Whether all mass protests actually bring about enduring social change or not is a debatable issue, but the fact is, "they" woke the sleeping giant, and the momentum several movements around the world have gained will take some time to die down. I hope they don't die down. "They", the powerful, must remember with whom real power lies.
Brazilian, American...doesn't matter. I'm watching these protests with great interest. It's a beautiful thing, hundreds, thousands, even millions of non coerced people marching for one goal, be it racial equality, end to police brutality or democracy.
Racial equality.
In Brazil, there was a recent case which sparked some racially charged tension. A black woman, maid who worked for a white woman, left the apartment on some errand for her boss and left her son behind under her boss's care. The six year old boy fell from the ninth floor to his death.
There was some media coverage, but not of any significant movement regarding how this case was handled. Let's face it though, people post in anger on their social media, but whenever the poorer, black population come down from the hills and slums to burn a couple of tyres on the streets to protest how they are treated there is an uproar from the same middle class online social justice warriors because those burning tyres blocked their road.
End to police brutality.
In Brazil, the number of deaths caused by the police spiked. Most of these deaths are of black people. Just a few weeks ago, an innocent 16 year old boy was killed in his own home during a police raid. His name added to the hundreds of black people who are killed every year by police and put in some justice limbo.
Democracy.
In the US, it's likely Trump will not get re-elected because of the way he handled the pandemic, police brutality issues and mass protests. I hope with all my heart he doesn't. I'm not an American but the strange platonic bromance the president of Brazil has with Trump will become undone when the Orangutan is booted from the White House. I strongly believe it is in the interest of people worldwide that Trump not be re-elected.
Unlike north Americans, Brazilian people act like they've forgotten the power they have. The people are still sleeping. Granted, there is the pandemic issue which really puts a dent in any plans to summon mass pro-democracy protests (political opposition parties are mostly asking people not to go to the streets because we're still ascending on the steep contamination curve). Some brae few are going anyway. There are clashes with police and vandalism. The shithead fascist president hides in his presidential palace, probably trying to figure out how to get the army on the streets to quell the anti-government movements.
It will never change, not as long as humans exist.
youre right. the more things change the more it stays the same. it cycles, though.
currently we may be beginning a good cycle. there is movement to rethink policing in some american cities, especially minneapolis.
the warrior model we use now is pretty distasteful.
There is talk in Minneapolis about defunding and dismantling the police. Does anyone think this is a good idea? I'm curious that's all. I fear that they may make things worse. Granted, I have my own reasons for distrusting the police. But the whole "throwing the baby out with the bath water" idea comes to mind.
Think of all the poor doughnut shops, what will happen to them?
I think that you should not defund the police but to demilitarize the police. Part of the money saved should go to better police training. Maybe another part should go to community services. Would be nice to see the police doing social work in poorer neighbourhoods. They could for example help young black kids to stay away from crime; help old folks cross the roads; etc. etc.
Quote from: No one on June 08, 2020, 05:49:44 PM
Think of all the poor doughnut shops, what will happen to them?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/f6/27/aef627cb94d55f6e2399cba9974c07ad.jpg)
uzed to be that police lived in the neighborhoods they worked in. beat cops were local. they knew people, people knew them.
that has changed. cops now just get called to an emergency randomly during their shift. one reason is that they afent usually paid enough to live in the citiez they work in.
i remember when oakland california tried to pasz a requirement that police and fire crews had to live in the city. it ended when they realized that they couldnt afford the pay required for oakland housing.
typically in the bay area police, fire crews, and prison guards live az far az 100 miles out in tbe central valley. they commute to the cities at tbe beginning of their week, live in city-funded apartments while they work, and then commute home for their weekends.
four or five live per apartment. fire crews live at tbe station.
Quote from: Randy on June 08, 2020, 04:29:07 PM
There is talk in Minneapolis about defunding and dismantling the police. Does anyone think this is a good idea? I'm curious that's all. I fear that they may make things worse. Granted, I have my own reasons for distrusting the police. But the whole "throwing the baby out with the bath water" idea comes to mind.
Here's a video with some good alternatives if we're thinking about defunding and dismantling the police.
I'm definitely behind demilitarizing the police, and doing some strict changing of policies and weeding out bad (or even questionable) cops, just for a start.
The whole defunding thing I'm going to be watching with interest. As I understand it, that means taking a lot of non-police work that's been put on the polices' plate off of it, along with the money for it, and reallocating those funds to an organization that deals more directly with that problem.
Several years ago, a city called Camden, New Jersey, defunded and dismantled their police force and rebuilt it. The homicide rate has decreased by 63%.
From Wikipedia:
QuoteThen-chief Scott Thomson saw it as a way to "hit the reset button" and completely change how policing worked in Camden; he characterized the city force at the time as "apathetic, lethargic and corrupt". He envisioned transforming how Camden officers saw themselves from "Warrior" to "Guardian."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Department (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Department)
Quote from: No one on June 08, 2020, 05:49:44 PM
Think of all the poor doughnut shops, what will happen to them?
They'll thrive. The ex-cops will have lots of time on their hands and doughnuts are cheap.
Heh, I have a friend who is a retired cop. Whenever he starts in about how engineers are on the Asperger's spectrum, I start in with the donuts. He seldom does it, now. Though to hear him tell it, it's only for the coffee, because if they gain too much weight, it's tougher to do the job. At least in his case, I guess.
