Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
hey gnosyic
whats happening?
what do you do with your life when youre not around here?
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Or just plain good luck?
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Or just plain good luck?
:lol: :thumb:
:postoday:
You hit that one out of the park, man. A genuinely superb reply to the eructations of friend "DL".
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Or just plain good luck?
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :brava:
:boaterhat:
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Nature, yes.
Nurture, no.
God, fuck off!
Are you looking for a reason to step out of that closet buddy?
It's ok, go ahead. I won't think any less of you. It's that bottom of the barrel mindset of yours that's the true issue here.
Speaking of bottoms, maybe if you find yourself a nice daddy, you'll finely accept you for who you really are.
Homosexuality is not an issue, the narrow-minded, hate filled asshats are.
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
dl, ive looked over your 80 some posts here on this forum, briefly. yiou tend to visit, post , and leave. some discussion, but you attract some hostility, as do most theists who visit here.
ill make an attempt to respond to your question. i do not have a belief in god, so i wont try to make up an answer for that.
with respect to nature/nurture, youhave to determine whether the drive you examine is instinctive or learned. homosexual
behaviour can be practiced by anybody, for any number of reasons, and may be a learned preference due to accomodation in all sorts of people. ive had homosexual experiences, when young, out of curiosity, but i am about as heterosexual as i can be.
but from the homosexual people i know, the preference for what sorts of people are attractive as mates appears innate, and is manifested at the same time and in the same ways as with heterosexual people. there are all sorts of mathematical models regarding sexual selection, encompassing positive or negative phenotypic assortitive mating, and it seems to me that the instinctive drives towards finding a mate in a social species like humans are likeley similar. as a social species, our genotypes are favoured in communities not by our individual reproductive success, but by the survival of our genes, the inclusive fitness to which i earlier refered. a group who contains some members whose contribution to the group is not directly related to their own reproductive success but instead is a function of inclusive fitness appears with aunties in lion prides, and non-reproductive female caregivers in elephant herds.
this may or may not apply to human homosexuality, because there is nothing that prevents homosexuals from having children and families and lots do, just like with heterosexual matings. but sexual orientation and sexual drive neednot be coupled directly to reproductive success in the first place.
so i think my answer to you question is that it is both nature and nurture, as with so many other human behaviours. human sexuality isnt binary, with gays and straights staring at each other across some immoveable wall. the assumption that it is is what has caused a great deal of difficulties in the world. rather, sexual orientation appears to be a continuum, with lots of odd side branches and parallel journeys, some instinctive and some learned.
given this, you wrote that it was quite important to have an answer to the question. why do you think it important to have an answer to this question in particular in the first place?
Billy, that is a well thought out response. I think of male sexuality as continua along orthogonal axes. In its most unrefined form it has two dimensions, with x and y axes. The one (call it the x-axis) would be a person's innate sexual preference, from 0% to 100% preference for the same sex. The second (y) could be behaviour, ranging from 100% butch and rugged to 100% effeminate. So, one can have a very girly guy who is only attracted to women, or a Rambo who only wants to have sex with males. One can add further dimensions: one possibility would be appearance. Another axis could be racial preference. So, in this system one could have a Boy George look-alike who only wants to sleep with women, and who minces around with limp wrists while doing Rambo-like things. I have been around the block a few times and have met (not necessarily known) all types.
i dunno. sex and gender is something ill never understand. but i think your axes point out quite clearly that there is a continuum on preferences and expression in human sexuality, and i think to label one particular point normal and the others not ignores the reality of what human beings have always been.
i think its worth pointing out that the folks who assert that sexual preference/expression are supposed to only be in th eform that allowsfor traditional reproduction ignore the fact that lots of heterosexual people prctice birth control of some sort.
if theyre doing that, then the argument that sex allowing for eproduction is th e3only correct version rings somewhat hollow.
what about female sexuality? it seems to me that women are more similar to each other and men to each other, no matter what their sexual orientation is. but ive known all kinds of exceptions all over the map. i used to run a weekly farmers market booth in the gay/artsy section of a big city, and got to know all sorts of different people. but mostly that experience just taught me that the best way to deal with people is just to treat them th eway they saw themselves.
