I used to write a lot but the past 10 years not so much. Here's a simple one of mine (simple as in: not controversial):
an imperfection of art (
based on a dream of an ex-girlfriend)
a dream can show you lies
sorrowful good-byes
from the woman you wish to forget
it can show you happiness
gentle waves of bliss
yet seemingly poorly lit
still ..
it's worth to note
in each thought rote
this woman you wish to forget
is that gentle wave of bliss
that shows you happiness
and makes your heart offset
and ..
I know it could be true
this woman who is you
is the one who holds my heart
a ring upon a finger
a soul that could linger
an imperfection of art
I ..
could believe in this dream
an impossible scheme
for you to marry me
yet there's more than you and I
in each tear that is cried
from every touch that we breathe
still ..
a dream can show you lies
a glisten in one's eye
a soul that seems offset
each beat of my heart
that won't stop 'til it starts
from the woman I wish to forget
David Garrett Arnold
January 16 2009
-Nam
No, I am afraid I can't write poetry.
I have no talent for it, can't you see?
...I can do a little rhyming, I guess. The above rhyme actually came to me very naturally (whether that requires any talent whatsoever or not I would not know. >.<), but I've rarely ever tried to actually string a real poem together. The last time I did it was probably 10th grade, where we made a couple for an assignment. lol Even those were nothing close to the level of what you posted!
Thank you for sharing it with us. =)
I do not write poetry
I do not milk a honey bee
I do not like green eggs and ham
I do not like them, Nam you am.
I do a bit of poetry over at Joe's Dump...
Here's a couple:
Seventeens
a poem by Joe J Thomas
cat and humidifier
cars outside
get up to pee at 1:17
neck pain
strange dream
sparks in my brain at 3:17
rising from the deep
work thoughts
reflection
respond to the world
stretching at 4:17
The Kruelest Fruit
a poem by Joe J Thomas
Oh! Tiny orange, how you mock me!
Once the peel is gone, all is empty.
Bitter and pithy; the agony complete.
A broken promise of taste so sweet.
They hide you in baked goods, cookies and pies.
Drench you in sugar and chocolate to cover the lies.
But they cannot conceal the ultimate truth.
Oh! Kumquat you are most certainly the kruelest fruit.
Here's a more controversial poem of mine. Ironically, it's mostly controversial with non-Christians.
99 bottles of love on the wall (NSFW)
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
-Nam
I don't write poetry but I like to rhyme (the more sing-songy the better, IMO).
Fortunately for you folks I won't be sharing anything, though. :run!:
I'm bored. Here's another poem:
I love and always love
I have saved my breath
hold it in my hand
and wash it upon
my chest and
there's more than thought
in each
ashed step
I take forward
I've been in sensual ease
oceans have filled my lungs
and no more than flight
could make more strenuous
in my veins that
seem perturbed
touched lips that haven't touched
hands felt that haven't felt
eyes looked upon eyes
yet
only in backward glances
and broken grass
upon feet that are cold
from the wind that
blows gently forth
and away
sporadic motions
succumb depth that extends
beyond the reach of my
hands
and there's light
shining down
from the obelisk that seems empty
yet filled with hope
and life
I drive too many miles
on dirt roads
that are paved in cement
I feel affliction
pale skin
and I watch her sleep
she's there
in my thoughts
and she's there
always in sensual flowers
jovial smirks
and tiny marks left
by the dagger in which
she holds to my chest
my heart beats
further away from me
farther
away from me
then I ever imagined
and she's there
standing
in front of me
wiping the tear
that shed for
the love I had
that seems to have faded
only in the thought
of not taking
that soft breath
she breathes on my neck
I think more and no more
and always ever more of her
wilted leaves lay in front
of me
I am stoic
torn
broken from
what I know and I wish to know
my affection still holds strong
for she is always
in my heart held within my soul
I love and always love
you
David Garrett Arnold
May 30 2006
-Nam
... an A-Moose-ing poem to start your week...
http://www.joesdump.com/2016/03/21/i-wanna-be-a-moose/
QuoteI Wanna Be A Moose
poetry by Joe J Thomas
I wanna be a moose
And wander through the woods
I'd munch on marshy grasses
And do what mooses should
With my moose wife at my side
A couple kids in tow
We'd amble in the forest
Until the evening glow
The lure of lights would call us
To visit your backyard
To nibble at your gardens
Without the slightest regard
After a dip into the pool
Your kitchen is our aim
There's leftovers in the fridge
And a dog that we can blame
In the morning you awake
To find us in your den
The families are asleep
All the mooses and the men
I see you standing on the stairs
And give a moosey "Hello!"
But you don't speak our language
So out the door we go
Back to the woods with kids behind
Reluctantly we leave
But don't despair; we will return
Some other summer's eve
A friend just challenged me to write a poem in less than a minute. It probably sucks (just wrote it a few minutes ago, haven't read it myself yet) and wrote this in 36 seconds (I can type 120 wpm). So...I haven't really written anything in 2-3 months. It was challenging. It probably does suck. Anyway....here it is:
Hello
it could be less true
any thought, any remembrance
of echoes faltering clouds,
rain even tumbling down--
a gesture of a waved hand,
small child streaking by.
could be less of everything more--
a whisper heard through a broken door, or
just a smile etching itself on a palm
against a face smiling too.
what wonders of ocean pull.
seasons changing with every breath.
summer, winter, spring, and autumn's fall
gently sinking within soulful heart;
nothing more could be said for
"hello" and "goodbye",
busy streets in foggy discourse--
yet it's the palm to cheek,
the butterfly so weak
that allow eyes to meet
between the sand.
it's the whispering bliss
the gentle kiss;
beating of heart--
the goodbye turning into an...
Hello.
David Garrett Arnold
April 09 2016
-Nam
That's actually quite nice, Nam.
Just wrote this, just now. As an aside: I really do not write that often anymore. Who knows how long this'll last. I used to belt out 100 poems a month but the last time that happened regularly was 9-10 years ago.
Anyway, just wrote this a minute ago:
i just wanna write
i wanna write, say something disguised in simple imagery.
watch the sky turn blue then purple then...rain...
oh, the rain: it pours beneath the ebb
feet whispering on top of gentle sand.
the lake pulls the ocean closer still.
past egression, becoming regressed with
every abated breath.
i wanna write, say something meaningfully apt.
watch the sky turn white, bright like a star falling;
pieces of earth wretched and wrung--
quelling the nuances of yesterday's song.
the ocean engulfs the plateau of bated breadth.
listening to cicadas dream of cyprus, willow, and ash.
eyes faltering within eyes; verity whetted in lips.
i just want to write...
about you.
David Garrett Arnold
April 11 2016
-Nam
Nam: I think your past poetic work has really prepped you for stream of consciousness types of poetry.
Quite nice indeed.
I don't write poetry. :(
Most of the time I have a hard time understanding what the poet is trying to say. I try, and I try, but I just can't seem to connect the words and say, "Oh! I see!"
