Apparently, the military has taken control over the country. Erdogan is appealing for the people to take to the streets and resist... I wonder how much support that one actually has left.
From what I can see on web TV, there is a helicopter firing on something. Wonder what. Some sources claim that the people behind the coup control some strategically important buildings and areas, others report that several key coup makers are under arrest. The latest from Norwegian media is that unconfirmed reports claim soldiers firing on civilians in Istanbul.
This, it's been a long time coming, yes?
BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083)
CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/15/asia/turkey-military-action/index.html)
Well, my friends in Turkey are ok for now.
Sounds bad, though. People in the streets. Gunfire.
2016's been a really sucky year for the planet.
President Trump might be the final nail in humanity's coffin...
(or am I too dramatic?)
While Erdoğan has shown himself to be a despicable mountebank, in my opinion, the result from this may not be good for Turkey.
I hope Firebird's wife's family are ok.
The latest is that unconfirmed reports call the coup a failure...
I agree, nothing good will come of it in any case.
If you are going to do a coup, it had better be successful. Now, the architects are dead men, and Erdogan is stronger.
Quote from: Tank on July 16, 2016, 12:56:07 AM
I hope Firebird's wife's family are ok.
They're all OK, thankfully. We were in touch with them for the past few hours on WhatsApp and facebook(when they managed to get around their censors). They were all laying low inside and stayed there.
It looks like it was just a faction of the military, not the whole thing, and it has disintegrated into one big clusterfuck, so much so that my wife and some of her friends wonder if it's a false flag operation to drum up more support for Erdoğan. They took over the main TV station and attacked police stations, but didn't arrest any government officials, including Erdoğan, who called for his supporters to go into the streets and defy the curfew, which they did, and now the military officers are being arrested. So the whole thing has failed, and now Erdoğan will exploit the situation like he always does, and things will continue to get worse.
My in-laws are supposed to come see us in 3 weeks. Hopefully that will still happen.
Quote from: Recusant on July 16, 2016, 12:45:07 AM
While Erdoğan has shown himself to be a despicable mountebank, in my opinion, the result from this may not be good for Turkey.
Even if the coup has failed this is still bad, Erdowan will move even further right.
Quote from: Firebird on July 16, 2016, 05:07:13 AM
Quote from: Tank on July 16, 2016, 12:56:07 AM
I hope Firebird's wife's family are ok.
They're all OK, thankfully. We were in touch with them for the past few hours on WhatsApp and facebook(when they managed to get around their censors). They were all laying low inside and stayed there.
It looks like it was just a faction of the military, not the whole thing, and it has disintegrated into one big clusterfuck, so much so that my wife and some of her friends wonder if it's a false flag operation to drum up more support for Erdoğan. They took over the main TV station and attacked police stations, but didn't arrest any government officials, including Erdoğan, who called for his supporters to go into the streets and defy the curfew, which they did, and now the military officers are being arrested. So the whole thing has failed, and now Erdoğan will exploit the situation like he always does, and things will continue to get worse.
My in-laws are supposed to come see us in 3 weeks. Hopefully that will still happen.
Good to read they are ok. Not much I can say with so little to go on. It will be very interesting to hear your in-laws reports.
It's now clear that the coup has failed. In many ways, that's a pity IMHO.
When I saw that fighter aircraft were involved, last night, I thought it was a useful demonstration of the width of support for the coup. Fine. But now it turns out they've actually bombed parliament in Ankara. That seems well OTT.
Quote from: OldGit on July 16, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
It's now clear that the coup has failed.
Ye, coups are hard to pull off, I prefer poison myself.
That Reman device that took out the Romulan council was cool.
I've seen them on ebay but I'm not sure they're genuine.
They had 5 or was it 8? generals and lots of Colonels.
Did all the colonels know what all the lieutenants were thinking?
Did all the the sergeants have total charge of their charges?
And mobile telephony, what a curse for the modern coupier,,,
couper, coupist, coupmaster general, coupon, guy arranging a coup.
Quote from: OldGit on July 16, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
It's now clear that the coup has failed. In many ways, that's a pity IMHO.
When I saw that fighter aircraft were involved, last night, I thought it was a useful demonstration of the width of support for the coup. Fine. But now it turns out they've actually bombed parliament in Ankara. That seems well OTT.
And why bomb Parliament in the middle of the night in the weekend? What does that accomplish?
Roughly half the country, maybe a little less, hates Erdoğan and would love to see him go, and the military was counting in their support when they launched this. But they didn't get it for whatever reason, partly because of the past history of coups, partly because there is no clear alternative to Erdoğan and his AKP party either. The main opposition party (CHP) is weak and corrupt, and then there's a bunch of smaller parties clamoring for their part of the pie.
