Well, is it?
Of course, it isn't, it's one's sexual preference as hardwired into their brain at birth. I didn't choose to be hetero, it just revealed itself over tine. it's the same with homosexuality.
So why do Xians insist that it's a "lifestyle" choice? I can no more choose to be gay than I choose to be a serial killer. Neither is within me. The same is true for Xians yet they insist being gay is a choice that was made and they can help you unmake it with the power of prayer and the guidance of scripture.
Why is homosexuality such a trigger for religious people? Why are they, and by extension their God, so concerned with what you're doing in bed? Isn't it convenient that God is as appalled by all the same things that appall the Xians?
Post 11 of 25
For some it is and for others it isn't. TYhose claiming to be Christians will mostly go by what the bible says, and strongly the New Testament. But, they don't consider that the people who wrote the book were not understanding in the sciences, and in this case, psychology. Imagine trying to explain to an apostle what hormones are. I'm reasonably sure that if they had the understandings we have today they would have a change of opinion.
In my study of this with others like questions came up. For instance- when Armageddon takes place will homosexuals make it through (survive it). A= yes. The event takes place after governments have been ended and people are free to do and become as they want, bringing in the actual end (die off)of the 3rd Generation, which in biblical terms is the actual ending event. Armageddon is the ending of evil people and the others remain. A Homosexual can be a good person just as anyone else. There's a catch---for everyone in that, the remaining will have to have given up recognizing the physical (seen as the carnal mind) as the person, and recognized as the spiritual, or mental. Homosexuals may have a harder time with the idea, depending upon the individual. :) (Not presented as a statement of fact, but an interpretation)
Yes, just like being tall is a choice. Also, much like you choose where to be born.
Louis Sheldon, anti-gay Christian group founder, dies at 85
https://news.yahoo.com/louis-sheldon-anti-gay-christian-225114513.html (https://news.yahoo.com/louis-sheldon-anti-gay-christian-225114513.html)
This quote makes no sense but Sheldon said it.
Quote"As homosexuals continue to make inroads into public schools, more children will be molested and indoctrinated into the world of homosexuality," he once wrote. "Many of them will die in that world."
First, I would acknowledge that some Christian churches have been able to modify their approach to this question. Then . . .
In my opinion, it both is and isn't. It depends on whether you're talking about feelings or actions -- feelings are not chosen, actions always are. I don't think anti-gay Xtians care at all about how gay people feel romantically or sexually as long as we don't ever, in any way, act on it. Even such a minor action as talking about it without condemning it.
In my case, it wasn't a choice, but I cannot answer on behalf of anyone else who identifies as gay. My choice was deciding to come out to family. friends, and colleagues.
It may or may not be the case. It could depend on a person by person basis.
Frankly, I don't care. In my considered opinion it's nobody's business except for the person concerned, so long as no coercion is involved.
I don't get why it should even matter if it's a choice or not.
It shouldn't, but humans are...... well, you know.
Brains do not come with instruction manuals, and most refuse to use it enough for a manual do be of any assistance anyway.
It doesn't matter to me and maybe not the poster of the starting message. It never bothered me until a co-worker was driving me home one night. He took the scenic route and as he did, he started stroking my thigh and eventually moved to my genitalia. He then unzipped my trousers and reached in. As soon as he stopped (stop sign, red light? I don't remember) I jumped out.
He apologized begging me to get in the car. I think he was afraid I would tell our boss on him. Our boss was my father and it was my first job.
I got in and we went home. He parked at the bottom of the driveway and tried to give me a goodnight kiss. I opened the door before he could and got out. I would never ride with him again.
For him, I think it was a choice. He'd always liked girls but kept striking out. Maybe he was bisexual. He went to therapy and I never heard anymore about it. At least he didn't try to get me into a corner in the stock room. Maybe he learned that sexuality is okay as long as it is with a consenting partner.