They want to rebrand the Aunt Jemima brand, due to perceived racism. Well, I had a look at the ingredient list of Aunt Jemima Syrup, and in my option they should not rebrand but ban it, due health safety reasons.
INGREDIENTS: CORN SYRUP, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WATER, CELLULOSE GUM, CARAMEL COLOR, SALT, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, SODIUM BENZOATE AND SORBIC ACID (PRESERVATIVES), SODIUM HEXAMETAPHOSPHATE.
Most people do not bother to read ingredient labels Tom.
As for re-naming products and places, I think that we are taking political correctness to an extreme. Sure enough if the manufacturers want to change the name of their products, like Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben,s rice, or Famous Amos cookies, I am fine with that. Statues all over The U.S. are being removed or destroyed. I am not much in favor of that practice as it does not fix the problem. The real kicker is the intent to change the names of many of our military bases. Some of them have names that are said to be in honor of some Confederate person of previous importance. That may be true but it is news to me. .
Then of course there are the names of cities. Start with Washington DC. President Washington was a slave trader. How about Thomas Jefferson one of our histories exceptional individuals? Jefferson City, is the capitol of the state of Missouri. Florida has several cities and towns with names like Fort Meade, Fort Myers, and several more. Jefferson was a plantation owner with numerous slaves. He is said to have fathered a child with one of his favorite female slaves. Are we going to rename our cities because of runaway PC? Alas, Mount Rushmore's likenesses may need to be revised.
Our currency has pictures of dead presidents. The one dollar bill has Washington. The five is OK because it has Lincoln. The ten has Hamilton, Jackson is on the 20, Grant is OK he is on the 50. Will we be obliged to change the pictures on some of our currency in order to apologize for past harms? If so, my piggy bank has a bunch of offensive nickles. The nickle has an embossed likeness of Jefferson.
We are in a heap of trouble with some of this stuff. Southerners will be obliged to dismiss some of their colloquialisms too. For instance: "wait a cotton pickin' minute". That one has to go for sure.
my great grandfather was an infantryman in tbe confederacy under baxton bragg at chickamauga.
bragg was not a particularly good general. and was replaced.
jackson was a genocidal bastard. i would happily see hiz face erased from the twenty dollar bill.
my position is that tbe public space belongs to the living public, not to history or dead people. if a statue of andrew jackson iz offensive to the people who currently live in its shadow, then i tbink they should be able to move it to somewhere it is wanted. there are plenty of museumz that can take that stuff out of their public space.
My wife has given me the great advice not to read or listen to the media any more, because they are part of the problem. Instead of bringing objective and factual news, they are only out there to "trigger" people, manipulate emotions, create controversies and instil fear and hatred. I think the whole world has gone bananas, but it is better for my blood pressure and it is safer for my job security, not to comment on these events any more. One "wrong" statement and you could get banned on social media and even lose your job.
Must be weird having opinions that would get you fired if you expressed them publicly.
Quote from: Davin on June 29, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Must be weird having opinions that would get you fired if you expressed them publicly.
It is indeed a strange time that we are living in.
At my former employer, after the abuse of employees by fellow employees that went unaddressed by HR and management resulted in some high-dollar awards to the complaining parties, we all got to sit through a 90-minute lecture given by a corporate attorney on how to behave at work. No off-color jokes, etc. The big one was physically abusing fellow employees. In the old regime it was recognized by us long-timers as a method for promotion into management. I kid you not. The new regime simply walks the perp out the door, after debriefing them.
Quote from: Davin on June 29, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Must be weird having opinions that would get you fired if you expressed them publicly.
I had to be somewhat careful too. My former company was run by right winged religious people. It was a family owned company but incorporated. They played Faux News on the main screen in the reception area. Now with co-workers I could get away with my points of view but I dare not say anything to a vice-president or corporate officer.
One of the reasons they like Georgia so much is that a person can be fired simply for looking at someone wrong. We have laws of course for protecting free speech but that doesn't mean they can't find another reason to fire someone.
None of my opinions have endangered any of my jobs. My employers are conservative and I'm in a right to work state. My views are often contrary to those of my employers.
So it must be weird to have opinions that will get you fired. What kind of opinions must those be? Some examples would help.
Opinions: Like, "religions are cults, just larger." "We don't need a religious country, it's secular and that's the way it should remain." "I can't fathom listening to Rush Limburger. What a waste of time and brain cells."
Okay, so maybe not quite so caustic but if it goes against God, guns, and glory in any way, shape, or form, watch out!
The skin thinning of humanity is quite discouraging.
Quote from: Randy on June 30, 2020, 10:57:56 PM
Opinions: Like, "religions are cults, just larger." "We don't need a religious country, it's secular and that's the way it should remain." "I can't fathom listening to Rush Limburger. What a waste of time and brain cells."
Okay, so maybe not quite so caustic but if it goes against God, guns, and glory in any way, shape, or form, watch out!
Who has been fired for expressing those opinions?
While I was there, no one that I knew of. It was just an unwritten rule among the co-workers. We simply did not talk about it.
Choosing not to talk about something to honor unwritten rules, is different from thin skinned employers firing employees for saying things that offends them.
And there is a lot of area between the two for a rich gradient of possibilities.
And that doesn't even get into the area of justifiably firing someone for what that person said.
Davin, you are right. I should know better. I concede. :)