--I don't see. :(
This is what I see when I read a poem:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreviews.123rf.com%2Fimages%2Fswisshippo%2Fswisshippo1107%2Fswisshippo110700025%2F9897627-Egyptian-hieroglyphs-on-the-wall-Stock-Photo-egyptian-hieroglyphics-hieroglyph.jpg&hash=ac041d9db043e90586f29b4a8f6e337df584040e)
:grrr: It's so frustrating.
Quote from: Magdalena on April 12, 2016, 10:13:08 PM
I don't write poetry. :(
Most of the time I have a hard time understanding what the poet is trying to say. I try, and I try, but I just can't seem to connect the words and say, "Oh! I see!"
--I don't see. :(
This is what I see when I read a poem:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreviews.123rf.com%2Fimages%2Fswisshippo%2Fswisshippo1107%2Fswisshippo110700025%2F9897627-Egyptian-hieroglyphs-on-the-wall-Stock-Photo-egyptian-hieroglyphics-hieroglyph.jpg&hash=ac041d9db043e90586f29b4a8f6e337df584040e)
:grrr: It's so frustrating.
Heh. I have the exact same problem most of the time. Late in high school I discovered Emily Dickinson and Robert Frost and thought things had changed for me because I could understand what they were going on about, but they turned out to be a pair of flukes. Forty plus years later, they're still the only poets I can understand.
^^^
I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one.
:secrets1: Can I sit next to you, right now? I'm sure Nam is going to post another one, soon, and I don't want to be the only one doing this while he reads it: :shifty:
Quote from: Magdalena on April 12, 2016, 10:31:51 PM
^^^
I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one.
:secrets1: Can I sit next to you, right now? I'm sure Nam is going to post another one, soon, and I don't want to be the only one doing this while he reads it: :shifty:
Be my guest. I plan to gaze seriously into the distance while listening to music in my head as he rattles on.
Quote from: Magdalena on April 12, 2016, 10:13:08 PM
I don't write poetry. :(
Most of the time I have a hard time understanding what the poet is trying to say. I try, and I try, but I just can't seem to connect the words and say, "Oh! I see!"
--I don't see. :(
This is what I see when I read a poem:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreviews.123rf.com%2Fimages%2Fswisshippo%2Fswisshippo1107%2Fswisshippo110700025%2F9897627-Egyptian-hieroglyphs-on-the-wall-Stock-Photo-egyptian-hieroglyphics-hieroglyph.jpg&hash=ac041d9db043e90586f29b4a8f6e337df584040e)
:grrr: It's so frustrating.
Don't let them make you think that you're to blame for not getting it, Mags. If they can't connect the failure is all theirs... if it even makes any sense at all to the author.
Here's one I didn't even have to make up myself:
Quite vaporous above the flowers
I enjoy hot spells beyond the trees
Intense! The Knight never ends
All heavy among the dream
I find splintering rabbits below the land
Whoa! The Fool was hard
Strange and red over the bullshit
I dream of wanting eggs among the mist
Beware! The stink has vanished
penniless tired
at a crossroads
all his wounds in front
How many times
such a man
seek the road back
while the snow fell
http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html (http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html)
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 12:38:37 AM
Quite vaporous above the flowers
I enjoy hot spells beyond the trees
Intense! The Knight never ends
All heavy among the dream
I find splintering rabbits below the land
Whoa! The Fool was hard
Strange and red over the bullshit
I dream of wanting eggs among the mist
Beware! The stink has vanished
penniless tired
at a crossroads
all his wounds in front
How many times
such a man
seek the road back
while the snow fell
"I dream of wanting eggs among the mist" :mb lol:
I don't "get" much poetry either, Mags. I do like William Blake, though.
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 12:38:37 AM
http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html (http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html)
I gave it a try:
All florescent beside the lightVery poisonous against the fog
I converse with cold leeches under the gods :eyebrow:
Can you dig it? The Queen is hard
Quite desirous before the trees :rofl:
You bend dazzling weirdness over the clouds
Intense! The thought has come
All florescent beside the light
You feel comely teeth before the wind :cracked:
Take cover! The Knight will come :whiteknight:
trusting unsafe
never meeting
something missing
With what memories
my father
leave his home
when the world was new
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 13, 2016, 12:59:34 AM
You bend dazzling weirdness over the clouds
That's the best description of my relatives I've ever read.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 13, 2016, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 12:38:37 AM
http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html (http://www.languageisavirus.com/automatic_poetry_generator.html)
I gave it a try:
All florescent beside the light
Very poisonous against the fog
I converse with cold leeches under the gods :eyebrow:
Can you dig it? The Queen is hard
Quite desirous before the trees :rofl:
You bend dazzling weirdness over the clouds
Intense! The thought has come
All florescent beside the light
You feel comely teeth before the wind :cracked:
Take cover! The Knight will come :whiteknight:
trusting unsafe
never meeting
something missing
With what memories
my father
leave his home
when the world was new
Truly beautiful, a window to your soul.
What starts out as triumph soon becomes finessed into a carnival of temptation, leaving only a sense of chaos and the inevitability of a new order.
(Review courtesy of Arty Bollocks Generator (http://www.artybollocks.com/#abg_short))
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 12:38:37 AM
Don't let them make you think that you're to blame for not getting it, Mags. If they can't connect the failure is all theirs... if it even makes any sense at all to the author.
OK.
Go ahead, Nam, do your thing, man. 8)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm-etropolis.com%2Fjohnbennett%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F18%2F2013%2F07%2FTheatre-stage-curtains-audi.jpg&hash=b5cdd12818c7412b6737a7a6bc2a617ae08454ec)
Quote from: Magdalena on April 13, 2016, 04:17:09 AM
Go ahead, Nam, do your thing, man. 8)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm-etropolis.com%2Fjohnbennett%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F18%2F2013%2F07%2FTheatre-stage-curtains-audi.jpg&hash=b5cdd12818c7412b6737a7a6bc2a617ae08454ec)
P'haps we could get our long-awaited angry rant included on the same bill...?!
Having similar discussions on another board. There are some poems where the particular combination of words sends a chill up my spine, while others leave me flat. Same with music, which is probably a more common experience with most people. It depends on how your brain is wired. If a poem draws you in at the beginning, even though the individual words aren't that astounding, the flow, rhythm and combination of phrases can excite emotion. Different for different people - either it grabs you or it doesn't. So don't be frustrated - it's the poem's, song's, book's job to touch you. Let it do the work. If nothing happens, it just wasn't for you. Nothing more to it.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 12, 2016, 10:20:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 12, 2016, 10:13:08 PM
I don't write poetry. :(
Most of the time I have a hard time understanding what the poet is trying to say. I try, and I try, but I just can't seem to connect the words and say, "Oh! I see!"
--I don't see. :(
This is what I see when I read a poem:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpreviews.123rf.com%2Fimages%2Fswisshippo%2Fswisshippo1107%2Fswisshippo110700025%2F9897627-Egyptian-hieroglyphs-on-the-wall-Stock-Photo-egyptian-hieroglyphics-hieroglyph.jpg&hash=ac041d9db043e90586f29b4a8f6e337df584040e)
:grrr: It's so frustrating.
