Happy Atheist Forum

Religion => Religion => Topic started by: Recusant on February 13, 2020, 06:19:19 PM

Title: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Recusant on February 13, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
'Cause, you know, forgiveness is a Christian trait, OK?

"'The tongue is a fire': Southern Baptist church fractures over secrets and spiritual abuse" | USA Today (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/02/13/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-pastors-history-divided-church/4586698002/)

QuoteOn a Sunday morning in late 2017, Oakwood Baptist Church pastor Donald Foose stood before a congregation that had been blindsided by the sudden departure of their previous head pastor.

Foose offered no answers to their lingering questions. Instead, his voice booming through the sparse sanctuary, he preached about the destructive power of gossip.

"The tongue is a fire," Foose declared, reading from the Letter of James. He held up a piece of paper with his own name and the name of the church on it. With his other hand, he struck a match – and lit the paper ablaze.

"Look what that little fire did," he said once the sheet had burned. "It destroyed me. It destroyed the church. It destroyed the unity of the church. And I'm amazed that I didn't catch the place on fire."

Within six months that sermon would seem like an attempt to smother questions leading straight to Foose's disturbing past. The details emerged regardless.

In 2000, Foose was convicted and jailed for molesting an underage relative. He resigned from his role as principal of a Christian school, and Pennsylvania's Department of Education stripped him of his teaching license, deeming him "a danger to the health, safety and welfare of students." Under state law, Foose can't even drive a school bus, and were he convicted after 2012 he would have been required by law to register as a sex offender.

But Foose still became a pastor at Oakwood, then superintendent of the Oakwood Baptist Day School. Church leaders who were aware of his past concealed it from the congregation.

The truth – exposed in 2018 after a husband and wife at the church discovered Foose's record – fractured the tightknit, devout community of roughly 100 members. Pastors resigned, attendance fell, friendships dissolved and faith was tested. In interviews with more than a dozen current and former congregants, a portrait emerged of church leaders compounding Foose's betrayal by twisting scripture and exploiting the concept of forgiveness to stifle questions about how the situation had been handled.

Foose resigned from Oakwood in May 2018. Soon after, the beloved pastor who had left Oakwood months before, Bob Conrad, acknowledged in a five-page letter to his former church that he and other leaders had known Foose could not pass a background check. Foose claimed to have been falsely accused, Conrad wrote, and church leaders took him at his word, failing to prevent him from having access to children even as school employees complained about his overly familiar behavior with the students.

"I pray," Conrad wrote, "that you will find it in your hearts to forgive me for my lack in leadership and judgment."

Foose, 69, did not respond to multiple interview requests for this story. A police investigation would ultimately find no evidence that Foose had harmed children at Oakwood. USA TODAY confirmed that since leaving Oakwood, Foose has preached in at least two other Baptist churches, in Pennsylvania and Virginia, where the congregants were unaware of his 2000 conviction.

The revelations at Oakwood occurred as the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest protestant denomination in the country with 15 million members, faced a crisis over sexual abuse that echoes the scandal in the Catholic Church. After a joint investigation by the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php) last year documented abuse in Southern Baptist churches spanning 20 years and 700 victims, SBC leaders faulted a "culture of casual indifference to predatory sexual behavior."

[Continues . . . (https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/02/13/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-pastors-history-divided-church/4586698002/)]
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Dark Lightning on February 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
What gets my goat is the willingness of people to close their eyes to the truth, which endangers more children. I'd rat out the SOB in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Recusant on February 13, 2020, 09:17:52 PM
I think it's just another manifestation of the good ol' boy network. I'm not referring to the South here, but to an in-group mindset which you can see operating in police forces, in the Catholic church, and elsewhere. He's "one of us" and that's what really matters, not what some other people have said about him, including in this case, a criminal court.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Kusa on February 14, 2020, 05:24:29 AM
Quote from: Dark Lightning on February 13, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
What gets my goat is the willingness of people to close their eyes to the truth, which endangers more children. I'd rat out the SOB in a heartbeat.

Me too.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: billy rubin on February 14, 2020, 11:04:52 AM
my family in oklahoma are all card carrying southern baptists. the drama they tell me about is really entertaining. twice the priezt in the small town i waz born in has ztepped up to the pulpit, announced his resignation, and walked out the door. (different priezts).

one memorable day the deacon was caught screwing the choir leader up in the choir loft.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Tank on February 14, 2020, 07:01:49 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on February 14, 2020, 11:04:52 AM
my family in oklahoma are all card carrying southern baptists. the drama they tell me about is really entertaining. twice the priezt in the small town i waz born in has ztepped up to the pulpit, announced his resignation, and walked out the door. (different priezts).

one memorable day the deacon was caught screwing the choir leader up in the choir loft.

