Well, in the strictest sense a militant atheist would most likely be an atheist that uses violence in the name of or for atheism. But I don't know an atheist that does this, nor have I heard of an atheist do such a thing.
Yet, some atheists have been labeled militant by theists. So I THINK the definition theists go by that call atheists militant is:
A label to describe "does not agree with me and refuses to take my BS as an answer"
What do you think?
Militant having to use violence? ??? For me people like Dawkins and Hitchens would be militant, or in other words, just very outspoken.
A militant atheist is one who raises the subject of theism before the theist.
Quote from: Gawen on August 10, 2011, 06:24:17 PM
Well, in the strictest sense a militant atheist would most likely be an atheist that uses violence in the name of or for atheism. But I don't know an atheist that does this, nor have I heard of an atheist do such a thing.
Yet, some atheists have been labeled militant by theists. So I THINK the definition theists go by that call atheists militant is:
A label to describe "does not agree with me and refuses to take my BS as an answer"
What do you think?
Anyone who hates, dislikes, makes fun of, belittles, deems stupid because of...any of their fellow humans. In a sense I am guilty of being a militant Christian as I too like the jokes and what not directed at the militant Atheist.
(btw...am I allowed in this section of the forum?) ;)
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 10, 2011, 07:03:20 PM
Quote from: Gawen on August 10, 2011, 06:24:17 PM
Well, in the strictest sense a militant atheist would most likely be an atheist that uses violence in the name of or for atheism. But I don't know an atheist that does this, nor have I heard of an atheist do such a thing.
Yet, some atheists have been labeled militant by theists. So I THINK the definition theists go by that call atheists militant is:
A label to describe "does not agree with me and refuses to take my BS as an answer"
What do you think?
Anyone who hates, dislikes, makes fun of, belittles, deems stupid because of...any of their fellow humans. In a sense I am guilty of being a militant Christian as I too like the jokes and what not directed at the militant Atheist.
(btw...am I allowed in this section of the forum?) ;)
No ;)
I always describe myself thus. I mean simply that I feel strongly that it's not enough to disbelieve; one should try to oppose religion actively. Not by physical means - it's the faith-heads who kill people - but intellectually.
In practice, all a doddering old man like me can do is to show a lot of public disrespect for it and so help in a minor way to change the Zeitgeist.
Quote from: OldGit on August 10, 2011, 07:10:40 PM
I always describe myself thus. I mean simply that I feel strongly that it's not enough to disbelieve; one should try to oppose religion actively. Not by physical means - it's the faith-heads who kill people - but intellectually.
In practice, all a doddering old man like me can do is to show a lot of public disrespect for it and so help in a minor way to change the Zeitgeist.
Me too, though I'm mostly an accomodationist. I sometimes think I should be more militant though. ;D
Ok. I see my fault here. Militant isn't just violent (but I DID qualify the above as in the "strictest sense"....but can be aggressive. But I cannot see being "outspoken" as militant.
My definition of "militant" is: engaged in warfare or combat : fighting, aggressively active (as in a cause) and comes with these synonyms: aggressive, agonistic, argumentative, assaultive, bellicose, brawly, chippy, combative, confrontational, contentious, discordant, disputatious, feisty, gladiatorial, belligerent, pugnacious, quarrelsome, scrappy, truculent, warlike.
Whereas "outspoken" comes with these synonyms: candid, direct, forthcoming, forthright, foursquare, freehearted, free-spoken, honest, open, openhearted, out-front, frank, plain, plainspoken, straight, straightforward, unguarded, unreserved, up-front.
So, speaking only for myself, I see myself as an outspoken atheist until I must become the underlined synonyms above...I think.
Although I haven't read all their works, I don't think Sagan, Dawkins, Harris and the like are militant in any way. Now Hitchens, yes. And I do identify with Hitchens more than any other writers.
