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Re: How Life May Have First Emerged On Earth (Abiogenesis Thread)

Started by Icarus, December 13, 2014, 11:41:28 PM

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Randy

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
For some reason that doesn't surprise me. I've always imagined that lightning would be the catalyst although I don't know why.

You're probably thinking about the Miller–Urey experiment? :notsure:
It could be I suppose. It's not ringing any bells for me.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
For some reason that doesn't surprise me. I've always imagined that lightning would be the catalyst although I don't know why.

You're probably thinking about the Miller–Urey experiment? :notsure:
It could be I suppose. It's not ringing any bells for me.

I don't think there is a biology textbook that doesn't mention that experiment. :shrug:  :P
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Tank

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 20, 2021, 01:02:53 AM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
For some reason that doesn't surprise me. I've always imagined that lightning would be the catalyst although I don't know why.

You're probably thinking about the Miller–Urey experiment? :notsure:
It could be I suppose. It's not ringing any bells for me.

I don't think there is a biology textbook that doesn't mention that experiment. :shrug:  :P

I would suspect you're right. Except for creationist based biology text books that is :D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Tank on March 20, 2021, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 20, 2021, 01:02:53 AM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
For some reason that doesn't surprise me. I've always imagined that lightning would be the catalyst although I don't know why.

You're probably thinking about the Miller–Urey experiment? :notsure:
It could be I suppose. It's not ringing any bells for me.

I don't think there is a biology textbook that doesn't mention that experiment. :shrug:  :P

I would suspect you're right. Except for creationist based biology text books that is :D

Those are toilet paper,  not biology textbooks.  ;)
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


No one

Toilet paper already covered in shit is by definition, useless...........oh, I see what you did there.

Recusant

Some Creationists are avid to discuss the Miller-Urey experiment as supposed evidence that abiogenesis is impossible. See for example the luminaries employed by Mr. Ham. A link to an archived page.

QuoteSome museums may discuss the Miller-Urey experiment of 1953 as evidence that abiogenesis can occur. Anti-evolutionist Philip Johnson informs us:

QuoteBecause post-Darwinian biology has been dominated by materialist dogma, the biologists have had to pretend that organisms are a lot simpler than they are. Life itself must be merely chemistry. Assemble the right chemicals, and life emerges. DNA must likewise be a product of chemistry alone. As an exhibit in the New Mexico Museum of Natural History puts it, "volcanic gases plus lightning equal DNA equals LIFE!" When queried about this fable, the museum spokesman acknowledged that it was simplified but said it was basically true. (Phillip Johnson, Weekly Wedge Update, April 30, 2001, p. 1.)

This experiment actually showed that abiogenesis cannot occur.

[Continues . . . of course.]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Randy

Quote from: Tank on March 20, 2021, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 20, 2021, 01:02:53 AM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 18, 2021, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Randy on March 18, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
For some reason that doesn't surprise me. I've always imagined that lightning would be the catalyst although I don't know why.

You're probably thinking about the Miller–Urey experiment? :notsure:
It could be I suppose. It's not ringing any bells for me.

I don't think there is a biology textbook that doesn't mention that experiment. :shrug:  :P

I would suspect you're right. Except for creationist based biology text books that is :D
Which is one line (easy to read), "Magic!"
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: No one on March 20, 2021, 03:58:33 PM
Toilet paper already covered in shit is by definition, useless...........oh, I see what you did there.

Pretty much :grin:
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Recusant on March 20, 2021, 07:31:17 PM
Some Creationists are avid to discuss the Miller-Urey experiment as supposed evidence that abiogenesis is impossible. See for example the luminaries employed by Mr. Ham. A link to an archived page.

QuoteSome museums may discuss the Miller-Urey experiment of 1953 as evidence that abiogenesis can occur. Anti-evolutionist Philip Johnson informs us:

QuoteBecause post-Darwinian biology has been dominated by materialist dogma, the biologists have had to pretend that organisms are a lot simpler than they are. Life itself must be merely chemistry. Assemble the right chemicals, and life emerges. DNA must likewise be a product of chemistry alone. As an exhibit in the New Mexico Museum of Natural History puts it, "volcanic gases plus lightning equal DNA equals LIFE!" When queried about this fable, the museum spokesman acknowledged that it was simplified but said it was basically true. (Phillip Johnson, Weekly Wedge Update, April 30, 2001, p. 1.)

This experiment actually showed that abiogenesis cannot occur.

[Continues . . . of course.]

Urgh, Ken Ham. I doubt he can tell the difference between a page from a good biology textbook and used toilet paper.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Recusant

Current research on the "water paradox" (water is necessary for the processes of life, but loss of water is necessary for the basic compounds of life to form). This paradox is beloved of Creationists, but of course they also find it necessary to misrepresent the facts ("Water Paradox: Water Needed for Cells Yet Water Destroys Living Things"). It seems to be a compulsion, which I suppose is understandable. The facts are not in their favor.

"Water was both essential and a barrier to early life on Earth – microdroplets are one potential solution to this paradox" | The Conversation

QuoteIt's a paradox: Life needs water to survive, but a world full of water can't generate the biomolecules that would have been essential for early life. Or so researchers thought.

Water is everywhere. Most of the human body is made of it, much of planet Earth is covered by it and humans can't survive more than a couple of days without drinking it. Water molecules have unique characteristics that allow them to dissolve and transport compounds through your body, provide structure to your cells and regulate your temperature. In fact, the basic chemical reactions that enable life as we know it require water, photosynthesis being one example.

However, when the first biomolecules like proteins and DNA started coming together in the early stages of planet Earth, water was actually a barrier to life.

The reason why is surprisingly simple: The presence of water prevents chemical compounds from losing water. Take, for example, proteins, which are one of the main classes of biological molecules that make up your body. Proteins are, in essence, chains of amino acids linked together by chemical bonds. These bonds are formed through a condensation reaction that results in the loss of a molecule of water. Essentially, the amino acids need to get "dry" in order to form a protein.

[. . .]

Over the years, researchers have proposed many solutions to this "water paradox." Most of them rely on very specific scenarios on early Earth that could have allowed water removal. These include drying puddles, mineral surfaces, hot springs and hydrothermal vents, among others. These solutions, while plausible, require particular geological and chemical conditions that might not have been commonplace.

In our recent study, my colleagues and I found a simpler and more general solution to the water paradox. Quite ironically, it might be water itself – or to be more precise, very small water droplets – that allowed early biomolecules to form.

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken