objectifying, it happens on both sides from time to time. Finding people attractive or not is not something that can be controlled. What can be controlled is how we treat other people, but that is another topic. What I mean is, that I would be fine with an objective song every now and then, I find my GF attractive and while I appreciate her for many things, that is one... if only there were a song appreciating her putting up with my terrible jokes all the time...

My complaint about the objectifying, most of time they are objectifying and belittling. While I'm not a feminazi, I do tend to find condescending and objectifying lyrics in many popular songs. So what I really have a problem with, is the dehumanizing of women, not that there are songs about women being attractive. Yeah, dehumanizing is a better word for it. And if it were a song her and there, I wouldn't have a problem. I think it's a lot like chemicals, in that all chemicals are safe in the right amounts, but that our airwaves are filled with large amounts of reducing women to sexual objects. Which I think it bad for the environment.

A lot of this stuff is like running on a broken foot. The broken foot being how women are treated in total by society. You get some guys saying, it's healthy to run while ignoring that the foot is broken. And many feminists are saying, let's let the foot heal because running on a broken foot doesn't help.

Interesting but I still pretty much hate modern day rap (by which I refer to the more commercial types as I believe I said earlier), there are exceptions and I don't agree that "hate" is too strong a word. If I were prepared to listen to more maybe my mind would change but, in general terms I'm not. I do not believe that liking/disliking (even loving/hating) one particular genre of music says little about anyone except that they love or hate that partricular genre.

Keke

Quote from: DavinI don't have any hate. I think it's fine to do a little bit objectifying, it happens on both sides from time to time. Finding people attractive or not is not something that can be controlled. What can be controlled is how we treat other people, but that is another topic. What I mean is, that I would be fine with an objective song every now and then, I find my GF attractive and while I appreciate her for many things, that is one... if only there were a song appreciating her putting up with my terrible jokes all the time...

You do jokes??!?

Quote from: Siz on October 03, 2016, 08:25:51 PM

Quote from: DavinI don't have any hate. I think it's fine to do a little bit objectifying, it happens on both sides from time to time. Finding people attractive or not is not something that can be controlled. What can be controlled is how we treat other people, but that is another topic. What I mean is, that I would be fine with an objective song every now and then, I find my GF attractive and while I appreciate her for many things, that is one... if only there were a song appreciating her putting up with my terrible jokes all the time...

You do jokes??!?

Almost all the time. Some are successful.

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Conversations like this tend to go to many places. I found the "bleating by lesser mammals" bit particularly disturbing.

Yes. I'm still waiting for an answer from Icarus, so I will not talk about it, yet. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he meant by that. I even did the whole "Kanye West fish stick diagram."  :lol:
I'll just wait.  If he doesn't want to answer that's fine.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 03, 2016, 08:22:10 PM
Interesting but I still pretty much hate modern day rap (by which I refer to the more commercial types as I believe I said earlier), there are exceptions and I don't agree that "hate" is too strong a word. If I were prepared to listen to more maybe my mind would change but, in general terms I'm not. I do not believe that liking/disliking (even loving/hating) one particular genre of music says little about anyone except that they love or hate that partricular genre.

Keke

How much hate are we talking about? Is it hate like the terrorists hate this side of the world? Or hate like when people say, "I hate, hate, hate, English Breakfast tea, Scottish Breakfast, Irish Breakfast, scones, devonshire cream/Clotted cream/Cornish cream/lemon curd, strawberry jam, cucumber tea sandwiches, and pastries? --Oh, and no disrespect to the British."

:sad sigh:

It doesn't matter, really. It's just a dumb question. I wish you the best in all your hate. May you live long, stew in it for as long as you can, and prosper in it.

:spock:

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 09:03:34 PM

Quote from: Siz on October 03, 2016, 08:25:51 PM

Quote from: DavinI don't have any hate. I think it's fine to do a little bit objectifying, it happens on both sides from time to time. Finding people attractive or not is not something that can be controlled. What can be controlled is how we treat other people, but that is another topic. What I mean is, that I would be fine with an objective song every now and then, I find my GF attractive and while I appreciate her for many things, that is one... if only there were a song appreciating her putting up with my terrible jokes all the time...

You do jokes??!?

Almost all the time. Some are successful.

This one was.  :lol:

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2016, 10:11:58 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Conversations like this tend to go to many places. I found the "bleating by lesser mammals" bit particularly disturbing.

Yes. I'm still waiting for an answer from Icarus, so I will not talk about it, yet. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he meant by that. I even did the whole "Kanye West fish stick diagram."  :lol:
I'll just wait.  If he doesn't want to answer that's fine.

Mags I used the term; "lesser mammals" in a fit of irritation. Here's why....I am not pleased when I drive down the boulevard, a generally acknowledged civilized area, and have to listen to ....or be exposed to the high decibel sound systems in certain cars. Specifically the ones that are doing rap that includes the apparent obligatory use of words like motherfucker and bitch, slut, whore, and motherfucker again and again.  I don't like that such stuff is inflicted on the general public and especially little girls who are made of sugar and spice and everything nice. 

I am anything but a goodie two shoes. In fact I can and occasionally not publicly, do  use profanity equal to the worst of it. That I am opposed to, and vociferously condemn that kind of "rap music" is not something that I am inclined to apologize for. Lesser mammals is a descriptive term that fits the semi humans that I describe.

And just wait a damned minute.  In the above I have not once assigned a racist suggestion so do not get all stirred up about your own sensitivities by misinterpreting what I have written..  Dumb honky ass holes are just as culpable as the darker skinned assholes. I make no distinction.

Here is a vid that almost comes off as rap. The woman is good at her rapid delivery, she is making some sense but her delivery is a tad strident, thankfully not quite as strident as the cop killer rap that I keep hearing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShrWgdHEwHs

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2016, 10:15:06 PMHow much hate are we talking about?

It's just a word. Intensity depends on context.

Keke

"Cheeseburger" is just a word. Cheeseburger is a burger with cheese.  ;)









/end philosophy

Quote from: Asmodean on October 04, 2016, 12:02:02 PM
"Cheeseburger" is just a word. Cheeseburger is a burger with cheese.  ;)
/end philosophy

I hate cheeseburgers too.

Keke

"Too" is just a word too.

...And The Asmo, it appears that He has a new word game to play. :smilenod:

Quote from: Icarus on October 04, 2016, 06:14:55 AM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2016, 10:11:58 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
Conversations like this tend to go to many places. I found the "bleating by lesser mammals" bit particularly disturbing.

Yes. I'm still waiting for an answer from Icarus, so I will not talk about it, yet. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he meant by that. I even did the whole "Kanye West fish stick diagram."  :lol:
I'll just wait.  If he doesn't want to answer that's fine.

Mags I used the term; "lesser mammals" in a fit of irritation. Here's why....I am not pleased when I drive down the boulevard, a generally acknowledged civilized area, and have to listen to ....or be exposed to the high decibel sound systems in certain cars. Specifically the ones that are doing rap that includes the apparent obligatory use of words like motherfucker and bitch, slut, whore, and motherfucker again and again.  I don't like that such stuff is inflicted on the general public and especially little girls who are made of sugar and spice and everything nice. 

I am anything but a goodie two shoes. In fact I can and occasionally not publicly, do  use profanity equal to the worst of it. That I am opposed to, and vociferously condemn that kind of "rap music" is not something that I am inclined to apologize for. Lesser mammals is a descriptive term that fits the semi humans that I describe.

And just wait a damned minute.  In the above I have not once assigned a racist suggestion so do not get all stirred up about your own sensitivities by misinterpreting what I have written..  Dumb honky ass holes are just as culpable as the darker skinned assholes. I make no distinction.

Thank you for taking the time to answer what "a lesser mammal" means to you. I had a feeling it was used as an insult. You didn't say all these things when you made your post, that's why I asked you to define your words.

My "sensitivities" didn't misinterpret anything, neither did my common sense. I didn't assumed you were being racist, hateful yes, but not racist. You said you live in a "civilized" area, so why are there "lesser mammals" or "semi humans" around there? You can't get rid of them? Would you want to get rid of them?

Your answer is still not clear. You said,

QuoteRap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

You said you do not like to,

Quotebe exposed to the high decibel sound systems in certain cars. Specifically the ones that are doing rap that includes the apparent obligatory use of words like motherfucker and bitch, slut, whore, and motherfucker again and again.

So what is it?
1. Those who create rap,
2. the high decibel sound system,
3. the bad words used to express anger,
4. those who listen to rap?
That's a lot of lesser mammals, or semi humans that you live around. Just as you are angry about all this, rappers are angry about many things as well.

You get to express your anger in a forum, others rap. I have to read about you calling other human beings, "lesser mammals" or "semi humans" which I think is extremely offensive, and Davin thinks is disturbing. So thanks to you, I have been talking to my 5 and 13 year old kids about it because some boys are also made of sugar and spice and everything nice, not just girls. Yes, my kids love rap, and we do talk about the lyrics, but your words have given us a lot more to talk about this whole week.

I'm sorry to hear that the air waves in your almost perfectly civilized world is being contaminated  by lesser humans. You are a very intelligent man, I'm a bit surprised to hear that you still haven't learned to share the world, yet.

If there aren't lesser mammals, why did God invent the French, Australians and Chavs?

Keke

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 04, 2016, 03:24:33 PM
If there aren't lesser mammals, why did God invent the French, Australians and Chavs?

Keke

And pesky Luxemburgers >:(

Quote from: Magdalena on October 04, 2016, 02:59:50 PM
1. Those who create rap,
2. the high decibel sound system,
3. the bad words used to express anger,
4. those who listen to rap?
That's a lot of lesser mammals, or semi humans that you live around. Just as you are angry about all this, rappers are angry about many things as well.

I am the kind of lesser mammal that listens to rap. I wish I was the kind of lesser mammal that could create rap. I'm also a lesser mammal that occasionally likes to listen to some music loud. I'm also the kind of lesser animal that uses words that many people irrationally call "bad words."

Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2016, 08:01:28 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 04, 2016, 02:59:50 PM
1. Those who create rap,
2. the high decibel sound system,
3. the bad words used to express anger,
4. those who listen to rap?
That's a lot of lesser mammals, or semi humans that you live around. Just as you are angry about all this, rappers are angry about many things as well.

I am the kind of lesser mammal that listens to rap. I wish I was the kind of lesser mammal that could create rap. I'm also a lesser mammal that occasionally likes to listen to some music loud. I'm also the kind of lesser animal that uses words that many people irrationally call "bad words."

~Thanks for the wonderful .gif, Apathy.  :grin: Are you also a "lesser mammal" who loves rap? Let's "own" the word, shall we?  ;D

Come on, Icarus, don't tell me this doesn't move you.  :dance1:

There is no genre of music that I cannot appreciate. Doesn't mean that I like every song, just means that I can find some merit in the genre.  Music comes from human experience, so affirming music is affirming humanity.  It's a window into a section of culture.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 05, 2016, 03:09:42 AM
There is no genre of music that I cannot appreciate. Doesn't mean that I like every song, just means that I can find some merit in the genre.  Music comes from human experience, so affirming music is affirming humanity.  It's a window into a section of culture.

:tellmemore:
That was nice, Ecurb Noselrub.

It's nice to see you here. I'm glad you came to the party.