Jeeez....sometimes I really don't know what think of myself....*grinnin*
Quote from: Tank on August 10, 2011, 07:09:46 PMNo ;)
D'oh. Damn. I thought it would be a good place to start an indoctrination thread. Oh well.
Quote from: Gawen on August 10, 2011, 08:06:52 PM
Ok. I see my fault here. Militant isn't just violent (but I DID qualify the above as in the "strictest sense"....but can be aggressive. But I cannot see being "outspoken" as militant.
My definition of "militant" is: engaged in warfare or combat : fighting, aggressively active (as in a cause) and comes with these synonyms: aggressive, agonistic, argumentative, assaultive, bellicose, brawly, chippy, combative, confrontational, contentious, discordant, disputatious, feisty, gladiatorial, belligerent, pugnacious, quarrelsome, scrappy, truculent, warlike.
Whereas "outspoken" comes with these synonyms: candid, direct, forthcoming, forthright, foursquare, freehearted, free-spoken, honest, open, openhearted, out-front, frank, plain, plainspoken, straight, straightforward, unguarded, unreserved, up-front.
So, speaking only for myself, I see myself as an outspoken atheist until I must become the underlined synonyms above...I think.
Although I haven't read all their works, I don't think Sagan, Dawkins, Harris and the like are militant in any way. Now Hitchens, yes. And I do identify with Hitchens more than any other writers.
Jeeez....sometimes I really don't know what think of myself....*grinnin*
LOL make up your mind :P
Going by what the freedictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/militant) says,
militant is used for non violent (in the belligerent sense) too:
Quotemil·i·tant (ml-tnt)
adj.
1. Fighting or warring.
2. Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist.
n.
A fighting, warring, or aggressive person or party.
militant [ˈmɪlɪtənt]
adj
1. aggressive or vigorous, esp in the support of a cause a militant protest
2. warring; engaged in warfare
Though I certainly wouldn't call Dawkins violent, the New Atheist movement is aggressive. I wouldn't classify Sagan as a militant however. If I do recall, he didn't even like to use the word 'atheist' to describe himself, prefering instead 'agnostic' with the same justifications that agnostics who don't believe in god have today.
As, I mentioned on a previous thread:
Not a fan of the term "militant" atheist.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201102/the-myth-militant-atheism
"How can you be a militant atheist? It's like sleeping furiously" -- AC Grayling
I am, indeed, an outspoken and passionate atheist.
However, I do think Tank was onto something when he said the "brings up religion before a theist" point. I do not do that. At the same time, if someone were to say god bless you, in response to someone helping them out, I doubt you'd call them a militant theist. I also don't think Dawkins and the like are "militant" or any other negative connotation that flows with it (maybe Hitchens). I was actually quite shocked at how little The God Delusion demeaned or attacked religious individuals. I actually avoided it for a while because of what people had told me.
Militant is rhetorical tool used to demonize movements. And it works.
Militant:
Feminists
LGBT Right Activists
etc.
i think "militant atheist' is typically used in a context that means someone who is anti-theist and goes out of their way to start arguments with theists, has a goal of actively recruiting more atheists, is quick to assume all theists are harmful, and believes that the only way to stop religious influence on society is to stamp out all forms of theism.
Or in short...they are atheists with an abrasive anti-theist message.
I think there is a difference between what people consider miltiant atheist and just being an outspoken atheist....but I don't really care for the militant word either as it is bad for PR.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx
LOL make up your mind :P
Ohhh...that's a lifelong work in progress...*chucklin*
Quote from: Whitney
Or in short...they are atheists with an abrasive anti-theist message.
I think there is a difference between what people consider miltiant atheist and just being an outspoken atheist....but I don't really care for the militant word either as it is bad for PR.
Same here. "Militant" is just so negative....fierce sounding.
Quote from: Awolf26 on August 10, 2011, 09:07:28 PM
As, I mentioned on a previous thread:
I THOUGHT I saw another thread, but couldn't find it.
Sorry y'all...
