The parable, originating in India at least a millennium BCE, is as follows:
(https://www.esalq.usp.br/visoes-da-ciencia/sites/default/files/Os%20sete%20sabios%20e%20o%20elefante.jpg)
QuoteA group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.
Version taken from Blind men and an elephant (Wikipedia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant)I felt this story relates to what I do. In science, sometimes what we work with is the reductionist approach where we shine a spotlight on one small area or phenomenon and ignore the vastness that's left in the dark. Other people might come along and shine a light on another area and encounter different results from yours, and in many cases, the first reaction is to argue over who's right. We can't all be right, can we?
Of course we can, even if not completely correct in our assessment. Even if we miss the forest for the trees. A forest is made up of trees, after all.
I find this parable appealing because it does one good to remember that sometimes a subjective assessment of something objective can be correct but at the same time wrong on a higher level -- if not completely wrong. Just as the blind men felt different parts of the same animal and reached wholly different conclusions, we can be prone to doing the same.
To wrap up this post, I have adapted the Serenity Prayer :
FSM, grant me the insight that my perception can be faulty, courage to adapt myself to new perceived evidence, and wisdom to know I still might not be seeing the whole picture. :pensive:
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
I see things differently. ;D I've seen how plenty of people who are not very clever think and you are not one of them. You seem like a very practical thinker to me, which is good!
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
That, or you have the wisdom to see the whole picture.
:levitate:
:grin:
Quote from: Magdalena on November 21, 2019, 02:44:23 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
That, or you have the wisdom to see the whole picture.
:levitate:
:grin:
:this:
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:29:29 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 21, 2019, 02:18:32 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 21, 2019, 02:16:04 AM
I'm just happy that nobody got squished. It seems irresponsible to let a bunch of blind people grope an animal that could toss them around and stomple them to death. There might be a lesson in that too...
:lol: That made my day, I didn't expect that answer!
You are, wholly right, of course. :P
I see the world in very strange ways. It's a consequence of not being a very clever man.
Any man who uses the word
stomple is clever in my eyes.
I like that parable.
It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."
They don't say if it was a male or female elephant. Maybe we should be thankful for small mercies!
reductionism is a tool to be used when appropriate, and set aside when it isn't. in that respect, it's like correct grammar, which is not always the best way to express oneself.
i have a backgorund in evolutionary ecology, which is the epitome of not-reductionimsm. my departmental chair was a physiologist, who disdained ecologists as "snake chasers . . ."
the ecologists referred to physiology as "the study of dead and dying organisms."
it depends on what you want to be looking at.
Quote from: Tank on November 21, 2019, 04:22:58 PM
They don't say if it was a male or female elephant. Maybe we should be thankful for small mercies!
:rofl:
Quote from: Davin on November 21, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
I like that parable.
It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."
Took me a minute to get what you're saying. At least, I think I got what you're saying. :P
The elephant symbolises Republicans, right?
Quote from: billy rubin on November 21, 2019, 10:04:56 PM
reductionism is a tool to be used when appropriate, and set aside when it isn't. in that respect, it's like correct grammar, which is not always the best way to express oneself.
i have a backgorund in evolutionary ecology, which is the epitome of not-reductionimsm. my departmental chair was a physiologist, who disdained ecologists as "snake chasers . . ."
the ecologists referred to physiology as "the study of dead and dying organisms."
it depends on what you want to be looking at.
That is true, there is a place for reductionism but at times it seems like people just rely too much on it and so over-simplify things which are better understood when looking at the whole ecosystem, organism, organ, etc.
For instance. Memory traces in the brain. No one can agree where the memory trace (called engram) of certain types of memory is "located" in the brain. People look at one area and say they're found it, others look at another and say no, it's here, not there. :shrug: Could be it's in both, and the reason for each research group having found different results can have many interfering factors. Or experiments were poorly designed. :-\
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 25, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 21, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
I like that parable.
It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."
Took me a minute to get what you're saying. At least, I think I got what you're saying. :P
The elephant symbolises Republicans, right?
I mean if one of the guys lies about what they perceive. When trying to rely on multiple views to understand complex issues, bad faith actors are the worst.
Quote from: Davin on November 25, 2019, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 25, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 21, 2019, 02:25:12 PM
I like that parable.
It can also be used to explain why it sucks when people intentionally mislead others. Imagine if one guy was like, "it breaths fire and hates liberals."
Took me a minute to get what you're saying. At least, I think I got what you're saying. :P
The elephant symbolises Republicans, right?
I mean if one of the guys lies about what they perceive. When trying to rely on multiple views to understand complex issues, bad faith actors are the worst.
That's true. :thumbsup:
And...they don't even have to lie. Not knowing what they're talking about is more than enough to mislead.
Like in the case of climate change deniers. Trump and his little bitch Bolsonaro ("president" of Brazil).
(https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2009/11/vrtualcowbutt.jpg)
seems to me that if the blind men had had proper training, all this woul;d not have been a problm.
Quote from: billy rubin on November 26, 2019, 12:35:20 AM
(https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2009/11/vrtualcowbutt.jpg)
seems to me that if the blind men had had proper training, all this woul;d not have been a problm.
:lol: I would love to know what that yellow cow is thinking!
She's thinking, "That thing is going to take my man!"
That's what it's for...
Quote from: jumbojak on November 26, 2019, 01:38:59 AM
She's thinking, "That thing is going to take my man!"
That's what it's for...
So it's basically an inflatable doll for bulls? ;D
Perhaps. Most of the semen collectors I've seen were a bit sturdier. Sure beats manual extraction though.
one of the disreputes in a company i once worked for showed up one day with a horse condom.
huge and thick, like a truck inner tube.
he waved it around everywhere attempting to get a reaction from everybody
until kathy volunteered a response that shut him down.
she said
paul, if you can fill that, you can use it on me !
true story.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 26, 2019, 01:47:03 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 26, 2019, 01:38:59 AM
She's thinking, "That thing is going to take my man!"
That's what it's for...
So it's basically an inflatable doll for bulls? ;D
I don't think so. Given the screen I think it is more likely a training aid for veterinarian students.
Yep,
Tank, I think you've got the right end of the . . . well anyway, you're correct.
"Haptic Cow" |
Royal Veterinary College (http://www.live.ac.uk/our-work/haptic-cow)
QuoteThe Haptic Cow is the most famous veterinary virtual reality simulator, it was created by Professor Sarah Baillie and utilises haptic technology.
[. . .]
Teaching procedures and tasks that are internal and unsighted is particularly difficult, for example, when performing bovine fertility examinations the vet's hand is inside the cow and out of sight, so how can the student copy? In turn, the vet can't see what the student is doing or know what he or she is touching, so providing effective guidance is difficult. Students also need to learn to use the right amount of pressure when feeling structures – enough but not too much. However, it is difficult to know, or for a clinician to describe, how much pressure is being used. We are using haptic simulators to help us address these teaching challenges.
[Continues . . . (http://www.live.ac.uk/our-work/haptic-cow)]
Well...you learn something new everyday.
Too bad they never forget, this unwelcome fondling must have been an unbearable burden.
Quote from: No one on November 27, 2019, 01:14:16 AM
Too bad they never forget, this unwelcome fondling must have been an unbearable burden.
Nobody ever considers the elephant!
Quote from: Tank on November 27, 2019, 08:37:14 AM
Quote from: No one on November 27, 2019, 01:14:16 AM
Too bad they never forget, this unwelcome fondling must have been an unbearable burden.
Nobody ever considers the elephant!
Indeed, no one does.
(Sorry I just couldn't stop myself :P )