:secrets1: I've been watching you react to the comments...
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/9517818e41ccf0d61e859a1394baa2a5/tumblr_myuql0fPrC1qjozueo6_r1_250.gif)

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F31.media.tumblr.com%2Fe97f8fb6ab5470c63b03015658d97cc2%2Ftumblr_mz5xdvMs4j1qhm3wgo2_250.gif&hash=07ec35dd8fa5cccdd40f2aa9477978d21672f569)

You look good, how's your "condition?"
:grin:

Fuck tha police

 One last explanation and I am outta' this thread.

I do reckon that I have offended Mags and perhaps others. For that, I am sorry.

There are some people who spend large sums of money to buy large sound systems for their automobile. Those systems are capable of 110 decibel sound intensity, perhaps more. That is in the neighborhood of the sound that a Boeing 737 makes. The sound intensity is capable of breaking windows. I am not exaggerating in the slightest.  If you are within ten car lengths of the sound source it can hurt your ears.  Imagine yourself stopped at a traffic light and one of those machines are near you.

We have ordinances that prescribe the sound level that is permitted in the public places.  The ordinance says that music or other sounds must not be loud enough that normal hearing will detect the sound within 50 feet of the source. The sounds I am protesting can be heard  a thousand feet away.  When asked why a perpetrator finds it necessary to terrorize the area with all that noise, the answer is almost always; "I like to piss people off" or words to that affect.  (aside note; We had  person with that attitude a while back....Music Loving Atheist If memory serves)

The almost invariable choice of the loud car type is rap. That may be because rap has very deep bass rhythm beats. The low frequency vibrations are what causes plate glass windows to shake, sometimes even crack.  The incredibly loud rap rhyme is frequently characterized by the trashy words that I previously described.

I am only one of the overwhelming majority of the local population that is offended by the incredibly loud noise and also by the language that is being broadcast for whole city blocks. The people who make all that noise are displaying anarchistic behavior.

Very large older model cars and pickup trucks are the choice of the noise guys. That is because a lot of space is needed to house the array of enormous speakers that are required to create the din. . It takes a hell of a powerful amplifier to drive those huge speakers. Just imagine the ampere consumption of a thousand watt amplifier. .....If operated at 12 volts the energy drain will be 83 plus amps. That kind of drain will flatten a conventional car battery in minutes. The solution is to use huge auxiliary batteries such as the ones that drive golf carts. To charge batteries of that kind and keep them charged requires a much larger alternator/generator than is normal for an automobile. So a huge alternator is grafted onto the engine. Engine fuel consumption is affected when driving the large generating unit.  There is a whole industry out there that supplies the parts and components of those hellish machines. There are obviously customers who support that industry. The customers, by definition, are people who have  zero consideration for the peace and comfort of the general public. I am not the only old curmudgeon who can contrive uncomplimentary names for such social misfits.

Truth to tell I am turned on by certain kinds of loud noises.  I have spent a pretty good chunk of my life in the pits at race tracks as well as a lot of time in dynamometer rooms. Powerful engines can make their own kind of music. That music is confined to venues, race tracks, that are remote from neighborhoods, or shopping centers or apartment buildings. Nor do race engines  ever use gratuitous profanity.

There.  That is enough of my explanatory missive. I have apologized if I have offended my peers here on HAF. I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace.  ..........have a nice day......

I disagree with neither the wording nor the content of what you said. Some people just don't seem to care that their rights end where others' rights begin. "Lesser mammals" is an appropriate description for those, as is "insensitive mongrels."

Also, I have half a mind of starting yet another discussion on the ease with which the racism card gets played these days, but... Maybe another time. I'll join in if someone else wants a whack at that tired old piñata.

Quote from: Icarus on October 05, 2016, 07:42:11 AMOne last explanation and I am outta' this thread.

...

...

There.  That is enough of my explanatory missive. I have apologized if I have offended my peers here on HAF. I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace.  ..........have a nice day......

I get it ... I have, on ocassion, been heard to say (or even yell) things like, "Turn it up, they can't hear it in China" to the odd person driving vehicles like that.

That's not to say I don't like loud music in my car, I do but I have a fairly ordinary MP3 stereo, loud enough to disguise my godawful "singing" voice ... it is, I will admit, terribly good to sing along to :)

My wife thinks it's loud but it doesn't compare (not even close) to some of the systems driven around our neighbourhood. I will, of course, know when I get myself a stereo that, "Goes to 11" :)

Keke

None of that is remotely a problem with RAP though. It's a problem with people being assholes. Which is my entire fucking point (oopsie, a bad word from a sugar and spice nice little girl  ::))

I live on the end of a secondary road that connects the more rural side of town with the main road to the cities. Which leads to a crapton of altered motorcycles and cars speeding past my back yard (which is also a school zone btw). It's also the cross trail for the major snowmobile trail in the area, which means I have a ton of assholes on quads and dirt bikes illegally tearing through my front yard on a regular basis. They tend to be covered in numetal/alternative decals, or actively blaring some sort of rock music. Yet somehow, not only have I not written off an entire genre, I still actively enjoy parts of it on a daily basis, and just hate assholes who speed around illegally making a ton of noise.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 05, 2016, 07:55:49 AM
I disagree with neither the wording nor the content of what you said. Some people just don't seem to care that their rights end where others' rights begin. "Lesser mammals" is an appropriate description for those, as is "insensitive mongrels."

Also, I have half a mind of starting yet another discussion on the ease with which the racism card gets played these days, but... Maybe another time. I'll join in if someone else wants a whack at that tired old piñata.

My dear, Asmo.  :smileshake:
You are a white Norwegian, what do you know about the "racism card that gets played these days?" If you would like to discuss this topic, please start a: I Hate White Power Rock--thread. It stands against everything you believe, right?

Quote from: Icarus on October 05, 2016, 07:42:11 AM
One last explanation and I am outta' this thread.

I do reckon that I have offended Mags and perhaps others. For that, I am sorry.

OK

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 05, 2016, 12:55:03 PM
None of that is remotely a problem with RAP though. It's a problem with people being assholes. Which is my entire fucking point (oopsie, a bad word from a sugar and spice nice little girl  ::))
...

:lol:

Quote from: Icarus on October 05, 2016, 07:42:11 AM
One last explanation and I am outta' this thread.

I do reckon that I have offended Mags and perhaps others. For that, I am sorry.

[...]

There.  That is enough of my explanatory missive. I have apologized if I have offended my peers here on HAF. I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace.  ..........have a nice day......

That's fine, but that's not why I am disturbed by your language.

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

You may notice, that your original statement has fuck all to do with people listening to music loudly. And if you try to stretch it that far, English will break. If I wasn't following this thread and didn't see your name attached to the posts, I would never be able to tell that your "one last statement" is talking about the first one.

Just for s&g...

Harvard's Project Implicit (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/iatdetails.html)

Quote from: Asmodean on October 05, 2016, 07:55:49 AM
I disagree with neither the wording nor the content of what you said. Some people just don't seem to care that their rights end where others' rights begin. "Lesser mammals" is an appropriate description for those, as is "insensitive mongrels."

Also, I have half a mind of starting yet another discussion on the ease with which the racism card gets played these days, but... Maybe another time. I'll join in if someone else wants a whack at that tired old piñata.

Maybe you need to look again at how the "lesser mammals" term was used:

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

As opposed to yodeling, which actually sounds like bleating, though I wouldn't call yodelers "lesser mammals."

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 05, 2016, 02:58:48 PM
Just for s&g...

Harvard's Project Implicit (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/iatdetails.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/fRtiulL.png)

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 05, 2016, 02:58:48 PM
Just for s&g...

Harvard's Project Implicit (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/iatdetails.html)

I hate web pages like that ... bloody thing just kept leading me round in loops.

Keke

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 03:50:42 PM

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 05, 2016, 02:58:48 PM
Just for s&g...

Harvard's Project Implicit (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/iatdetails.html)

I hate web pages like that ... bloody thing just kept leading me round in loops.

Keke

My goodness...child!
Really!?
Hate! Hate! Hate! 
:blahblah:

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 02:28:33 PM
If you would like to discuss this topic, please start a: I Hate White Power Rock--thread. It stands against everything you believe, right?

I don't know if anything is against everything I believe. Too difficult to analyse; my beliefs are many and dynamic.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 05, 2016, 04:29:15 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 02:28:33 PM
If you would like to discuss this topic, please start a: I Hate White Power Rock--thread. It stands against everything you believe, right?

I don't know if anything is against everything I believe. Too difficult to analyse; my beliefs are many and dynamic.

That's what I thought, Asmo.

It's gettin'
It's gettin'
It's gettin'
Kinda hectic

So let's all take a nice break... :)

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 04:21:39 PMMy goodness...child!
Really!?
Hate! Hate! Hate! 
:blahblah:

No, not a child ... a deliberate choice. Whether you approve or not, my use of the English language is perfectly aceptable. That you find it offensive says rather more about you than it does me.

Keke

Rap is awful. Absolutely awful. One of the worst sounds there is. It is complete garbage! It sucks! I would rather be dipped in honey and fed to fire ants than willfully listen to rap, as I am positive it would be less painful. Rap sucks, yesterday, today , tomorrow, and forever and ever and ever!

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 05:17:31 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 04:21:39 PMMy goodness...child!
Really!?
Hate! Hate! Hate! 
:blahblah:

No, not a child ... a deliberate choice. Whether you approve or not, my use of the English language is perfectly aceptable. That you find it offensive says rather more about you than it does me.

Keke

Did I say the amount of hate that's in your heart offends me? No. It just amazes me!

Quote from: No one on October 05, 2016, 05:21:49 PM
Rap is awful. Absolutely awful. One of the worst sounds there is. It is complete garbage! It sucks! I would rather be dipped in honey and fed to fire ants than willfully listen to rap, as I am positive it would be less painful. Rap sucks, yesterday, today , tomorrow, and forever and ever and ever!

No one! Wow!
You finally came!  :grin:
I knew you had been lurking around here... ;D
I already knew you "hate rap." You didn't have to say all that and in such a descriptive manner. It has been clear since day one, but some some reason, (must be a witch--thing  :notsure:) I'm OK with you not liking it, so I will not argue with you about it. Maybe someone else would like to.

Quote from: No one on October 05, 2016, 05:21:49 PM
Rap is awful. Absolutely awful. One of the worst sounds there is. It is complete garbage! It sucks! I would rather be dipped in honey and fed to fire ants than willfully listen to rap, as I am positive it would be less painful. Rap sucks, yesterday, today , tomorrow, and forever and ever and ever!

It could be worse, it could be Rush for instance.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 05:33:31 PMDid I say the amount of hate that's in your heart offends me? No. It just amazes me!

Have you been reading the bible again? Did no one tell you the bible gets an "F" for anatomy? There is no hate in my heart, my heart is a pump, granted a fairly sophisticated little beastie, but still basically a pump. My mind (and the seat of my emotions) is hosted by my brain and, whilst I accept my heart responds to the emotional dictates of my mind, there is no emotion in that organ whatsoever.

That said, and I return to my grammatical argument, the Oxford English dictionary (pretty much the definitive dictionary of English, it even spells "colour" and "defence" correctly) defines "hate", amongst other definitions, as having "a strong aversion to (something)" for example:

"He hates flying" or [with infinitive] "I'd hate to live there."

Since it finds that OK I reiterate that I am, despite your amazement (how quaint), perfectly correct in my grammatical use of the English language to say, "I hate cheeseburgers", I hate [a given] web site" or, as I said at the start of this thread, "I hate rap". That you apparently dislike my use of it (or in some way object to it) only makes doing so all the more entertaining :)

Keke

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 06:06:31 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 05:33:31 PMDid I say the amount of hate that's in your heart offends me? No. It just amazes me!