Heh. I have the exact same problem most of the time. Late in high school I discovered Emily Dickinson and Robert Frost and thought things had changed for me because I could understand what they were going on about, but they turned out to be a pair of flukes. Forty plus years later, they're still the only poets I can understand.
You understood them because they're literalists.
-Nam
Hahaha, Oooohhh Books you just got dissed.
The Cows on Killing Day
By Les Murray
All me are standing on feed. The sky is shining.
All me have just been milked. Teats all tingling still
from that dry toothless sucking by the chilly mouths
that gasp loudly in in in, and never breathe out.
All me standing on feed, move the feed inside me.
One me smells of needing the bull, that heavy urgent me,
the back-climber, who leaves me humped, straining, but light
and peaceful again, with crystalline moving inside me.
Standing on wet rock, being milked, assuages the calf-sorrow in me.
Now the me who needs mounts on me, hopping, to signal the bull.
The tractor comes trotting in its grumble; the heifer human
bounces on top of it, and cud comes with the tractor,
big rolls of tight dry feed: lucerne, clovers, buttercup, grass,
that's been bitten but never swallowed, yet is cud.
She walks up over the tractor and down it comes, roll on roll
and all me following, eating it, and dropping the good pats.
The heifer human smells of needing the bull human
and is angry. All me look nervously at her
as she chases the dog me dream of horning dead: our enemy
of the light loose tongue. Me'd jam him in his squeals.
Me, facing every way, spreading out over feed.
One me is still in the yard, the place skinned of feed.
Me, old and sore-boned, little milk in that me now,
licks at the wood. The oldest bull human is coming.
Me in the peed yard. A stick goes out from the human
and cracks, like the whip. Me shivers and falls down
with the terrible, the blood of me, coming out behind an ear.
Me, that other me, down and dreaming in the bare yard.
All me come running. It's like the Hot Part of the sky
that's hard to look at, this that now happens behind wood
in the raw yard. A shining leaf, like off the bitter gum tree
is with the human. It works in the neck of me
and the terrible floods out, swamped and frothy. All me make the Roar,
some leaping stiff-kneed, trying to horn that worst horror.
The wolf-at-the-calves is the bull human. Horn the bull human!
But the dog and the heifer human drive away all me.
Looking back, the glistening leaf is still moving.
All of dry old me is crumpled, like the hills of feed,
and a slick me like a huge calf is coming out of me.
The carrion-stinking dog, who is calf of human and wolf,
is chasing and eating little blood things the humans scatter,
and all me run away, over smells, toward the sky.
Quote from: Crow on April 13, 2016, 02:35:39 PM
Hahaha, Oooohhh Books you just got dissed.
I wasn't trying to diss them but okay.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 13, 2016, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: Crow on April 13, 2016, 02:35:39 PM
Hahaha, Oooohhh Books you just got dissed.
I wasn't trying to diss them but okay.
-Nam
Crow's in his own world.
My point stands, though. They were literal writers. Which ironically, why Christians tend not to understand the Bible because they view it as being literal when it's mainly not. Why there are so many versions, incorrect translations etc., of the Bible because what is literal is taken literal but what is figurative or allegorical is also taken literal. I've read and heard Christians read parables (allegories) from the Bible and taken them as being literal. I responded once, "That's an oxymoron." and the person responded back, "Who you callin' a moron?".
Idiots.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 13, 2016, 09:59:04 PM
My point stands, though. They were literal writers.
Which is indeed why I like and understand them. I don't do symbolism.
QuoteWhich ironically, why Christians tend not to understand the Bible because they view it as being literal when it's mainly not. Why there are so many versions, incorrect translations etc., of the Bible because what is literal is taken literal but what is figurative or allegorical is also taken literal. I've read and heard Christians read parables (allegories) from the Bible and taken them as being literal.
Lewis Black does a bit on this in his act, pointing out that if Xtian fundies would just ask Jewish rabbis -- part of the group who first told these stories -- they would be told they were always metaphorical, and ignorant goat-herders 2,000 years ago would have laughed at the fundies for taking them literally.
The first time I read the bible all the way thru, I read it literally, as I'd been taught to, and much of it was so absurd and appalling that it helped start me on the road to atheism, which is why I always encourage people to read the bible. The second time I read it, many years later, I read it as fairy tales and fables, and it actually made a lot more sense -- not complete sense, but more sense than it did when read literally. Xtians often complain when atheists call their bible fairy tales, and perhaps we should be glad they don't realize how much of an improvement that makes in it.
But back to the subject at hand. No, I do not write poetry, but I have sometimes tried to put a haiku together because that seems to me more like working a jigsaw puzzle than writing poetry.
For all you haters of poetry, I wrote this over four years ago:
Drowkcab
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
nicks ym tsniaga pu gnihsurb era
thguoht yreve thaerb yreve htiw
sdnop delppir ni setarbiv taht
uoy htiw efil a enigami nac I
odneunni tghils dna spiuq fo serutseg ni
gnivil htrow efil a llits tey
rof gnithgif htrow evol a dna
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
traeh ym dnuora gnivaew era
tguoht yreve dna htaerb yreve htiw
luos ym etarebrever taht
David Garrett Arnold
January 26 2012
-Nam
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 13, 2016, 11:20:57 PM
While we're on the topic, a rant on modern art, which I agree with:
Bunch of people standing and staring at something and saying vacuous crap like
QuoteAs spatial forms become frozen through studious and academic practice, the viewer is left with a hymn to the darkness of our future.
(Generated using Siz's Arty Bollocks Generator (http://www.artybollocks.com/#abg_short)) :grin:
QuoteMy work explores the relationship between the Military-Industrial Complex and urban spaces.
(Generated using Siz's Arty Bollocks Generator) :grin:
Quote from: Nam on April 14, 2016, 12:32:45 AM
For all you haters of poetry, I wrote this over four years ago:
Drowkcab
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
nicks ym tsniaga pu gnihsurb era
thguoht yreve thaerb yreve htiw
sdnop delppir ni setarbiv taht
uoy htiw efil a enigami nac I
odneunni tghils dna spiuq fo serutseg ni
gnivil htrow efil a llits tey
rof gnithgif htrow evol a dna
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
traeh ym dnuora gnivaew era
tguoht yreve dna htaerb yreve htiw
luos ym etarebrever taht
David Garrett Arnold
January 26 2012
-Nam
I hate you and your dna.
^^^
:snicker:
I wrote a quiz on poetry (actually it's my third or fourth one there), play "Page Format" that way you can take your time, if a member don't forget to rate it.
http://www.funtrivia.com/trivia-quiz/Literature/What-Poem-are-These-Verses-From-380398.html
-Nam
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 14, 2016, 02:54:25 AM
I hate you and your dna.
Get in line. It's pretty long, bring a chair.