The opposition leader came out against the coup. So poorly planned - false flag sounds more feasible the more I hear about the event.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 16, 2016, 03:30:01 PM
The opposition leader came out against the coup. So poorly planned - false flag sounds more feasible the more I hear about the event.
QuoteThe contemporary term false flag describes covert operations that are designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups, or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them
You're such a cynic.
The democratically elected
Palpatine president will take measures to restore order.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on July 16, 2016, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 16, 2016, 03:30:01 PM
The opposition leader came out against the coup. So poorly planned - false flag sounds more feasible the more I hear about the event.
QuoteThe contemporary term false flag describes covert operations that are designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups, or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them
You're such a cynic.
The democratically elected Palpatine president will take measures to restore order.
He has already arrested lots of the judiciary. (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-16/erdogans-counter-coup-begins-turkey-purges-2745-judges-prosecutors-arrests-hundreds)
But then, judges in many Asian and Muslim countries are as much political as legal players.
But could the coup be another excuse to remove another democratic itch from up his arse?
A British ex-colonel, who seems to be still working in this politico-strategic area, has just said, on BBC, that the whole coup stinks and will enable Erdogan to co-opt powers to further his ambitions . . .
He described Erdogan as another Saddam Hussein in the making.
Firebird asked:
QuoteAnd why bomb Parliament in the middle of the night in the weekend? What does that accomplish?
Well, if you think in as cynical a manner as I do in these sort of political circumstances - if you view Erdogan as a leader with strong ambitions towards dictatorship . . .
Any kind of disruption of the process of democratic parliament is gonna help those ambitions.
Just heard, a Turkish government spokesman has just said that it should not be condidered tnat the coup is fully over.
Nice reason to establish special laws and regulations to ensure that all possible opposition to the democratically appointed government is kept under control . . .
Ah! Dictators come and go, but coups... Coups are forever. Yes?
Quote from: Asmodean on July 16, 2016, 06:01:09 PM
Ah! Dictators come and go, but coups... Coups are forever. Yes?
Not if they are chicken coups!
So, there was a coup that seems to have been badly set up. [Later] Just a feeling that most coups last a bit longer and do a bit more general damage than this one
Most of the casualties were civilians rather than armed forces personnel. *
Parts of the coup gave up when confronted by unarmed civilians supporting Erdoğan.
Other parts were overcome by national police.
Another large coup group gave in knowing that they would, in theory, be facing very harsh punishment, if not execution for treason.
Non-strategic, unoccupied, parliamentary locations were bombed.
This might indicate that the forces attacking those locations were against the democratic process.
Cynically the above might apply to both sides.
The countermeasures are extended to the arrest of many members of the judiciary.
It is officially suggested that the coup attempt may not yet be over.
This leaves the door wide open for "special measures".
Sniff, sniff. What the hell is that bloody awful smell!?
*Update: later news indicates possibly 100+ armed forces were killed, about 160 civilians. An analysis of who those people were and where they died would be interesting.
Fish jizz. It's fish jizz.
Erdogan has demonized Fethullah Gulen, a moderate cleric living in the USA. When I read about him he sounds much more rational than most clerics. He will not be extradited, even tho Erdogan has requested this. We still support freedom of speech/religion here, and Gulen denies any involvement in the coup. Erdogan is a demogogue.
Erdoğan's post-coup "purge" is begining to look like an obvious attempt to wipe out all possible opposition. I would not be surprised if oppostion party MPs are not taken in for "questioning" - assuming that has not already started.
It seems that there have been many "confessions" saying that Gulen organised it all and that the Gulen institutes etc are being shut down.
Er, why do I fell sceptical about most of this?
How long before an anti-Kurd progrom, in the guise of self-defence of course, one wonders?
Of course, a lot of the fault seems to lie with the well-educated... Or that's how theyt seem to be trying to spin it. What better way of uniting the unwashed masses behind your banner than point at a guy who has done well and proclaim that his stuff is rightfully their?
Turkey's been slipping for a long time. Currently... Well, at the very least, they've successfully made it onto my fuck-that-place-list.
Quote from: Asmodean on July 23, 2016, 07:38:57 PM
Of course, a lot of the fault seems to lie with the well-educated... Or that's how theyt seem to be trying to spin it. What better way of uniting the unwashed masses behind your banner than point at a guy who has done well and proclaim that his stuff is rightfully their?
Turkey's been slipping for a long time. Currently... Well, at the very least, they've successfully made it onto my fuck-that-place-list.
My emphasis. They have been applying that one to the Jews since the Diaspora! But, they were an easy target for Hitler and others before him, they tended to be naturally good at business (and maths, science etc for that matter) they were rich and therefore, being "foreign" as well, natural targets for envy.