I expect a lot of people here are already aware of this, but I've been trying to spread this message around on every online community I frequent, because it needs to be spread. I hope you'll be encouraged to spread this message as well.
The Salvation Army is a faith-based charity. It is unrepentantly homophobic. They claim to be "positive" about human sexuality, but they believe that homosexuals should remain celibate and have done some really nasty things in retaliation to being asked to comply with civil rights laws. For example, in New York, when they were asked to treat their gay employees equally, they threatened to close all their soup kitchens in protest.
Threatening to let needy people go hungry over a baseless prejudice is not "good work," nor is it charitable-- it is vile and petty. Charity and hatred should never cross paths. Doing good things does not give you a free pass to be a bully.
Here's an article. (http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php)
Here's a video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWVEtCV-jnc&feature=channel_video_title)
good post Fi, I never give to the Salvation Army or any other faith based charity. I ripped up some SA leaflets that had come through the door only this morning :D
I agree entirely - I never give them a penny.
They have never been on the list of charities I support... Not one religious charity project has a place there (That list is short, by the way, but it does exist)
shit shit are those the guys with those bells yesterday? I swear i thought i was tipping a hungry musician.
I was going to try to not go to any store with a bell ringer outside but then I realized it would make it hard to shop....even the mall has them this year; don't remember that from previous years.
I don't give them money....they are a church; they even have services on sunday at their local headquarters here in town.
Donated once, cuz it was my friends community service. For her it was either that, or teach Bible Study, so she chose the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: not your typical... on December 05, 2011, 07:59:46 PM
Donated once, cuz it was my friends community service. For her it was either that, or teach Bible Study, so she chose the lesser of two evils.
I'm sorry, but how is teaching bible study community service?
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 05, 2011, 09:20:09 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 05, 2011, 07:59:46 PM
Donated once, cuz it was my friends community service. For her it was either that, or teach Bible Study, so she chose the lesser of two evils.
I'm sorry, but how is teaching bible study community service?
Maybe I should have clarified. That was during the short amount of time that I attended Christian school.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 05, 2011, 09:20:09 PM
I'm sorry, but how is teaching bible study community service?
In the capable hands of The Asmo, such community service would turn into a great tool of destruction ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on December 05, 2011, 10:17:44 PM
In the capable hands of The Asmo, such community service would turn into a great tool of destruction ;D
I would love to see you teach a Bible Study class. Scary and intriguing all at the same time. but I must ask, would you pretend to be a ignorant blind faith stubborn believer or would you show your true colors from the start?
Neither, I suppose.
Depends on the audience, but I would not pretend to be something I am not.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 05, 2011, 10:44:48 PM
Neither, I suppose.
Depends on the audience, but I would not pretend to be something I am not.
Ah. So no causing them to doubt God with subtle remarks hinting at him not being real?
Quote from: not your typical... on December 05, 2011, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 05, 2011, 10:44:48 PM
Neither, I suppose.
Depends on the audience, but I would not pretend to be something I am not.
Ah. So no causing them to doubt God with subtle remarks hinting at him not being real?
Again, depends on the audience, but my weapon of choice is The Great Blunthammer, not a scalpel.
I will, however, use a scalpel at need. That does not mean pretending to be something I'm not though - I can usually manage by leaving my own truth unspoken and unhinted at.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 05, 2011, 11:04:27 PM
Again, depends on the audience, but my weapon of choice is The Great Blunthammer, not a scalpel.
I will, however, use a scalpel at need. That does not mean pretending to be something I'm not though - I can usually manage by leaving my own truth unspoken and unhinted at.
I must learn you're ways, oh great lump of clay. ;)
Dodging questions without seeming to is an art. As is neither confirming nor denying something without dodging. With practice, you can master it.
That said, focus on your goal in a debate, class or conversation and try to reach that goal, whether it is by reading people and situations, superior knowledge, superior charisma and cunning or a combination thereof and possibly other factors.
Quote from: Asmodean on December 05, 2011, 11:29:33 PM
Dodging questions without seeming to is an art. As is neither confirming nor denying something without dodging. With practice, you can master it.
That said, focus on your goal in a debate, class or conversation and try to reach that goal, whether it is by reading people and situations, superior knowledge, superior charisma and cunning or a combination thereof and possibly other factors.
I think I can manage this... well, the focus part might be a bit hard.
Thanks for the FYI. I never realized this, I won't be donating to the Salvation Army.
Quote from: Fi on December 03, 2011, 04:35:47 AM
I expect a lot of people here are already aware of this, but I've been trying to spread this message around on every online community I frequent, because it needs to be spread. I hope you'll be encouraged to spread this message as well.