;)
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 14, 2016, 12:32:45 AM
For all you haters of poetry, I wrote this over four years ago:
Drowkcab
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
nicks ym tsniaga pu gnihsurb era
thguoht yreve thaerb yreve htiw
sdnop delppir ni setarbiv taht
uoy htiw efil a enigami nac I
odneunni tghils dna spiuq fo serutseg ni
gnivil htrow efil a llits tey
rof gnithgif htrow evol a dna
uoy rof gnivah m'I sgnileef eseht
traeh ym dnuora gnivaew era
tguoht yreve dna htaerb yreve htiw
luos ym etarebrever taht
David Garrett Arnold
January 26 2012
-Nam
That would probably resonate with Bruce. :P
Your poem gave me an idea, Nam. I've adapted some of my favourite verses (by William Blake).
To see a wrold in a grian of snad,
And a haeevn in a wlid flwoer,
Hlod inifinty in the palm of yuor hnad,
And etrneity in an huor.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 14, 2016, 03:18:52 PM
Your poem gave me an idea, Nam. I've adapted some of my favourite verses (by William Blake).
To see a wrold in a grian of snad,
And a haeevn in a wlid flwoer,
Hlod inifinty in the palm of yuor hnad,
And etrneity in an huor.
That's not difficult to read since people do not actually read every letter in a word.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 14, 2016, 03:21:12 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 14, 2016, 03:18:52 PM
Your poem gave me an idea, Nam. I've adapted some of my favourite verses (by William Blake).
To see a wrold in a grian of snad,
And a haeevn in a wlid flwoer,
Hlod inifinty in the palm of yuor hnad,
And etrneity in an huor.
That's not difficult to read since people do not actually read every letter in a word.
-Nam
Exactly :grin: I like typoglycemia.
Quote from: Nam on April 14, 2016, 02:54:41 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 14, 2016, 02:54:25 AM
I hate you and your dna.
Get in line. It's pretty long, bring a chair.
;)
-Nam
I'll bring cookies too, we might get hungry. By the way, your poem sounds like song lyrics, are you sure you didn't write "Feelings"?
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 14, 2016, 11:32:43 PM
Quote from: Nam on April 14, 2016, 02:54:41 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 14, 2016, 02:54:25 AM
I hate you and your dna.
Get in line. It's pretty long, bring a chair.
;)
-Nam
I'll bring cookies too, we might get hungry. By the way, your poem sounds like song lyrics, are you sure you didn't write "Feelings"?
Can I come to your party?
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
BCE, remember the other poetry thread we had a while back? I think we spoke there for the first time...When
Asmo posted his poems... :rofl:
...I'm sorry,
Asmo... :grin:
Anyways, we started talking about
Asmo and a piñata, and hitting the piñata and watching all of
Asmo's candy and confetti....
Nevermind, it was fun. ;D
What I'm saying is that I think poetry brings us, you and me, closer...who knows why. Maybe because we both have issues with it. :grin:
Go ahead,
Nam. Post another one, please. :tellmemore:
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
Can I come to your party?
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
Of course, join right in! Can you bring the punch?
QuoteBCE, remember the other poetry thread we had a while back? I think we spoke there for the first time...When Asmo posted his poems... :rofl:
...I'm sorry, Asmo... :grin:
Anyways, we started talking about Asmo and a piñata, and hitting the piñata and watching all of Asmo's candy and confetti....
Nevermind, it was fun. ;D
Oh gosh, I have only vague memories of yearning for a Trump pinata at some point. I think the Asmo poetry may have caused me to blank everything from my mind. :o
QuoteWhat I'm saying is that I think poetry brings us, you and me, closer...who knows why. Maybe because we both have issues with it. :grin:
Go ahead, Nam. Post another one, please. :tellmemore:
I think you are right so, yes, please Nam, roll out another one.
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
The art derail (sorry Nam!) has been given its own physical forum space now :grin:
Link to the thread: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0)
Carry on. :smilenod:
Thank you, xSilverPhinx. :hug:
Go ahead, Nam.
Poem! Poem! Poem! Poem! :lynch:
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 02:53:37 PM
Thank you, xSilverPhinx. :hug:
Go ahead, Nam.
Poem! Poem! Poem! Poem! :lynch:
Okay...I got two marriage proposals from some obviously desperate women for this poem.
;)
rivergreenI could not hope more to breathe
in each luminescent aura
where wind carries leaves beyond
each silhouette of your form
It could be the happiness growing
like the leaf to the root
or the touch of a lip upon a lip
upon the single wave salted in
rivergreen eyes
like tears wiped from the face
gazing upon the autumn sun
gently slipping into the womb
of the earth
I could not hope more to breathe
in each whisper you echo in my heart
where the wind carries us beyond
the silhouette of the moon
David Garrett Arnold
May 08 2013
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 02:53:37 PM
Thank you, xSilverPhinx. :hug:
Go ahead, Nam.
Poem! Poem! Poem! Poem! :lynch:
Okay...I got two marriage proposals from some obviously desperate women for this poem.
;)
rivergreen
I could not hope more to breathe
in each luminescent aura
where wind carries leaves beyond
each silhouette of your form
It could be the happiness growing
like the leaf to the root
or the touch of a lip upon a lip
upon the single wave salted in
rivergreen eyes
like tears wiped from the face
gazing upon the autumn sun
gently slipping into the womb
of the earth
I could not hope more to breathe
in each whisper you echo in my heart
where the wind carries us beyond
the silhouette of the moon
David Garrett Arnold
May 08 2013
-Nam
Pardon me for being a pathetic literalist, but I see no tangible story here. No continuity of ideas (except for the repetition of one sadly unfulfilled line) or coherent link from any line to the next. I see a collection of disparate sentences which barely make sense within themselves.
If you actually have a clue as to what it all means can you please explain it to me in simple, literal terms?
No. I don't explain my work. Well, I rarely explain my work. You either get it, or you don't. And if your interpretation is different than mine, I'm okay with that. If you think it's crap, I'm also okay with that. But I'm not going to explain it to you, or anyone else. Figure it out for yourself. It's how I learned to read poetry.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 07:00:45 PM
No. I don't explain my work. Well, I rarely explain my work. You either get it, or you don't. And if your interpretation is different than mine, I'm okay with that. If you think it's crap, I'm also okay with that. But I'm not going to explain it to you, or anyone else. Figure it out for yourself. It's how I learned to read poetry.
-Nam
No, didn't think so...
Anyone else care to take a stab at this?
Here, this is somewhat literal. It's really long and inspired by the poet Michael Lally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Lally_(poet))
a chickenshit (NSFW)
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 07:00:45 PM
No. I don't explain my work. Well, I rarely explain my work. You either get it, or you don't. And if your interpretation is different than mine, I'm okay with that. If you think it's crap, I'm also okay with that. But I'm not going to explain it to you, or anyone else. Figure it out for yourself. It's how I learned to read poetry.
