Happy Atheist Forum

I've never been called for jury duty before (aside from when I was in college and got out of it) but have a summons demanding that I do so and am slated to show up at the court house in a couple weeks.

How does the day of process work?  It asked my gender, birth date, race, and religion (n/a was not an option so I chose other).  I'm not sure how making me answer about my religion is legal; it is really none of their business (the other stuff is pretty obvious if you look at me).

I'm in Texas, what are my rights if asked to swear on a bible and/or to God?  What is the proper way to raise disagreement in such a case; I don't want to be held in contempt or go to jail.  I'd actually prefer not to swear at all..it's pointless, if someone wants to lie they are going to do so whether they swore and oath or not.  I don't think any swearing is required unless I'm selected but am not sure....plus I'd like to know in case I get stuck in the hell hole they call jury duty.

My husband thinks it is great that I get to have this "experience" and is "jealous" but he's a history/government geek...I'm not enthused at all.

... when I lived in Texas, they used to have a check-box on the back of the summons that would let you out on mental grounds.
I checked it once, and never got called again!

I agree about the religion question, but it's one you could be asked during the selection process.

As for the bible, not sure there.

What I do know is that the laws and process differ by state, so it may be best to look into the official court sites...

I think I've heard around here there is an option for witnesses to take a secular swearing option, it would be odd if jury members didn't have such an option.  Of course other jury members will know and will look at you funny.
If you do go to jail be sure we'll be protesting, I think I'll start composing a song for the cause just in case.

I was called to jury duty last year, but they did not ask anything regarding my race/religion, just work information. I was not chosen, luckily.

I have heard of people in the GLBT community getting out of jury duty because they are second class citizens, denied rights... hey, maybe you can work it out somehow

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"I think I've heard around here there is an option for witnesses to take a secular swearing option, it would be odd if jury members didn't have such an option.

I work in a court house and have never experienced a secular swearing option, but I would hope one existed here!

I'm in the Air Force and exempt from Jury Duty, but I've been to a few public trials to get a sense of what the legal system is like.  For the swearing in... I've seen one that was done just with the right hand in the air, without a Bible, and it was "I affirm" instead of swear, and there wasn't a "so help me God" at the end.

As for the religious question in the jury duty form... might not end up being an issue for whatever you're being summoned for, but it might.  The prosecutor and defense attorney each get a set number of jurors they can refuse.  If a devout Muslim was on trial for allegedly killing his daughter for dating a Christian boy, the defense attorney might want to use one of his refusals on a prospective juror who considered him/herself fundamentalist Christian, while the prosecutor may want to refuse any Muslims.

Quote from: "fester30"As for the religious question in the jury duty form... might not end up being an issue for whatever you're being summoned for, but it might.  The prosecutor and defense attorney each get a set number of jurors they can refuse.  If a devout Muslim was on trial for allegedly killing his daughter for dating a Christian boy, the defense attorney might want to use one of his refusals on a prospective juror who considered him/herself fundamentalist Christian, while the prosecutor may want to refuse any Muslims.

^^^This

I've never been called to jury duty, so I was unaware that potential jurors were required to swear in at all. I thought it was just the witnesses.  

Quote from: "hismikeness"

Quote from: "fester30"I've never been called to jury duty, so I was unaware that potential jurors were required to swear in at all. I thought it was just the witnesses.  

I think they swear in potential jury members before questioning them during the selection process.  After i posted this I remembered I could easily message two friends who have lived in Texas for a while; if they don't know then I can either ask an even larger group of Texans on facebook or call the jury info number (prefer getting the info from people like me because sometimes the city staff is not exactly accurate).

I'd be scared of being a jurer on a horrific case, one of child rape or where you see graphic photos of a dismembered victim. Some jurers must go home with nightmares sometimes.

Quote from: "Stevil"I'd be scared of being a jurer on a horrific case, one of child rape or where you see graphic photos of a dismembered victim. Some jurers must go home with nightmares sometimes.

I wouldn't be bothered by the photos, I've probably seen it at some point somewhere else  What I would be bothered by is if I had to decide if someone went to jail for a very long time; I think the level of certainty I'd require would be quite high (higher than normal) before I could vote yes to a conviction.

Well, Whitney, I hope you have a better experience than my wife did last month.  She was called - for the first time - spent two entire days waiting around and then was not chosen.  She had really been looking forward to seeing what goes on.