As for my dad, he never found out unless the co-worker told him. I don't know how my dad would have felt about his son narrowly being molested on some dirt road. He probably would have taking me to have boxing skills or some other thing similar as long as it was American based.
Quote from: No one on June 05, 2020, 01:24:38 AM
It shouldn't, but humans are...... well, you know.
Brains do not come with instruction manuals, and most refuse to use it enough for a manual do be of any assistance anyway.
I keep mine in the glove compartment,
The status of being attracted to the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex is not a choice. Either you are attracted or you are not. All of us make choices (I won't say "freely") about our actions, but I can't make myself become attracted to something that I am not attracted to. I can be attracted to a woman, but chose to act or not act on that attraction. I cannot make myself to be attracted to a man, so I would have no reason to act in that direction. The attraction seems to come from our own makeup (nature/nurture), not from our choices. Or so it seems to me.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 11, 2020, 02:32:43 AM
The status of being attracted to the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex is not a choice. Either you are attracted or you are not. All of us make choices (I won't say "freely") about our actions, but I can't make myself become attracted to something that I am not attracted to. I can be attracted to a woman, but chose to act or not act on that attraction. I cannot make myself to be attracted to a man, so I would have no reason to act in that direction. The attraction seems to come from our own makeup (nature/nurture), not from our choices. Or so it seems to me.
Speaking from the "inside", that just about sums up my stance as well. Whenever someone wants to engage me in a debate on the issue, I start belting out
I Am What I Am, upon which they usually run away screaming.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 04, 2020, 10:59:29 PM
I don't get why it should even matter if it's a choice or not.
It's a religious issue, which doesn't matter in a fairly secular society but in a religious one it becomes overwhelmingly important. Like virginity, another non-issue that is vitally important to the religious. I'm going to guess it has something to do with power and control, but I don't know, didn't understand it even when I was trying to be religious.
Quote from: Sandra Craft on June 11, 2020, 06:01:14 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 04, 2020, 10:59:29 PM
I don't get why it should even matter if it's a choice or not.
It's a religious issue, which doesn't matter in a fairly secular society but in a religious one it becomes overwhelmingly important. Like virginity, another non-issue that is vitally important to the religious. I'm going to guess it has something to do with power and control, but I don't know, didn't understand it even when I was trying to be religious.
It's odd that I don't think it ever crossed my mind back in the seventies and early eighties. Maybe it wasn't a hot issue back then. Outside of the co-worker that I mentioned before I don't think I ever knew it existed. I guess I lived a sheltered life.
It's a stupid is issue. Just like every other issue humans have with other humans, it comes down to their blatant aggressive ignorance!
I guess there are quite a few stupid issues. What I don't get is why people get so grouped about them? Why does it have to be "us versus them"? What did "they" do to cause "us" to hate them? They want to be happy. What's wrong with that? Does the "us" people have so little room in their world that they blatantly push out anyone who isn't like minded?
How does their right to "life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness" make the "us" group so hateful or fearful of anything different?
Most likely these questions have been asked time and again without a good answer.
Because people are arrogant, fearful, ignorant, narcissistic, and most of all, they're stupid.
Some say it's immoral and don't want their children exposed to it, and don't want it taught in schools but rather let that to deal with by parents.
Is it not more immoral to pass sentence of your moral superiority?
Quote from: No one on June 12, 2020, 12:59:46 AM
Is it not more immoral to pass sentence of your moral superiority?
No, each has a right to their own judgement as something be moral or not. Are you referring to me as morally superior, or my moral superiority, or do I consider myself to be morally superior, If so I stated no such claim.
But at the same time, it seems the LGBT and so on don't want anyone to have their own personal choice as to whether homosexuality is moral or not. It is not immoral to pass judgement on others, it merely may be that one be hypocritical.
If it were immoral then a homosexual would also be immoral to pass judgement on someone for their preference. It would apply to each.
I don't think it wise for me to question an others moral superiority, They just might be. Today's morality seems to be quite arbitrary, if so, then there's no such thing as morals.
