I think that perhaps one misconception people have had as I tell them I'm atheist is that it means that I have to leave behind all of the things I embraced as a believer, but I don't think that's necessary.
In particular, I'd like to talk about religious music. I really like church music. I've developed the habit of singing hymns and other songs while washing dishes, cleaning the house, driving in the car, and other random times when my hands are busy but my mouth isn't. And I like it. Every once in a while I'll catch myself singing praises to god or about how lovely the spring morning was when Joseph Smith first saw god and Jesus. Sometimes, I wonder if I should try to avoid singing songs like that.
But, I've decided that I don't necessarily need to believe in god in order to sing songs about him, and singing songs about him doesn't necessarily indicate that I do believe. I sing songs about Puff the magic dragon, the phantom of the opera, Santa Claus, and lots of other things that I've actually never believed were real (ok, so maybe I did believe in Santa when I was a kid--I really don't remember because my parents never really played up the Santa thing). Singing "Santa Claus is coming to town" doesn't indicate that I think there really is a fat man in a red suit who delivers toys to children all over the world in one night. So, I don't think that singing about a boy born in a manger should indicate that I believe he was truly divine.
I suppose the more general picture here is that I think that good things can be taken from religion, and that there's nothing hypocritical about me claiming there's no god and simultaneously acknowledging the good that comes from believers. They write beautiful music and paint beautiful paintings.
Thoughts?
If you like doing it, then do it because you like doing it. Being an atheist shouldn't be a reason to not do something you enjoy doing. If it doesn't unreasonably harm any one else and you enjoy doing it, then I say that you should do it. I had sung the hymns for several years after becoming an atheist, I really don't see any harm in it.
Quote from: keithpenrod on December 07, 2011, 06:45:36 PM
Thoughts?
I've known a number of atheists who not only like religious music, but sing in church choirs. And George Carlin himself once said that the music was the only good thing about religion. Altho I don't remember many of the words from hymns I learned in my religious (or at least trying to be religious) days, I enjoy them when I hear them again and I do love religious Xmas carols.
We could start to gather hymns that make no mention of God. Here's an example, Calypso by John Denver: http://youtu.be/-ZonmQZG0GQ
The thing about religious art - particularly Christian - is that it was always the best artists that money could buy that were commissioned.
So it's hardly surprising that some of the best music (or paintings or whatever) is religious.
I have no shame in enjoying Christmas songs because they are great.
Just like I can take the good traditions of Christmas time to enjoy the holiday, I can also enjoy the music which I too sing with gusto.
So, sing away with impunity, Keith, and I'll join in...
It sounds to me like you're giving yourself what we theists call 'religious shackles'. Don't let anything stop you from doing what you want. If you wanna sing hymns at the top of your lungs, then go for it! ;D
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 08:30:25 PM
It sounds to me like you're giving yourself what we theists call 'religious shackles'. Don't let anything stop you from doing what you want. If you wanna sing hymns at the top of your lungs, then go for it! ;D
Absolutely. I'm still at the point of singing along with Xmas carols on the radio and tho it gets me some weird looks (esp in the grocery store), what the heck?
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 07, 2011, 08:33:04 PM
Absolutely. I'm still at the point of singing along with Xmas carols on the radio and tho it gets me some weird looks (esp in the grocery store), what the heck?
Really small town and everyone knows ur an atheist?
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 08:34:37 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 07, 2011, 08:33:04 PM
Absolutely. I'm still at the point of singing along with Xmas carols on the radio and tho it gets me some weird looks (esp in the grocery store), what the heck?
Really small town and everyone knows ur an atheist?
Oh heck no, big international city where everybody keeps to themselves and only crazy people sing in public.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 07, 2011, 08:38:58 PM
Oh heck no, big international city where everybody keeps to themselves and only crazy people sing in public.
Ahhh. Never got caught singing by myself in public, although I have this horrid tendency to walk around talking to myself. Gets me all kinds of weird reactions.
While, I don't mind hymns, I don't really like to listen to them. Though, it's more to do with the music style rather than content. Now, if one were to remix a house music style, then I would listen to it.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:11:22 PM
While, I don't mind hymns, I don't really like to listen to them. Though, it's more to do with the music style rather than content. Now, if one were to remix a house music style, then I would listen to it.