Quote from: "hismikeness"

Quote from: "fester30"As for the religious question in the jury duty form... might not end up being an issue for whatever you're being summoned for, but it might.  The prosecutor and defense attorney each get a set number of jurors they can refuse.  If a devout Muslim was on trial for allegedly killing his daughter for dating a Christian boy, the defense attorney might want to use one of his refusals on a prospective juror who considered him/herself fundamentalist Christian, while the prosecutor may want to refuse any Muslims.

^^^This

I've never been called to jury duty, so I was unaware that potential jurors were required to swear in at all. I thought it was just the witnesses.  :P

Quote from: "OldGit"Well, Whitney, I hope you have a better experience than my wife did last month.  She was called - for the first time - spent two entire days waiting around and then was not chosen.  She had really been looking forward to seeing what goes on.

My ideal experience is the opposite; I show up in the morning and am told I'm not wanted by early afternoon.

I'll give you my experience, but it's based on what happened to me here in Los Angeles and not a Texas court.  They may differ.

For jury duty I reported to the court/jury duty section at 7:30am.  We were all sat in a large room with comfortable chairs and waited until about 8:15am when the instructions began on filling out some papers.  Most of the instruction was on how much time our empolyers paid for jury duty.  One day, two, three...unlimited or no pay.  I fall into the unlimited pay for jury duty.  All these were separated and I'm sure jurors were selected from unlimited to no pay...at least I hope that's why they do it.  We got more instructions, our juror "name" card to clip to our shirts/blouse and told that only in the jury pool room (the room we were in now) would we be referred to by our names.  If sent out to a courtroom, we would be referred to only by our juror number.  Then they went through the people that thought they had financial difficulty, and excuses to get out of jury duty or those that wanted to postpone.  Apparently the jury pools don't get called to courtrooms until about 10am.  So we sat for 45 mins to an hour before the first pools started being called to go to a certain courtroom.

Upon being called to a courtroom, you and another 30-40 jurors go with you and you sit and wait for the court clerk to come out.  She/he will take roll call (by juror number) to make sure everyone called is there and then go back in to report to the judge that all are present.  It may take some time to be called in for jury selection.  It did for us since there were at least 4 cases going on at the same time in the same courtroom.  I now know why the legal system (at least in L.A. is so slow...too many damn court cases)  There are at least two (I think three) courthouses in downtown L.A. and both are full!  The courthouse I was in had 18+ (can't remember exactly) floors and on each floor at least 10 courtrooms (at least from the layout of the floor I was on, not to mention the D.A.'s offices and whatever else there is.)

Once called into the courtroom for jury selection, we all sat in the audience section.  The judge would give some instructions and then random numbers were called.  20 at first.  The jury box was filled, plus the alt juror positions and 6 extra on a third row in front.  The judge would then give more instructions and the each juror would have to give some information.

1.  Where you live. (city)
2.  Occupation
3.  Married or Single
4.  If married, spouses occupation
5.  If you have adult child(ren), what is their occupation(s) or course of study
6.  Prior jury duty?  If so, was a decision made on the case?  Unless you've served on a jury, the answer is "no prior jury service".

Once all this is finished for each of the 20 jurors, then the judge starts to ask questions of hardship, financial troubles in serving jury duty..."Do you feel you would have a certain bias on a case?  Do you know any cops, attorneys, judges, city or state officials...  Lots of questions to weed out potential bias immediately.  He will ask if you've had an exceptionally good experience with law enforcement or an exceptionally bad experience with law enforcement...and ask you to explain.  (it depends on the case involved...I was on a criminal case)  He will ask these and ask for the jurors to raise their hands and one by one each to explain.  He will continue to ask more indepth questions as each juror's answer deems it necessary to gain more information.  He will present hypothetical situations to further understand each juror's position.

Once the questioning (which is very basic and not too involved) is done with the judge, he will ask each attorney, the defense and prosecutor to aske their questions of the jury.  They will probe for bias through basic and general questions and ask lots of "how did that make you feel", "explain your anger..."  If they find a juror they may not want, they will press that juror a bit to make points they want ALL the jurors to know without risking losing a juror they want.

After each attorney has asked their questions and I think it was about 10 minutes each that they were limited to, the judge will call a sidebar and discuss the findings of each.  Once they finish, the judge may release one or some jurors for their hardships or his perception of their inability to be unbiased that he found.  Most people are answering with rediculous answers to simply be released.  Being released doesn't end your jury duty.  You still have to go back to the jury pool in the big room and wait out the day and possibly be called again into another selection pool.  So then each attorney gets a turn to dismiss a juror.  I couldn't figure out how many turns they get as sometimes it was three and other times four or five rounds of dismissing jurors.  As seats are emptied, new jurors are randomly filled from the pool sitting in the audience....and the whole process starts AGAIN for the new jurors...answer the 6 initial questions, then the judges instructions/questions, then the attorney's make their questions again.  They cannot ask questions again of the jurors that were left, but if a juror raises his or her hand to answer again or clairify or change their answer, they can.  It's a long process.

