SCOTUS strikes out parts of the AZ immigration law, but keeps "papers please."

[Ali]

'Cause, ya know, if lookin' Hispanic ain't against the law, it should be!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/06/25/arizona_immigration_law_hurts_young_people_and_women_more.html

The Supreme Court today struck down most of the outrageous Arizona immigration law, but upheld the one portion that received most of the negative attention when the law was first passed, the infamous "papers, please" section requiring the police to demand proof of citizenship anyone they stop who "looks" like they could be an undocumented immigrant. Most of the coverage of the decision today will focus, rightly, on how this law will affect people who actually are in the country illegally, but it's also important to remember this law allows the police to arrest someone who is a legal resident but has the misfortune to be a person of color out and about who left her driver's license at home ... or doesn't even have one. Which is why I suspect that while this law will negatively affect a whole swath of people, young people and women will be disproportionately affected.

Young people who are legal residents are in serious danger because of this law, because the cops are much more likely to harass young people for doing normal things like loitering, but young people often, by virtue of their age, don't have legal identification. Even if they're old enough to get drivers licenses, increasing numbers of teenagers and young adults are opting out of getting drivers licenses. While there are state-issued IDs that you can get instead when you turn 18, a lot of people understandably don't bother until they're 21 or so, leaving them uniquely vulnerable to being picked up for not having identification proving they're legal residents.

Additionally, women, especially in poor or rural communities, are also much more likely to be out and about without legal identification than men, especially if they don't drive or drive often. Women that are poor or undereducated are much more likely to be stay-at-home mothers with few resources, which makes it very easy to let concerns about up-to-date licenses or ID slip, especially if you don't drive a car much because someone else in the household is using it for work. If your daily life is dedicated to running errands for your family, you may not have much cause to worry about keeping all your papers in order generally, until it's too late and you're finding yourself in jail for not being able to prove citizenship on the spot. Supporters of this law claim that they're only interested in deporting more people who are here illegally, which is itself a troubling notion, but the potential for collateral damage in this war on undocumented immigrants is high.

Bolding and italics mine.  Feel free to picture me sputtiering the phrase "REQUIRING the police to deman proof of citizenship anyone they stop who "LOOKS" like...." in a shrill eye twitching crazy face kind of voice.

Thoughts?  Racial profiling is a good thing or bad thing?  Should brown people have to carry an ID to prove that they're good old fashioned Merkins?

[AnimatedDirt]

Should brown people have to carry an ID to prove that they're good old fashioned Merkins?

As a half-brown-person, I don't mind one bit if I have to carry around proof of citizenship.  If the proof can be made the size of my CA driver's license, I can slide that right behind the license in my wallet.

I don't mind hearing, "License, registration, proof of insurance and proof of citizenship, please."

[Ali]

Should brown people have to carry an ID to prove that they're good old fashioned Merkins?

As a half-brown-person, I don't mind one bit if I have to carry around proof of citizenship.  If the proof can be made the size of my CA driver's license, I can slide that right behind the license in my wallet.

I don't mind hearing, "License, registration, proof of insurance and proof of citizenship, please."

Really?  Even if you're not driving, even if you're walking down the street minding your own biz?  'Cause personally, as a more than half brown person (now that summer's here  ) I think it's shit that me or any of mine would have to prove our citizenship just because we look a certain way.  If everybody has to prove their citizenship, then okay, fair's fair.  But if it's just us, that's fucked.

[AnimatedDirt]

Really?  Even if you're not driving, even if you're walking down the street minding your own biz?  'Cause personally, as a more than half brown person (now that summer's here  ) I think it's shit that me or any of mine would have to prove our citizenship just because we look a certain way.  If everybody has to prove their citizenship, then okay, fair's fair.  But if it's just us, that's fucked.

I totally understand not wanting to be profiled at all.  However again, if the proof can be something the size of a driver's license, then I'm all for it.  Now, if I have to carry around my passport and a stamped copy of my birth certificate...then it gets to be old quick.

I've traveled a fair bit in Eastern Europe...and this is the norm.  It's not uncommon at all for everyone to carry their documents with them.  This is where the Murse got it's start, I think... 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Just make it the same for everyone and the problem is solved. No racial profiling.  I wouldn't mind if a Hispanic policewoman asked me to produce proof of citizenship.  When I travel from south Texas back home, I go through border patrol stations, and Hispanic border patrol personnel ask me if I'm an American citizen. Doesn't bother me in the least. Glad someone is checking.

[Ali]

I agree, as long as everyone has to do it, it's cool.  A PITA, but cool.  However, the AZ law is not that everyone has to be able to provide proof of citizenship, just people who "look like" they could be illegal aliens.  Are we really going to play dumb and act like that's not geared specifically towards a certain group? 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I agree, as long as everyone has to do it, it's cool.  A PITA, but cool.  However, the AZ law is not that everyone has to be able to provide proof of citizenship, just people who "look like" they could be illegal aliens.  Are we really going to play dumb and act like that's not geared specifically towards a certain group? 

Yeah, that's pretty obvious. It just creates friction.

