Happy Atheist Forum

There is a sick part of me that is made to feel better when other countries have just as stupid and insane educational standards as some of the schools in the US.

QuotePRIMARY school students are being taught that man and dinosaurs walked the Earth together and that there is fossil evidence to prove it.
Fundamentalist Christians are hijacking Religious Instruction (RI) classes in Queensland despite education experts saying Creationism and attempts to convert children to Christianity have no place in state schools.
Students have been told Noah collected dinosaur eggs to bring on the Ark, and Adam and Eve were not eaten by dinosaurs because they were under a protective spell.
Critics are calling for the RI program to be scrapped after claims emerged Christian lay people are feeding children misinformation.
About 80 per cent of children at state primary schools attend one half-hour instruction a week, open to any interested lay person to conduct.
Many of the instructors are from Pentecostal churches.
Education Queensland is aware that Creationism is being taught by some religious instructors, but said parents could opt out.
Australian Secular Lobby president Hugh Wilson said children were ostracised and discriminated against if they were pulled out of the class.
In many cases, the RI lay people were not supervised by teachers.
Kings Christian Church youth worker Dustin Bell said he taught "about creation" in Sunshine Coast schools.
Set Free Christian Church's Tim McKenzie said when students questioned him why dinosaur fossils carbon dated as earlier than man, he replied that the great flood must have skewed the data.
Queensland Teachers Union president Steve Ryan said teachers were sometimes compelled to supervise the instructors "because of all the fire and brimstone stuff".
Mr Ryan said Education Queensland had deemed RI a must-have, though teachers would prefer to spend the time on curriculum.
Buddhist Council of Queensland president Jim Ferguson said he was so disturbed that Creationism was being aired in state school classrooms that he would bring it up at the next meeting of the Religious Education Advisory Committee, part of Education Queensland.
He said RI was supposed to be a forum for multi-faith discussion.
Education Queensland assistant director-general Patrea Walton said Creationism was part of some faiths, and therefore was part of some teaching.
New research shows three in 10 Australians believe dinosaurs and man did exist at the same time. The survey, by the Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies, shows a "worrying" lack of basic scientific principles.
"The results underscore the need for students to be exposed to science and mathematics through a well resourced education system, rather than learning about science through Jurassic Park," FASTS president Dr Cathy Foley said.
PhD researcher Cathy Byrne found in a NSW-based survey that scripture teachers tended to discourage questioning, emphasised submission to authority and excluded different beliefs. She said 70 per cent of scripture teachers thought children should be taught the Bible as historical fact.
A parent of a Year 5 student on the Sunshine Coast said his daughter was ostracised to the library after arguing with her scripture teacher about DNA.
"The scripture teacher told the class that all people were descended from Adam and Eve," he said.
"My daughter rightly pointed out, as I had been teaching her about DNA and science, that 'wouldn't they all be inbred'?
"But the teacher replied that DNA wasn't invented then."
After the parent complained, the girl spent the rest of the year's classes in the library.

All I can really say is yikes.  Also, I posted this on my facebook and found out that a close friend of mine evidently doesn't believe in dinosaurs because he has never done any carbon dating and has never put a fossil together himself.  But - he says - that's just his nature given that he's a Capricorn.  

My head nearly exploded.

OUCH my ass just exploded!!!!

Good on the "year 5" student for taking a stand against this nonsense.

Do you have a link to the page this is from?

Quote from: "Martin TK"OUCH my ass just exploded!!!!

Nothing to worry about, it's called a fart. I'm surprised you have not experienced one before  

Good lord, how do Creationists fit that much stupid into so few words?

So much facepalm, and me with only two hands.

QuoteSet Free Christian Church's Tim McKenzie said when students questioned him why dinosaur fossils carbon dated as earlier than man, he replied that the great flood must have skewed the data.