We went through two juror pools and probably went through about 80 jurors in total to arrive at the 14.  12 jurors and 2 alternates.

My experience was positive.  I loved it.  It was totally different and educational for me in better understanding that part of our law system...at least here in L.A.

In the end, I was selected as a juror.  The most difficult thing is sitting and listening without being able to ask questions to clarify the idiocy of the attorney(s).  It took almost 3 days of jury questioning to come up with a jury both the defense and prosecuting attorneys were satisfied with.

The whole process is really interesting and my experience was positive.  I loved it.  I can't wait for next year!

I really hate sitting and listening to boring stuff....maybe I can get out on grounds of financial hardship; I work under contract often with very short notice and having to be in a court room could mean having to turn down work.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "Stevil"I'd be scared of being a jurer on a horrific case, one of child rape or where you see graphic photos of a dismembered victim. Some jurers must go home with nightmares sometimes.

I wouldn't be bothered by the photos, I've probably seen it at some point somewhere else  What I would be bothered by is if I had to decide if someone went to jail for a very long time; I think the level of certainty I'd require would be quite high (higher than normal) before I could vote yes to a conviction.

I don't think it is your job to worry about the punishment. You are there to determine guilt. The punishment is upto the judge and the law system that is in place. It is not you who sentences the person to a long jail term, you are merely looking at the evidence and determining if society would be reasonable in thinking that the person is guilty or not.


Surely if they knew you were needed to moderate this forum 24x7 and the type of mischeif those eveil atheists would get up to if you weren't there to make sure they toed the line.

...

Quote from: "Whitney"I really hate sitting and listening to boring stuff....maybe I can get out on grounds of financial hardship; I work under contract often with very short notice and having to be in a court room could mean having to turn down work.

To me it was all interesting.  Even the interaction between the prosecutor and the defense attorneys.  When one would, "I object..." and get an "overruled" by the judge, she would make all kinds of faces and breathe hard...and the prosecutor would simply smile.  It was lots of fun.

There were a few that claimed finacial hardships, but apparently (at least here in CA) the law has changed and a lot of what was considered a "financial hardship" in the past, no longer is so.  There was two individuals that I can remember that claimed the very same "contract" work both at the jury pool room and in front of the judge.  They weren't let go on that point.  They were, however dismissed by the attorneys and so probably just did the ONE day of jury duty.  Everyone must do at least ONE day of jury duty/pool service.  To get out of it for financial hardship, it must be shown to be one HUGE and provable financial hardship.  

One good way of getting out of doing more than one day of jury duty is to claim you've had a bad dealing with law enforcement and hold a prejudice.  You will be asked about it (not necessarily in detail) and you'll be required to answer according to those feelings.  If the judge feels you cannot be unbiased, he will dismiss you from that selection, but you still have to serve at least the ONE day in the jury pool.

We were told from the beginning that even if the judge dismisses you and tells you "you are done", you are not done and still have to report back to the jury pool room and wait out the day.  The day will end between 4:00pm and 4:30pm, but no sooner.

During the jury selection I witnessed, financial hardship was treated rather harshly. Story after story (this was a capital murder case) of "I work contract/self employed/need a babysitter/mother is dying/wife is pregnant" was ignored and the person remained.

I second Animated Dirt, that expressing some sort of issue with law enforcement is the best best  

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"One good way of getting out of doing more than one day of jury duty is to claim you've had a bad dealing with law enforcement and hold a prejudice.  You will be asked about it (not necessarily in detail) and you'll be required to answer according to those feelings.  If the judge feels you cannot be unbiased, he will dismiss you from that selection, but you still have to serve at least the ONE day in the jury pool.

We were told from the beginning that even if the judge dismisses you and tells you "you are done", you are not done and still have to report back to the jury pool room and wait out the day.  The day will end between 4:00pm and 4:30pm, but no sooner.

I can think of some more ways, but most of them might put YOU in jail.  Not sure if that's the result you want.

However, if you let them know that you are one of those Christians that dance with snakes and you believe that EVERYBODY is guilty of something and that everybody brought in front of a judge should serve jailtime even if it's not for the crime they're being accused of... perhaps then you would be considered too biased?