Quote from: billy rubin on January 29, 2022, 03:24:26 PMdl, ive looked over your 80 some posts here on this forum, briefly. yiou tend to visit, post , and leave. some discussion, but you attract some hostility, as do most theists who visit here.
Most likely you have encountered this individual elsewhere, though perhaps not. I certainly have. To the extent he attracts hostility it is more because of the twaddle he posts rather than his religious identity. The same can be said of "most theists who visit here."
the ones who do come here dont seem much interested in persuasion, or even in conversation in general. what ive seen has mostly been challenges to debate and lots of cut and paste "take-that!"arguments from somewhere else.im perfectly comfortable with my understanding of religions, and while i have an open mind, i frankly have heard it all before, so far.
i dont mind talking with anybody about anything, but i have little interest in being talked at by someone who doesnt want to listen.
:popcorn:
Homosexuals exist because of their nature and humanity's tendency to have complex personalities.
As a bisexual myself, I will say that heterosexuality is normal for humans. A reason for this is because the people's incentive to prevent their specie from going extinct. Also, not everyone can afford fancy technology for sperm donors, gestational surrogacy, etc. Adoption is more expensive than creating a biological child to raise through traditional reproduction. The cost of fancy technology and adoption are why some homosexual couples cannot afford children easily. It is also hard for homosexual couples to have legal custody of their children in specific countries that do not have protected rights for the LG.B.T. community. Homosexual couples are still having a hard time having enough money and/or legal protection for being treated equally to heterosexual couples in specific countries. Homosexuals get punished by death in the middle eastern countries due to Sharia law from Islamic influence. This has made it harder for homosexuality to be fully embraced everywhere when homophobic politics, homophobia, fear, and normalized heterosexuality exist.
Gender has nothing to do with sexuality. Because it is not biological science nor hard science. Sexuality is a biological experience. If a biological female is attracted to the same sex only, she is a lesbian. If a biological male is attracted to the same sex only, he is gay. Biological sexes are what determine people's sexual orientations, not genders.
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
Venus was in retrograde while Leo slid into Uranus.
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
March 32nd 1773
3a. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies?
Peggy Sue
3b.How did they react?
She vomited
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
I guess anything is possible, I didn't read the fine print on the contract.
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
No, I hate everyone equally. Almost. trump wins this contest.
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
I don't like Bleu cheese no matter how you present it.
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
We have cookies.
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
My lips are sealed.
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
I guess exposing children would be the best way to root out those molesters.
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
Stupid is as stupid does.
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
I want their happiness, above all else.
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
Orgasms
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
Extinction is inevitable.
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
I not even a 1/1000 of a person.
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
Are there mushrooms involved?
There may still be hope for you.
That ship sailed a long, long time ago.
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 30, 2022, 04:44:46 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
I love this Hermes, and if you don't mind I'll be copying, and sharing...thanks for posting. :notworthy:
I think if any theist wants to post something on this forum regarding sexuality, they should first have to answer this questionnaire, and then submit to everyone here for review. :notes:
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 09, 2022, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 30, 2022, 04:44:46 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
I love this Hermes, and if you don't mind I'll be copying, and sharing...thanks for posting. :notworthy:
I think if any theist wants to post something on this forum regarding sexuality, they should first have to answer this questionnaire, and then submit to everyone here for review. :notes:
:secrets1:
PB,
No one posted it.
Oh, wait, No one actually answered the questions.
Please, continue. :reading:
Quote from: Magdalena on February 09, 2022, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 09, 2022, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 30, 2022, 04:44:46 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
I love this Hermes, and if you don't mind I'll be copying, and sharing...thanks for posting. :notworthy:
I think if any theist wants to post something on this forum regarding sexuality, they should first have to answer this questionnaire, and then submit to everyone here for review. :notes:
:secrets1: PB, No one posted it.
Oh, wait, No one actually answered the questions.