Have you been reading the bible again? Did no one tell you the bible gets an "F" for anatomy? There is no hate in my heart, my heart is a pump, granted a fairly sophisticated little beastie, but still basically a pump. My mind (and the seat of my emotions) is hosted by my brain and, whilst I accept my heart responds to the emotional dictates of my mind, there is no emotion in that organ whatsoever.

That said, and I return to my grammatical argument, the Oxford English dictionary (pretty much the definitive dictionary of English, it even spells "colour" and "defence" correctly) defines "hate", amongst other definitions, as having "a strong aversion to (something)" for example:

"He hates flying" or [with infinitive] "I'd hate to live there."

Since it finds that OK I reiterate that I am, despite your amazement (how quaint), perfectly correct in my grammatical use of the English language to say, "I hate cheeseburgers", I hate [a given] web site" or, as I said at the start of this thread, "I hate rap". That you apparently dislike my use of it (or in some way object to it) only makes doing so all the more entertaining :)

Keke

I am a Latina woman who Loves Blacks. Oops! Did I say that? My bad. Again...I Love rap. Saying that in a mostly all white male club, such as this one, has been like this:

I would love to see all of you, who "Hate Blacks" Oops! Did I say that? My bad. Again...I would love to see of you, who "Hate Rap" go start this topic in an all black forum.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heart

Quote1.2 The heart regarded as the centre of a person's thoughts and emotions, especially love or compassion.

Quote1.3 [mass noun]One's mood or feeling.

Huh, I guess the Oxford English dictionary (I heard someone say it was the definitive English dictionary), does support the way Mags used the term "heart." Now I'll leave a condescending and sardonic remark and...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/13py6c5BSnBkic/giphy.gif)

Edit: Also, http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/85068

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F001%2F011%2F687%2F566.gif&hash=5babf3a613316ee7496357ee1da5d7087d5f0a1a)

:grin:

Pasta Chick, would you like to drop a mike?

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 02:28:33 PM

Quote from: Asmodean on October 05, 2016, 07:55:49 AM
I disagree with neither the wording nor the content of what you said. Some people just don't seem to care that their rights end where others' rights begin. "Lesser mammals" is an appropriate description for those, as is "insensitive mongrels."

Also, I have half a mind of starting yet another discussion on the ease with which the racism card gets played these days, but... Maybe another time. I'll join in if someone else wants a whack at that tired old piñata.

My dear, Asmo.  :smileshake:
You are a white Norwegian, what do you know about the "racism card that gets played these days?" If you would like to discuss this topic, please start a: I Hate White Power Rock--thread. It stands against everything you believe, right?

Asmo is a gray Norwegian.  He understands both black and white.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 06:23:08 PMI would love to see all of you, who "Hate Blacks" Oops! Did I say that? My bad. Again...I would love to see of you, who "Hate Rap" go start this topic in an all black forum.

You're a fucking idiot because your remarks imply that people like me hate blacks when nothing could be further from the truth .... I have no special affinity to people of any race (although I do of creed, I'm an atheist). I explicitly said I used to be a soul boy and into Motown, Stax, soul, funk and jazz funk (including early rap like The Sugar Hill Gang and Kurtis Blow) before I eventually left it because I basically hate today's incarnation of rap.

And if you want to talk Latino (apologies if I have that wrong), I absolutely love these guys:





I suppose the reason I like it is because it's mellow and as much because of jazz/funk/rock mix as anything though, to be fair, I just like them as a group.

Keke

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 07:34:22 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 06:23:08 PMI would love to see all of you, who "Hate Blacks" Oops! Did I say that? My bad. Again...I would love to see of you, who "Hate Rap" go start this topic in an all black forum.

You're a fucking idiot...

How quaint!  ;D

Come on, Keke....I did say, "Oops!"  :eyeroll:

It was a slip of the pen (or the tongue), you know, it happens sometimes.

Maybe it was wrong of me to imply that you/or anyone else is a hateful racist, but I did mean it when I implied that those who post, "I Hate Rap" in an all white male forum are cowards.

One more thing, I believe hate is contagious, I will not be infected by yours, I'm sorry. You seem to be looking for someone to help you carry it, normally, I would help you, but today, I don't feel like it.


(OK. I did drop the mike already, but I will pick it up one more time...)
If I am mistaken, then you start the: I Hate White Power Rock--thread


Edit: Sorry, I keep making grammatical errors, I just corrected another one. English is not my first language.  :shifty:

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 08:07:01 PMIt was a slip of the pen (or the tongue), you know, it happens sometimes.

Maybe it was wrong of me to imply that you/or anyone else is a hateful racist, but I did meant it when I implied that those who post, "I Hate Rap" in an all white male forum are cowards.

I have absolutely no idea what colour anyone is in this fucking forum ... we all hide behind handles and pictures and if there is a place/forum/thread where this is done I haven't bothered to read it. I would post the same comment anywhere on the net and I would say it straight to any of my black friends. I wouldn't say it in a room full of black people I didn't know because, guess what, I'm not stupid.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 08:07:01 PMOne more thing, I believe hate is contagious, I will not be infected by yours, I'm sorry. You seem to be looking for someone to help you carry it, normally, I would help you, but today, I don't feel like it.

I refer you to my earlier OED defintion.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 05, 2016, 08:07:01 PM(OK. I did drop the mike already, but I will pick it up one more time...)
If I am mistaken, then you start the: I Hate White Power Rock--thread

I think they are scum but for you, the absolutely most contemptuos shitheads in existence ... why do you I hate so many of my countrymen following "Brexit?" but do it for you?  Why the hell should I?

You want someone at your beck and call? Go find yourself a cabana boy.

Keke

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-09/17/8/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-15842-1410958436-7.jpg)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrtIgTJy.gif&hash=cb706a94629ee8099da4b45805f93f49b113e573)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F4c%2F4c3436a52192e89f1e403b7e88c1deb04acf793fd534f4017a4f3aaec93ef46a.jpg&hash=eb1df586fdd0f76cf27bc83905e897b4177431e1)
(https://i.imgflip.com/qscuf.jpg)

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 08:24:12 PM
...I wouldn't say it in a room full of black people I didn't know because, guess what, I'm not stupid.
...

:sad sigh:
I rest my case.

So I was slumming around the neighborhood and thought I would pop my head into the window at "Ole HAF" and see what the hell's been going on lately,...and I'm like holy shit man!

"Like there's is some fucking shit "going down here"!

I mean I was walking by and thought I saw:


"I hate rap...rap,rap, rap,... rappity fucking rap...I mean this rap crap really fucking annoys me for some reason I just haven't been able to put my finger on yet."

"Fucking Rap"


But you know what I hear is:

I hate young, urban black males and all that they stand for.
Since it is not acceptable for me to say I hate young black urban males and all that they stand for, it is acceptable for me to say I hate rap, so...I hate rap. (Fucking Political Correctness Shit)


I mean White people really love to debate whether rap is music or not, don't they.

Many white people seem to constantly degrade rap for a supposed lack of musical notes, or for only having a beat, for being classified more as poetry than music (Though they'll add that said poetry sucks, isn't even poetry).

They even get on about the lyrics ("It's all chest thumping and degrading women shit," etc....).

But seriously man, I've never heard these same folk wonder if Beethoven is music. If punk rock is music. If heavy metal is music. If country is music, or as Mags said that "Aryan White Racist Crap" called White Power Rock is fucking music.


Nope, never hear or see them post it, you could go on a hundred fucking forums (Especially all white atheist forums), and you won't see it, nope,... not one fucking time.

You won't see them get all down about how hateful and evil this shit is either, no sir...nada, nothing.

White power music
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_music)




It's so mother-fucking easy to find ways to discount other genres of music too. If you define music as having lyrics, then classical, some jazz or meditation music is out.

If you define music as an aurally pleasant string of notes, then a lot of punk, heavy metal and industrial shit is out too.

If you classify music as requiring a strong back beat, country would generally be out, along with a lot of alternative music.

Any musical genre can be discounted in some form or fashion, and yet rap is the only musical genre I have ever heard white people debate, or post about on forums. (Just once I like to see a thread titled, "I Hate Polka", or "I Hate Fucking Abba")

Of course there's this whole idea it's nothing more than, "Chest thumping and degrading women" don't you know with regards to the music and the lyrics.

While many rap lyrics do contain these themes, many other genres of music do the exact same shit.

Older rock music was full of lyrics about living a fucking life of drugs, sex, violence and rock and roll, where women were nothing but mere groupies and sex objects to write songs home to mother about.

(Apparently some middle-aged white dude singing about banging a high school girl is cool, amirite?).

Fucking Country music can be just as bad. (A lot of it sucks Royal Canadian Dick anyway)


Seriously is there some fucking musical blinder that white people wear so they can't see this?

Is this common criticism a case of, "I don't like rap music (Which maybe means, I don't like black people), therefore I can find more stuff wrong with it than the music I love and listen to"?

These fucking white people are rarely willing to recognize the huge amount of talent that most rap music requires.

They won't even acknowledge it in the slightest fucking bit, nope.

It's "black people music" which is only about drugs, sex and violence...I don't want to hear this rap either, not while I'm out driving, or walking my dog, or even pumping gas. (That last one will get you shot and killed too, remember Jordan Davis from Florida a few years back who was shot and killed by that racist, no good convicted punk ass fucking-thug, Michael Dunn?)

It's "not even music," in which case the complainer can never seem to decide what it is, if not music.

Apparently it's only the drudging, horrific and terrible sounds made by the likes of lesser mammals.

How do you defend a statement like "Lesser Mammals" when you are referring to POC, seriously how? Can you imagine anyone in the media referring to rap in this way? They'd fucking lose their job in a second. (Oh no, not more of that "Political Fucking Correctness Crap", and hey, What about my "Freeze Peaches, I gotts to have my "Fucking Freeze Peaches", and you just go on and get that fucking "Race Card" outta my face, you hear me?! If I say them folks is lesser mammals, well shit mother-fucker that don't mean I don't like em' or I'm racist, shit some of my best friends are black, hell I just love me some R & B and Gladys Night and the Pimps!)

But hey, you white folk carry on here with this shit, Cuz' seriously like I gotta get going, but hey nice seeing everyone!

Adios Amigos

Bruno de la Pole! My dear, dear, white/Gringo friend! It's so good to see you!  :hug:
As you can see, it's like bees around a beehive! But I'm alive!
There is so much power behind truth and love.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oocities.org%2Fwormymatrix%2Fpic%2Fgif%2Fstop_bullets.gif&hash=b58fdbba14f532d9c86edc299634e90c354264d6)

...Oh! And your post, Bruno de la Pole..."Dayyyyyym!"
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnXPruDN.gif&hash=a5f2f0e3ca6944057eeb6e86b879c1ef8d3f9c06)

I am a racist in the true sense of the word. There is only one race of people on this planet, human. I hate them all!

And rap still sucks. No matter what shade your skin is. You could be an orange with purple polka dot rapper, and you'd still suck!

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Hate

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 07:34:22 PM
You're a fucking idiot...

You hate rap? That's fine. You call a fellow member an idiot? That's not OK. I don't see how that comment was in any way necessary, and it doesn't make your points any more or less valid.

Nice to see you again Bruno!

BRUNO!!!

With subtle Nugent bashing and everything!

I missed my chance to drop a mic while I was at work, so I'll drop one for Bruno.