Quote from: "Whitney"How does the day of process work?

The hardest part for me was finding parking. The lot across from the courthouse here is way too small for the building, and I eventually had to go find other parking, which in downtown San Jose is a bit pricey.

I walked through the front doors, went through a metal detector, and reported to a small waiting room where I signed in and waited for about an hour for my name to be called. Once called, I went with the others who's names had been called into an actual courtroom, which was bigger than I had expected. We all sat in the back and there was a bit of instruction about what to expect. Then numbers were called out, each of which corresponded with a person sitting in the back. I think I was #12. Interestingly enough, my dad had coincidentally been called to be on the same jury. He was also called up.

We both took a seat in the juror section and questioning from the attorneys started. We were asked about objectivity, our history with the topic of the case, and our ability to follow the law. People who were unsatisfactory to the attorneys were excused one by one, to be replaced by more people who were still in the back of the courtroom waiting. The case was about a valet worker who crashed a Volvo car into a young woman. He claimed the gas pedal malfunctioned. When I was asked about my ability to be objective in the case, I answered honestly that I don't believe in the concept of punitive damages for large corporations because the amounts involved are already budgeted out or insured by said corporations, thus rendering the amount paid not punitive at all. I suggested that if a corporation were found negligent or otherwise responsible, they should be fully responsible for simply financially rectifying the situation, paying for attorney, medical, lost wages, and psychological in order for the victim to be made whole again. Volvo's attorney loved me, but the attorney representing the victim was less than thrilled so I was dismissed. I left the building, and drove out to lunch. A few days later, I got a small check, something like $18 per hour I was there.

Had I not been dismissed, I would have remained through the jury selection process, excused to go home, and would have had to return for the trial. I would have heard arguments, examinations, closing statements, and would have had to reach a verdict based on the evidence, followed by being excused. I do not believe I would have been required to swear on a Bible, as my dad wasn't. I suspect I would have been paid at the $18/hr. rate for my time for as long as the trial took, which was about 2 months.

Quote from: "Whitney"I'm in Texas, what are my rights if asked to swear on a bible and/or to God?

You are not legally required to swear on a Bible, as requiring you to do so would be a violation of the First Amendment. They're highly unlikely to press the issue.

Quote from: "Whitney"What is the proper way to raise disagreement in such a case; I don't want to be held in contempt or go to jail.

Treat it like the way you'd speak to a police officer if pulled over. Be direct and respectful. "I will remain objective and follow the law, but I believe swearing on a Bible violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution." That said, it's not likely you will need to be sworn.

I do suggest you try and enjoy the experience. If you're just sitting there resenting it, you will find yourself bored to death and resenting the legal system. You should try and look at it from your husband's perspective if you can. It really is a fascinating system and presents you an opportunity to pur your skeptical, scientific mind to a very important test.

Quote from: "Will"I suspect I would have been paid at the $18/hr. rate for my time for as long as the trial took, which was about 2 months.

Per Hour?!!  In Los Angeles, jury duty pay is $15.00 per jury day!  Hence why people hate doing it if their work does not pay for jury duty.  My work pays unlimited days so I don't even get the $15.00 extra beans per day.  

Parking was free at the Disney Concert Hall (http://www.laphil.com/philpedia/wdch-overview.cfm) in downtown.  It was a few blocks from the courthouse, but free to jurors.

I forgot to mention, we, the jury, were sworn in, but only had to raise a hand and nothing about God or a Bible was anywhere to be found or mentioned.

18/hours....here it is 6 dollars for day one then $60/day thereafter.  If it was 18/hour I'd be more than happy to sit on a jury...that would at least enough to not make it a total loss if I had to lose out on real work.  They sent a free dart (passenger train) pass with the jury summons...so I think I'm going to take that downtown instead of trying to battle traffic and parking.  There is a park and ride station minutes from my house.

Wow!!  $6?  I only got paid $5 for sitting on those old wood benches while the lawyers started arguing even before the jury could be picked
I wasn't picked thankfully, it was an open shut case and seeing as how this is a small town, we all knew about it minutes after it happened.  I'd have thrown the book at the little bastard................

I literally died the last time I was called to jury duty.  It was at the Frank Crowley Courts Building and I was struck by a car while crossing riverfront street.  I was in Parkland for a month but have had a miraculous recovery from the traumatic brain injury that paralyzed my right side.  If that is the site of your summons I would use the sky bridge from the multilevel parking across the street.  But that is not likely to be your experience.  I do suggest you bring some good reading or something to do.  I don't think you will have any issue with the oath as I don't recall God being mentioned in that affirmation.