If it would be helpful to merge the two, it's fine by me.
its just another buzzword to describe the outspoken atheists and paint a negative light on them. To me the phrase implies an aggressive forthright staunch atheist, they may exist but i have not witnessed one and those that do get labeled with the term are just outspoken.
I don't know if anybody else has noticed this but has anyone else noticed the rise of the term "bigot atheist" being thrown around the web? Especially when the "bigot atheist" in question hasn't stated there beliefs or lack thereof , I have had this term thrown at me twice in the last few months and seen it used frequently among right-wing Christians.
I haven't seen that Crow. So, a bigot atheist is one who hasn't stated there beliefs or lack thereof? Makes no sense to me.
I am not sure one could be militant about a lack of belief. Anti religious yes. I don't quite see myself taking any action against religion(violent or not), but I am not a fan. I just hope people realize the it's all pointless and just live their lives.
Though some try and attach a negative connotation to the word 'militant', I really don't see it as such. I also don't see how 'militant atheism' can happen separately from politics and the influence religion plays in public lives of non adherents. ??? Without any theists, what would be the reason to become a militant atheist?
Militant atheism in the same sense as militant theism doesn't exist, IMO. Atheism is not a positive philosophy, but even so it can be opposed to religion.
I'm mostly going by the usage described in the dictionary quote I added earlier:
2. Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist.
and
1. aggressive or vigorous, esp in the support of a cause a militant protest
You know I'm not really sure how to define one either. But I can usually spot them. They tend to talk a lot and not really hear what you have to say. Most militants of any ilk are like that. Alot of blah blah blah chatter until it just wears the other side down.
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:10:38 AM
I haven't seen that Crow. So, a bigot atheist is one who hasn't stated there beliefs or lack thereof? Makes no sense to me.
Makes no sense to me either.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 10, 2011, 07:03:20 PM
Quote from: Gawen on August 10, 2011, 06:24:17 PM
Well, in the strictest sense a militant atheist would most likely be an atheist that uses violence in the name of or for atheism. But I don't know an atheist that does this, nor have I heard of an atheist do such a thing.
Yet, some atheists have been labeled militant by theists. So I THINK the definition theists go by that call atheists militant is:
A label to describe "does not agree with me and refuses to take my BS as an answer"
What do you think?
Anyone who hates, dislikes, makes fun of, belittles, deems stupid because of...any of their fellow humans. In a sense I am guilty of being a militant Christian as I too like the jokes and what not directed at the militant Atheist.
(btw...am I allowed in this section of the forum?) ;)
I certainly think it says a lot that this is a common description for militant atheist, but for a Muslim to be a militant Muslim they have to blow up a building.
Is that like an extremely angry atheist? I don't know, because this is my first time hearing that term.
I'm not violent, honest. XD
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 12, 2011, 03:48:17 AM
Is that like an extremely angry atheist? I don't know, because this is my first time hearing that term.
I'm not violent, honest. XD
Yeah I would go with extremely angry as a definition too. Then again I can be that way depending on the time of the month it is. :D
I feel "militant atheist" is part of a new breed of slang the media has become fond of in recent years in the quest to divide people into ever-smaller groups and subgroups. Much like "conspiracy nut"... it's perfectly acceptable to be a "conspiracy theorist", so long as you keep your attitudes about the government and the system to yourself and concede that you may be wrong, but the moment you speak about those ideas, or present an unfashionable idea, or heaven forbid defend that idea, you're a "conspiracy nut". Just ask Ron Paul. So to with atheism... you can be atheist all you like so long as you shut up about it, but if you speak about it, defend it, or refuse to be forced into renouncing it, you're "militant". The irony being, if people renounce their faith based on opposing evidence, there's no shortage of names some theists come up with for that.
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Well to me a militant athesit would be someone who is "agressivly outspoken" about atheism and activly trying to point the flaws of religion(s).
But on the other hand it would seem to me that as soon as you say your an atheist, you end up bearing the terms "evolutionist", "naturalist" and "militant". In the eyes of theists at least....