(https://media.tenor.co/images/a7e19cdeb301ce252ce51f7c9cfbc048/raw)

Also, I fucking love rap. I always have. And the whole time I've loved it, it's bothered me to no end that so many around me put it down for being trashy or violent or whatever else when IF YOU ACTUALLY LISTEN TO IT there is so much to it.

I also love country, rock, opera, all of it... Music is amazing. And I listen to grindcore (although I'm not sure one can love grindcore...?)

Quote from: Bruno de la Pole on October 05, 2016, 09:08:55 PM
Adios Amigos

Oh don't say adios, it's makes me sad!

Fuck off Davin you stupid cunt!

Consider me banned ... I'm outta here!

Well... A lot of catching up to do in this thread, it appears. We should do racism theme more often. It's like saying "abortion" at the wrong church, apparently. A good deal to respond to, so... I'll start at this point here;

Quote from: Davin on October 05, 2016, 03:02:58 PM
Maybe you need to look again at how the "lesser mammals" term was used:

Quote from: Icarus on September 27, 2016, 01:52:58 AM
Rap is not music! It is bleating noise made by lesser mammals.. Intelligent Rap??  Crude poetry can not masquerade as music.

Yes, well... I've sort of moved beyond the original statement and the scope of the post containing it. Also, knowing how these things go, I did define the realm to which my comment applied clearly enough. It was only marginally narrower (By my standards, of course) than in the post I replied to, but within the same contextual framework, which was not the same as that you refer to. Thus, I recognize your point as generally valid, but quite beside mine.

Quote
As opposed to yodeling, which actually sounds like bleating, though I wouldn't call yodelers "lesser mammals."

You wouldn't? Some of them might well be. "Lesser mammals" is too broad a term though; perhaps "lesser humans" would be  better? A "lesser mammal" calls for the question of "As compared to what [other mammal]?" Answering "Elvis" or some such (As opposed to human, dolphin or, say, monkey) would be specific beyond the scope of the question. My version only calls for comparison within the species. Then, given a few criteria here and there, some humans are less compared to others.

Quote from: Davin on October 05, 2016, 08:42:19 PM
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-09/17/8/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-15842-1410958436-7.jpg)

Why do you need black friends not to be a racist? What if you live in a place where 998 out of a thousand people are as Chinese as you and the other two are from Portugal? Are you then a racist by default?

Quote from: Asmodean on October 06, 2016, 07:48:08 AM
Why do you need black friends not to be a racist? What if you live in a place where 998 out of a thousand people are as Chinese as you and the other two are from Portugal? Are you then a racist by default?

You don't need black friends to not be racist, but, at least in America, saying "I'm not a racist because I have black friends" is highly suspect as it's usually said to excuse something extremely racist the speaker has said or done.

Oh! Yes, I see the word play involved here now. It is suspect that any one would feel obligated to justify their non-racism beyond stating it unless specifically asked to. In fact, I think even the statement "I'm not a racist" can be suspect depending on context. It sort of screams for a "but," does it not?

Quote from: Asmodean on October 06, 2016, 10:06:51 AM
Oh! Yes, I see the word play involved here now. It is suspect that any one would feel obligated to justify their non-racism beyond stating it unless specifically asked to. In fact, I think even the statement "I'm not a racist" can be suspect depending on context. It sort of screams for a "but," does it not?

Yes, it does, and it usually is followed by a "but".

The Asmo, He is not a racist, but Luxemburgers are evil.  >:(

As long as it's just talking trash though, seriously as it may well be, without encouraging or committing illegal acts... Does it actually matter? So you don't like some attribute that I posess? Ok... What's your point?

I guess many people have a different attitude towards such things, but then again, never being offended is not a right.

Yes, and in this case, is parallel to saying "I can't be racist because I listen to some music by black musicians".

Which, of course, is blatantly false. In this case I'm reading it more as "I liked black music when those n***** knew their place and stayed in it!"

The longer this thread goes on the more I'm feeling as though the Asmo is pretty unfamiliar with an inherently racist culture, but objectively agrees with the statement that rap is generally disagreeable.

I do believe you can dislike rap without being racist. Especially if your music preferences tend toward easy listening and classical and vocal music. Typically these people also dislike most rock and such as well. It's discounting entire genres and having such a rabid feeling about it that you need to start topics online to discuss it... I mean, I'm not wild about polka, but I've never once felt the urge to start a topic about it... I just switch the channel when a polka show is on and when my neighbors had weekly polka club in their pool house I enjoyed that they were quite talented and had built a community for themselves.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 06, 2016, 07:26:58 AM

Quote
As opposed to yodeling, which actually sounds like bleating, though I wouldn't call yodelers "lesser mammals."

You wouldn't? Some of them might well be. "Lesser mammals" is too broad a term though; perhaps "lesser humans" would be  better? A "lesser mammal" calls for the question of "As compared to what [other mammal]?" Answering "Elvis" or some such (As opposed to human, dolphin or, say, monkey) would be specific beyond the scope of the question. My version only calls for comparison within the species. Then, given a few criteria here and there, some humans are less compared to others.

I think it more implies mammals that are less than human a lot more than it implies a lesser mammal of the same species. It has been common for white racists in the US to refer to black people as apes, monkeys, animals (because most racists are idiots and think that humans are not animals), and/or beasts. So the term "lesser mammals" implies a similar meaning to these common racial slurs. They are meant to dehumanize black people. That is what disturbs me when a person would refer to rappers as "lesser mammals."

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 02:37:18 PM
The longer this thread goes on the more I'm feeling as though the Asmo is pretty unfamiliar with an inherently racist culture, but objectively agrees with the statement that rap is generally disagreeable.

That's true. Have I met racists? Certainly. I've been their neighbour, coworker, ets, but I don't see it as a cultural norm in urban Norway. Most people here don't give a shit what color you are. Oh, they might care whether or not you are a Muslim or some such, but that's a completely different story. Actively being Muslim in a largely apatheistic society is a choice. Being black or brown or bright yellow is not... Provided you are not the late Michael Jackson come back to haunt this doomed world of ours. ( ;) )

Quote
I do believe you can dislike rap without being racist.

Yes, and this sort of touches on my point from what seems like so long ago. Yesterday, was it?

As I see it, and I may well be wrong in my desire not to diminish the punching power of certain words, it takes more than some trash talk and personal taste to make a racist. For starters, you actually have to care what color a certain individual is to the exclusion of other considerations, such as education, intelligence, musical talent, personality... Whatever. That caring is something I, for one, just do not understand, and not for the lack of trying.

Quote
Especially if your music preferences tend toward easy listening and classical and vocal music.

Complexity. I generally like complexity. Most rap songs I like can be described as complex, just like with every other genre. What I don't like outright is searing, high-pitched notes coming at me in rapid succession. That's the reason for my general aversion to jazz music and the belowmentioned Polka for that matter, but there too are exceptions. Kenny G, for example, has contributed a number of jazzy tunes to my primary playlist.

Quote
Typically these people also dislike most rock and such as well. It's discounting entire genres and having such a rabid feeling about it that you need to start topics online to discuss it... I mean, I'm not wild about polka, but I've never once felt the urge to start a topic about it... I just switch the channel when a polka show is on and when my neighbors had weekly polka club in their pool house I enjoyed that they were quite talented and had built a community for themselves.

Well, yes, it's a valid point, and yet... Sometimes you just want to shoot the neighbour's dog. Or at least bitch loudly about it to anyone who cares to listen.

QuoteI think it more implies mammals that are less than human a lot more than it implies a lesser mammal of the same species.

It's a rather unintelligent implication, humans being "just another mammal" with them ear bones and mammary glands and hair in weird places as far as biology is concerned. But moving on;

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 03:04:54 PM
It has been common for white racists in the US to refer to black people as apes, monkeys, animals (because most racists are idiots and think that humans are not animals), and/or beasts.

Yes, you see, I didn't know that.

I'm starting to like this thread. One gets to learn new stuff about overseas-variety of assholes.  ;)

Quote
So the term "lesser mammals" implies a similar meaning to these common racial slurs. They are meant to dehumanize black people. That is what disturbs me when a person would refer to rappers as "lesser mammals."

But does it not matter who the term is being used by and how? Because as I indirectly demonstrated, it can mean something different to someone willing to reason about it with nothing implied than it can to someone who sees implications (that may or may not be there, depending on the speaker's attitude)?

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 06, 2016, 06:41:41 AM
Fuck off[,] Davin[,] you stupid cunt!

Consider me banned ... I'm outta here!

You know, one of the most important rules of the internet, is that if you're going to insult other people for spelling or punctuation errors, you can't make any yourself. I fixed it for you though. You're welcome.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 06, 2016, 03:35:35 PM

QuoteI think it more implies mammals that are less than human a lot more than it implies a lesser mammal of the same species.

It's a rather unintelligent implication, humans being "just another mammal" with them ear bones and mammary glands and hair in weird places as far as biology is concerned. But moving on;

I don't think it is. I think if someone meant a lesser mammal in the same species, they'd likely say "lesser <whatever species>" as opposed to referring to mammals which implies that they mean a different species of mammal that is lesser than. I mean, if I'm talking biology and I want talk about the height of humans, I don't say "some taller mammals" because that implies that I am talking about different species. I would say, "some taller humans," because I'm talking about humans.

Quote from: Asmodean

Quote
So the term "lesser mammals" implies a similar meaning to these common racial slurs. They are meant to dehumanize black people. That is what disturbs me when a person would refer to rappers as "lesser mammals."

But does it not matter who the term is being used by and how? Because as I indirectly demonstrated, it can mean something different to someone willing to reason about it with nothing implied than it can to someone who sees implications (that may or may not be there, depending on the speaker's attitude)?

Yes, I think that in some contexts it's not racist. But inside the original usage, which I keep bringing up because the person who said it has not yet recanted and tried to shift away from it. It's like the broken foot analogy. When you have a healthy foot, someone stepping on it will likely just result in an apology and you both move on. But if you have a broken foot, someone stepping on it will likely cause you a significant amount of pain and likely even cause damage to the foot making it take longer to heal. So while I think I could let something like that slide if it occurred in a time when there wasn't as much racism, right now, I want to protect that foot from both people that want to hurt it as well as from bumbling clumsy people.

I hate that the quoting doesn't really work from a phone...

You do not have to consciously hate or care about skin color to be racist. There is a brand of racism that employs blantant, vocal hate but there is also subconscious social racism. This a well documented thing. The sort of racism where you really don't know why, but hiring John James Smith III seems like a better idea than hiring Monique Makida Balewa. Or how you just hate that blasted rap noise.

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 03:04:54 PM
It has been common for white racists in the US to refer to black people as apes, monkeys, animals (because most racists are idiots and think that humans are not animals), and/or beasts. So the term "lesser mammals" implies a similar meaning to these common racial slurs. They are meant to dehumanize black people. That is what disturbs me when a person would refer to rappers as "lesser mammals."

I'm glad you finally said it, Davin. I was hoping Icarus would (please pardon my vulgar vocabulary) have the balls to admit it and apologize, but instead we ended up hearing about 110 decibel sound intensity, huge speakers, watt amplifier, volts, huge auxiliary batteries, huge alternator, etc. The old, let's turn it around, right now.

He even said, "I am not the only old curmudgeon who can contrive uncomplimentary names for such social misfits." As if we didn't know he wasn't the only one.  ::) Icarus also said, "The people who make all that noise are displaying anarchistic behavior." Really? You would think there would be a riot everyday where he lives, thanks to these...as he called them, "insensitive mongrels."