-Nam
It's like jokes -- if you have to explain it, it doesn't work.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 15, 2016, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
The art derail (sorry Nam!) has been given its own physical forum space now :grin:
Link to the thread: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0)
Carry on. :smilenod:
Yay, xSPx! I could never figure out how to do that.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 15, 2016, 08:45:04 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 15, 2016, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
The art derail (sorry Nam!) has been given its own physical forum space now :grin:
Link to the thread: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0)
Carry on. :smilenod:
Yay, xSPx! I could never figure out how to do that.
It's actually quite easy with SMF. I could show you but I'm not a mod (nor am I advocating/hinting to be one).
-Nam
Quote from: Siz on April 15, 2016, 07:05:20 PM
Anyone else care to take a stab at this?
I haven't read poetry in years and never been good at it except for the stuff TMP post but I will have a go.
The first section is about being in awe of the person. The middle is about coming together be it figuratively or literally, implicit or explicit perhaps both, the usage of rivergreen comes across as something personal. The end is similar to the beginning but with element about the happiness at where the relationship could go.
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
Okay...I got two marriage proposals from some obviously desperate women for this poem.
;)
rivergreen
I could not hope more to breathe
in each luminescent aura
where wind carries leaves beyond
each silhouette of your form
:headscratch:
This part is probably about what the other person looks like.
This part is probably about....
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
It could be the happiness growing
like the leaf to the root
or the touch of a lip upon a lip
upon the single wave salted in
rivergreen eyes
like tears wiped from the face
gazing upon the autumn sun
gently slipping into the womb
of the earth
I could not hope more to breathe
in each whisper you echo in my heart
where the wind carries us beyond
the silhouette of the moon
David Garrett Arnold
May 08 2013
-Nam
This is....about....Wait...Um....Hmm...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgif-finder.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F03%2FGollum-Confused.gif&hash=f6eb6519c193a136048dbce342c87e6102067192)
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 15, 2016, 08:45:04 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 15, 2016, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 15, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
You see, I came here because I thought this was about "The Art of Poetry Recitation," but..um...most people went to the other room to talk about other stuff. :shifty: I think I like it here better, with you two.
The art derail (sorry Nam!) has been given its own physical forum space now :grin:
Link to the thread: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=14399.0)
Carry on. :smilenod:
Yay, xSPx! I could never figure out how to do that.
Apparently it was a pain before the Great Crash, now it's quite simple. You can select which posts you want to split et voilà! :smilenod:
Quote from: Siz on April 15, 2016, 07:05:20 PM
Anyone else care to take a stab at this?
I'll try.
Quote from: Nam on April 15, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
rivergreen
This is the title...
QuoteI could not hope more to breathe
in each luminescent aura
where wind carries leaves beyond
each silhouette of your form
It could be the happiness growing
like the leaf to the root
or the touch of a lip upon a lip
upon the single wave salted in
rivergreen eyes
like tears wiped from the face
gazing upon the autumn sun
gently slipping into the womb
of the earth
I could not hope more to breathe
in each whisper you echo in my heart
where the wind carries us beyond
the silhouette of the moon
Um...
:P
My turn! My turn!
QuoteI could not hope more to breathe
in each luminescent aura
Ummm... "luminescent aura". Reminds me of a blissful feeling.
Quotewhere wind carries leaves beyond
each silhouette of your form
Sounds like two people outside at night (thus the silhouette part)
QuoteIt could be the happiness growing
like the leaf to the root
Leaf to the root. Sounds perverted. Like the guy has a hard on for the girl.
Quoteor the touch of a lip upon a lip
Kissing?
Quoteupon the single wave salted in
rivergreen eyes
They're at a beach or by a river maybe, and she has green eyes?
Quotelike tears wiped from the face
gazing upon the autumn sun
Maybe they're virgins, and it's their first time. Just a guess.
Quotegently slipping into the womb
of the earth
Sounds like he penetrated her.
QuoteI could not hope more to breathe
in each whisper you echo in my heart
Love. He's in love with her. How sweet.
Quotewhere the wind carries us beyond
the silhouette of the moon
Dude, Nam is a pervert. He wrote about two people having sex on the beach at night for the first time. But at least they're in love so while still a pervert, he's a sweet pervert.
That's my take.
-Nam
Thank you, Nam. You make it sound like you're not actually sure yourself with your explanations.
I guess some poetry is just personal; not so much about communicating ideas to another person but about putting a personal thought onto paper (so to speak). Not necessarily for the appreciation of the public.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:34:39 AM
Thank you, Nam.
I guess some poetry is just personal; not so much about communicating ideas to another person but about putting a personal thought onto paper (so to speak). Not necessarily for the appreciation of the public.
I don't know what you're on about. I just gave my interpretation.
;)
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 01:36:19 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:34:39 AM
Thank you, Nam.
I guess some poetry is just personal; not so much about communicating ideas to another person but about putting a personal thought onto paper (so to speak). Not necessarily for the appreciation of the public.
I don't know what you're on about. I just gave my interpretation.
;)
-Nam
Interpretation? Didn't you write it?! Or were you just chanelling?
I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. Was that misplaced?
Here's a poem that's personal and from a period in my life 10 years ago. A favorite amongst many of my readers:
personal exchange of information that is lethargic and weak
The qualities which a man seeks in his beloved are those
characteristics of his own soul, whether he knows it or not.
-Plato
there's music in the background,
piano keys hitting softly
touching every thought
that is displayed
beneath my
fingertips within the hours
before I took more than
the pills more than
the regret
of the drink I wished not to
salivate
beneath the
ember-smell
of the morning that woke
me to dreams of wanting something
more than myself and only
thinking of you
I wrote you
a letter that I
had not sent
never would
or the inclination
to
I wrote you
another book
felt
you between the
pages
of each tear
I cried
there was something more than me
there was something more than
you
it was more than just a touch
more than
a look
it was simple and elegant
I could feel more than
your hand
on my heart
on my
chest
loving me
too
yet not
you never did
I
never did
I held on to the locket that
disappeared in the fields
the love that I felt wasn't real
or I hoped and dreamed
each tear was just recognition
or definition
of something
anything
I can see you standing once again
in the library, the lights out, the darkness
estranged from itself
I can see you standing once again
holding on to me not letting go
pure happiness
love
that exists and not just said
I cried last night I didn't want to
yet did
is that personal enough for you or must
I shed more tears must I tear
my dreams in front of you and show you the
anguish I feel in compulsory reflection
"I have loved and lost..." and loved again
and never again and envied others
no jealousy has bled me
just fuckin' envious letters in bottles
thrown out to sea
age broken in turmoil and all other
drowned apathetical distinctions
I am the man with a soul who doesn't
know where his is at
out to sea
or beneath the water held in my eyes
I am the man with a heart who doesn't
know where his belongs
beneath the leaves
or out to sea on the ship that sails expectantly
I cried last night
tears down my cheeks
and onto my pillow
I didn't wipe them away
I wanted to feel them
I wanted to feel...
David Garrett Arnold
March 09 2006
Nam
Hold on. Can we clear up the previous mess before engaging with another...?!
