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Does atheism have anything worth living for?

Started by MarcusA, May 04, 2023, 09:45:18 PM

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Asmodean

Quote from: billy rubin on March 13, 2024, 12:01:06 PMwhy cant atheists believe in an afterlife?
They can, though that would necessitate the same sort of mental gymnastics that the religious go through to "marry" the afterlife with the real world. That, or believe it "for the feels," and avoid thinking too much about it like the proverbial plague.

Quoteno reason for religion to get involved. maybe we are just an early instar of something else
That's the thing though, unless it is purely "for the feels," as I put it above, curiosity would have one dig for the way it functions and then reality would beg to differ in one way or another.

for instance, if you are still you after death, then what is a dementia sufferer, who lost most of "himself" to dying neurons long before whatever degree of organ failure constituted death? If he is just as "mentally reduced" in his newly-dead state, then how was he more than the processes running in his brain and the systems connected to it in life? If he "regains himself" upon death, then why did he degrade mentally from neuron death in the first place?

Conversely, if you are not you after death... Well, there is an argument for reincarnation. Rather than be cremated or buried, get yourself disposed of somewhere you can literally push daisies and you will get recycled back into the biosphere. Become all kinds of bacteria, plant, fungus and animal that eat each other until such a point where perhaps most of what once was you has become a whole bunch of other humans - well, parts of them anyways. If that is the idea, then "life after death" has a completely different meaning, devoid of all rewards, accountabilities, seeing loved ones, thinking thoughts and so forth. It's just... Chemistry.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

Quote from: The Magic Pudding.. on March 13, 2024, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on March 13, 2024, 12:01:06 PMwhy cant atheists believe in an afterlife?

theres evidence of ghosts, communication with the dead, all that stuff. evidence, but no proof that i know of.

no reason for religion to get involved. maybe we are just an early instar of something else

Are you, do you designate yourself as an atheist Billy?

by my definition, no. i consider atheism, in practice, to be more of a positive assertion of knowledge than a statement of ignorance. i am an agnostic, using the older defintion of huxley

"it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of any proposition unless he can produce evidence which logically justifies that certainty"

in practice, the definitions arent really important to me. i just ask people what they personally think and believe, and dont try to classify them.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Old Seer

Quote from: billy rubin on March 13, 2024, 12:01:06 PMwhy cant atheists believe in an afterlife?

theres evidence of ghosts, communication with the dead, all that stuff. evidence, but no proof that i know of.

no reason for religion to get involved. maybe we are just an early instar of something else
Yes. But, using info I have is" after life is when all religions and governments are removed", after of which life goes on under a different social form, which would be a forth generation/age. Whether true or false is for the individual to decide.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

billy rubin

im not defending the idea. im just saying that i try to distinguish things i know from things i dont know.

i suspect a great deal but i know very little.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Asmodean

I consider knowledge to be fluid and prone to change. I might know something today which will be some-degree-of-debunked tomorrow. Then, I might know that something.

There is a case to be made that the distinction between that and agnosticism is one without difference, though I think that that is not always the case.

It "all" works in a similar way though - updating mental models of reality. A square may represent a cube well enough in some circumstances. Then the cube may be changing into a pyramid with time, its base square unchanged. In this case, I know that the square is a square, but recognize that there may be more to it. That said, there may also not. Not every square is a base of a pyramid or even a cube.

A bit of an esoteric example, I guess, but such is life. Substitute geometry for pretty much whatever, and it still holds.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Skeptik

Quote from: Asmodean on March 13, 2024, 08:35:11 AMNothing wrong with a speck of constructive necromancy.

I must disagree with you that "we" have nothing to die for - we absolutely may have causes to both live, die and kill for, just like everyone else. Not having one's priorities codified by scripture does not remove the priorities themselves.

For example, many a parent would die for their child if the circumstances so dictated - atheist or no. If the upside of [the action that leads to] you no longer existing is greater than the downside... Therein lies the mental calculus.


I think I worded my thought wrong.
There are certainly priorities that many place higher than their own lives, our children being one of those.
I was speaking of having a better life after this one.  We don't look forward to that.

Quote from: billy rubin on March 13, 2024, 12:01:06 PMwhy cant atheists believe in an afterlife?

I suppose they can.  I certainly don't speak for us all.  Even atheists can have outlandish ideas.
I'm sure there's an atheist somewhere who thinks pineapple belongs on a pizza.  SMH
The certainty with which I know another man's religion is folly makes me suspect my own is also - Mark Twain

Dear Religion,
Today we safely brought a man back from outer space, while you shot a child in the face for wanting to go to school.
Sincerely,
Science

billy rubin

#21
yes.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Asmodean

Quote from: Skeptik on March 22, 2024, 03:31:31 AMI was speaking of having a better life after this one.  We don't look forward to that.
Indeed. I like to think that "this being it" makes this more precious, even when it hurts.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

why is life precious?

if you lose it, you will experience no loss.

if you can experience no loss, a thing cannot be valuable.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Asmodean

A bar of gold in the bank is not valuable because the bank may lose it.

Life is precious because it offers a very limited time to do everything one may consider worth doing to the degree one wants to do it.

There not being a sensation of loss after it ends... I don't see how that's relevant to its value. My old pair of shoes had value, and yet they ended in a dumpster with not a second thought - well, until their use in this example.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.