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Tipping point?

Started by Tank, December 12, 2021, 09:53:20 AM

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Tom62

Here is an interesting analysis of what is going on and how things can develop in Ukraine. https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

billy rubin

another possibility suggested by the bbc.

russia supports a coup in which the government installs a pro russian puppet


more people have been to berlin than i have

Tank

Quote from: billy rubin on January 23, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
another possibility suggested by the bbc.

russia supports a coup in which the government installs a pro russian puppet

That's been playing a lot.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

not here in america, interestingly. we see things in a less nuanced manne, and all the american news sources arebusy analyzing how russia is going to mount a military incursion.

frankly, the sponsored coup is one that us boneheads here might be hard pressed to justify interference with. if they pick a native son to run the pro russia government, we ll have to decide whether its really ukraine or not. putin will have muddied the waters enough that if we invoke sanctions he can claim  to be the innocent party, while still getting what he wants. then he ll have a proven technique to use in the baltic.

the more i think about it, the likelier the sponsored coup seems


more people have been to berlin than i have

TheFightSong

Safety in any country will always be questionable considering my studies in human polemology.

As a bisexual who supports L.G.B.T. rights and democratic progressivism, Russia has no support from me.

As a person who cares about protecting freethought, free press, and online privacy via V.P.N's, China has no support from me.

Ukraine is not a place for human rights. Some people fled from that country to have protected human rights in different countries.

The west has been economically troubled before COVID started. America's rulers started economically bullying countries through their military-industrial complex and kleptocratically international trade policies. The Banana Republic situation was to make imported bananas cheaper in America by creating sweatshops that keep poor people poorer kleptocratically. America's rulers caused this because they care about their own wealth more than human rights for everyone.

Latin America has been plagued with drug addiction, crime, domestic violence against women, cartels, poverty, illiteracy, lack of modern S.T.E.M. jobs, and political corruption because of America's rulers' intervention. America's rulers corrupted Latin American countries. The C.I.A. was responsible for making Cuba become a communistic country that impoverishes most people in it. The C.I.A. did this by using corrupt and easily bribe-able Castro to change Cuba politically. Rich, famous, and politically powerful people in America get recreational drugs from the Mexican drug cartel. This is why Texas has a high rate of crime and becomes influenced by Mexico's misogynistic macho man culture. Because rich, famous, and politically powerful people in America are keeping Mexico corrupt with its Mexican drug cartel that sends recreational drugs to Texas. Drug trafficking continues to happen in America as a result.

Israel is ruled by warmongering bullies who bully Palestine for political power via trying to censor Palestinian journalists. I don't trust anyone who legalizes mandatory military conscription nor people that support it. The mandatory military conscription in Israel is why Israeli refugees left that country to live where no warmongering exists. Israel also keeps women subordinated through patriarchal Judaism by having male rabbis make females struggle to become rabbanits. Israel is not that progressive when it comes to female leadership. Not that I am considering it is a middle eastern country.

Iran and Syria continue to get bombed because America's rulers are economically dependent on wars. Otherwise, America's economy would be mostly destroyed. So instead of making a safe world, they make Earth become hell for profit and political power. Which is why Iran and Syria continue to have Islamic terrorism, misogyny, domestic violence against women, crime, destroyed infrastructures, refugees, etc.

Europe is at the mercy of these powerful countries ruled by corrupt men. Because Europe is doing nothing to create enough economic power and military power to successfully defeat foreign threats. Europe started to have increased crime and misogyny because of middle eastern refugees spreading their Islamic beliefs. So, human rights are being threatened in Europe as the Islamic beliefs are spreading out. This is what happens when America's rulers keep bombing countries with Islamic terrorism, then refugees migrate to vulnerable Europe without protected enough borders.

America and Russia are ruled by corrupt men that bully people for political power. There is also sex trafficking in both of those countries controlled by powerfully corrupt men that threaten females' safety. These countries are un-democratic and not very progressive compared to other countries. America has a federal republic government. Russia is authoritarian politically. Russia has federation government that lacks specific human rights, such as rights for the L.G.B.T. community. There are countries with more protected human rights than Russia and America do.

America's rulers are mostly contributing to global warming internationally. This is going to cause Russia, Iran, Syria, Israel, Ukraine, and America to be affected by this global warming. Fires, floods, droughts, threatened ecosystem, and other things will ensue as a result. America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling. Oil drilling is also causing oceanic pollution and threatened ecosystem.

The tipping point has already been tipped over. It has been tipped from the COVID recession globally, increasing global warming, endless wars, endless earthquakes, endless hurricanes, sweatshops that threaten human rights, women being vulnerable to dangerously cut-throat men who rule powerful countries, misogynistic religion making trillions of dollars, and other things in the name of profit for ultra-wealthy men who care about themselves and their wealth like the narcissistic leeches that they are on the inside. They are who have already led people to hell. It's hard to reverse this when they tasted enough power and don't want their competitive games ending anytime soon. I know about their competitive games and the confidential information they hide. Knowing their confidential information becomes easy once you know how predictable human nature is. But of course, they want lower class disposables who are not educated, smart, or wealthy enough to have resources for connecting the dots quickly. So, they have indoctrination schools for training disposable children from a lower class to be manipulated and less wealthy by ultra-wealthy men internationally. They do this in many countries. Very much access to knowledge and imagination has been exclusive to ultra-wealthy men only. They keep information such as recipes for drugs to kill yourself with hidden from the public as an example.

Ecurb Noselrub

I didn't know you were a polemologist! Do you have any photos of your dancing routines?

billy rubin

Quote from: TheFightSong on February 01, 2022, 02:55:56 AM
America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling.

ive worked off and on in the oil fields for fifty years, fightsong.

where are people dying from earthquakes caused by brine injection?

what is the connection between oil drilling and hurricanes? unless youre referring to climate change from fossil fuels in general?


more people have been to berlin than i have

TheFightSong

Quote from: billy rubin on February 11, 2022, 11:09:58 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 01, 2022, 02:55:56 AM
America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling.

ive worked off and on in the oil fields for fifty years, fightsong.

where are people dying from earthquakes caused by brine injection?

what is the connection between oil drilling and hurricanes? unless youre referring to climate change from fossil fuels in general?
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.

billy rubin

Quote from: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.

yes, fightsong. i have a graduate degree in geology and worked professionally as a prospect geologist for exxon in the permian basin of west texas.

you are correct that the oil industry doesnt care about ethics or people, and never has. i no longer work there. but oil exploration has no significant effect on the earths crust and below.

the solid lithosphere composing the earths superficial crust and upper mantle is about 130 km thick. all the sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks preserved from th eformation of the planet are there, as are all the petroleum reservoirs and deposits of other fossile fuels such as coal and natural gas. nothing that human beings do on the surface of the earths crust has any effect on the mantle, and our effect on the crust is limited to 10 or 15000 feet.

earthquakes as a resut of fluid injection were fitst noticed in clorado in the 1960s, in old mine shafts. currently, disposal of oil field brines back into the formations they came from has a definite effect on shallow earthquakes, up to 4 or 5 in magnitutde, iirc. but i have yet to ever hear of a death in the united states resulting from an earthquake outside of the usual major fault zones, such as the san andreas. the last death i know of in th eunited states was during the risgecrest in 2019, when a jeep fell on a man who was working underneath.

there is no connection between weather and oil drilling except through the action of greenhouse gases and global warming. oil consumption contributes some 11 billion metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere ever year, but coal is right in there at 11 billion as well i havent looked up methane. at any rate, china, not the united states, is the major contributor to global warming through burning of coal. china produces twce the greenhouse gases of the united states, and three times those of india.

just a reality check.




more people have been to berlin than i have

Tank

Very interesting as usual.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

during the lomo prieta i was at work when it hit. lasted about 15 seconds but seemed longer. i worked as a documentations manager at a publishing company, and i ran into the vault while everybody else dove under their desks, in the vault the light fixtures started falling and the 1`2 foot bookshelves tipped over. then i was ebveloped in a cloud of asbestos dust from the ceiling.

took a while to get home, because the roads were blocked and there no power. so we all sat in our cars and watched the light poles sway in the aftershocks.

when i got home there was still no power and the house was a mess of fallen shelves and such. my project car was a 1950 hudson, and it had fallen off the jackstands i the driveway. all the plate glass was shattered out of buildings downtown, and everybody was in the street drinking beer. there was one death in my town from some pedestrian getting knocked over by a car. many houses and buildings were damaged and condemned, especially the 100-year old mansions that nobody had bothered to reinforce at the foundation.

buit this was los gatos, california, jusr a few miles from teh san andreas, which is sideslip continental marging between the pacific and north american plates. that quaker was only a 6.9, i think. the 1906 quake was a nastly one, around an 8, with some 6 metres of displacement. i dunno how much displacememnt occurred in 1989

where i lived we would get an earthquake every week or so, but mostly small ones that just shook th ehouse a bit


more people have been to berlin than i have

TheFightSong

Quote from: billy rubin on February 12, 2022, 05:24:02 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.

yes, fightsong. i have a graduate degree in geology and worked professionally as a prospect geologist for exxon in the permian basin of west texas.

you are correct that the oil industry doesnt care about ethics or people, and never has. i no longer work there. but oil exploration has no significant effect on the earths crust and below.

the solid lithosphere composing the earths superficial crust and upper mantle is about 130 km thick. all the sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks preserved from th eformation of the planet are there, as are all the petroleum reservoirs and deposits of other fossile fuels such as coal and natural gas. nothing that human beings do on the surface of the earths crust has any effect on the mantle, and our effect on the crust is limited to 10 or 15000 feet.

earthquakes as a resut of fluid injection were fitst noticed in clorado in the 1960s, in old mine shafts. currently, disposal of oil field brines back into the formations they came from has a definite effect on shallow earthquakes, up to 4 or 5 in magnitutde, iirc. but i have yet to ever hear of a death in the united states resulting from an earthquake outside of the usual major fault zones, such as the san andreas. the last death i know of in th eunited states was during the risgecrest in 2019, when a jeep fell on a man who was working underneath.

there is no connection between weather and oil drilling except through the action of greenhouse gases and global warming. oil consumption contributes some 11 billion metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere ever year, but coal is right in there at 11 billion as well i havent looked up methane. at any rate, china, not the united states, is the major contributor to global warming through burning of coal. china produces twce the greenhouse gases of the united states, and three times those of india.

just a reality check.
Thanks for the reality check.

But oil drilling is still contributing to global warming and mild earthquakes even if they don't kill people.

China, India, the United States, and other countries are still responsible for significantly contributing to global warming regardless of how much they contribute.

billy rubin

yes. but its not actually oil drilling thats causing the problem-- its not the oil companies.

its us, the people burning the fuel, and driving our cars, and lighting our houses, and heating our living rooms, and eating commercialy produced food.

we could bring the oil companies to their knees in a week if we had the collective will to simply stop buying the product that they provide for us. not driving the car, choosing to heat and illuminate only with renewable energy, refusing to buy food produced with petrochemical fertilizers and mechanical cultivation.

the oil companies arent the ones doing the damage. its us. sure, theyre selling the wrecking bar, but its us dismantlng the planet with it, not them.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Ecurb Noselrub

You are correct - billy. If there was no demand, there would be no supply.  I would like to get an electric truck next time i get one, but too expensive now.  I almost installed solar this year, but my wife was wary of it.  So, we continue to rely on petroleum. And we continue to pump out babies, and raise cattle.  As Pogo said, we have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.  We are the virus.

billy rubin

it can be done. solar is cost effective now, at around $0.08 per kilowatt hour. when i lived in california grid power was $0.16, twice as much as solar. so its all in the installation, which can still be $15,000 for a big fancy system, inverter, and battery bank.

when i lived in california running electricity to a house off the grid was 20 or 30 dollars per foot. so we looked into solar and diesel.

but you can make a dent in your electric bill by doing nothing fancier than switching all your illumination to 12V DC run off solar panels on the roof and a minor battery bank. thats easy to do, and the panels dont cost much anymore, relatively. if you live in the country where the noise wont bother your neighbors its easy to run a little wind turbine away from the house to supplement the panels.

solar is three bucks per watt now, installed. so to run three 100 watt light bulbs at a time will cost around $1000 to set up, but after that th ecost is zero. a multi-source energy system in the house is probably the best way to do it


more people have been to berlin than i have