Haha. I don't know so much about house music, but if you like metal try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY)
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:11:22 PM
While, I don't mind hymns, I don't really like to listen to them. Though, it's more to do with the music style rather than content. Now, if one were to remix a house music style, then I would listen to it.
Haha. I don't know so much about house music, but if you like metal try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY)
HHHHNNNGG iloveit
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Haha. I don't know so much about house music, but if you like metal try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY)
HHHHNNNGG iloveit
Kyehehe. I know, they're amazing, right? His screams are soooo..... I can't wait to get that good. My screams are shit, and cause me to eat half a big bag of Ricola and drink a gallon of water in 30 minutes.
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Haha. I don't know so much about house music, but if you like metal try this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWinbi7kQVY)
HHHHNNNGG iloveit
Kyehehe. I know, they're amazing, right? His screams are soooo..... I can't wait to get that good. My screams are shit, and cause me to eat half a big bag of Ricola and drink a gallon of water in 30 minutes.
Pfft. I'm a soprano, and my voice is soo soft. I would probably make a good hymn singer XD
*Edit, typo XD
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 08:40:31 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 07, 2011, 08:38:58 PM
Oh heck no, big international city where everybody keeps to themselves and only crazy people sing in public.
Ahhh. Never got caught singing by myself in public, although I have this horrid tendency to walk around talking to myself. Gets me all kinds of weird reactions.
I do that all the time. I try to keep it down when other people are around. But, one time when I was walking around BYU campus late at night, someone came walking past me singing something from My Fair Lady as loud as he could--either unaware of me or apathetic to what I thought. It gave me a little bit of courage to sing more in public.
Quote from: keithpenrod on December 07, 2011, 09:32:06 PM
I do that all the time. I try to keep it down when other people are around. But, one time when I was walking around BYU campus late at night, someone came walking past me singing something from My Fair Lady as loud as he could--either unaware of me or apathetic to what I thought. It gave me a little bit of courage to sing more in public.
Haha. Maybe I'll try the singing thing more often. But I don't think I can sing very well.
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Quote from: keithpenrod on December 07, 2011, 09:32:06 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 08:40:31 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on December 07, 2011, 08:38:58 PM
Oh heck no, big international city where everybody keeps to themselves and only crazy people sing in public.
Ahhh. Never got caught singing by myself in public, although I have this horrid tendency to walk around talking to myself. Gets me all kinds of weird reactions.
I do that all the time. I try to keep it down when other people are around. But, one time when I was walking around BYU campus late at night, someone came walking past me singing something from My Fair Lady as loud as he could--either unaware of me or apathetic to what I thought. It gave me a little bit of courage to sing more in public.
Don't feel bad, I was practicing my French carols while I was riding my horse last night. The other people at the barn thought I was nuts!
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Haha. maybe I should let you borrow the full song then. You could go caroling again! ;D
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Haha. maybe I should let you borrow the full song then. You could go caroling again! ;D
Atheist caroling? Now that sounds like fun ;D
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Haha. maybe I should let you borrow the full song then. You could go caroling again! ;D
Atheist caroling? Now that sounds like fun ;D
Sign me up!
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Haha. maybe I should let you borrow the full song then. You could go caroling again! ;D
Atheist caroling? Now that sounds like fun ;D
Sign me up!
Yes. The full story is quite amusing. Misery's Fathe is only the second/third installment of it.
Dashing through the snow.. GET OUT OF HIS WAY
Over corpses he goes, laughing all the way. (HA HA HA Haaaa)
A bloody knife and ax, a smile shining bright,
What fun it is to murder things and ruin Christmas night,
Oh, jingle bells, bullet shells
the mad man's got a gun
He's coming for you late at night so he can have his fun
Jingle bells, bloody hell
Now you'd better run
Hide your kids and hide your wife, cuz soon your end will come.
He's getting gasoline, He's gonna make this count.
While you all squirm and scream, (he's burning down your house.)
Armed with a revolver, a crowbar and jackknife,
(He's gonna make the holiday feel like more like a fright night.)
Scream and yell, the gas smells.
The fire's melting snow.
He's on a rampage in the town to claim everyone's souls.
Fairy tales, Magic spells,
Something make him go. (Far away)
You'd all better start running now while I enjoy the show.
Grandpa fell, wish him well
He's not getting out.
The mad man's right on top of him there's no escaping now.
Grandpa's dead, severed head.
He took one for the team.
Everybody else here really needs to flee the scene.