Hetero or homosexual?
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: billy rubin on February 14, 2020, 10:01:17 PM
you know, since i heard it from my 90 year old aunt, i'm sure it was hetero.

if it had been homosexual, she wouldn't have ever mentioned it.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Inertialmass on February 16, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on February 14, 2020, 11:04:52 AM
my family in oklahoma are all card carrying southern baptists. the drama they tell...


That's funny.  On the other Forums when you are play-acting the role of active, bible-quoting, Inward Light-glowing Conservative Quaker, you braggadociate that the family back yonder in Oklahoma wuz all steadfast lifelong atheists

I guess when all's said and done, truth don't really matter on anonymous Internet Forums?  We all just be Okie sockpuppets to nihilism anyhow.   :(


Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Davin on February 17, 2020, 04:02:11 PM
Well that sounds like drama.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Bluenose on February 17, 2020, 11:43:46 PM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 16, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on February 14, 2020, 11:04:52 AM
my family in oklahoma are all card carrying southern baptists. the drama they tell...


That's funny.  On the other Forums when you are play-acting the role of active, bible-quoting, Inward Light-glowing Conservative Quaker, you braggadociate that the family back yonder in Oklahoma wuz all steadfast lifelong atheists

I guess when all's said and done, truth don't really matter on anonymous Internet Forums?  We all just be Okie sockpuppets to nihilism anyhow.   :(

Hmm...  That post explains a lot.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Magdalena on February 18, 2020, 12:50:11 AM
Quote from: Davin on February 17, 2020, 04:02:11 PM
Well that sounds like drama.
It does. I don't like it.

~You guys should take your dirty laundry and wash it over there.

It reminds me of when Nam called me an asshole and went to talk about me on another forum.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Davin on February 18, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on February 18, 2020, 12:50:11 AM
Quote from: Davin on February 17, 2020, 04:02:11 PM
Well that sounds like drama.
It does. I don't like it.

~You guys should take your dirty laundry and wash it over there.

It reminds me of when Nam called me an asshole and went to talk about me on another forum.
It's happened to me before as well. At least in this case the person is directly addressing the person in question.

I think there is a valid reason to show if a person is on the level or not if they have a bad history on other forums. In this case though, it doesn't feel right, it only feels like drama. I don't think we need that here.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Would you feel better if I or others who have already had these same discussions elsewhere with "billy rubin" began actively participating right here?

Naaaah.

Know why?

Because Billy, right here, right now, is parroting the very arguments which we presented to him a few months ago!  This little fuker is plagiarizing my own rhetorical devices!!!  Reading this stenography now is a totally otherworldly, surreal experience, Billy's invented biographical details becoming inverted here at HAF only in order to service the borrowed polemical point.  Funny ain't it that Billy's Okie parents could change their worldviews five or six decades after they're departed this world right in concert with Billy's changing worldviews, no?

But hey, don't let us stop you from playing along.  Happy disbelieving!!!

Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Davin on February 18, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
Don't assume that because I don't like the dramatic way you're presenting things, means that I trust or believe billy rubin. I can't even be sure you're not a puppet of them trying to cause drama and fighting on the forum. A lone troll is tollerable, what we don't want is a forum of people fighting and being assholes to each other.

It might help if you addressed the plagiarism where it arises by making well sourced and detailed points.

You may not have seen my discussions with them, but billy rubin doesn't like the way I discuss things.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 05:59:30 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
...You may not have seen my discussions with them, but billy rubin doesn't like the way I discuss things.

I've very much noticed Kev kev billy the oilfield sand blender tech snip at your daring insolence. 

Then I very much noticed an HA Mod snip at you, Davin, for telling it like it is.  Right then and there I decided the thrust of this Forum appears to be not honesty but decorum.  Pffffft.

Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Magdalena on February 18, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on February 18, 2020, 12:50:11 AM
Quote from: Davin on February 17, 2020, 04:02:11 PM
Well that sounds like drama.
It does. I don't like it.

~You guys should take your dirty laundry and wash it over there.

It reminds me of when Nam called me an asshole and went to talk about me on another forum.
It's happened to me before as well. At least, in this case, the person is directly addressing the person in question.

Yes, the person is directly addressing the person in question, but the person in question is totally ignoring them. The person in question has not responded to the laughs or the accusations. From far away, it looks as if it was a bad breakup and the person who was dumped can't let go.  :shrug:

Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
I think there is a valid reason to show if a person is on the level or not if they have a bad history on other forums. In this case though, it doesn't feel right, it only feels like drama. I don't think we need that here.
People with  a bad history on other forums show who they are everywhere they go, they don't need an introduction. In this case, I agree with you, it doesn't feel right, it only feels like drama, but drama coming only from the one addressing the person in question. We don't need it. It looks ugly.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Davin on February 18, 2020, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 05:59:30 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
...You may not have seen my discussions with them, but billy rubin doesn't like the way I discuss things.