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 01:36:19 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:34:39 AM
Thank you, Nam.
I guess some poetry is just personal; not so much about communicating ideas to another person but about putting a personal thought onto paper (so to speak). Not necessarily for the appreciation of the public.
I don't know what you're on about. I just gave my interpretation.
;)
-Nam
Interpretation? Didn't you write it?! Or were you just chanelling?
I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. Was that misplaced?
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:17:48 AM
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Did you not study literature in school? It is a huge part of that, read a piece of literature and analysis it, often line by line. It is about reading comprehension, having an opinion on the words written, and expressing them in a coherent manner rather than getting the exact intention of the author.
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:17:48 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 01:36:19 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 01:34:39 AM
Thank you, Nam.
I guess some poetry is just personal; not so much about communicating ideas to another person but about putting a personal thought onto paper (so to speak). Not necessarily for the appreciation of the public.
I don't know what you're on about. I just gave my interpretation.
;)
-Nam
Interpretation? Didn't you write it?! Or were you just chanelling?
I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. Was that misplaced?
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Thanks for insulting me. Let's forego the fact I spent 10+ years critiquing works to make those who want to be poets better at being so. The 50,000+ works spanning 3-4 poetry websites I took the time out of my busy life to critique means nothing from a comment like yours.
Fuck you very much.
-Nam
I don't know if you're talking to me, Nam, but I don't think I insulted you. Please tell me where I did. I think I was trying to compliment you. You probably know something, I don't. That's what I tried to say. I can read, I understand what I read, but I don't understand poetry, yours or anyone's. That's my problem, not yours, is it?
Quote from: Crow on April 16, 2016, 02:31:16 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:17:48 AM
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Did you not study literature in school? It is a huge part of that, read a piece of literature and analysis it, often line by line. It is about reading comprehension, having an opinion on the words written, and expressing them in a coherent manner rather than getting the exact intention of the author.
Crow, please leave me alone right now, I want to talk to the poet, not you.
Quote from: Crow on April 16, 2016, 02:31:16 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:17:48 AM
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Did you not study literature in school? It is a huge part of that, read a piece of literature and analysis it, often line by line. It is about reading comprehension, having an opinion on the words written, and expressing them in a coherent manner rather than getting the exact intention of the author.
Dissecting a piece of literature line by line is EXACTLY to establish the intention of the author. Only then can you give a reasoned opinion of the piece. This does presuppose that the author did, actually, intend a meaning to each and every line. Where that is in question the exercise is futile - just like assigning meaning to a splot of paint that many try to pass off as 'Art'. If Nam is unable to offer a definitive meaning behind his own words - each and every one of them - then I am insulted and angered that he is inviting me to read and invest thought on analysing his work on which he has not, himself, invested any thought.
In response to what Mags wrote, I get the impression that amateur authors of poetry choose words and phrasing solely because they sound 'poetic' and not because they actually mean anything. The fact that some quality poetry is non-literal and somewhat inaccessible is a useful smokesceen for lazy, vacuous writing - giving the impression of poetry but with no substance. The author, shallowly smug at his own poetic genius, blames a reader's lack of comprehension on literalist obtuseness or literary incompetence. Do you remember ever as a little kid making little illegible scribbles on a piece of paper pretending to do grown-up writing? That's what this reminds me of.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 04:00:48 AM
.....
In response to what Mags wrote, I get the impression that amateur authors of poetry choose words and phrasing solely because it sounds 'poetic' and not because it actually means anything. The fact that some quality poetry is non-literal and somewhat inaccessible is a useful smokesceen for lazy, inane writing - giving the impression of poetry but with no real substance on analysis. The author sits back, shallowly smug at his poetic genius and blames a lack of understanding on the reader's literalist obtuseness or literary incompetence. Do you remember ever as a little kid making little illegible scribbles on a piece of paper pretending to do grown-up writing? That's what this reminds me of.
It all goes back to what you said at the beginning, doesn't it?
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 12:38:37 AM
Don't let them make you think that you're to blame for not getting it, Mags. If they can't connect the failure is all theirs... if it even makes any sense at all to the author.
When I was in 3rd grade, about 500 years ago, ;D in El Salvador, we studied poetry. I remember many poems and poets from Latin America. Even 550 years later I still remember,
Ascensión, by Alfredo Espino. I must have been 8 years old, but I remember it, I remember what it made me feel, it was beautiful. The poet describes what he sees from the summit. It's like a beautiful painting, I can see what he sees, clearly, he was able to make me feel the cool wind in my hair. :tellmemore:
Not everyone can do that. I agree with you, maybe, the sentence "sounds 'poetic'" but that's not enough, the whole thing has to connect, from beginning to end.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 04:00:48 AM
Quote from: Crow on April 16, 2016, 02:31:16 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:17:48 AM
That's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!"
:grrr:
Did you not study literature in school? It is a huge part of that, read a piece of literature and analysis it, often line by line. It is about reading comprehension, having an opinion on the words written, and expressing them in a coherent manner rather than getting the exact intention of the author.
Dissecting a piece of literature line by line is EXACTLY to establish the intention of the author. Only then can you give a reasoned opinion of the piece. This does presuppose that the author did, actually, intend a meaning to each and every line. Where that is in question the exercise is futile - just like assigning meaning to a splot of paint that many try to pass off as 'Art'. If Nam is unable to offer a definitive meaning behind his own words - each and every one of them - then I am insulted and angered that he is inviting me to read and invest thought on analysing his work on which he has not, himself, invested any thought.
In response to what Mags wrote, I get the impression that amateur authors of poetry choose words and phrasing solely because they sound 'poetic' and not because they actually mean anything. The fact that some quality poetry is non-literal and somewhat inaccessible is a useful smokesceen for lazy, vacuous writing - giving the impression of poetry but with no substance. The author, shallowly smug at his own poetic genius, blames a reader's lack of comprehension on literalist obtuseness or literary incompetence. Do you remember ever as a little kid making little illegible scribbles on a piece of paper pretending to do grown-up writing? That's what this reminds me of.
I'm not an amateur. I'm not only published worldwide, I've been paid for it on occasion. I do not interpret my work for people, nor do I go to poetry houses (cafes, slams) and read my work in front of people because I write it for them to read it, understand it in their viewpoint (or not), like it or not like it at their leisure. I feel if I, as the writer, have to explain everything I write to the reader then I fail as a writer. However, people who do not understand what is written have no business reading it to begin with. That makes them illiterate in the whole form itself.
I don't read something and say, "I don't get it" and then blame the author for not explaining it afterward. It isn't their job to explain it. I also don't say, "Well, I didn't understand it but I like it." That's nonsensical and stated by a lot of illiterate people in concern to poetry. And when I say "illiterate" my meaning is sort of like dyslexia. Like with me I have Dyscalculia. I don't blame the problem, or who came up with the problem for my disability to solve them.
One attempts to take things line by line. And that's with anything. Unless you have a disability like I do with math then it isn't that you do not understand it's that you don't want to understand. I would love to understand math but I don't. And not from a lack of trying it just is nonsense to me. Nonsense not by choice.