[AnimatedDirt]

I agree, as long as everyone has to do it, it's cool.  A PITA, but cool.  However, the AZ law is not that everyone has to be able to provide proof of citizenship, just people who "look like" they could be illegal aliens.  Are we really going to play dumb and act like that's not geared specifically towards a certain group?

Logically it must be.  Arizona's issue is with Mexico ( well all of the southern U.S. for the immigration issue ) and South Americans tend to look a certain way.  It's unavoidable...IMHO.  Are there blonde, blue-eyed individuals from south of the border?  Of course...some really good looking ones too.  But the main ones coming in illegally, by Coyotes, jumping fences and braving the desert heat, desperation...are the farming types that are looking for a better life/pay at what THEY can do.  There's not a whole lot of professionals being caught by Border Patrol agents to my knowledge.

Does that sound racist?  I hope not, it's just the reality of the issue...again, IMHO.  I could be wrong.  It is how I see it though.

[Ali]

I disagree that the answer lies in calling open season on anyone who looks a certain way.  We have enough of that already (remind me to tell you sometime about the time my brother and his friend were detained for hours on suspician of robbing a Blockbuster for no apparent reason other than they were young Hispanic males and in the area.  The guys that actually robbed the place were wearing ski masks and turned out to not even be Hispanic when they were caught.) Personally I think that we should make the path to legal citizenship a lot more obtainable so that people aren't so desperate to do it illegally.

[Tank]

I disagree that the answer lies in calling open season on anyone who looks a certain way.  We have enough of that already (remind me to tell you sometime about the time my brother and his friend were detained for hours on suspician of robbing a Blockbuster for no apparent reason other than they were young Hispanic males and in the area.  The guys that actually robbed the place were wearing ski masks and turned out to not even be Hispanic when they were caught.) Personally I think that we should make the path to legal citizenship a lot more obtainable so that people aren't so desperate to do it illegally.

I agree with Ali 100%

[AnimatedDirt]

I disagree that the answer lies in calling open season on anyone who looks a certain way.  We have enough of that already (remind me to tell you sometime about the time my brother and his friend were detained for hours on suspician of robbing a Blockbuster for no apparent reason other than they were young Hispanic males and in the area.  The guys that actually robbed the place were wearing ski masks and turned out to not even be Hispanic when they were caught.) Personally I think that we should make the path to legal citizenship a lot more obtainable so that people aren't so desperate to do it illegally.

I don't think it 'open season', as much as it is just the way it is.

I certainly am with you with regard to your brother, but that problem probably lies with the 'eyewitness' to the crime.

[Crow]

I disagree that the answer lies in calling open season on anyone who looks a certain way.  We have enough of that already (remind me to tell you sometime about the time my brother and his friend were detained for hours on suspician of robbing a Blockbuster for no apparent reason other than they were young Hispanic males and in the area.  The guys that actually robbed the place were wearing ski masks and turned out to not even be Hispanic when they were caught.) Personally I think that we should make the path to legal citizenship a lot more obtainable so that people aren't so desperate to do it illegally.

Couldn't agree with you more. The whole law reminds me of the point raised in the MIA video for Born Free (cant believe I'm using something by MIA as a reference).

[Ali]

Crow, that video was actually pretty brilliant.  I had never seen it before.  The best part was when it panned down the bus and you saw that it was all redheaded men, and for a second I kind of giggled, like "Heh, gingers."  Then I realized that it was funny because I take it for granted that the government would never round up "gingers" and put them on a bus.  But the government sure would round up other people for the way they look, and why is that any less absurd of a notion as rounding up "gingers?"  Very cool.

[Firebird]

It's so funny how Republicans deny that there's racial or class profiling in their proposals in Arizona, or their laws to prevent made-up issues with voter fraud, yet are happy to break out the term "class warfare" when Obama dares to say the Republicans should pay a little more in classes. Hypocrites.
Ali is 100% correct, this is an obvious targeting of a certain minority, and it's bullshit. Frankly, if Republicans actually cared about the issue over petty politics, they should be thrilled with Obama; his administration is setting records for its number of deportations, and net immigration from Mexico is actually below 0 now. But of course, all they keep saying is that Obama's trying to give amnesty to all those illegals. It's preying on people's worst qualities to get votes. We did it before with the Irish, Italians, African-Americans, the Japanese in World War II, Muslims post 9/11, and Latinos now. Nothing new.

Now I'll surprise you all; I would be totally fine with a National ID card as long as it was easy to get and free for all citizens. It would make things much, much more organized when it comes to voting, paying taxes, crossing borders, or doing any kind of business with the government. We already have driver's licenses, ID badges for work, passports, etc. How is a National ID card so much more big brotherish in the end? Of course, the Republicans only care about demanding a picture ID without making it easy or free to get, thus revealing their hypocrisy there too.

[markmcdaniel]

I see an additional problem beyond the problems of profiling. Immigrant communities, whether they are legal or otherwise, frequently do not trust law enforcement. Forcing police to check immigrant status will only make it more difficult to police these communities.