This is why fighting ignorance in the creation/evolution arena is so damned frustrating - because distorted information is everywhere!  Radiocarbon has an upper-bound on it's ability to date specimens therefore if used to date dinosaur specimens it would give unusable results.  Therefore other radiometric dating methods are utilized upon specimens such as the sediment in which the fossil is found.  Also a combination of relative and absolute dating methods are often used.  Also, apparently Tim isn't aware that flooding, no matter how massive cannot affect radioactive decay rates in the methods that would need to be utilized to obtain accurate dates.  Radiocarbon, however, can be skewed sometimes by reservoir effect from carbon depleted biomass such as is seen in the shells of some fresh water mollusks, however this is why technique guidelines are developed as well as noted materials which can be reliably dated...but I suppose I just expect too much.

...and the part about the DNA not being invented yet...I think I could actually lost a point off my IQ score just reading that...

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I'm just not really sure there is an explicative strong enough for this one.... really.....

Ok, i will use a word used by none other than Richard Dawkins himself, but is a slightly modified context:: Stupefying

I feel sorry for the kids that they are exposed to this nonsense.

This article seems to be appearing in mainstream media.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/cr ... 5899497234 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/creationists-hijack-lessons-and-teach-schoolkids-man-and-dinosaurs-walked-together/story-e6frg6oo-1225899497234)

QuoteNew research shows three in 10 Australians believe dinosaurs and man did exist at the same time.

I think stupids appear at similar rates in various countries.
I just don't think our stupids are informed/misinformed by religion to the same extent as in the US.
The Flintstones are likely to be as much to blame as the bible.
The article is worrying, but I take some comfort that the ten year olds seem to be more knowledgeable than the RIs.
As a ten year old I would have had fun winding these guys up, before being banished to the library.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"All I can really say is yikes. Also, I posted this on my facebook and found out that a close friend of mine evidently doesn't believe in dinosaurs because he has never done any carbon dating and has never put a fossil together himself. But - he says - that's just his nature given that he's a Capricorn.

My head nearly exploded.

First I would just like to say: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.... (LOL)...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA... (LMAO) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA... (ROTFLMAO)...... Ha... Ha... LULZ.

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FACEPALM!

Okay, that is absolutely ridiculous. It should be illegal to teach children lies like that.  It's been distorted to something so bizarre, it doesn't even have anything to do with their religion anymore!  I mean, how does an obsession with making children thing Humans and Dinosaurs lived in the same time period have anything to do with your morality? It's not even in the Damn bible!

They just made it up because they had to move slightly from the 'Dinosaurs didn't exist' argument because of the mountains of evidence that proves that they did.  This is no better than that, the evidence is still raining down on them, before long they'll have to concede that God created the Dinosaurs first as a test to see if the world was ready for people, or some other bullshit like that.

Creationist Museums are bad enough, but this is public education they're fucking with! Knowledge is free, the children have a fundamental right to learn better than this.

...

BTW, I'm glad they had a Buddhist in there who was also objecting to this utter nonsense. It's good PR for my folk!

This is horrifying and infuriating.  

I have so many thoughts about this, but I can't make any sense of them right now. Just...blargh.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"This article seems to be appearing in mainstream media.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/cr ... 5899497234 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/creationists-hijack-lessons-and-teach-schoolkids-man-and-dinosaurs-walked-together/story-e6frg6oo-1225899497234)

QuoteNew research shows three in 10 Australians believe dinosaurs and man did exist at the same time.

I think stupids appear at similar rates in various countries.
I just don't think our stupids are informed/misinformed by religion to the same extent as in the US.
The Flintstones are likely to be as much to blame as the bible.
The article is worrying, but I take some comfort that the ten year olds seem to be more knowledgeable than the RIs.
As a ten year old I would have had fun winding these guys up, before being banished to the library.

Thanks for posting the link, Pudding.  

:rant:

Those RI pricks know what they are doing. That's the really fucked up part of all this. Thay actually know they are feeding lies to these poor kids.

That is why they all deserve lengthy jail sentences.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"There is a sick part of me that is made to feel better when other countries have just as stupid and insane educational standards as some of the schools in the US.

