Happy Atheist Forum

General => Philosophy => Topic started by: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:48:50 AM

Title: Moral puzzle
Post by: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:48:50 AM
My wife does a lot of jigsaw puzzles.  All too often there is a piece missing.  Now when she's completed the puzzle all except the one piece, can she claim to have finished it?  If she found the piece she could certainly put it in without further thought, so the mental work is all done.

But can she claim to have completed the task?
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Bad Penny II on June 23, 2018, 10:03:23 AM
She can make the claim to have done so but I will reject it because she hasn't.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Dave on June 23, 2018, 11:27:49 AM
I think she can claim to have completed it within the bounds of possibility.

Intervention by one skilled in the arcane arts of missing jigsaw piece reproduction might be called for.

However, if she lost the piece by some fault of her own the ethical complexion has changed if not the moral one . . .
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 23, 2018, 02:12:30 PM
I guess the answer to that question might vary depending on whether the one giving the answer has OCD or not. :notsure:

Maybe if the puzzle were abstract then there would be no problem with the missing piece, as it's a logical conclusion. In the concrete realm, however, it cannot be said to be complete as it is clearly missing a piece. 

I think there's room for two answers. :grin: Just how gray is this missing piece?
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: hermes2015 on June 23, 2018, 02:18:20 PM
I think the question can only be answered if there is agreement on a definition of the word "completed". Once it is understood what "completed" means, it will be easy to decide whether or not she complies.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Icarus on June 24, 2018, 12:48:47 AM
It is certainly completed within the bounds of possibility.  Hats off to Mrs. OG
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 24, 2018, 06:38:40 PM
Yes, she can claim completion, and I would accept her claim. She placed every available piece correctly, searched for he missing piece, but could not find it. What more could she do. Having exhausted the physical possibilities, she cannot be required morally or ethically to do more.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Dragonia on June 24, 2018, 06:39:31 PM
I will only speak to my personal feelings.
"Complete" to me, in this case, means "wholly finished, all put together again, no spaces missing".
Having had this happen to me many times, I would argue that it is most certainly NOT complete!
Makes me darn tootin' mad is what it does!
And the more pieces it's supposed to have, the crazier it makes me!
My kids think it's funny, a cute trick, to steal a piece and hide it, then when I finish the puzzle and start scouring under the table and behind chairs, getting myself all worked up, they triumphantly produce the piece, so they can say they "finished it".
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Dave on June 24, 2018, 07:06:44 PM
I will only speak to my personal feelings.
"Complete" to me, in this case, means "wholly finished, all put together again, no spaces missing".
Having had this happen to me many times, I would argue that it is most certainly NOT complete!
Makes me darn tootin' mad is what it does!
And the more pieces it's supposed to have, the crazier it makes me!
My kids think it's funny, a cute trick, to steal a piece and hide it, then when I finish the puzzle and start scouring under the table and behind chairs, getting myself all worked up, they triumphantly produce the piece, so they can say they "finished it".

Interesting you say, "...no spaces missing." Dragonia, rather than, "...no pieces missing." Philosophically that implies that a completed puzzle is one comprised entirely of "spaces," one that has no "pieces."
 :geezersay:

(I'll get me coat shall I?)
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Dragonia on June 24, 2018, 07:56:59 PM
Ugh.... this is why I'm not good at philosophy. Too many nuances, too many word loops.
I see what you're saying...after concentrating for a minute.
Yes, I should have said....what I meant to say, was "No Missing Pieces".
 :thoughtful:
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Dave on June 24, 2018, 09:52:36 PM
Ugh.... this is why I'm not good at philosophy. Too many nuances, too many word loops.
I see what you're saying...after concentrating for a minute.
Yes, I should have said....what I meant to say, was "No Missing Pieces".
 :thoughtful:

 :grin:

I know it was merely a slip, Dragonia, just pulling your chain a little!

Please don't flame me  :haironfire:
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Essie Mae on June 24, 2018, 11:58:00 PM
Depends where the missing piece belongs; if it’s in the middle somewhere, it’s not finished, but if it’s on the periphery then maybe the overall sense of the picture is not affected and it’s finished to all intents and purposes. Give. The number of previous entertaining and intelligent responses, we can say that the missing piece is of very great importance to HAFers and a worthy subject for philosophical discourse. ;)
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Icarus on June 26, 2018, 11:45:52 PM
Hmmm. One piece missing?  I say the puzzle is complete because if the missing piece is found, a lab rat could put into its proper place  Mrs OG has done all the difficult work and there is no more to challenge ones skill, reasoning, or determination.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Davin on June 27, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Hmmm. One piece missing?  I say the puzzle is complete because if the missing piece is found, a lab rat could put into its proper place  Mrs OG has done all the difficult work and there is no more to challenge ones skill, reasoning, or determination.
A missing piece makes solving the puzzle even more difficult. The more missing pieces the harder it is to finish the rest. In fact, with all the pieces missing it's impossible.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: Bad Penny II on June 27, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
You could count the pieces before you start, define the challenge.
In your you laxness you obviously haven't, I've no sympathy at all.
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: billy rubin on October 22, 2019, 01:08:12 PM
please forgive me reviving this, but its super interesting.

if theres a missing puzzle piece out of the box, the nature of the completed puzzle has changed. if the piece is unrecoverable, the puzzle is now complete, but with a hole in it.

conjecturing a theoretically different task--a puzzle with no holez-- means altering the nature of the puzzle from that which exists in the real world to a theoretical ideal form that it imitates but which does not actually exist.

which is the real puzzle? the one with or the one without the missing piece?
Title: Re: Moral puzzle
Post by: No one on October 22, 2019, 08:17:40 PM
Only if she gives me $1,000,000,000 each time she makes this claim.