Happy Atheist Forum

I just saw Ben Stein's "Expelled - No Intelligence Allowed". I went in knowing what I was getting myself into, but still wanted to see it to see his take on the Evolution vs. Intelligent Design issue.

Stein is arguing that academia blacklists scientists who include the idea of intelligent design even slightly into their work. He made it seem like it's a huge issue of academic freedom that's being taken away from qualified scientists. The movie opens and closes with dramatic clips of the Berlin wall. The symbolism is that scientists only have true academic freedom if they're on the right side of the wall. The evolution side. The other side is if, as a scientist, you allow the idea of intelligent design into your studies. Which is basically true, but is there anything wrong with that?

My first reaction was that I feel for scientists who can lose their jobs for one mention of ID, but according to other sources the movie made it much more dramatic than it really was. According to Wikipedia (I know not the most reliable), one of the scientists interviewed, Richard Sternberg, had submitted his resignation the year before allowing an article to be published that according to the movie cost him his job as editor of Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. Just one example.

Then my second reaction was that intelligent design is not science, even if evolutionary theory doesn't have all the explanations for how life began. The documentary skates around this issue by trying to take any reference to a creator out of the definition of intelligent design, as if that will somehow relieve it of its superstitious nature. Stein and the documentary makers then try to boost the credibility of ID by noting the shortfalls of evolutionary theory. A noteworthy example is the first appearance of the first self-replicating cell. Nobody knows how this happened. By the way, "Expelled" does have a great animation sequence featuring a living cell. The animation aside, though, tearing apart evolution simply doesn't make ID more credible. Just because we as evolutionists can't explain everything doesn't mean we default to more superstitious alternatives.

The movie kind of changes gears as Stein directly correlates Darwinism with the advent of Fascism. Yep, he plays the Hitler card big time. Then it goes over-the-edge fundie when Margaret Sanger/Planned Parenthood and eugenics are linked directly to Darwinism, too.

Then my favorite part of  "Expelled" features a face to face interview with Richard Dawkins. Ben Stein basically asks what every fundie in the nation would ask: If you died and faced God what would you say? How rediculous. To which Dawkins politely quotes Bertrand Russell in saying "Sir, why did you take such pains in hiding yourself?" But there was nothing incredible about the interview. Stein just has Dawkins flex his evil atheist wings for the fundies to shake their heads at.

So, all in all, I find "Expelled" pretty much just propaganda. Sorry, fundies, no matter how you slice it, ID just isn't science.

There are a lot of good posts and articles about this piece of propaganda over at RichardDawkins.net both in the forum and on the main page.

I'm concerned that the political climate is just right for this film to stir up anti-atheist sentiment in America.  We have enough fundamentalist loonies already without this feeding their fanaticism.  I live in an extremely religious area and fear the repercussions of this baldfaced attempt to demonize both scientists and atheists in one stroke of a broad twisted brush.

'Expelled' ripped off Harvard's 'Inner Life of the Cell' animation (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2460,Expelled-ripped-off-Harvards-Inner-Life-of-the-Cell-animation,David-Bolinsky)

Expelled Overview (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2400,Expelled-Overview,Josh-Timonen-RichardDawkinsnet)

Yoko Ono, Filmmakers Caught in 'Expelled' Flap (http://richarddawkins.net/article,2477,Yoko-Ono-Filmmakers-Caught-in-Expelled-Flap,Ethan-Smith)

Call me a sentimentalist but I actually choked on tears hearing of the unauthorized use of John Lennon's "Imagine" in the film.

Thanks for the links. All very interesting.

All hail the evil dark lord Dawkins!

Thanks for the basic summation of the film.  You didn't mention any interview with Behe, the neo-creationist whose work on which this film is probably based.  Did he have a cameo?  It is unlikely I will ever go see this film (cough-cough) anymore than I am likely to watch "Passion of the Christ" and I doubt many other people, other than Xians and the like, will either.  It will be interesting to follow the reception the film gets in the greater evangelical community, but I doubt pastors will be calling on their followers to flock to theaters to support the mockumentary.  Look, it's not going to be like another Amy Grant crossover hit to the pop charts....not going to win an Oscar!