This type of racism also exists in the Latin American community. We are also trying to make people aware of this problem so that we can stop it. Univision is the same network that Trump told, Jorge Ramos, our Walter Cronkite, to go back to...In a tone that meant, "Go back to your country." Just like Icarus, that's not what he said, but we all are pretty sure that's what he meant because that's a common phrase racist use towards Latinos in the USA. This is hard to prove, but thanks to conversations like this one, we are unmasking the racists and they are running out of places to hide. Icarus, I'm sorry for such a strong accusation, but you must know, today, that many people saw what you did, and we are not OK with it anymore, we haven't been OK with it for a long time, but no one said anything about until today. I hope you take it as a learning experience the way Asmo is taking it.

Univision host fired for first lady comment
(http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/12/media/univision-fires-rodner-figueroa-michelle-obama/)

QuoteIn a broadcast on Wednesday, Figueroa said, "Michelle Obama looks like she's part of the cast of 'Planet of the Apes.'" Figueroa made the comments as a photo of the first lady was shown on screen.
But in his statement today, Figueroa said that his comments were intended as a criticism of an unflattering job done by Obama's makeup artist.
"The full video clip in context shows that," he said.
Figueroa referred to his own background in asserting that he's "no racist."
"I come from a biracial Latino family with members like my father who are Afro-Latino," he said.
Figueroa showed contrition, too. He apologized to Obama and said there's "no excuse" to make a comment "that could be interpreted as offensive or racist during these volatile times we're living in."

I talked with my man about this whole conversation. He said something that made sense. If a bunch of white racist men want to get together and call blacks, "monkeys" then maybe you should leave and let them do what they enjoy. Maybe they talk amongst themselves about you being an atheist Latina and they don't have the balls to tell you how they really feel about Latinos "contaminating" their communities and their forums.

~We will see.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 06, 2016, 06:41:41 AM
Fuck off Davin you stupid cunt!

Consider me banned ... I'm outta here!

I'm sorry, but this is funny.  :lol: Condemning rappers for using this same vulgar language? You know how to write the lyrics, you could make a pretty good British rapper if you set your mind to it.  ;)

Anyways... Goodbye.

I hear you, Mags. I have felt out of place here just for being a woman for a while.  :-\

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
I hear you, Mags. I have felt out of place here just for being a woman for a while.  :-\

I know. :-\

Keke called me a fucking idiot. It doesn't affect me because I know I'm not one. I mean, I'm not the smartest here, but I'm not a fucking idiot either. I've been called: Witch, dumb, asshole, nuthouse resident, fucking idiot, and one asked me if I did Lysergic acid diethylamide. I guess that's what you get when you're not one of THE club.

I have turned all those comments around and made jokes about them because I have thick skin, and (I think) I'm funny...a talent that not many people have, specially in this forum. But to tell you the truth, I am tired.

...And where have the moderator been all this time? I would like to know if the rules have changed. Are people gonna get red letters only when they are reported? When you, the moderator, feels they've broken the rules? or only when they offend you personally--the moderators?

The way moderation tends to work, is that a post gets flagged, then they are supposed to review and take action if necessary. Sometimes mods will happen upon a post that hasn't been flagged but deserves it. I don't think it's fair to expect a mod to see a post unless it has been flagged.

I don't flag many posts, and I don't flag any post where I am person that was attacked, because I don't care all that much.

Mostly, the only time I have a problem with moderation, is when a post gets flagged, and the moderator doesn't look at the context and/or automatically red letters the person flagged.

A moderator did address the insulting post, even if mod red was not used.

Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

I haven't seen that mods have been on much to catch things lately, so I asssume it relies heavily on reports currently. I generally don't report much either, and Keke did kinda self ban anyway?

The stuff that really gets me isn't really mod-able anyway. It's the same daily drudgery... you say "um hey, sorta extremely racist/sexist" and then a bunch of white men swoop in to tell you you're probably wrong and they need to discuss this objectively.

And then act surprised when atheism is referred to a white man's club.

There's enough of that shit in my daily life. I don't need it in my downtime too.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

Oh, how wonderful! We're back to square one.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 06:26:30 PM
I haven't seen that mods have been on much to catch things lately, so I asssume it relies heavily on reports currently. I generally don't report much either, and Keke did kinda self ban anyway?

The stuff that really gets me isn't really mod-able anyway. It's the same daily drudgery... you say "um hey, sorta extremely racist/sexist" and then a bunch of white men swoop in to tell you you're probably wrong and they need to discuss this objectively.

And then act surprised when atheism is referred to a white man's club.

There's enough of that shit in my daily life. I don't need it in my downtime too.

I really, really want to leave this place, but there's are a few of you that I just can't seem to leave. I would miss you guys terribly.  :'( I don't know what to do. It just breaks my heart, (my heart, not the kind Keke has.)

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.pandawhale.com%2Fpost-63730-dr-evil-right-gif-imgur-tumblr-xfWD.gif&hash=a2cfec33c6d2285e113132811d6b75e9fa53cb0a)

Kekerusey has no excuse for his behavior in this thread, and has received a one month suspension.

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...

The memes you posted essentially called Kekerusey a racist. Can you cite anything he's posted in this thread or elsewhere that supports that?

I'm sorry for interrupting, but if you have to ask that, then you don't get it, do you? You know, how racist people masquerade words?... then deny they said that, when it's extremely obvious to those of us who have to deal with that shit, always. That passive aggressive shit they do.

If I were Davin, I would answer the same way Keke answered me when I asked him to do something for me:
"Why the hell should I?

You want someone at your beck and call? Go find yourself a cabana boy."

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...

The memes you posted essentially called Kekerusey a racist.

Did they? I don't share your conclusion. I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 08:24:12 PMI would post the same comment anywhere on the net and I would say it straight to any of my black friends.

Quote from: RecusantCan you cite anything he's posted in this thread or elsewhere that supports that?

Is there anything that supports your assumptions? Shouldn't that be on you?

Literally half this topic is about why shit like starting "I hate rap" threads is subtly racist.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 07:58:53 PM
If I were Davin, I would answer the same way Keke answered me when I asked him to do something for me:
"Why the hell should I?

You want someone at your beck and call? Go find yourself a cabana boy."

I don't think it would be fair to treat him a certain way due to the actions of another person. As for the rest, it is tough for a lot of people to see things that only show clearly in aggregate. That's what makes social issues so tough to talk about, because so few social issues (especially now that outright racism is and sexism are seen to be unseemly so most who are racist and/or sexist tend to veil it), are blatant, easy to cite things.

I mean, was it racist to ask a president to release his birth certificate publicly? I mean, if that were all it were, I would let it slide. But it came from a mostly white political party, with mostly white government representatives, and against the first black president. And it's the first time it has ever happened to an American President. They didn't pull that shit with any other democratic president, just Obama. So is that clearly racism? I don't think it's 100% conclusive, but there is enough there for me to accept it with as much certainty as I do scientific conclusions.

I am not sure how me not liking rap means I dislike people with dark skin? I hate rap because it sucks! It is not music, it is extremely poorly choreographed noise! I would tell anyone that to their face. I would say it in a room full of rappers, to snoppy the rappers face. I don't give a shit who you are! I have hated rap since it was introduced. I will continue to hate it until the day I die. There isn't anyone who will ever convince me otherwise. People have been trying to get me to listen to the "good stuff" for years. But, it doesn't exist. Now as my hatred for people, it's the same. I hate people because the suck! I hate all of them. I don't care what patch of Earth you call home. I don't care what god you believe, or don't believe in! I don't care how much money you have! I don't care what sex you are, or what sex you are attracted to! People suck! All. of. Them!

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:51:02 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 07:58:53 PM
If I were Davin, I would answer the same way Keke answered me when I asked him to do something for me:
"Why the hell should I?

You want someone at your beck and call? Go find yourself a cabana boy."

I don't think it would be fair to treat him a certain way due to the actions of another person...

You are right, but if he has to ask that, it gives me the impression that he hasn't read the whole thing, doesn't understand it, or doesn't see it. I used it as an example of the passive aggressive way Keke responded. Like Pasta Chick said, "Literally half this topic is about why shit like starting "I hate rap" threads is subtly racist." And Recusant still wants you to provide proof? We have how many pages of "subtleness" so far?

This topic has made me cry, and I'm beginning to feel irritated and frustrated by it. I'm about to bust out some rap lyrics!

~I need a break. I don't like to disrespect people. I have always been very careful about that, right now, I feel like biting anything that gets near me.

~I'm sorry, Recusant.

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...

The memes you posted essentially called Kekerusey a racist.

Did they? I don't share your conclusion. I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 08:24:12 PMI would post the same comment anywhere on the net and I would say it straight to any of my black friends.

I had hoped to be proved wrong about this. Even though you posted directly after Kekerusey, and he had every reason to believe that your post is directed at him, and is calling him out as a racist, you're going with the "who, me?" feigned innocence ploy, rather than even attempting to support your mud-throwing memes with anything substantial.

I think that if you were able to support your not-so-subtle accusation of racism, you'd have been quick to cite it. The fact that you haven't speaks directly to the validity of the accusation.

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM

Quote from: RecusantCan you cite anything he's posted in this thread or elsewhere that supports that?

Is there anything that supports your assumptions? Shouldn't that be on you?

My "assumption" is that you directed those memes at Kekerusey. Are you telling me that they just happened to get posted directly after his post, and have nothing to do with him? Are you telling me that they do not strongly imply that Kekerusey is a racist?

Quote from: No one on October 06, 2016, 09:06:00 PM
I am not sure how me not liking rap means I dislike people with dark skin?

It doesn't in itself. Many have said that already. You can dislike rap, even hate it, and not be a racist.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 09:06:41 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:51:02 PM

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 07:58:53 PM
If I were Davin, I would answer the same way Keke answered me when I asked him to do something for me:
"Why the hell should I?

You want someone at your beck and call? Go find yourself a cabana boy."

I don't think it would be fair to treat him a certain way due to the actions of another person...

You are right, but if he has to ask that, it gives me the impression that he hasn't read the whole thing, doesn't understand it, or doesn't see it. I used it as an example of the passive aggressive way Keke responded. Like Pasta Chick said, "Literally half this topic is about why shit like starting "I hate rap" threads is subtly racist." And Recusant still wants you to provide proof? We have how many pages of "subtleness" so far?

This topic has made me cry, and I'm beginning to feel irritated and frustrated by it. I'm about to bust out some rap lyrics!

~I need a break. I don't like to disrespect people. I have always been very careful about that, right now, I feel like biting anything that gets near me.

~I'm sorry, Recusant.

I'd been following this thread since the OP, but admit I hadn't read every single post when I was alerted to the bullshit from Kekerusey this morning. I do have other things going on in my life, believe it or not, and I went out and did them.

On returning this afternoon, I (re)read the whole thread. My statements and the moderation action I took are based on that.

I don't buy the crap about "if you have to ask, you don't understand." A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist. Assuming otherwise is remarkably like the blindly judgmental behavior of racists themselves. I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.

"She's blonde and has a southern accent, so she's a dummy."

"He's young and black and has interacted with the police, so he's a thug."

"He hates rap music and wants to tell other people about it, so he's a racist."

None of those three statements will get a nod from me.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 07:28:24 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 06:37:24 PM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Not every person who hates rap and makes dismissive comments about it is racist. Just saying.

"Just saying." Sure, you're just saying a meaningless sentence that addressed none of the arguments presented for no reason...

The memes you posted essentially called Kekerusey a racist.