The Salvation Army is a faith-based charity. It is unrepentantly homophobic. They claim to be "positive" about human sexuality, but they believe that homosexuals should remain celibate and have done some really nasty things in retaliation to being asked to comply with civil rights laws. For example, in New York, when they were asked to treat their gay employees equally, they threatened to close all their soup kitchens in protest.
Threatening to let needy people go hungry over a baseless prejudice is not "good work," nor is it charitable-- it is vile and petty. Charity and hatred should never cross paths. Doing good things does not give you a free pass to be a bully.
Here's an article. (http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php)
Here's a video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWVEtCV-jnc&feature=channel_video_title)
Bloody hell, I never realised any of this. Thanks!
Just my two cents....
Two wrongs don't make a right. While I applaud the OP's attempt to stand for what he believes in, I don't see that it truly does any good. If this is really something you're truly passionate about, you'd be able to change more minds by gaining influence with the people that make decisions at the Salvation Army. It would potentially have much more impact than attempting to detract people from giving to this charity that manages to somehow do a LOT of good too. There is also a posibility that these discrimination claims, which were also hearsay with no proof on a non-academic website require a grain of salt as well. The actions of one may not reflect the ideals of the entire organization.
Here is another Opinion as well.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/salvation_army.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/salvation_army.htm)
This is their actual FULL position on Homosexuality.
"Homosexuality
The Salvation Army holds a positive view of human sexuality. Where a man and a woman love each other, sexual intimacy is understood as a gift of God to be enjoyed within the context of heterosexual marriage. However, in the Christian view, sexual intimacy is not essential to a healthy, full, and rich life. Apart from marriage, the scriptural standard is celibacy.
Sexual attraction to the same sex is a matter of profound complexity. Whatever the causes may be, attempts to deny its reality or to marginalize those of a same-sex orientation have not been helpful. The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching.
Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.
This is a position, a belief - that we don't necessarily agree with, but it is their right to hold, and it is NOT a condemnation
Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse. Case
In keeping with these convictions, the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation. Services are available to All. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship I assume their religious ceremonies... is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body Membership in the church...not declination of services. I would assume here that any lifestyle contrary to their religious views, ie...devil worship - would also be frowned upon. is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline."
*fixed Bolding of my Statements - all statements in bold are mine.
It sounds like the Salvation Army as a whole needs to review it's position on homosexuality and make sure all its members are singing from the same hymn sheet with regard to how its business and charitable actions are conducted inthe public sphere, even if individual members have conflicting views in private.
I don't see how their full position makes them sound any better. I'm not giving them money; there are many other secular organizations who also do good and NONE of their money goes towards supporting any form of anti-gay message nor church services. These smaller secular organizations do A LOT of good; they just do it without being so in your face about it and don't come with preachy strings attached...if more people would divert funds from SA (and other similar religious charities) to secular groups then the secular groups would be much bigger.
http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/
Or...if you must choose a big organization the Red Cross is a good option; as they operate as a secular organization. They do a lot of good and do not discriminate against volunteers on any grounds nor do they have any kind of anti-gay statement of beliefs.
We shouldn't feed bigotry just because an organization is big!
Quote from: Whitney on December 23, 2011, 03:21:53 PMThese smaller secular organizations do A LOT of good; they just do it without being so in your face about it and don't come with preachy strings attached...
And most importantly, they don't do it by ringing bells nonstop all day long.
Quote from: Davin on December 23, 2011, 03:38:02 PM
Quote from: Whitney on December 23, 2011, 03:21:53 PMThese smaller secular organizations do A LOT of good; they just do it without being so in your face about it and don't come with preachy strings attached...
And most importantly, they don't do it by ringing bells nonstop all day long.
Indeed. This is kinda sad, since I do tend to save money by shopping at SA. I guess i'll stop, because I seriously had no idea what their view was til n ow.
I appreciate this forum post.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on December 25, 2011, 04:18:42 AM
Quote from: Davin on December 23, 2011, 03:38:02 PM
Quote from: Whitney on December 23, 2011, 03:21:53 PMThese smaller secular organizations do A LOT of good; they just do it without being so in your face about it and don't come with preachy strings attached...
And most importantly, they don't do it by ringing bells nonstop all day long.
Indeed. This is kinda sad, since I do tend to save money by shopping at SA. I guess i'll stop, because I seriously had no idea what their view was til n ow.
I appreciate this forum post.
Save money shopping there if you need to...there are lots of things we inadvertently support through shopping and it is hard to keep it all ethically sourced these days
But goodwill does also have stores and they are usually bigger than salvation army's
Then i'll search for goodwills in my area. No biggie.
I would just feel disgusting spporting any organization who feels this way.