I've very much noticed Kev kev billy the oilfield sand blender tech snip at your daring insolence. 

Then I very much noticed an HA Mod snip at you, Davin, for telling it like it is.  Right then and there I decided the thrust of this Forum appears to be not honesty but decorum.  Pffffft.



It's part of the job of a mod to tell us when we go too far. I don't always agree, but I do agree that sometimes I go too far.

We can value both honesty and decorum. You're not being snipped at by me here, I'm only giving my opinion of what is going on as I see it.

If what you say is true, it's not the first time I've seen something like it. On one forum a person would take the role of defending a position, and another they would play the role of doing the opposite. Then after one or two posts, they would copy and paste posts of the users on either forum, changing a little here and there to stir the shit, as if it was coming from them. That was a bit more creative. Even in that case I still think it's important to maintain decorum.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Tank on February 18, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Would you feel better if I or others who have already had these same discussions elsewhere with "billy rubin" began actively participating right here?

Naaaah.

Know why?

Because Billy, right here, right now, is parroting the very arguments which we presented to him a few months ago!  This little fuker is plagiarizing my own rhetorical devices!!!  Reading this stenography now is a totally otherworldly, surreal experience, Billy's invented biographical details becoming inverted here at HAF only in order to service the borrowed polemical point.  Funny ain't it that Billy's Okie parents could change their worldviews five or six decades after they're departed this world right in concert with Billy's changing worldviews, no?

But hey, don't let us stop you from playing along.  Happy disbelieving!!!

Inertialmass

The highlighted comment is in direct contravention to the forum rules. Consider this a gentle reminder. Don't behave like this again please.

Tank
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Tank on February 18, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
Don't assume that because I don't like the dramatic way you're presenting things, means that I trust or believe billy rubin. I can't even be sure you're not a puppet of them trying to cause drama and fighting on the forum. A lone troll is tollerable, what we don't want is a forum of people fighting and being assholes to each other.

It might help if you addressed the plagiarism where it arises by making well sourced and detailed points.

You may not have seen my discussions with them, but billy rubin doesn't like the way I discuss things.

Spot on.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: xSilverPhinx on February 18, 2020, 09:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tank on February 18, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Davin on February 18, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
Don't assume that because I don't like the dramatic way you're presenting things, means that I trust or believe billy rubin. I can't even be sure you're not a puppet of them trying to cause drama and fighting on the forum. A lone troll is tollerable, what we don't want is a forum of people fighting and being assholes to each other.

It might help if you addressed the plagiarism where it arises by making well sourced and detailed points.

You may not have seen my discussions with them, but billy rubin doesn't like the way I discuss things.

Spot on.

:this:

It's a little unsettling when someone follows a person here in order to bring a toxic presence or harass another member. It's stalkerish and quite frankly, makes it seem like they have way too much time on their hands. I may not agree with billy rubin on many things but so far he has followed the forum rules and has ignored the obvious jabs. I don't know what the intention behind this harassment is, but we don't gang up on a member based on rumour or hearsay.

With that said, both honesty and decorum are important, and even in the event of a member not being honest decorum is still important. Calling someone "a little fuker" won't get you anywhere.   

So, why don't we just chill a little?
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
This is THE most boring online "atheist" forum that ever existed.  After Tank dizzily told me "I.... can't.... resist...  A planet sized asteroid would be a planet," I found myself departing the vacuousness for 7 1/2 years.  Vacation pictures?  Teen angst, meaninglessness and postpubescent nihilism in 5000 words???  More like watching canasta at the Senior Center. 

Dudes and dudettes, admit you want the drama.  You need the drama.  Admit you love the chance to each spout off your oh so eloquent self-righteousness.  Lastly, admit that at some subconscious level you know very well Billy/Kev's a total bullshitter but anything's better than total boredom, eh?

Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: xSilverPhinx on February 18, 2020, 10:49:38 PM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
This is THE most boring online "atheist" forum that ever existed.  After Tank dizzily told me "I.... can't.... resist...  A planet sized asteroid would be a planet," I found myself departing the vacuousness for 7 1/2 years.  Vacation pictures?  Teen angst, meaninglessness and postpubescent nihilism in 5000 words???  More like watching canasta at the Senior Center. 

Dudes and dudettes, admit you want the drama.  You need the drama.  Admit you love the chance to each spout off your oh so eloquent self-righteousness.  Lastly, admit that at some subconscious level you know very well Billy/Kev's a total bullshitter but anything's better than total boredom, eh?