Did they? I don't share your conclusion. I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement.

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 05, 2016, 08:24:12 PMI would post the same comment anywhere on the net and I would say it straight to any of my black friends.

I had hoped to be proved wrong about this. Even though you posted directly after Kekerusey, and he had every reason to believe that your post is directed at him, and is calling him out as a racist, you're going with the "who, me?" feigned innocence ploy, rather than even attempting to support your mud-throwing memes with anything substantial.

No. I am not going with the "who, me?" ploy at all. I am quite clearly and openly mocking him mentioning having black friends. That you assume that it was something else, is your problem and not mine. Especially since you can see me saying what I was doing in the very post you just replied to. You know, the bit where I said, "I think they make fun of the "some of my best friends are black," type of statement." then quoted him saying something similar.

Quote from: RecusantI think that if you were able to support your not-so-subtle accusation of racism, you'd have been quick to cite it. The fact that you haven't speaks directly to the validity of the accusation.

What accusation is that again? The one you irrationally created in your head? Sorry, I don't see why I have to support or defend your straw men.

Quote from: Recusant

Quote from: Davin on October 06, 2016, 08:08:56 PM

Quote from: RecusantCan you cite anything he's posted in this thread or elsewhere that supports that?

Is there anything that supports your assumptions? Shouldn't that be on you?

My "assumption" is that you directed those memes at Kekerusey. Are you telling me that they just happened to get posted directly after his post, and have nothing to do with him? Are you telling me that they do not strongly imply that Kekerusey is a racist?

No, your assumption that I was calling him a racist when I didn't. I'm not going to support me calling him a racist when I didn't.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PMA person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist.

Can you cite a post where a person said that if a person hates rap, then they are a racist?

In national news...

FL Man Gets Life In Prison After Killing Teen Over Loud Music (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/florida-man-life-prison-killing-teen-loud-music-article-1.1978021)

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 05:48:21 PM
...And where have the moderator been all this time? I would like to know if the rules have changed. Are people gonna get red letters only when they are reported? When you, the moderator, feels they've broken the rules? or only when they offend you personally--the moderators?

The post or any other wasn't reported by anyone so it comes to the attention of those who read the thread. I've been really busy lately so I haven't read it all yet.

I personally don't like using mod red, but have edited my post. 

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.

"She's blonde and has a southern accent, so she's a dummy."

"He's young and black and has interacted with the police, so he's a thug."

"He hates rap music and wants to tell other people about it, so he's a racist."

None of those three statements will get a nod from me.

Then I guess the answer to it is to not masquarade what you say, just say it the way No one does. I have more respect for someone who says what they think and feel directly, then for someone who kinda, sorta, said something in a certain tone, but when confronted, denies it.

I have more of a problem with Icarus, then Keke. Like the man who was fired from Univision for saying, "Michelle Obama looks like she's part of the cast of 'Planet of the Apes.'" At least he apologised and said, "there's "no excuse" to make a comment "that could be interpreted as offensive or racist during these volatile times we're living in." If Icarus could just accept that his words have been interpreted as offensive, or racist, whether he meant it, or not, I would respect him a little bit more.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
I hear you, Mags. I have felt out of place here just for being a woman for a while.  :-\

I certainly don't think that a woman should feel out of place here - without women guys would turn into Neanderthals.  We need you!

Rap is rap and rock is rock
Gonna rap-rock 'round the clock
Don't matter what the color my skin
Rap-rock out and rap-rock in

The Man he say I don't belong
He don't like the way my song
moves my soul, my heart, my mind
He don't know just what I find

All I know is what I feel
All I know is what is real
So I go rappin' every day
When I work and when I play

Rap-rock day and rap-rock night
Rap-rock wrong and rap-rock right
Black is black and white is white
But we is one and all is tight.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist. Assuming otherwise is remarkably like the blindly judgmental behavior of racists themselves. I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.

This, as we have already sort-of established.

Quote from: Magdalena on October 06, 2016, 11:12:55 PM
I have more of a problem with Icarus, then Keke. Like the man who was fired from Univision for saying, "Michelle Obama looks like she's part of the cast of 'Planet of the Apes.'" At least he apologised and said, "there's "no excuse" to make a comment "that could be interpreted as offensive or racist during these volatile times we're living in." If Icarus could just accept that his words have been interpreted as offensive, or racist, whether he meant it, or not, I would respect him a little bit more.

That apology sucks. "The times are volatile, so let's all be politically correct with each other" is not something I, for one, buy. Personally, I think it was well within reason for Icarus to put his statements in a broader context, but I can't see how he hasn't accepted that some may have found them offensive. He just does not apologize for something he does not feel sorry about. That's a mark up in my book, at the very least.

That said, I agree that playing what you may percieve to be clever word games is not a good way to get your message across to a non-uniform audience, but that one is a coin of two sides. As some people could give up writing thickly between the lines, others could give up reading there. As a disclaimer, I'm not explicitly talking about any one here; that is my general view, one I expressed on HAF several times in the past (Usually when people read all sorts of stuff into words that meant exactly what they said, and nothing more ;) )

One still does have to deal with the metaphors, of course, but in cases where they can be interpreted in contradicting ways, I see no point in making a big deal out of a certain interpretation.

Quote from: No one on October 06, 2016, 09:06:00 PM
I don't care what patch of Earth you call home. I don't care what god you believe, or don't believe in! I don't care how much money you have! I don't care what sex you are, or what sex you are attracted to! People suck! All. of. Them!

That's sort of what my view of random individuals looks like, except that I take it one step further by not caring whether or not they suck.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 07, 2016, 12:26:48 AM
Rap is rap and rock is rock
Gonna rap-rock 'round the clock
Don't matter what the color my skin
Rap-rock out and rap-rock in

The Man he say I don't belong
He don't like the way my song
moves my soul, my heart, my mind
He don't know just what I find

All I know is what I feel
All I know is what is real
So I go rappin' every day
When I work and when I play

Rap-rock day and rap-rock night
Rap-rock wrong and rap-rock right
Black is black and white is white
But we is one and all is tight.

I like it... Might write one meself. A critique of the polite society, methink. I shall call it

Banners, labels and lies

I don't rap, nor do I rock
There's a hole in my left sock
Don't care what your banners say
Another flag - a different day

The songs of anger, fear and hate
Those politicians, who debate
Degrading culture and despair
Over those things they can't repair

I see no meaning in their lies
Nor trust the tears in their eyes
Their fancy slogans' hollow words
They don't strike any of my chords

My music softly sings its tune
From mathematics' crystal loom
It spins its notes in atmosphere
That is the sound I like to hear

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 06, 2016, 09:41:33 PM
In national news...

FL Man Gets Life In Prison After Killing Teen Over Loud Music (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/florida-man-life-prison-killing-teen-loud-music-article-1.1978021)

Here's an excerpt from the article Pasta Chick linked regarding the murder of Jordan Davis...words spoken by the murderer just before he shot and killed Jordan.

QuoteIn the courtroom, Dunn said he drove to the convenience store that day to purchase a bottle of wine with his fiancée when he was offended by the loud hip hop.

"He looked at his girlfriend and said, 'I hate that thug music,'" prosecutor John Guy said.

Here's a quote from an older post I found here at HAF after conducting a quick search about "Hate" & "Rap Music".

QuoteHonestly I find black people to be annoying, a lot of the time. I do not like sitting near them on the bus. I do not like the way they dress. I do not like the way that they butcher the English language. I think their music is incredibly stupid (and I mean it significantly lacks style, musical ability, innovation, new ideas, aka rap music)

http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=13735.msg299116#msg299116



Maybe this makes it clearer, actually brings into focus why these words "I Hate Rap" and similar statements are found to be racist.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 07, 2016, 07:37:23 AM

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist. Assuming otherwise is remarkably like the blindly judgmental behavior of racists themselves. I do not condone making assumptions about people based on broad-brush inference.

This, as we have already sort-of established.

Being that you support this and that no one else has been able to, can you cite a post by someone else in this thread that this statement is supposed to be addressing?

I offer up that no one in this thread has said that hating on rap, even publicly expressing their hate of rap, in itself means that a person is a racist. The only quote I can find of someone saying something similar is Recusant as an example of statements he won't nod to. Even if you find one, I would hope that there are at least half as many statements it is addressing as opposed to the amount of times this sentiment has been brought up. But I'd feel a lot better if there were at leas one. If you cannot cite an example of what this statement is meant to address, then what is the point of people bringing this sentiment up so often? Not one person here has disagreed with it.

Otherwise, it just looks like many people are not honestly listening to what the actual points are.

Quote from: Davin on October 07, 2016, 05:19:22 PM
...

I will come back to the points once I'm on proper hardware again, but I wanted to make it clear that my reference in this instance was of a general kind.

Quote from: Asmodean on October 07, 2016, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: Davin on October 07, 2016, 05:19:22 PM
...

I will come back to the points once I'm on proper hardware again, but I wanted to make it clear that my reference in this instance was of a general kind.

Well, I know you have discussed actual points here, but that's not what I'm interested at the moment.

Quote from: Recusant on October 06, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
A person can dislike rap, and make a public statement to that effect, but that does not make them a racist.

I'm curious as to why this statement right there (or similar statements), keep popping up in the discussion. I mean you can keep discussing the actual points, if you want, but right now, why this statement keeps popping up is what I'm interested in. What in this thread has someone said that that statement is supposed to address. If it only popped up once, I wouldn't be asking about it, but it's popped up a few times now, some from the same person.

My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

I think most people who continue to say that just because one persons says, "I hate rap" doesn't make them racist--don't live in the United States, so they don't know how most people who say that, are just masquerading what they truly want to say, but don't have the balls to say it, and when confronted won't admit it either. So what can we do? All we can do is say, "Take off your mask, and say what you really want to say."

I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed around the world, but in the USA, it just adds wood to a fire that's been burning for a long time. We don't need that.

OK, going back to Icarus:
...Because this is where all this started.

I asked him, why are you calling another human being a lesser mammal? Maybe he thought, why are you asking me this? Isn't it obvious? Then, he thought, oh, wait, maybe Mags is also one of those lesser mammals who hears rap in a very large older model pickup trucks with decibel sound intensity, enormous speakers, powerful amplifier, volts, huge auxiliary batteries, and huge alternators...and is offended by the comment I made.—I had no idea, all this time I thought you were the civilized type! So, he apologized to me.  :-\

Icarus hates rap and everything related to those who drive these, "hellish machines and terrorize the area with all that noise" –His words. Maybe he is worried that little girls, who are sugar and spice, and everything nice, will fall in love with one of this "Lesser mammals, semi humans, social misfits, insensitive mongrels, who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace."—His words. He's right; I mean what woman wouldn't want to fall in love with a man who will disturb her peace? I did.  :grin:

He said, "I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace." He makes it sound as if all he's doing is "inventing labels" No, he's not "inventing" labels, those labels have been around, and some of us are telling him, "ENOUGH!" Those labels contribute to police brutality and discrimination. Like Pasta Chick said, "...there is also subconscious social racism. This a well documented thing. The sort of racism where you really don't know why, but hiring John James Smith III seems like a better idea than hiring Monique Makida Balewa."

Anyways...
There is an ugly hurricane passing where he lives, I hope he is fine.

~The angry hippie needs peace, now.

I have covered it, for those of you with a weak constitution.

It's a song/video by Ice Cube, basically saying that the media, government, parents, are blaming gangster rap for every little negative thing that happens.