What's your excuse?
-Nam
So, you're saying that if at first I don't understand something I have no business reading it? Well, that puts a fair few scholars out of business doesn't it?! Fuck me, what a stupid thing to say!
Nam, you have just validated everything I wrote and insulted your entire audience.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
So, you're saying that if at first I don't understand something I have no business reading it? Well, that puts a fair few scholars out of business doesn't it?! Fuck me, what a stupid thing to say!
Nam, you have just validated everything I wrote and insulted your entire audience.
I don't know -- I think I get what Nam is saying. It is like telling jokes, the audience either gets it or they don't and if you explain it, it just ruins the joke. I also think that if someone, like Mags or myself, has a fairly consistent inability to understand poetry that's something going sideways on our end rather than something wrong with nearly every poet in the history of humanity.
I know in my case I tend to be very literal-minded and that doesn't lend itself easily to appreciation of any kind of art. And I'm going to stop there because I don't want this to turn into another art appreciation derail. Art is such a minefield.
:popcorn:
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 16, 2016, 08:54:15 AM
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
So, you're saying that if at first I don't understand something I have no business reading it? Well, that puts a fair few scholars out of business doesn't it?! Fuck me, what a stupid thing to say!
Nam, you have just validated everything I wrote and insulted your entire audience.
I don't know -- I think I get what Nam is saying. It is like telling jokes, the audience either gets it or they don't and if you explain it, it just ruins the joke. I also think that if someone, like Mags or myself, has a fairly consistent inability to understand poetry that's something going sideways on our end rather than something wrong with nearly every poet in the history of humanity.
I know in my case I tend to be very literal-minded and that doesn't lend itself easily to appreciation of any kind of art. And I'm going to stop there because I don't want this to turn into another art appreciation derail. Art is such a minefield.
I believe the saying goes "If you have to explain the joke it isn't funny".
I, too, am left brain dominant. But that by no means precludes an appreciation of beauty (or whatever characteristic) - or a respect of others appreciation of beauty where I see none. I'm not saying every inaccessible poet is talking shit (indeed, some inaccessible poetry is beautiful in more ways than just the meaning of its words (rhythm, rhyme, creating a mood, clever imagery and metaphore, even the shape of the words on the page...etc...)). I'm saying that thoughtless, vacuous shit is often passed off as poetry by playing on (and perpetuating) the pretentiousness and insecurity of the reader. I am sufficiently comfortable in my own literacy and understanding of poetry not to be bullied into giving merit to a group of sentences simply because they have been manufactured to sound superficially like the thoughtful writing of others.
Explaining things is usually frowned upon in writing, but you as the writer still would have to show the reader with your words and metaphors what you're writing about so that they don't need explaining in the first place. I disagree that in most cases if the audience doesn't get it, it's the audience's fault. That way bad writing gets passed off as "too elitist/too good" for the common reader to understand.
Writing difficult while employing some weird metaphors for the sake of writing difficult shouldn't be the purpose of poetry. It should be, among other things, about seeing the world in a different way, a way that the reader probably hasn't ever thought of before.
Books compared reading poetry to getting a joke. Seems to me in some cases it's more like an inside joke, where only a select few, including the author, have sufficient contextual knowledge about the poem to interpret in a way not to be deemed "illiterate" by the club.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 04:00:48 AM
Dissecting a piece of literature line by line is EXACTLY to establish the intention of the author. Only then can you give a reasoned opinion of the piece. This does presuppose that the author did, actually, intend a meaning to each and every line. Where that is in question the exercise is futile - just like assigning meaning to a splot of paint that many try to pass off as 'Art'. If Nam is unable to offer a definitive meaning behind his own words - each and every one of them - then I am insulted and angered that he is inviting me to read and invest thought on analysing his work on which he has not, himself, invested any thought.
In response to what Mags wrote, I get the impression that amateur authors of poetry choose words and phrasing solely because they sound 'poetic' and not because they actually mean anything. The fact that some quality poetry is non-literal and somewhat inaccessible is a useful smokesceen for lazy, vacuous writing - giving the impression of poetry but with no substance. The author, shallowly smug at his own poetic genius, blames a reader's lack of comprehension on literalist obtuseness or literary incompetence. Do you remember ever as a little kid making little illegible scribbles on a piece of paper pretending to do grown-up writing? That's what this reminds me of.
Of course it is to derive meaning but seeing as the author in a literature class isn't present then you can't get the exact meaning, as many people get different interpretations from all literature. For example some people think Harry Potter is a tale of a child going crazy due to abuse, other people think the bible is literal, etc. The only person that can give a definitive answer to that is the author. Literature class is about critical thinking. I remember having quite a famous author come in no idea what there name was and the teacher after weeks of going line by line through one of their books started asking questions on the meaning of parts of his book his reply was "there is no meaning, I write because I enjoy it".
I get the frustration in not getting a reply from the author but they can give as much or little as they like and not required to give any answer, if you think it is rubbish then that is your opinion many others will share it and others wont but at least you can give an answer in why you dislike it that is critical. I thought I got quite close to the meaning of what the author wrote but then that might have been after the fact as you can post rationalise anything.
Quote from: Crow on April 16, 2016, 12:29:30 PM
I remember having quite a famous author come in no idea what there name was and the teacher after weeks of going line by line through one of their books started asking questions on the meaning of parts of his book his reply was "there is no meaning, I write because I enjoy it".
There was this one case with a local university's entrance exam where they asked a bunch of questions regarding some poet's writing. When they gave that poet the questions so that he could answer it himself, he said that none of the interpretations had anything to do with his writing.
That's why they only use poems by long dead poets now. :lol:
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 16, 2016, 12:16:40 PM
Explaining things is usually frowned upon in writing, but you as the writer still would have to show the reader with your words and metaphors what you're writing about so that they don't need explaining in the first place. I disagree that in most cases if the audience doesn't get it, it's the audience's fault. That way bad writing gets passed off as "too elitist/too good" for the common reader to understand.
I didn't mean to imply that all poetry is great because it isn't, not even my own. Hell, I'm the first one to say the vast majority of my own work is crap, and I don't say that for pity reads, I actually believe it. Because I am my biggest critic of my own work and that's where 99% of people who write poems (not poetry for the deeper meaning) fail. They never criticise themselves. Sadly, others rarely criticize them either.
QuotePoems Aren't Meant To Make Sense
The title: have you ever heard that before? I've heard that since I was a child. People still say it, from time to time, even today. But the thing is: they are supposed to make sense. They do make sense, most of the time. But, when I first started writing, mainly all of my poems made no sense. Why? 'Cause I didn't know how to write poetry. And, to some degree one can say: I still do not. But that saying is only said by those who do not understand poetry to begin with. Those are the types of people who say that; even those who believe that they write it themselves.