Please, continue. :reading:
No Problems Mags,...I remember trying to comprehend things after only one cup of java!! :therethere:
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 09, 2022, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on February 09, 2022, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 09, 2022, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 30, 2022, 04:44:46 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
I love this Hermes, and if you don't mind I'll be copying, and sharing...thanks for posting. :notworthy:
I think if any theist wants to post something on this forum regarding sexuality, they should first have to answer this questionnaire, and then submit to everyone here for review. :notes:
:secrets1: PB, No one posted it.
Oh, wait, No one actually answered the questions.
Please, continue. :reading:
No Problems Mags,...I remember trying to comprehend things after only one cup of java!! :therethere:
How did you know!?
That's incredible!
--By the way, it's good to have you, and your big balls, big penis jokes, here, again. ;)
Have you seen the poll results this morning?
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 09, 2022, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 30, 2022, 04:44:46 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.
Heterosexual Questionnaire
1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
I love this Hermes, and if you don't mind I'll be copying, and sharing...thanks for posting. :notworthy:
I think if any theist wants to post something on this forum regarding sexuality, they should first have to answer this questionnaire, and then submit to everyone here for review. :notes:
Thanks, and please go ahead and share it.
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think it's a spectacularly dumb question. First, given the proper noun rendering of the deity, we can rule that one out, because Yahweh provably doesn't exist.
Second, and this is important, the whole nature/nurture distinction and all the discussion that surrounds it, couched though it is in wonderfully scientific sounding nomenclature and with vaunted minds waxing lyrical about it...
Only indicates that people will vaunt even the worst, most discontinuous of minds, because the distinction is asinine in the extreme and highlights a paucity of anything resembling real thought because - and this is going to rock your world - nature and nurture are the same bloody thing. We are products of our environments.
QuoteI think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
Silly questions are never important, but I'll humour you. Why would this information be useful? I mean, I know the answer, but I want to see if you'll actually say the quiet part out loud.
QuoteIf God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Well, if God is created in man's image, and man is only happy when he's got somebody's behaviour to be all publicly pious and outraged about, I think we can see what might motivate such design. Of course, since Yahweh is a fantasy who provably cannot exist, it's a bit of moot point.
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Or just plain good luck?
I'm in awe. What a response.
I used to give awards for responses this good. I no longer have them. Consider yourself awarded an honorary Orson.
Quote from: billy rubin on January 29, 2022, 04:50:44 PM
i dunno. sex and gender is something ill never understand.
This is tricky, not least because 'sex' is not well defined for general usage. In particular, it has a range of definitions that vary slightly from field to field, making a single, robust term difficult to pin down. each of those usages is perfectly robust for the field that uses it, but none of them tick all the necessary boxes, and that's led to an enormous amount of confusion.
For example, speak to a geneticist, and they'll tell you that sex is binary. Speak to a specialist in reproductive science - Robert Winston, say - and they'll tell you that sex is binary. So sex is binary, right? Well, it's not that simple, and the reason it's not that simple is that the geneticist and the reproductive science specialist
are using different criteria and, more importantly, those criteria need not align.
When you finally speak to an endocrinologist, you get some sense of why this has been a problem, because hormonal sex is a distributed spectrum, because it's a balance between the two main sex hormones, testosterone and oestrogen.
What you eventually arrive at, once you've gotten past the appeals to authority, is that sex is bimodally distributed, not binary.
For completeness, gender is all of the above (because sex is a factor in gender) but with additional psychological and cultural components.
Ultimately, for me, it boils down to the simplest of things; bodily autonomy and the right to self-determination. Everything else is dog-whistling.
a chicken can be both male and female at different times in its life.
true fact.
Quote from: hackenslash on February 10, 2022, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
Or just plain good luck?
I'm in awe. What a response.
I used to give awards for responses this good. I no longer have them. Consider yourself awarded an honorary Orson.
Thank you. I must point out that the response was from a very personal perspective. I am fortunate enough to be in an environment where my rights are protected, but I am painfully aware that there are hundreds of thousands of people worldwide for whom being bon gay is far from good luck.
Indeed. Another manifestation of privilege.
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?
I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.
If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?
Regards
DL
There are those who think/believe God created all things, and have no answer to your question.