Just finished a fascinating book - "The Captured" by Scott Zesch. 2004, Martin's Press, 300 pages, plus copious reference notes and a complete index. The writer is from Mason, Texas, and had an ancestor who was captured by Comanche Indians in the 1800's. The writer became interested in this ancestor and started researching other child captives (mainly German-American children like his ancestor) and detailing their experiences. The most interesting aspect of the history is that if the child stayed with the Indians as long as a year, they usually did not want to be returned to American life. They had become "white Indians". They forgot most of their native tongue (English or German) and adopted Comanche or Apache culture. They never got over it. This was especially true of the boy captives. Even those who were returned to American civilization in a short time spoke well of their Indian captors, even if they had committed savage acts against their own blood families.
These were frontier children, many of German ancestry, as Germans immigrated to the Texas Hill Country in large numbers in the mid-1800's. They were truly on the frontier - up against Comanche country. Raids were frequent. Their lives were tough, and they were put to work herding sheep or doing other manual labor early. The author surmises that the relative freedom of Comanche life - conducting raids, hunting buffalo and other wild game, moving frequently - was more attractive to them than the drudgery of frontier life among their German families.
I highly recommend the book. It's a picture of an aspect of American life that seems so far removed from us now, but happened right where I live only 150 years ago.
Most interesting. You should add this to the Book Club thread for February.
I think we sometimes forget how close "history" is?
I still remember reading an interview, in the Reader's Digest (doctor's waiting rooms have lost a dimension dince its effective demise, no more word quizzes and puzzles...) with a man who was a kid in Tombstone when the famous gunfight, all 30 seconds of it, took place at the OK corral.
Some famous western heroes even drove horseless carriages!
Quote from: Tank on December 31, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Most interesting. You should add this to the Book Club thread for February.
I second that suggestion.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 31, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 31, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Most interesting. You should add this to the Book Club thread for February.
I second that suggestion.
OK. How do I go about doing that, exactly?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 31, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 31, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 31, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Most interesting. You should add this to the Book Club thread for February.
I second that suggestion.
OK. How do I go about doing that, exactly?
I think you just did it. Otherwise you can go to the latest HAF book club poll post and suggest it there.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 31, 2017, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 31, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 31, 2017, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 31, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Most interesting. You should add this to the Book Club thread for February.
I second that suggestion.
OK. How do I go about doing that, exactly?
I think you just did it. Otherwise you can go to the latest HAF book club poll post and suggest it there.
ok thanks.
Sounds like an interesting book! :popcorn:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 31, 2017, 05:43:07 AM
The most interesting aspect of the history is that if the child stayed with the Indians as long as a year, they usually did not want to be returned to American life. They had become "white Indians".
Literally "going native". :grin:
Since we are suggesting books here is my nominee for a worthwhile book to have.
And Man Created God; Author is Selina O'Grady. This is not one of the confrontational atheist books although the title might suggest that it is. , It is a comprehensive history of the world at the time of Jesus and a few hundred years before and after. It discusses many of the hundreds of gods who enjoyed the beliefs of people of those times and places. Much is written about the Roman Empire, the Parthian Empire, The Kushan Empire, and the Han Empire and how the rulers of those empires embraced gods, why and how.
The book is easy to read and has some fascinating information. In no case has the author attacked any religion or suggested that it has no redeeming social worth. She is completely neutral about all that. This is a book that should be required reading of all who lay claim to Christian or any other religious faith. It is a reference book whose author is well qualified. She has been the producer for BBC TV documentaries as well as BBC radio series.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 31, 2017, 05:43:07 AM
Just finished a fascinating book - "The Captured" by Scott Zesch. 2004, Martin's Press, 300 pages, plus copious reference notes and a complete index. The writer is from Mason, Texas, and had an ancestor who was captured by Comanche Indians in the 1800's. The writer became interested in this ancestor and started researching other child captives (mainly German-American children like his ancestor) and detailing their experiences. The most interesting aspect of the history is that if the child stayed with the Indians as long as a year, they usually did not want to be returned to American life. They had become "white Indians". They forgot most of their native tongue (English or German) and adopted Comanche or Apache culture. They never got over it. This was especially true of the boy captives. Even those who were returned to American civilization in a short time spoke well of their Indian captors, even if they had committed savage acts against their own blood families.
These were frontier children, many of German ancestry, as Germans immigrated to the Texas Hill Country in large numbers in the mid-1800's. They were truly on the frontier - up against Comanche country. Raids were frequent. Their lives were tough, and they were put to work herding sheep or doing other manual labor early. The author surmises that the relative freedom of Comanche life - conducting raids, hunting buffalo and other wild game, moving frequently - was more attractive to them than the drudgery of frontier life among their German families.