What are you even doing here then? Serious question. Don't you have anything better to do?

Trolls bring drama, and in spite of what you may think, we don't need trolls here.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Magdalena on February 18, 2020, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
This is THE most boring online "atheist" forum that ever existed.  After Tank dizzily told me "I.... can't.... resist...  A planet sized asteroid would be a planet," I found myself departing the vacuousness for 7 1/2 years.  Vacation pictures?  Teen angst, meaninglessness and postpubescent nihilism in 5000 words???  More like watching canasta at the Senior Center. 

Dudes and dudettes, admit you want the drama.  You need the drama.  Admit you love the chance to each spout off your oh so eloquent self-righteousness.  Lastly, admit that at some subconscious level you know very well Billy/Kev's a total bullshitter but anything's better than total boredom, eh?
Inertialmass, please, stop it. No one here enjoys your drama, you're acting...

(https://fairyprincessdiaries.files.wordpress.com/2019/10/giphy-6.gif?w=623&h=249)
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Dark Lightning on February 19, 2020, 02:49:52 AM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
This is THE most boring online "atheist" forum that ever existed.  After Tank dizzily told me "I.... can't.... resist...  A planet sized asteroid would be a planet," I found myself departing the vacuousness for 7 1/2 years.  Vacation pictures?  Teen angst, meaninglessness and postpubescent nihilism in 5000 words???  More like watching canasta at the Senior Center. 

Dudes and dudettes, admit you want the drama.  You need the drama.  Admit you love the chance to each spout off your oh so eloquent self-righteousness.  Lastly, admit that at some subconscious level you know very well Billy/Kev's a total bullshitter but anything's better than total boredom, eh?

Not saying that it's true in Billy's case, but once I see disparities in what a person posts, I just generally tend to take their statements with a cube of salt. I see a guy on another couple of sites that has what I would call a "Walter Mitty Complex". The crazy, brave, world-saving things he comes up with having done just gives me huge eye-rolls. Sometimes people just like to tell stories without due regard for the fact that other people might check them up on them. Don't get me wrong, I like people to be honest, maybe even more than most people seem to be able to tolerate. Somebody wants to be bigger than life, they do it on the internet. Reference the other thread where it was mentioned, "The older I get, the better I was!".  ;D

ETA, you say it's "boring", I say that it's a bit of a respite from the shrillness that I see just about everywhere, atheist forum or not. YMMV. It isn't all about shredding people, everywhere on the internet. I wish there were more places like this. I've seen people disagree and work through that disagreement without acrimony. Now that's a concept that could use some spreading around.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Bad Penny II on February 19, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
This is THE most boring online "atheist" forum that ever existed
That sounds subjective to me, I think we should have a poll.

Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
I found myself departing the vacuousness for 7 1/2 years.  Vacation pictures?  Teen angst, meaninglessness and postpubescent nihilism in 5000 words???  More like watching canasta at the Senior Center.   

Why don't they let you play Canasta at the senior centre?

Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
Dudes and dudettes, admit you want the drama.  You need the drama.  Admit you love the chance to each spout off your oh so eloquent self-righteousness

I don't like rubbish drama which isn't subjective at all, it's what I say it is.

Quote from: Inertialmass on February 18, 2020, 10:42:54 PM
Lastly, admit that at some subconscious level you know very well Billy/Kev's a total bullshitter but anything's better than total boredom, eh?

If he says one truthful thing he isn't a total bullshitter and I'm resigned to not knowing things anyway.
Total boredom?
How can I be totally bored when there's all this engrossing meaninglessness going on?
And you've always got me.
Of course, of course, I've always got you.
I recommend bifurcation to all of the bored out there.

Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Recusant on February 20, 2020, 01:36:25 AM
The smart bet? Which wins, sneering at the bête noire, or sloping off due to boredom? :thoughtful:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Recusant on February 22, 2020, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: Recusant on February 20, 2020, 01:36:25 AM
The smart bet? Which wins, sneering at the bête noire, or sloping off due to boredom? :thoughtful:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.


I think I lost that bet.  :sadnod:
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: xSilverPhinx on February 23, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: Recusant on February 22, 2020, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: Recusant on February 20, 2020, 01:36:25 AM
The smart bet? Which wins, sneering at the bête noire, or sloping off due to boredom? :thoughtful:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.


I think I lost that bet.  :sadnod:

There is always a third option! :grin:
Title: Re: It Ain't Just the Catholics
Post by: Recusant on February 23, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Rather than once again "departing the vacuousness" the person chose to continue to indulge what appears to be somewhat of an obsession. Escalating the contumely, they invited the banning. So sneering at the bête noire but also generally (with relish, and directed at least one other specific target) won out over leaving due to boredom, so yes, I lost the bet. :sad sigh: