Christian Nonduality

[zorkan]

I have no idea if that's how the biosphere is likely to meet its doom, or if it will stick around to witness the Sun going red giant on this planet's bottom

Velikovsky fable:
Worlds in Collision (book) "proposes that Venus formed inside of Jupiter, and that around the 15th century BCE, it was ejected from Jupiter as a comet or comet-like object and subsequently passed near Earth, though an actual collision with the Earth is not mentioned. In doing so it changed Earth's orbit and axial inclination, causing innumerable catastrophes which were identified in early mythologies and religious traditions from human civilizations around the world. Fifty-two years later, it again made a close approach, stopping the Earth's rotation for a while and causing more catastrophes. Then, in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, Mars (itself displaced by Venus) made close approaches to the Earth; this incident caused a new round of disturbances and disasters. After that, the current "celestial order" was established. The courses of the planets stabilized over the centuries and Venus gradually became a "normal" planet."

Suppose Jupiter which is more than twice as big as all other planets combined decides to spew out another comet which this time hits Earth, then we're doomed.
Doomed!
So what, I ain't bovvered.

[Asmodean]

Awareness is the only ONE real reality.

Explain. What precludes other realities from existing?

[Me_Be]

Awareness is the only ONE real reality.

Explain. What precludes other realities from existing?

I don't think nothing precludes other realities existing since the word ''other'' is simply a different 'appearance' of the same ONE existence. The claim 'I exist' is the same experience for every person, and although every person's experience of existence is different, the difference is simply an appearance of the same one aware real existence.

For example: I believe the actual possibility of there being a conscious experience where consciousness is able to be aware it is aware, appears to itself as an ''other' where the illusion of duality is born.

Thought creates a duality, where the same one reality splits into many; into many existing parts by being aware it is aware. Suddenly there is an awareness of I am a ''person'' or a ''self''

This introspection points to the very fact that we are all the same person being different parts of the same one existence unaware of the 'other' experiences; as all 'other' experiences are happening simultaneously all at once within the same one aware reality.


It seems there's just one reality appearing as the many, so yes, on the one hand; it seems there are many different realities, but on the other hand, those ''other's'' are unavailable since they are simply part but NEVER apart of the same one infinite aware existence.

There is already a potentially infinite period of time where you didn't exist, which ended when you were born. And if you return to the state you were in before you were born after you die, what's stopping you from existing again and again and again, because the very concept of 'you' is already known by the ''Actual'' direct experience of being aware of being aware in the first place.

That's the only explanation I've got for the ONE and true real reality, which seems feasible to me right now. It's what I believe anyway, but doesn't mean it's seen this way for every person. It's just my opinion, due to how I perceive reality as and through the lens of my own personal direct experience of what thinking on a philosophical human level means to me here.

[zorkan]

There is already a potentially infinite period of time where you didn't exist, which ended when you were born. And if you return to the state you were in before you were born after you die, what's stopping you from existing again and again and again, because the very concept of 'you' is already known by the ''Actual'' direct experience of being aware of being aware in the first place.

Entropy.

[Me_Be]

There is already a potentially infinite period of time where you didn't exist, which ended when you were born. And if you return to the state you were in before you were born after you die, what's stopping you from existing again and again and again, because the very concept of 'you' is already known by the ''Actual'' direct experience of being aware of being aware in the first place.

Entropy.

What if the known concept of 'you' is actually referring to the entire everything that is alternatively known as the universe itself. It seems that everything that is the universe is moving more towards 'higher entropy' (increasing) rather than 'lower entropy' (decreasing)

Such measurements can simply be known as and through the concept of ''time'' which must be a 'thing' albeit a temporal appearance of what is ultimately timeless /absolute and eternal.

'Appearances'' such as high and low entropy in physical systems can be observed relatively, whereas absolute timeless eternity cannot be observed; but only known as an idea in relative terms by association; meaning while (entropy and time) appear real enough within awareness, they are in fact both real and unreal within our awareness of language and knowledge; as no one ever witnessed the beginning or ending of the entire universe itself as one whole unitary thing.

 Knowledge of any thing does not actually exist outside of the brains capacity to construct it using concepts via language which can only point to the illusory nature of reality, in that ultimately, is of an unknowable nature, even to itself.

[Icarus]

This thread is in the wrong section. It should be in the philosophy section. The contributors are certainly serious thinkers who post some high minded content

One of the things that I boast about is; although we are happy "atheists" we do not discuss religion, or the absence of it, as a main thrust. We devote more space to petrol heads, photography, music, and strange antipodean stuff that Puddin brings us.

[Asmodean]

This thread is in the wrong section. It should be in the philosophy section. The contributors are certainly serious thinkers who post some high minded content

It's a good discussion, though with a few circle-going tendencies.

I have not checked in for a bit, so some reading and [hopefully high-IQ to live up to the compiment] replying to do. Yep.

[zorkan]

What's stopping me from existing again and again and again is the arrow of time (rel. to entropy).
"Just as well", did I hear.

Even the Greeks knew this.
When granted eternal life Tithonus was stuck in his old body.
If he'd asked the gods for eternal youth he wouldn't have been granted eternal life.

[Me_Be]

What's stopping me from existing again and again and again is the arrow of time (rel. to entropy).
"Just as well", did I hear.

Even the Greeks knew this.
When granted eternal life Tithonus was stuck in his old body.
If he'd asked the gods for eternal youth he wouldn't have been granted eternal life.

Eternal time is reality, and that which has a beginning and an end in time, is illusion. In the material world, time is an illusion, depicting past, present, and future.

It's an illusion, because in eternal time, there is only one tense - the present. There is no past and future in eternal time. Material time is thought of in terms of past, present, and future, so material time is illusion. In reality, past and future don't exist. There is only now. To exist in eternal time is like existing in one prolonged now.

Reality is that which is eternal and unreality, or illusion, is that which is temporary. So illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not eternal.

So reality and illusion are defined by time. One is eternal the other is temporary. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Anything seen in the light of eternity will be manifested for such a short flicker in time, that it is as if it didn't really happen.

So illusion exists, it is not false or fictional, but the reason it is not considered real is because it is not eternal. It's like a dream. A dream happens, but when we wake up, we understand it was not real. Life in a material body is like that - dream-like.

The duration of the universe will make a lifespan on earth seem completely insignificant, and cosmic time of millions, billions, and trillions of years will seem totally inconsequential and insignificant from the angle of eternal time. So in the light of eternity, anything that is not eternal, is but an illusory glimpse. That's how one can understand that anything which has a beginning and an end is illusory. Only that which is eternal is real.

Does the human body entropy? yes, it does. But can CONSCIOUSNESS entropy? it's hard to say...
We don't have any experience of something that lasts forever, do we? Yes we do. The only thing, that lasts forever is the conscious self. How so? because something conscious is absolutely here already being the witness of the body; so there is no way to un-witness this consciousness in the sense of it lasting forever, or having a beginning, or an ending from the first person singular pronoun perspective. Yes, we can witness beginning and ending of another person, but a consciousness is always needed for the witnessing of another persons entropy to be known to have occurred; so consciousness has to be eternal, never temporal.

[Me_Be]

This thread is in the wrong section. It should be in the philosophy section.

Okay, move this thread to the philosophy section then. No problem.

One of the things that I boast about is; although we are happy "atheists" we do not discuss religion, or the absence of it, as a main thrust. We devote more space to petrol heads, photography, music, and strange antipodean stuff that Puddin brings us.

And yet the ''Happy Atheist Forum'' has a Religious section where people are invited to explore - The set of beliefs, rituals, and practices founded on specific supernatural and moral claims about reality and often associated with worship of a deity.

So what to do? 

[Asmodean]

This thread is in the wrong section. It should be in the philosophy section.

Okay, move this thread to the philosophy section then. No problem.

One of the things that I boast about is; although we are happy "atheists" we do not discuss religion, or the absence of it, as a main thrust. We devote more space to petrol heads, photography, music, and strange antipodean stuff that Puddin brings us.

And yet the ''Happy Atheist Forum'' has a Religious section where people are invited to explore - The set of beliefs, rituals, and practices founded on specific supernatural and moral claims about reality and often associated with worship of a deity.

So what to do? 

You may have misattributed the quotes slightly. 'Twas not I who said that, 'twas Icarus

[zorkan]

Yeah, scrap the religion section and religion with it.
Religion means living in fear for the rest of your life.
Philosophy is dead (Stephen Hawking).
Everything it has ever presented has been proved false.