Now everyone's quiet, they're all shaking with fear.
No one wants to think about the mad man getting nearer.
He burst through the church doors, they know their end is close
It's the mad man's story to tell (and this is how it goes:
Hockey mask, vodka flasks
I'm off my meds again.
I ask the man for Smirnoff, but instead he gave me gin.
Killed him dead, Torn to shreds.
Never to live again.
I'm going to makes sure everyone here has a dreadful end.)
Ignore the parenthesis and crap. Just my way of remembering which parts do what... But yes. And maybe I'll get the chance to post a vid of it soon. ;D
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on December 07, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:39:41 PM
I really miss singing hymns as a congregation allowed me to sing without caring who heard that I had changed the words ;)
Haha. maybe I should let you borrow the full song then. You could go caroling again! ;D
Atheist caroling? Now that sounds like fun ;D
Sign me up!
Yes. The full story is quite amusing. Misery's Fathe is only the second/third installment of it.
Dashing through the snow.. GET OUT OF HIS WAY
Over corpses he goes, laughing all the way. (HA HA HA Haaaa)
A bloody knife and ax, a smile shining bright,
What fun it is to murder things and ruin Christmas night,
Oh, jingle bells, bullet shells
the mad man's got a gun
He's coming for you late at night so he can have his fun
Jingle bells, bloody hell
Now you'd better run
Hide your kids and hide your wife, cuz soon your end will come.
He's getting gasoline, He's gonna make this count.
While you all squirm and scream, (he's burning down your house.)
Armed with a revolver, a crowbar and jackknife,
(He's gonna make the holiday feel like more like a fright night.)
Scream and yell, the gas smells.
The fire's melting snow.
He's on a rampage in the town to claim everyone's souls.
Fairy tales, Magic spells,
Something make him go. (Far away)
You'd all better start running now while I enjoy the show.
Grandpa fell, wish him well
He's not getting out.
The mad man's right on top of him there's no escaping now.
Grandpa's dead, severed head.
He took one for the team.
Everybody else here really needs to flee the scene.
Now everyone's quiet, they're all shaking with fear.
No one wants to think about the mad man getting nearer.
He burst through the church doors, they know their end is close
It's the mad man's story to tell (and this is how it goes:
Hockey mask, vodka flasks
I'm off my meds again.
I ask the man for Smirnoff, but instead he gave me gin.
Killed him dead, Torn to shreds.
Never to live again.
I'm going to makes sure everyone here has a dreadful end.)
Ignore the parenthesis and crap. Just my way of remembering which parts do what... But yes. And maybe I'll get the chance to post a vid of it soon. ;D
Do eettt!
Quote from: not your typical... on December 07, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
Ignore the parenthesis and crap. Just my way of remembering which parts do what... But yes. And maybe I'll get the chance to post a vid of it soon. ;D
Do it!
I don't really concede beautiful human creations to god.
Humans created god and songs, pyramids and cathedrals.
There's a song that evokes for me weeks spent with a new love in a beautiful landscape.
The song rejoices in the idea of going to heaven.
I can relate, I've been there.
I like Gregorian chants, they make me feel funny. ;D
Quote from: Tank on December 07, 2011, 09:46:55 PM
Atheist caroling? Now that sounds like fun ;D
I agree!
Some of the carols could be simple, gentle rewordings, like, "We Wish You a Merry Xmas!"
That "X" pisses fundies off.
Actually, a whole Xmas movement could be started. "Merry Xmas" greeting cards, winter hats, temporary tattoos, necklace pendants...
More carol titles:
"Merry Xmas to You" (The Xmas Song) - Nat King Cole
"Have Yourself a Merry Little Xmas"
"I'd Like You for Xmas" - Julie London
"All I Want for Xmas (Is My Two Front Teeth)"
(Edited to take the hyphen out of the key word as I noticed, googling, that most people don't hyphenate it.)
Mythras would scan better.
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:49:51 AM
Mythras would scan better.
"Xmas" is the right number of syllables with the accent in the right place so it scans decently, at least. ;)
Most people have no idea who Mythras is, unfortunately.
Quote from: Pharaoh Cat on December 08, 2011, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: Tank on December 08, 2011, 08:49:51 AM
Mythras would scan better.
"Xmas" is the right number of syllables with the accent in the right place so it scans decently, at least. ;)
Most people have no idea who Mythras is, unfortunately.
Well we need to start somewhere ;D