You said "some say", I was simply replying to that.
Quote from: Old Seer on June 11, 2020, 11:44:48 PM
Some say it's immoral and don't want their children exposed to it, and don't want it taught in schools but rather let that to deal with by parents.
About that.
This is a movie I remember from teen years. I walked out because I thought it was a war movie, but instead the singing started. Being it was a musical I wasn't interested. So, what is this guy singing about, being gay, or his right to be gay. :)
Quote from: Old Seer on June 12, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
This is a movie I remember from teen years. I walked out because I thought it was a war movie, but instead the singing started. Being it was a musical I wasn't interested. So, what is this guy singing about, being gay, or his right to be gay. :)
You're a clever fellow. I'm not going to condescend to you by explaining in baby terms what the song is saying.
Quote from: Recusant on June 12, 2020, 03:59:36 PM
Quote from: Old Seer on June 12, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
This is a movie I remember from teen years. I walked out because I thought it was a war movie, but instead the singing started. Being it was a musical I wasn't interested. So, what is this guy singing about, being gay, or his right to be gay. :)
You're a clever fellow. I'm not going to condescend to you by explaining in baby terms what the song is saying.
Esp. since the song explains itself point blank.
Quote from: Sandra Craft on June 12, 2020, 05:46:51 PMEsp. since the song explains itself point blank.
Yeah. As usual I let my tendency toward prolixity overcome my aspirations to conciseness. A simple "It's self explanatory" would have done. ;)
Quote from: Recusant on June 12, 2020, 03:59:36 PM
Quote from: Old Seer on June 12, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
This is a movie I remember from teen years. I walked out because I thought it was a war movie, but instead the singing started. Being it was a musical I wasn't interested. So, what is this guy singing about, being gay, or his right to be gay. :)
You're a clever fellow. I'm not going to condescend to you by explaining in baby terms what the song is saying.
I'm not gaming here. I presented a (what I understand to be) a legitimate question and that was the intent. I am not all that up on homosexuals problems. This movie apparently is from the 50s. At that age I didn't know anything about gay people and didn't know until I became a US Marine. There weren't any gays around my home town that I know of and no one talked about it. I didn't walk out of the movie because it was a gay movie, I couldn't have even known that. Dougy, Dale, and I left because it was a musical, as stated. FYI I have a relatively high IQ but it doesn't cover homosexuality. And also FYI my IQ is a bit higher then Einstein's so you can make a comparison. Now I suppose you're going to tell me IQs don't mean much. Now, would you please tell me what the man on the left is saying after his first sentence so I can get a better context of what he,s saying. I'm not good at accents which he seems to have so, I can put it together and understand and piece together something logical here.
The musical is not about gay people. The underlying theme in the film, providing dramatic conflict in its plot, is prejudice. The song stands on its own, and its message is clear. The introductory dialog is irrelevant, but I'll make a transcript, just for you. I can't guarantee that it will be exact, because my hearing has never been the best.
The character with the accent: What makes her talk like that? Why do you have this feeling, you and she? I do not believe that it is born in you! I do not believe it!
The singer: It's not born in you. It happens after you're born. . . .
Prejudice based in religion is still prejudice. It isn't due any deference. The people who, because of their religion, have carefully taught their children to feel prejudice toward certain other people don't wish for their teachings to be contradicted by the public schools. At least in the modern western cultures, their religion doesn't give them the authority to dictate what is taught in public schools, any more than a racially prejudiced person can dictate that their child not be taught about tolerance and mutual respect.
Religion is a choice. Skin color, sexual orientation, or where you're born is not!
If you are so narrow minded that you hate those that are different than you, just find an extremely high cliff, and take a dive! This mindset is the root of humanity's idiocy.
I've got news for you buster, I am supposed to be different from you!