Ben Stein has ruined his career in a spectacular way. No longer will he be viewed as an intellectual, but rather a pandering buffoon. I wish I had gone on "Win Ben Stein's Money" and taken him to the cleaners.

A writer who thinks "Ben Stein is saving our children" and "the theory of evolution caused the Holocaust" just got the reply below in his comments on Associated Content.

It's odd that they needed to steal the animation of a cell and make unauthorized use of John Lennon's song, "Imagine" to make such a film. I also find it odd that people want public school teachers teaching their children about God in science class. What's stranger still is that Ben Stein doesn't know the difference between the theory of evolution and Social Darwinism. The Holocaust was perpetrated by Hitler, a Christian, who used something called Social Darwinism to justify his actions. Social Darwinism bears as much relation to the Theory of Evolution as child molestation bears to making love. Social Darwinism is a perversion. Or you could say Social Darwinism bears as much in common with the theory of evolution as the message of Christ bears to the Spanish Inquisition.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"The Holocaust was perpetrated by Hitler, a Christian, who used something called Social Darwinism to justify his actions. Social Darwinism bears as much relation to the Theory of Evolution as child molestation bears to making love. Social Darwinism is a perversion. Or you could say Social Darwinism bears as much in common with the theory of evolution as the message of Christ bears to the Spanish Inquisition.

I want to put this on a t-shirt... can I add that to our AtheismQuotes site with your name??

Quote from: "rlrose328"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"The Holocaust was perpetrated by Hitler, a Christian, who used something called Social Darwinism to justify his actions. Social Darwinism bears as much relation to the Theory of Evolution as child molestation bears to making love. Social Darwinism is a perversion. Or you could say Social Darwinism bears as much in common with the theory of evolution as the message of Christ bears to the Spanish Inquisition.

I want to put this on a t-shirt... can I add that to our AtheismQuotes site with your name??

No problem, I'd be flattered.

It took me a bit to actually understand what it is about when I first saw the trailer. When I got it, I laughed out loud. What the hell is Ben Stein hoping to get out of this? I haven't seen it, so thank you for the great description. I'm not going to waste my money.

 

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Call me a sentimentalist but I actually choked on tears hearing of the unauthorized use of John Lennon's "Imagine" in the film.

I am a huge Beatles fan and I love John Lennon. I can't believe they used "Imagine" without permission (actually, I can believe it but you get what I mean).

Quote from: "Kylyssa"What's stranger still is that Ben Stein doesn't know the difference between the theory of evolution and Social Darwinism. The Holocaust was perpetrated by Hitler, a Christian, who used something called Social Darwinism to justify his actions. Social Darwinism bears as much relation to the Theory of Evolution as child molestation bears to making love. Social Darwinism is a perversion. Or you could say Social Darwinism bears as much in common with the theory of evolution as the message of Christ bears to the Spanish Inquisition.

I love this! Why do fundamentalists always seem to use the Hitler argument? They're just making themselves sound like idiots.

For the life of me I can't understand how the religious people are motivated by this "Imagine" song.  Do they just pretend the original lyrics don't say:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

?!?!?!?!?!?!

Expelled only plays the song for a moment. They point out the line that says 'And no religion too' in the movie to scare the fundies.

But, it's funny - my mom, who is a fundie, has an 'Imagine' necklace. I pointed that same sentiment out to her once over dinner. I don't think I've seen it since. In Florida we have an 'Imagine' license plate with with a stylized characiture of John Lennon's head superimposed. Actually pretty cool. I think I'm going for that one this year.

The Atheist Meet-up  group I'm in scheduled a movie and dinner night to go view the movie, but more and more, the members are posting that they will not, in any way, shape or form, support that movie by viewing, paying for, or thinking about it.  The more credence we give it, the more they think they're right.  

I asked a friend if she wants to go see it... my neighbor who is more and more atheist every time we talk.      She hadn't even HEARD of it and I had to explain what ID is... scary how it's so much in the forefront of our thinking and she's happily oblivious.  Wish I could be like that sometimes.