 :cleaning:

Rap should be considered a weapon of torture, and here by banned for all eternity. Doesn't matter who is wielding said weapon. White, black, green, red, teal, fuschia, or any other color.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6a/e5/ab/6ae5abde27064aadd935d4c0aa7b8e12.jpg)

Quote from: Magdalena on October 07, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
I think most people who continue to say that just because one persons says, "I hate rap" doesn't make them racist--don't live in the United States, so they don't know how most people who say that, are just masquerading what they truly want to say, but don't have the balls to say it, and when confronted won't admit it either. So what can we do? All we can do is say, "Take off your mask, and say what you really want to say."

I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed around the world, but in the USA, it just adds wood to a fire that's been burning for a long time. We don't need that.

Well, I don't know how the statement "I hate rap" is viewed in the USA, but racism isn't a problem that's exclusive to that area either. Here we also have blatant and veiled racism, which is a major social problem. It's not that I am insensitive to the plight of blacks, and racism is an ugly thing, but I just don't see how equating disliking a music genre to racism works, sorry.

Speaking for myself, I don't hate rap, but it isn't usually something I would choose to listen too, just as I don't like samba and bossa nova. ;) I don't hate blacks and everything they stand for, in my opinion they are the most poorly treated demographic in the western world and have just as much right to express themselves as anyone else in the "free" world.

Which brings me to...

QuoteOK, going back to Icarus:
...Because this is where all this started.

I asked him, why are you calling another human being a lesser mammal? Maybe he thought, why are you asking me this? Isn't it obvious? Then, he thought, oh, wait, maybe Mags is also one of those lesser mammals who hears rap in a very large older model pickup trucks with decibel sound intensity, enormous speakers, powerful amplifier, volts, huge auxiliary batteries, and huge alternators...and is offended by the comment I made.—I had no idea, all this time I thought you were the civilized type! So, he apologized to me.  :-\

Icarus hates rap and everything related to those who drive these, "hellish machines and terrorize the area with all that noise" –His words. Maybe he is worried that little girls, who are sugar and spice, and everything nice, will fall in love with one of this "Lesser mammals, semi humans, social misfits, insensitive mongrels, who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace."—His words. He's right; I mean what woman wouldn't want to fall in love with a man who will disturb her peace? I did.  :grin:

He said, "I have not apologized for inventing labels for insensitive mongrels who intentionally and gleefully disturb the peace." He makes it sound as if all he's doing is "inventing labels" No, he's not "inventing" labels, those labels have been around, and some of us are telling him, "ENOUGH!" Those labels contribute to police brutality and discrimination. Like Pasta Chick said, "...there is also subconscious social racism. This a well documented thing. The sort of racism where you really don't know why, but hiring John James Smith III seems like a better idea than hiring Monique Makida Balewa."

Anyways...
There is an ugly hurricane passing where he lives, I hope he is fine.

~The angry hippie needs peace, now.

I have covered it, for those of you with a weak constitution.

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

It's a song/video by Ice Cube, basically saying that the media, government, parents, are blaming gangster rap for every little negative thing that happens.

Yeah, it's complicated. Icarus can express his opinion, even if it is un-PC and hopefully he can appreciate how offensive to an entire group of people he comes off.

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 07, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

Hi xSP.

You know what, your statement is sort of a derailment.

What I mean is when racism is being discussed, whether overt acts or simply statements of implied racial bias, I for one don't have much interest in whether or not the person or persons responsible are "Racists".

This may sound counterintuitive, and if does then maybe some clarification about how we address racism, and even white supremacy itself is needed.

Here's the point, it's not about identifying people as racists. It is not even about bashing people here on the forum who are white and making comments others or at least I feel are racist (And these comments were in fact made).

If you are the person who made such comments and if you feel that others telling you they (The comments) are in fact racist, and this causes you to feel uncomfortable you'll probably start defending your position because you feel you are under attack for no reason, because hey, "I never said I was a racist".

When it comes down to things like holding implicit biases, and even benefiting from white privilege, the question of whether someone here on the forum intentionally posted something bigoted is practically irrelevant.

This is a sensitive subject, and many folks start to interpret any mention of racism as a conflict, and this discussion of "Rap Music and Lesser Mammals" is certainly no different. So if someone gets called out as being racist or at least making a racist comment or statement that others feel has a harmful or hurtful impact, his being a "good person" isn't going to make that comment or statement vanish or less impactful.

Normally when any of us get called out for being racists and/or for making any type of hurtful comment (Whether it racist, misogynist or ableist) we take it as a personal attack on ourselves and our character, and then we simply make the situation all about us, and not about the bigger picture of how we can take responsibility for our own role with regards to dealing with -isms.

So when we we say a particular person "doesn't have a racist bone in their body" it can lead us to overlook the impact of what they've actual said or done and focus instead on their intentions, and as we all know intent isn't magical. So than we try to oversimplify it, and separate ourselves from the real bad guys, because good people can't say or do something wrong.

Maybe we should stop prioritizing our feelings over the pain others deal with everyday with regards to racism and maybe start to address the real and very valid concerns about how comments others deem racist contribute to the oppression they feel and the actual impact these comments have and how it affects them.

At least that is how I've come to look at it, or at least how I've come to understand the situation myself and explain it to my son, because I too have been in positions in my life when I've made comments that others have found hurtful, and it took me time to realize that the best thing I could do was stop and listen as to what is was I explicitly said that was so hurtful to someone else rather than try to defend my position or comment by, "Splaining" my intent or doubling down on my position.


This is a poem by Wendy Cope that I like called, "Differences of Opinion". It has to do more with the issue of 'Man-splaing" rather than racism, but it came to mind while I was writing the above post so I thought it might be fitting here as well.

"HE TELLS HER"

He tells her that the earth is flat...
He knows the facts, and that is that.
In altercations fierce and long
She tries her best to prove him wrong.
But he has learned to argue well.
He calls her arguments unsound
And often asks her not to yell.
She cannot win. He stand his ground.

The planet goes on being round.


PS. Bossa Nova Rules!

edited 1x to correct some of my horrendous grammar.

I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.

The fact that it is only rap subject to this is pretty glaring. And it's never "I hate rap and when I pass through this stretch of road all the radio stations except for three rap channels go out and my CD player is busted and it sucks", or "I hate rap and my buddy loves it and has been subjecting me to it for the past 3 hours of his house party but if I leave I look like a dick", or whatever. It's a bunch of thinly veiled bullshit reasons that don't stand up to scrutiny, that for some reason bug someone so much they need to start a topic to complain about it competely unprovoked.

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.

(https://media.tenor.co/images/f82574fa9c59198237201ee14c45b272/tenor.gif)

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
The fact that it is only rap subject to this is pretty glaring. And it's never "I hate rap and when I pass through this stretch of road all the radio stations except for three rap channels go out and my CD player is busted and it sucks", or "I hate rap and my buddy loves it and has been subjecting me to it for the past 3 hours of his house party but if I leave I look like a dick", or whatever. It's a bunch of thinly veiled bullshit reasons that don't stand up to scrutiny, that for some reason bug someone so much they need to start a topic to complain about it competely unprovoked.

True.

This topic has made me realize so many things. But the one that impressed me the most was how the USA racism compares to the rest of the world. This is the first time that I've been able to give my point of view on this topic, here. To have a British hate rap. To have an American say that those who play rap music loud in their cars are lesser mammals...and ask, "Why are all those God damned motherfucking, cunt, insensitive mongrels saying so many goddammed motherfucking bad words?" ...was all the motivation I needed to say, "enough!"

Oh, and one more thing, before I take a break...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/tIu8lkskhcMcE/giphy.gif)
For those of you, who are poetically impaired, this is what this .gif means...

Still I Rise
Maya Angelou, 1928 - 2014

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops,
Weakened by my soulful cries?

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own backyard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

What do you mean "Why is The Asmo beset with gloom?"

He's The Asmo. He IS gloom.  :???:

Quotehttp://beatlessongwriting.blogspot.com.au/2016/04/under-influence-douglas-adams.html
I didn't know it was art then, of course. I only knew that the Beatles were the most exciting thing in the universe. It wasn't always an easy view to live with. First you had to fight the Stones fans, which was tricky because they fought dirty and had their knuckles nearer the ground. Then you had to fight the grownups, parents and teachers who said that you were wasting your time and pocket money on rubbish that you would have forgotten by next week.

Douglas is calling me a knuckle dragger, but I liked the Beatles too so maybe only one side drags.  That's no comfort though, I don't want to be lop sided... 
Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it. Music/noise elicits emotional responses; it's pretty basic stuff really.
I think it was a big mistake sending voyager off with some committees' selection of music.  The aliens aren't going to like it, they'll probably call us inferior mammals and send a destructor fleet, I would.
Young males (amongst other genders) make music that is confronting to others, particularly older people.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if those young rascals enjoy outraging their elders.  An old guy, and Icarus is OLD, calls people of indeterminate race inferior mammals, I wouldn't censor him for it.  I'm not a member of the thought police though, they have ways of knowing his mind better than he does.  He always seems extremely polite, a proper gentleman some might say but that kind of stuff makes me suspicious. 

Quote from: Kekerusey on October 04, 2016, 03:24:33 PM
If there aren't lesser mammals, why did God invent the French, Australians and Chavs?

Keke

OH NO! I've just been racially vilified!!!
They were right, this is a racist thread.
Ye OK the French but what have we or the Chavoslovakians done?
It's our rugged good looks and vigour evoking unconscious primal fears we'll take your woman away again isn't it. I suppose I can empathise if not truly understand that.

Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 08, 2016, 07:17:51 AM

Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it.

This is true.  Even tho I'd always loved classical music, until I was 19 I hated opera -- it was just a lot of people screeching in a foreign language to me.  And then I heard Placido Domingo singing Samson in Samson et Delilah and all that changed.  Sometimes that's all it takes to change a mind -- just one singer or one song you hear that you happen to like.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.motortrend.com%2F_siteconfigs%2F_global%2Fimages%2Fcommunity%2Fbbcode%2Ficon_quote.gif&hash=7e397439145e530551380cd19bacaedf98bb1cd5) Bad Penny II:
Music a person isn't accustomed to will probably sound terrible to them, they are likely to say unkind things about it.

I listen to just about everything. My collection ranges from crooners like Sinatra to Slayer. However, I do not care for country. I despise the radio gaga bullshit, and as already stated, I absolutely abhor rap, with every fiber of my being!

Quote from: Bruno de la Pole on October 07, 2016, 10:52:10 PM

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 07, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
My problem with the assumption that people who dislike rap are racist, even if subtly, is that it does generalise that idea to an entire category of people (those who don't like rap). I've read the thread and it did give me the impression that there is an underlying assumption that if you hate rap, then you hate everything young urban blacks stand for.   

Can someone point me to a post in this thread where somebody actually said that they are in fact racist? I don't think you can, because nobody said it, yet people are assuming things that are probably misplaced. If there is a failure of communication here then it can go both ways...

Hi xSP.

You know what, your statement is sort of a derailment.

What I mean is when racism is being discussed, whether overt acts or simply statements of implied racial bias, I for one don't have much interest in whether or not the person or persons responsible are "Racists".

This may sound counterintuitive, and if does then maybe some clarification about how we address racism, and even white supremacy itself is needed.

Here's the point, it's not about identifying people as racists. It is not even about bashing people here on the forum who are white and making comments others or at least I feel are racist (And these comments were in fact made).