QuotePRIMARY school students are being taught that man and dinosaurs walked the Earth together and that there is fossil evidence to prove it.
Fundamentalist Christians are hijacking Religious Instruction (RI) classes in Queensland despite education experts saying Creationism and attempts to convert children to Christianity have no place in state schools.
Students have been told Noah collected dinosaur eggs to bring on the Ark, and Adam and Eve were not eaten by dinosaurs because they were under a protective spell.
Critics are calling for the RI program to be scrapped after claims emerged Christian lay people are feeding children misinformation.
About 80 per cent of children at state primary schools attend one half-hour instruction a week, open to any interested lay person to conduct.
Many of the instructors are from Pentecostal churches.
Education Queensland is aware that Creationism is being taught by some religious instructors, but said parents could opt out.
Australian Secular Lobby president Hugh Wilson said children were ostracised and discriminated against if they were pulled out of the class.
In many cases, the RI lay people were not supervised by teachers.
Kings Christian Church youth worker Dustin Bell said he taught "about creation" in Sunshine Coast schools.
Set Free Christian Church's Tim McKenzie said when students questioned him why dinosaur fossils carbon dated as earlier than man, he replied that the great flood must have skewed the data.
Queensland Teachers Union president Steve Ryan said teachers were sometimes compelled to supervise the instructors "because of all the fire and brimstone stuff".
Mr Ryan said Education Queensland had deemed RI a must-have, though teachers would prefer to spend the time on curriculum.
Buddhist Council of Queensland president Jim Ferguson said he was so disturbed that Creationism was being aired in state school classrooms that he would bring it up at the next meeting of the Religious Education Advisory Committee, part of Education Queensland.
He said RI was supposed to be a forum for multi-faith discussion.
Education Queensland assistant director-general Patrea Walton said Creationism was part of some faiths, and therefore was part of some teaching.
New research shows three in 10 Australians believe dinosaurs and man did exist at the same time. The survey, by the Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies, shows a "worrying" lack of basic scientific principles.
"The results underscore the need for students to be exposed to science and mathematics through a well resourced education system, rather than learning about science through Jurassic Park," FASTS president Dr Cathy Foley said.
PhD researcher Cathy Byrne found in a NSW-based survey that scripture teachers tended to discourage questioning, emphasised submission to authority and excluded different beliefs. She said 70 per cent of scripture teachers thought children should be taught the Bible as historical fact.
A parent of a Year 5 student on the Sunshine Coast said his daughter was ostracised to the library after arguing with her scripture teacher about DNA.
"The scripture teacher told the class that all people were descended from Adam and Eve," he said.
"My daughter rightly pointed out, as I had been teaching her about DNA and science, that 'wouldn't they all be inbred'?
"But the teacher replied that DNA wasn't invented then."
After the parent complained, the girl spent the rest of the year's classes in the library.

All I can really say is yikes.  Also, I posted this on my facebook and found out that a close friend of mine evidently doesn't believe in dinosaurs because he has never done any carbon dating and has never put a fossil together himself.  But - he says - that's just his nature given that he's a Capricorn.  

My head nearly exploded.

Why in australia? I left America and thought i was free of the creationists . Why are they following me?

Of particular interest (to me) in the article (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/cr ... 5899497234 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/creationists-hijack-lessons-and-teach-schoolkids-man-and-dinosaurs-walked-together/story-e6frg6oo-1225899497234)) was this quote

"PhD researcher Cathy Byrne found in a NSW-based survey that scripture teachers tended to discourage questioning, emphasised submission to authority and excluded different beliefs. She said 70 per cent of scripture teachers thought children should be taught the Bible as historical fact."

Religions have to discourage questioning because as soon as it starts, massive holes with no answers start to appear. That's where faith comes in. Faith doesn't answer questions, it just encourages you to stop asking them.

And it is probably worth pointing out that while it is often Christians (fundamentalist or otherwise) that get this sort of coverage in the mainstream Western media, all religions are guilty of exactly the same idea: teaching that their 'holy' book is the truth despite the huge number of alternative religions all saying the same thing.

G

It would be difficult for these creationists to continue with the bs.  A few questions from kids and they lie through their teeth and spew nonsense.

I'm aghast at what these people are doing.  Don't they see that they look, sound and appear stupid, even to themselves?

Quote from: "Reasonable"It would be difficult for these creationists to continue with the bs.  A few questions from kids and they lie through their teeth and spew nonsense.

I'm aghast at what these people are doing.  Don't they see that they look, sound and appear stupid, even to themselves?

Well they would, but they're actually protected against self criticism by a magic spell.  Gooooooo Jesus!

It only gets worse.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-electi ... 11pih.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/gillard-pitches-to-christian-voters-20100807-11pih.html)

QuoteJULIA Gillard will intensify her pitch to Christian voters with a major expansion of the school chaplaincy program.

Despite identifying herself as an atheist, Ms Gillard has been working hard to court the powerful Christian lobby.

It comes amid concern that Labor's standing among religious voters has slumped following the overthrow of church-going prime minister Kevin Rudd.

Ms Gillard will today announce an allocation of $222 million to boost the number of chaplains in schools by more than one-third, which would mean about 3700 schools will be covered under the voluntary scheme introduced by the Howard government.

That bothersome PZ Myers has also been pointing out Australian stupidity for all to see.
Thanks a lot PZ.  http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... rities.php (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/australian_priorities.php)

Hi MagicPudding:

Unfortunately, religious education are being paid for the state.  And it puts religion on the minds and hearts of children at such a crucial stage.

And the thing is, this brainwashing is even state-sponsored.  Gareth Wilson writes in The Plain Truths of Religion an example:

QuoteThe 1944 Education Act, which provides a platform for religious faith in state schools, stipulates that children should participate in a daily act of worship...This means that instead of being taught useful word association and key phrases, using the silky language of our closest cross-channel neighbours, the wonderful sponge like brains of Britain’s primary school children are soaking up a useless fantasy world of creation myths and miracles.

It would seem that we would be powerless to stop it, especially if these superstitions have already crystallized in such young minds.

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Actually, what I meant to say was

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So...yea...I had to fight denting the desk I'm occupying in school....

"The stupid...it hurts...so much....MY EYES!"  :brick:

It's nice to know I'm not the dumbest sonofabitch on two legs.

That doesn't seem like a question Who Wants Be A Millionaire would ask. Were they running out of ideas?

Quote from: "Tank"Sorry, I'm having great difficulty not imploding and then exploding reading the garbage these morons are posting/spouting  :P

QuoteStudents have been told Noah collected dinosaur eggs to bring on the Ark, and Adam and Eve were not eaten by dinosaurs because they were under a protective spell.

Bloody hell. I know that's how they think. But it never fails to make my brain bleed. And there I was thinking that magic and spells were verboten according to Yahweh. Or at least Leviticus makes it explicitly clear that magic-doers are to be rejected and killed. Then again, this is the same supposed deity who's guilty of Pride and Wrath in terms of the deadly sins.

(Also - Pinko- GO TEAM VENTURE!! )

Quote from: "Sophus"That doesn't seem like a question Who Wants Be A Millionaire would ask. Were they running out of ideas?

It's a trick question. The Moon does not appear larger than an elephant and to someone distracted and possibly slightly nervous what with the cameras and all, the fact that the moon is a effing planet is... Elusive  :D

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Sophus"That doesn't seem like a question Who Wants Be A Millionaire would ask. Were they running out of ideas?

It's a trick question. The Moon does not appear larger than an elephant and to someone distracted and possibly slightly nervous what with the cameras and all, the fact that the moon is a effing planet is... Elusive  :D

That's okay, I can make another one.  

I will make a confession that I once believed in, and preached, this sorta stuff...until I grew a brain.


  I seriously cannot understand how people believe in this stuff. Good on the kid to challenge it.

I don't have enough middle fingers to express how I feel about that... Homeschooling is starting to sound like a much better option.