Quote from: Recusant on June 12, 2020, 10:18:51 PM
The musical is not about gay people. The underlying theme in the film, providing dramatic conflict in its plot, is prejudice. The song stands on its own, and its message is clear. The introductory dialog is irrelevant, but I'll make a transcript, just for you. I can't guarantee that it will be exact, because my hearing has never been the best.
The character with the accent: What makes her talk like that? Why do you have this feeling, you and she? I do not believe that it is born in you! I do not believe it!
The singer: It's not born in you. It happens after you're born. . . .
Prejudice based in religion is still prejudice. It isn't due any deference. The people who, because of their religion, have carefully taught their children to feel prejudice toward certain other people don't wish for their teachings to be contradicted by the public schools. At least in the modern western cultures, their religion doesn't give them the authority to dictate what is taught in public schools, any more than a racially prejudiced person can dictate that their child not be taught about tolerance and mutual respect.
Well, now there we go. That's why I ask questions. There wasn't enough there for me to understand the presentation. I had to logically deduce that being it was posted on the homosexual thread that it was something to do with that subject.
And, I cannot hear or see any evidence in that video as to whether it's religion or homosexuality as the subject matter. Also, I don't consider myself stupid to try and fool someone that I can see is very intelligent. c
Quote from: No one on June 12, 2020, 10:42:20 PM
Religion is a choice. Skin color, sexual orientation, or where you're born is not!
If you are so narrow minded that you hate those that are different than you, just find an extremely high cliff, and take a dive! This mindset is the root of humanity's idiocy.
I've got news for you buster, I am supposed to be different from you!
Who's Buster?
It's a general term.
I am not singling anyone out, no one has given me reason to. I am simply talking generalities, people who actually have this kind of mindset.
Quote from: Recusant on June 12, 2020, 07:03:24 PM
Quote from: Sandra Craft on June 12, 2020, 05:46:51 PMEsp. since the song explains itself point blank.
Yeah. As usual I let my tendency toward prolixity overcome my aspirations to conciseness.A simple "It's self explanatory" would have done. ;)
Ha! There you go doing it again. ;D
I appreciate somebody at least acknowledging my ponderous attempts at humour. ;D
That might be the academic way of saying brownie points I've ever seen.(https://web.stardock.net/images/smiles/themes/digicons/Grin.png)(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stardock.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fthemes%2Fdigicons%2FGagged.png&hash=9b545d9c6babbe58bf3eb16c42e338f7edf55876)
Quote from: Old Seer on June 12, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
Well, now there we go. That's why I ask questions.
The thing of it is, you didn't need to ask the question, just listen to the song. It explains itself point blank. That's what caused the suspicion that you were playing games.
Quote from: Old Seer on June 11, 2020, 11:44:48 PMSome say it's immoral and don't want their children exposed to it, and don't want it taught in schools but rather let that to deal with by parents.
As if homosexuality is a learned behavior by discussing it in school. Are they afraid their kids are going to become drug mules if they discuss the crime rate in Colombia?
Yes. When I was in school, and we discussed Vietnam, it was open season on anyone named Charlie.
My name isn't Charlie and it was still open season on me in high school. I got bullied a lot and they never got to know me.
What I find disturbing is the group hatred mentality. It seems that no matter how advanced we've become or enlightened, (after all we are in the 21st century) we still hold these unwanted values as a society. Is it just propagated from parent to child or is there something more to it?
Humans are simply just awful creatures.
we're monkeys, randy.
we behave exactly as monkeys have evolved to behave.
Apes, really. Monkeys have tails.
call it artistic license
:rofl:
Is that license up to date, billy?
'Apes with just enough brains to be dangerous.'
Agree. Intellect can be our worst enemy.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trackie.com%2Ftrack-and-field%2Fimg%2Flayout%2Ficon_quote.jpg&hash=c5a9d5ac5c9c0366d813e18a50510fe9aa16bfc2)feathered dinosaur:
'Apes with just enough brains to be dangerous.'
And just enough stupidity to use it.