I'm looking for references or advice.
I just came home from my 23rd graduation as a teacher. Sometimes I come home happy, sometimes sad, once terrified, and today absolutely steaming angry. I want some advice on the angry because I plan to talk to my principal after Memorial Day. If I talk to him today, I'm likely to let emotion get the better of me.
What are the rules on religion in valedictorian speeches? Speaking personally, I don't mind if a kid brings up the importance of Jesus in their life or whatever. He might be their imaginary friend, but he's real to them.
Today I heard a speech that went far beyond. It was about how our pledge contains "under god." The one good thing he did was acknowledge when it was added. But there were lines in his speech about how schools teach about all the fake Greek gods but not the real one. He mentioned about people who don't believe in his god will go to hell. It just went on and on, and then it got a standing ovation. (Guess who refused to stand or clap.)
I feel like this was crossing the line in a big way. Or is it protected because it's student speech?
It's politics - forget about it.
hi waski
in my opinion
for what it is worth
if i might be so bold as to say . . .
a valedictorian ought to be compltely free to say whatever he or she wants, so long as its legal and doesnt advocate harming other people.
its his speech. hes the valedictorian and earned his 15 minutes. if he wants to spend the time talking about how space aliens penetrated his bottom with interstellar vegetables, i say go for it.
dont clap, dont stand. thats your contribution to the free speech conversation.
Splendid to see you here again Waski_the_Squirrel. I thought of you relatively recently (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,17238.msg422606.html#msg422606). :)
As for this issue, assuming you're teaching at a public school I think you have good reason to be steamed. The valedictorian speech as described sounds like a bit more than ceremonial deism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_deism). You may have seen the news about the valedictorian who was prevented from wearing a sash (https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/27/us/colorado-student-graduation-mexican-american-flag/index.html) that had the US flag and the Mexican flag because a valedictorian speech "qualifies as school-sponsored speech, at least for the duration of the ceremony." Of course it is up to the school administration how they would approach the question. Since the speech has already been given, not sure what could be done aside from laying down some guidelines on future valedictorian speeches.
were i a valedictorian and was told by some adminstrator that they were going to police my speech, i would nod politely and say what i wanted anyway.
if they wanted to make a scene i would cooperate fully and make it epic.
Quote from: billy rubin on May 29, 2023, 04:16:23 AMwere i a valedictorian and was told by some adminstrator that they were going to police my speech, i would nod politely and say what i wanted anyway.
if they wanted to make a scene i would cooperate fully and make it epic.
That's why I'm struggling with this. Part of me says "asshole." But then I wonder about a speech that I agreed with.
There is civility. On the other hand, do we advance human rights if we hide behind civility?
Assholes are everywhere.
Civilisation has a lot to answer for.
Quote from: Waski_the_Squirrel on May 30, 2023, 03:20:07 AMQuote from: billy rubin on May 29, 2023, 04:16:23 AMwere i a valedictorian and was told by some adminstrator that they were going to police my speech, i would nod politely and say what i wanted anyway.
if they wanted to make a scene i would cooperate fully and make it epic.
That's why I'm struggling with this. Part of me says "asshole." But then I wonder about a speech that I agreed with.
There is civility. On the other hand, do we advance human rights if we hide behind civility?
what problem did this student cause that requires intervention?
Quote from: billy rubin on May 29, 2023, 03:03:34 AMits his speech. hes the valedictorian and earned his 15 minutes. if he wants to spend the time talking about how space aliens penetrated his bottom with interstellar vegetables, i say go for it.
Quotedont clap, dont stand. thats your contribution to the free speech conversation.
Oh, come ON! If
that was the speech, how could it be received with anything less than jubilant, standing ovation?! Alien
vegetables! :smilenod:
Valedictorian was probably qualified by earning extraordinary grades. He was unlikely to have earned his grades as a student in a well lead science class and certainly not a student in a Logic class or an anthropology class or a Greek history class. Do public schools still have classes that address the study of logic, history, the sciences?
The kid was exercising what he believed to be his obligation. I would not have liked his choice of words but would have respected his achievements nonetheless. He will, in all probabilities, become a hard nosed Republican (sigh)
A while back in time, one of the NAACP tag lines referred to the tragedy of "a good mind is a terrible thing to waste". That remains as a truism.