I highly recommend the book. It's a picture of an aspect of American life that seems so far removed from us now, but happened right where I live only 150 years ago.
The Comanche at that time were probably closer to being a hunter/gatherer society than anything else. H/G societies tend to have more leisure time and a less rigid social structure. (I know I'm painting with a broom. I'm talking trends, not specifics.) I can see where it would have appealed to someone whose life up to that point had been heavily regimented on so many levels.
When I was in elementary school, I remember reading a memoir of a girl who had been taken by one of the Plains Indian tribes. I don't recall many details. However, the family she was living with were very kind, did not punish her for originality refusing to learn their language, went out of their way to make sure she had beautiful clothes, plenty of food, and made toys and eating utensils just for her. Although it was never explicitly stated, after a time she realized how much better her life was there than with her biological family. Granted, as this the book was aimed at children, it was probably cleaned up considerably. However, it was hard to miss how much happier she was living with the tribe than she had been as a child of frontier farmers. I remember wishing I could have been her.
Quote from: Velma on December 31, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
However, it was hard to miss how much happier she was living with the tribe than she had been as a child of frontier farmers. I remember wishing I could have been her.
I had the same feelings about Mowgli while reading The Jungle Books. What a wonderful escape reading is.
Quote from: Icarus on December 31, 2017, 08:35:03 PM
Since we are suggesting books here is my nominee for a worthwhile book to have.
And Man Created God; Author is Selina O'Grady.
Another excellent suggestion. I'll be adding both to the nonfiction list.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 31, 2017, 09:13:46 PM
Quote from: Velma on December 31, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
However, it was hard to miss how much happier she was living with the tribe than she had been as a child of frontier farmers. I remember wishing I could have been her.
I had the same feelings about Mowgli while reading The Jungle Books. What a wonderful escape reading is.
Yes it is.
Now I'm wishing I could remember the name of that book from more years ago than I care to think about. :chin:
Quote from: Velma on December 31, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 31, 2017, 05:43:07 AM
Just finished a fascinating book - "The Captured" by Scott Zesch. 2004, Martin's Press, 300 pages, plus copious reference notes and a complete index. The writer is from Mason, Texas, and had an ancestor who was captured by Comanche Indians in the 1800's. The writer became interested in this ancestor and started researching other child captives (mainly German-American children like his ancestor) and detailing their experiences. The most interesting aspect of the history is that if the child stayed with the Indians as long as a year, they usually did not want to be returned to American life. They had become "white Indians". They forgot most of their native tongue (English or German) and adopted Comanche or Apache culture. They never got over it. This was especially true of the boy captives. Even those who were returned to American civilization in a short time spoke well of their Indian captors, even if they had committed savage acts against their own blood families.
These were frontier children, many of German ancestry, as Germans immigrated to the Texas Hill Country in large numbers in the mid-1800's. They were truly on the frontier - up against Comanche country. Raids were frequent. Their lives were tough, and they were put to work herding sheep or doing other manual labor early. The author surmises that the relative freedom of Comanche life - conducting raids, hunting buffalo and other wild game, moving frequently - was more attractive to them than the drudgery of frontier life among their German families.
I highly recommend the book. It's a picture of an aspect of American life that seems so far removed from us now, but happened right where I live only 150 years ago.
The Comanche at that time were probably closer to being a hunter/gatherer society than anything else. H/G societies tend to have more leisure time and a less rigid social structure. (I know I'm painting with a broom. I'm talking trends, not specifics.) I can see where it would have appealed to someone whose life up to that point had been heavily regimented on so many levels.
When I was in elementary school, I remember reading a memoir of a girl who had been taken by one of the Plains Indian tribes. I don't recall many details. However, the family she was living with were very kind, did not punish her for originality refusing to learn their language, went out of their way to make sure she had beautiful clothes, plenty of food, and made toys and eating utensils just for her. Although it was never explicitly stated, after a time she realized how much better her life was there than with her biological family. Granted, as this the book was aimed at children, it was probably cleaned up considerably. However, it was hard to miss how much happier she was living with the tribe than she had been as a child of frontier farmers. I remember wishing I could have been her.
That's basically the experience of the children in this book. Beyond the shock of the initial capture and often seeing family killed, their childhoods were less rigorous and more adventurous. They grew to prefer it. The most famous Texas captive was female - Cynthia Parker. She married a Comanche chief, and her son , Quanah Parker, became the last and most famous Comanche chief. When she was "rescued" after over 20 years, she hated living with whites, and finally starved herself to death because she missed her sons.