Also some helpful tactics to use should you be in the Voir dire process.  One time I wore a Dallas Police sweatshirt as my Mom is a retired police officer and it was an aggravated assault case where I maintained eye contact with the defendant most of the time.  These seemed to work as I was dismissed early.  Also be aware that if you are within the front two rows of seating you have a much better chance of being empaneled on the jury.  With that in mind should you be part of the first 15 or so seated you could ask a lot of questions and this way include some opinion so that you can if you want to smuggle in any bias that you think may get you dismissed.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... /Voir_dire (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Voir_dire)

Because of job issues I have not wanted to miss the income but would be willing to serve on a jury given the right circumstances.  In the legal system you are tried by a jury of your peers so it is an interesting process and we should all try to be as objective as we can be as we all want to be judged fairly.  I know that you don't believe we have God given human rights but you can understand how we should all treat each other with the respect that we ourselves want to be treated.  In my Christian worldview we can all see the unfairness of this fallen world so the fairness of objective morals entails that we all value each other and this public service is a small part of that.  Yet I understand if you can't afford the time and you should not have a problem getting out of it if you either can't be objective regarding the particular case in question or can't afford being committed to the time it will take.  Be mindful though that some trials go from Voir dire to verdict in the same day.

No knowledge on this subject, but when I think about it, if I was on trial, I would not like the jury to be composed of religious people. Whether innocent or guilty, I'd want them to be as objective as possible and, this is personal experience speaking, far too many religious people are just not. (limited sample. Compared to non-religious people of a similarly limited sample)

My dad told me that since it it county court that while I'll probably be stuck on a jury that odds are the trial will be done that same day...so I'm not so worried about it now.

Luckily I am exempt from Jury duty, being a "convicted felon", but I like the idea of the mental health get-out.
Although it is annoying that one would need to stoop to such practices.  >:(

I have been called several times and never made it...and I am so disapointed..I would love doing to be part of a jury and do consider it a honor and duty to my community....we have never had enough nurses for me to be gone when I have been summoned...my husband has gone several times but never gave the correct answers or one time the defendent said "hi " and they were released and a new jury had to be picked

you are offered either to "swear" ( with bible)  you can  "afirm" (no bible) I belive this is nation wide

I hope my name gets called again

I work the late night shift at the bowling center. So I'm able to go to jury duty. I did get called a few months ago. Did the calling in for a week. Never got called. Boo. I really wanted to go. I love love LOVE judge shows! I watch them on my cell phone on my break at work! It would be like Judge Judy LIVE and in person! I was even excited when I had to go to traffic school and hear all the  I DIDN'T SEE THE RED LIGHT YOUR HONOR stories. Was quite fun!

I was called for jury duty three years ago in the summer. When the attorneys began questioning of potential jurors, the judge announced that the trial was expected to last three weeks, perhaps more.  It was a medical malpractice lawsuit.  A chorus of groans went up at the announcement.

I had never been through the process before.  I believe it is my duty as a citizen to be there when my name is called.  I would expect the same from other people if my ass were on the line.  

There was actually someone there whom I knew (he had worked for me) and we sat together.  People had various excuses for trying to get out of their obligations, but after the first time we heard "I'm afraid my religious beleifs would conflict with this trial", and was dismissed, it was incredible how many hands were raised when the judge finally simply asked potential jurors en masse if the case would conflict with religious beliefs.  My former worker raised his hand and was dismissed.  I knew him better than that, it was bullshit.  As it was for many of those people, including some who had already been told that their other conflict wouldn't count for dismissal.

In the end, I was chosen.  The trial lasted a month, it was a good experience.  I learned more about the Thyroid in four weeks than I really needed to know in my entire life.  But it also only soured me even more towards religion and how people wield it.

My problem with jury duty is that it doesn't pay well enough to offset the hardship of my not being able to work if called to sit on a jury for more than a day or two.  If I had to sit on a jury for a month I'd be out of a month's pay (getting only a small portion back from the court in compensation) and not being able to work isn't an acceptable excuse to be dismissed.  I think they should take further steps to ensure that being called for long term trials isn't going to cause financial strain on those who would otherwise make more than minimum wage and don't have an employee compensation program for long term jury duty.

I was very happy when all I had to do was show up, be called to a court waiting room then be dismissed because the trial was settled...was home before lunch and able to get my work done.