I should just leave arguments about this movie and ID well enough alone.  I've had too many head injuries already and every time I get involved in these discussions I just want to beat my head against a wall.  Some guy is trying to tell me that Intelligent Design has nothing to do with god or gods in this argument. (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/728187/ben_steins_expelled_the_most_important.html?post=true#comments)

I read some of that argument. This is a great quote.

"All ID says is that evolution seems to be driven by some kind of purpose or guiding force."

Head. Wall. Bang.

On a side note....I have not heard one person (in 'real' life) mention a thing about Expelled.  This either means that A) no one around here has watched, B) no one around here cares about it, or C) no one around here wants to admit they watched it.  

I'm actually surprised my best friend hasn't said something about it.  Maybe she hasn't heard about it since she doesn't have cable.  She's got a bit (well, a lot) of fundie in her and would probably swallow most of the movie as truth.  I hope she doesn't discover it, I don't want to have to watch it just to explain why it's a load of bs.

My neighbor wanted to see it but I think it's because she's still searching for what she believes/doesn't believe.  After several discussions over the past few weeks, she said she's pretty sure she's an atheist (or at least an agnostic atheist... LOL!) but then she forwards two religious-themed YouTube things to me with "very inspiring" as her comment.  Ugh.  I'm sure we'll discuss it more over the next several years...  

I saw the film and wrote a review on it for my college newspaper.

What did I think of it?

Utter crap.

The movie is basically an attack on Darwinism squashed between two patriotic interludes.  It nearly pained me to watch it.  I groaned nearly every minute.

It's funny to me that NOTHING about irreducible complexity (the only thing ID proponents have to say provides evidence for their "theory") appeared in that movie.  There was no clear explanation about what ID was.  

Ben Stein walked around the entire movie acting like he knew nothing about the world about him ("How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust?") for the sake of this movie.  It was quite pathetic.

Hooray for Dawkins, though.

Quote from: "Willravel"Ben Stein has ruined his career in a spectacular way. No longer will he be viewed as an intellectual, but rather a pandering buffoon. I wish I had gone on "Win Ben Stein's Money" and taken him to the cleaners.

"amen" to that.
I was under the impression that the guy was an intellectual. I unfortunately saw the movie about a month ago (off the internet, thankfully I didn't pay for that garbage) and was stunned. Going into the movie, I didn't know completely what the point of it was going to be. I hadn't read any reviews, or seen any trailers, I just heard it was about the ID vs Evolution debate. I assumed that Stein, being a supposed intellectual, would fall on the evolution side. Boy was I wrong. What a load of propaganda crap!

It was at least reassuring to see that users on IMDB.com gave this steaming pile a 3.7 out of 10 rating(at 5,902 votes), while Religulous has a solid 7.7 out of 10(at 7,428 votes)
That at least gives me hope that the vast majority of people who saw this realize what a load of garbage it was.

Quote from: "Kona"Thanks for the basic summation of the film.  You didn't mention any interview with Behe, the neo-creationist whose work on which this film is probably based.  Did he have a cameo?  It is unlikely I will ever go see this film (cough-cough) anymore than I am likely to watch "Passion of the Christ" and I doubt many other people, other than Xians and the like, will either.  It will be interesting to follow the reception the film gets in the greater evangelical community, but I doubt pastors will be calling on their followers to flock to theaters to support the mockumentary.  Look, it's not going to be like another Amy Grant crossover hit to the pop charts....not going to win an Oscar!

Quick comment on the "Passion of the Christ" film. (And I know I am very late in this thread but thought this was interesting, hope I am not duplicating.)  I saw this when it first came out on DVD and watched with a few friends who are non-active Christians.  I was in tears through the entire movie and neither of them had much of an emotional reaction.  I think that movie is much harder to view for someone who does not believe in the resurection and instead looks at Jesus as a regular man.  To me this was hard to watch because I kept thinking about how tortorous and horrible it was to do this to another human being.  Not believing in Jesus as a God or the son of God and not buying into the whole resurection things makes it hard to stomach.  Those that think he rose days later and floated off to heaven really have an easier time.  Hmmm, kind of reverses the role a bit.