If you are the person who made such comments and if you feel that others telling you they (The comments) are in fact racist, and this causes you to feel uncomfortable you'll probably start defending your position because you feel you are under attack for no reason, because hey, "I never said I was a racist".

When it comes down to things like holding implicit biases, and even benefiting from white privilege, the question of whether someone here on the forum intentionally posted something bigoted is practically irrelevant.

This is a sensitive subject, and many folks start to interpret any mention of racism as a conflict, and this discussion of "Rap Music and Lesser Mammals" is certainly no different. So if someone gets called out as being racist or at least making a racist comment or statement that others feel has a harmful or hurtful impact, his being a "good person" isn't going to make that comment or statement vanish or less impactful.

Normally when any of us get called out for being racists and/or for making any type of hurtful comment (Whether it racist, misogynist or ableist) we take it as a personal attack on ourselves and our character, and then we simply make the situation all about us, and not about the bigger picture of how we can take responsibility for our own role with regards to dealing with -isms.

So when we we say a particular person "doesn't have a racist bone in their body" it can lead us to overlook the impact of what they've actual said or done and focus instead on their intentions, and as we all know intent isn't magical. So than we try to oversimplify it, and separate ourselves from the real bad guys, because good people can't say or do something wrong.

Maybe we should stop prioritizing our feelings over the pain others deal with everyday with regards to racism and maybe start to address the real and very valid concerns about how comments others deem racist contribute to the oppression they feel and the actual impact these comments have and how it affects them.

At least that is how I've come to look at it, or at least how I've come to understand the situation myself and explain it to my son, because I too have been in positions in my life when I've made comments that others have found hurtful, and it took me time to realize that the best thing I could do was stop and listen as to what is was I explicitly said that was so hurtful to someone else rather than try to defend my position or comment by, "Splaining" my intent or doubling down on my position.


This is a poem by Wendy Cope that I like called, "Differences of Opinion". It has to do more with the issue of 'Man-splaing" rather than racism, but it came to mind while I was writing the above post so I thought it might be fitting here as well.

"HE TELLS HER"

He tells her that the earth is flat...
He knows the facts, and that is that.
In altercations fierce and long
She tries her best to prove him wrong.
But he has learned to argue well.
He calls her arguments unsound
And often asks her not to yell.
She cannot win. He stand his ground.

The planet goes on being round.


PS. Bossa Nova Rules!

edited 1x to correct some of my horrendous grammar.

Thank you for your reply, Bruno. It really is good to see your posts here again. :smilenod:

I didn't mean for my comment to be a derailment, what I intended with it was to point out that there are things being implied in this thread that were not explicitly said, and if such value is placed on things being said with every letter, then it is unfair to expect that people with different views adhere to that while you (general you) don't. I don't expect a racist to come out and own the label, but that wasn't really the point.

But anyways, this has been enlightening.

PS. I'm weird, I know. Imagine hating bossa nova in Brazil!  ;)

Quote from: Pasta Chick on October 08, 2016, 12:28:29 AM
I think then entire subject of "hating rap doesn't make you racist" is a misdirect. Obviously not; Everyone has musical preferences. The argument here is that posting topics online to justify your hate of rap with others who hate rap is generally about systemic racial bias that constitutes racism.

To be honest, I wasn't aware that rap was so strongly associated with black culture in the USA, with such implications.       

As a person of a people that have been insulted in this thread I forgive the trespasses, I hope you learn though.
I don't know of anyone else here whose been  personally wronged  besides Scissorlegs who is somewhat French.

Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 08, 2016, 03:40:24 PM
As a person of a people that have been insulted in this thread I forgive the trespasses, I hope you learn though.
I don't know of anyone else here whose been  personally wronged  besides Scissorlegs who is somewhat French.

Our beloved pudding/spider/robot/penny . . . hasn't been around lately....

I'm glad to see you again.  :)

If it were a matter of only being offended, it wouldn't be so bad, but n the USA, racism is a matter of life and death. Police killing civilians...civilians killing police...civilian killing civilian.

Yeah we like to wield guns. And when one goes off, we blame the individual, instead of the surrounding situations we helped create. Like systemic issues where blacks and latinos still mostly live in the worst possible places in the country because of segregation and racist housing agendas from the "best generation". Racial profiling is still a thing because of Stop and Frisk. (Which happens to be a form of legal harassment).

Another thing that concerns me is the inherent weaknesses in the mentality of human being's and how people's testimony is the highest form of evidence in the courts, and even higher if you're a cop. Human beings are flawed, the phrase "nobody's perfect" comes to mind, yet cops get some sort of special status in society.

Even without risk of being directly killed, systemic prejudice is still a major problem and needs to be called out. And that goes for all of them, not just racism. I would think this would be blantantly obviously on an atheist forum, at least on the US end, where polls show that a majority of Americans are more comfortable with literally any other minority group holding political office than atheists. And not by a small margin. (But obviously rich old Christian white men are most popular).

That shit matters. Micro aggressions are, again, well documented and it's very well known that they are extremely harmful.

Hating someone because they are different, makes you a dick!

Quote from: No one on October 09, 2016, 04:04:11 PM
Hating someone because they are different, makes you a dick!

No, that's pretty much the only reason for hate, some of which is valid enough.

I don't have a single rap tune on my play list. I don't enjoy rap.

Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
I don't have a single rap tune on my play list. I don't enjoy rap.

I don't even have a cell phone, and if I did, I wouldn't know how to create a playlist... :shifty: ...so embarrassing.

Anyways...

xSilverPhinx said:
"To be honest, I wasn't aware that rap was so strongly associated with black culture in the USA, with such implications."
Looking at it from outside of the USA, were you aware of this?

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.motortrend.com%2F_siteconfigs%2F_global%2Fimages%2Fcommunity%2Fbbcode%2Ficon_quote.gif&hash=7e397439145e530551380cd19bacaedf98bb1cd5) No one:
Hating someone because they are different, makes you a dick!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.motortrend.com%2F_siteconfigs%2F_global%2Fimages%2Fcommunity%2Fbbcode%2Ficon_quote.gif&hash=7e397439145e530551380cd19bacaedf98bb1cd5) Asmodean:
No, that's pretty much the only reason for hate, some of which is valid enough

I don't hate anyone for being different than me, you're supposed to be. I hate people, flat out!

Quote from: Asmodean on October 08, 2016, 07:11:48 AM
What do you mean "Why is The Asmo beset with gloom?"

He's The Asmo. He IS gloom.  :???:

Hey, Asmito, you've been on my mind since yesterday hommie...

Check it out...

My 5-year-old son learned the song, Four Hugs A Day, by Charlotte Diamond, when he was in preschool. It goes like this:
Four Hugs a Day, that's the minimum
Four Hugs a Day, not the maximum
Four Hugs a Day, that's the minimum
Four Hugs a Day, not the maximum

Yesterday I hugged him and sang the song, and he said to me...
"Mom, four hugs a day, is the MAXIMUM!"
I did this, inside:
"Asmo!!!! He has done this!!! Why!!!???"  :grrr:

If I maybe, sorta, kinda, offended someone here with my words, and this is my punishment for it, then I accept it. 

:felix:
My child is not a hugger.

Quote from: No one on October 09, 2016, 06:21:38 PM
I don't hate anyone for being different than me, you're supposed to be. I hate people, flat out!

Yes, that's good and well. However, what you said was that hating people for being different makes you a dick. Why else would you hate a person, unless you also happen to hate yourself?

I'll give you a slightly extreme, yet highly illustrative example; it's not socially unacceptable to hate terrorists. Some of them may well be the same sex as you, have the same education... Possibly even the same goals and dreams. Except that they are terrorists, which makes them different from you and you hate them for it. It doesn't always make you a dick to hate that, which is different.

(Edited example to remove the intellectual exercise of following the implied causal links -Asmo)

Quote from: Magdalena on October 10, 2016, 01:05:20 AM
***
Yesterday I hugged him and sang the song, and he said to me...
"Mom, four hugs a day, is the MAXIMUM!"
I did this, inside:
"Asmo!!!! He has done this!!! Why!!!???"  :grrr:

If I maybe, sorta, kinda, offended someone here with my words, and this is my punishment for it, then I accept it. 

:felix:
My child is not a hugger.

Yes, yes... Blame El Asmojito!  >:(

I mean... All He did was maybe encourage a decrease in the amount of hugging by suggesting - in passing - a new lifetime hug maximum which may have gotten misinterpreted by those not well versed in His Divine Verses to become a mandated daily hug amount. No more, no less. And did He ever say anything about not accepting less? Hm?! HM?!  >:( He would be grumpily pleased with less.  >:(

*muttering*

I'm not a hugger either, although I do know people (of both sexes, it must be added in the year of The Asmo 2016, so as not to conjure up images of women only in the readers' minds) who are. Some have out-grown it though, but I do have friends and acquaintances who seek physical contact. Some of them are exempt from my strictly enforced private zone rules, others... Make for some awkward moments every now and then, but they don't seem to care. Good for them, I say.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.motortrend.com%2F_siteconfigs%2F_global%2Fimages%2Fcommunity%2Fbbcode%2Ficon_quote.gif&hash=7e397439145e530551380cd19bacaedf98bb1cd5) No one:
I don't hate anyone for being different than me, you're supposed to be. I hate people, flat out!

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.motortrend.com%2F_siteconfigs%2F_global%2Fimages%2Fcommunity%2Fbbcode%2Ficon_quote.gif&hash=7e397439145e530551380cd19bacaedf98bb1cd5) Asmodean:
Yes, that's good and well. However, what you said was that hating people for being different makes you a dick. Why else would you hate a person, unless you also happen to hate yourself?

I'll give you a slightly extreme, yet highly illustrative example; it's not socially unacceptable to hate terrorists. Some of them may well be the same sex as you, have the same education... Possibly even the same goals and dreams. Except that they are terrorists, which makes them different from you and you hate them for it. It doesn't always make you a dick to hate that, which is different.

I think you are looking far to deep and being way too literal. When I talk about hating people for being different than yourself, I am referring to what people have no control over. You have no control over what skin color you are born with. You have no control over where you are born. You have no control over what sex you are born. You have no control over what sex you attracted to. So yes, if you hate someone simply because they have darker skin than you, you are a dick. If you're a dude and you hate dudes that like other dudes, you are a dick. If you hate people and would even kill them because their religious beliefs are not the same as yours' you are a dick amongst dicks! Terrorists, are a rare and extreme breed of dick! My hatred for the terrorist (of any kind) is not their lopsided, misguided view, but their actions. Anyone is free to believe whatever they want no matter how mindless, vulgar, or barbaric it may be. I don't hate you for what you think, I hate you for what you are, a human.

As I have said, I hate people in general. I fucking hate the human being, they are truly awful creatures. They make me sick. I hate people, every last mother fucking one of them! I hate myself, most of all!

Quote from: No one on October 10, 2016, 11:44:07 AM
I think you are looking far to deep and being way too literal.

It's a character flaw. One among many, but a prominent one. If you think that that's what I'm doing, then you are usually correct.

QuoteWhen I talk about hating people for being different than yourself, I am referring to what people have no control over.

Ah, yes! The division of people into "us" and "them" based on genetic traits... It works, but not so well when it's informed solely by ignorance. I'm with you on that one.

Quote
As I have said, I hate people in general. I fucking hate the human being, they are truly awful creatures. They make me sick. I hate people, every last mother fucking one of them! I hate myself, most of all!

Color me fascinated. I think I may well be incapable of experiencing hate, as it is too strong an emotion for me to process, but in others, I find it curious.