Poetry is different than prose. In prose everything is mainly literal. We can read literal 'cause we are taught literal. We are not really taught about metaphors, similies, analogies, and the like. Well, some of us are but most, I feel, aren't. And, that's what many poems are written in. Metaphors, I feel, being the one device that is used most of all; I know I use it mainly in all my poems; and if one doesn't understand the metaphor being used, how are they to understand the poem that is written?
Of course, then you have poems that may seem to be literal but the whole of the poem may be allegorical, or a complete metaphor; and how is the reader to really understand that? Are they meant to? Most can't see beyond each word that is written, in each line that describes an action, or a thought, or some sort of substantial overview of what is meant to be said compared to what isn't; or is, but the reader can't figure it out.
However, there are times when a writer doesn't even know how to write what they are writing. They learn as they go along, or they are in the process of being taught but do not fully grasp the underlying aspect of it all. That was the way it was with me. When I read poetry, I knew what it meant, at times. Not always. But I also knew that I wanted to write poetry. I wanted to convey the same sense of emotion and/or viewpoint as the poems in which I read. And, it was difficult 'cause I had to teach it to myself; I didn't have anyone really to learn from. I read, and read, and read 'til I felt I couldn't read anymore, and then I began to attempt to write it myself, and I failed many times. As I am sure many other writers had failed before in their life.
Some never actually get to that point of actually writing what is so clearly in their mind onto paper. It comes out differently than they wish it to.
"Poems aren't meant to make sense." -- is said by those who do not understand that a poem does make sense; and not just to the writer but to the reader, as well.
David Garrett Arnold
March 29 2012
QuoteWriting difficult while employing some weird metaphors for the sake of writing difficult shouldn't be the purpose of poetry. It should be, among other things, about seeing the world in a different way, a way that the reader probably hasn't ever thought of before.
People put too much strain on writers. What they should be, or shouldn't. It's like those who make films off books or an actual event. Leave things out, or add things, or leave things as they were but have no visuality to the watcher's eye. In their mind they see it a different way. They could have done it better.
-Nam
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
So, you're saying that if at first I don't understand something I have no business reading it?
Well, that puts a fair few scholars out of business doesn't it?! Fuck me, what a stupid thing to say!
Nam, you have just validated everything I wrote and insulted your entire audience.
Did i say that? Show me where i said that.
This is what I said:
QuoteHowever, people who do not understand what is written have no business reading it to begin with. That makes them illiterate in the whole form itself.
Poetry is most times metaphorical, allegorical, applies similes and painting a picture. If a person doesn't understand those things then reading poetry itself is nonsensical. They literally have no business reading what they do not understand because if they do not understand what they are reading then they critique the writer and not the poem itself. And, yes. I believe people like that have no business reading poetry.
It's like the saying, "My mother always told me if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all."
People read that the wrong way. Because they don't understand what that means. And people tend to apply that line to the most trivial of things. It's a metaphor. If you can understand what that line means then there's hope for you (you being used here in general, not you specifically) otherwise people who can't read metaphors have no business reading works that use them. And poetry, mainly, uses that tool to convey meaning.
-Nam
I think the best poems don't need the in depth analysis (although I actually quite liked doing all that at school at times, not with novels though, I hated analysing novels). However, to me the best poems are the one that hit an emotional nerve. A famous one:
QuoteW. H. Auden
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
How can you read that and not be moved emotionally?
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 02:40:18 AM
Fuck you very much.
-Nam
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
So, you're saying that if at first I don't understand something I have no business reading it? Well, that puts a fair few scholars out of business doesn't it?! Fuck me, what a stupid thing to say!
Nam, you have just validated everything I wrote and insulted your entire audience.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 16, 2016, 08:54:15 AM
Art is such a minefield.
You guys are right. I came to hear poetry.
I said, "I don't get it."
The poet is now angry...
I've had enough.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrmdSx.gif&hash=f91640d49d1804e68d896ea1e51c0f591c42cdaa)
Quote from: Claireliontamer on April 16, 2016, 02:19:04 PM
I think the best poems don't need the in depth analysis (although I actually quite liked doing all that at school at times, not with novels though, I hated analysing novels). However, to me the best poems are the one that hit an emotional nerve. A famous one:
QuoteW. H. Auden
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
How can you read that and not be moved emotionally?
Something like this could have inspired the Rolling Stones song "Paint it Black".
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
You guys are right. I came to hear poetry.
I said, "I don't get it."
The poet is now angry...
I've had enough.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrmdSx.gif&hash=f91640d49d1804e68d896ea1e51c0f591c42cdaa)
No, you said:
QuoteThat's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!
[bold mine]
That's not: I don't get it.
That's: it's their fault. They're just a bunch of elitist snobs laughing at us.
That's: you blaming us, or me, for your lack of knowledge. It's not up to us to explain our work to you or anyone else. Especially if you don't get it in the first place.
I interpreted my work above for fun. Everyone was having fun trying (or jokingly trying) to interpret my poem so I joined in in the "joke". Is my fun interpretation what the poem is about? Yes. That's what it is about: two people having sex for the first time. But I interpreted it in a humorous way because everyone else was doing the basic same thing.
You interpret that as me being an asshole. No. You're the asshole.
-Nam
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on April 16, 2016, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: Claireliontamer on April 16, 2016, 02:19:04 PM
I think the best poems don't need the in depth analysis (although I actually quite liked doing all that at school at times, not with novels though, I hated analysing novels). However, to me the best poems are the one that hit an emotional nerve. A famous one:
QuoteW. H. Auden
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
How can you read that and not be moved emotionally?
Something like this could have inspired the Rolling Stones song "Paint it Black".
Possibly but I think it's more likely that the emotion of grief inspired both of them.
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 16, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
You guys are right. I came to hear poetry.
I said, "I don't get it."
The poet is now angry...
I've had enough.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrmdSx.gif&hash=f91640d49d1804e68d896ea1e51c0f591c42cdaa)
No, you said:
QuoteThat's what I'm talking about! There's sooooooo much mystery around poems! I hate it! It's like they, the poets, know sooooo much more than you! He is so smart, and you can't figure it out! It's like an exclusive club where only the "poets" are allowed and they write, and write, and from far away they watch you read their stuff and, "Our ignorance amuses them!
[bold mine]
That's not: I don't get it.
That's: it's their fault. They're just a bunch of elitist snobs laughing at us.
That's: you blaming us, or me, for your lack of knowledge. It's not up to us to explain our work to you or anyone else. Especially if you don't get it in the first place.
I interpreted my work above for fun. Everyone was having fun trying (or jokingly trying) to interpret my poem so I joined in in the "joke". Is my fun interpretation what the poem is about? Yes. That's what it is about: two people having sex for the first time. But I interpreted it in a humorous way because everyone else was doing the basic same thing.
You interpret that as me being an asshole. No. You're the asshole.
-Nam
Not acceptable, Strike one.
Strike one? What is this baseball. Please...
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 03:09:23 PM
Strike one? What is this baseball. Please...
-Nam
C'on Nam, you know very well what it means, no deeper interpretation needed. Opinions aren't censored here but the moment you personally attack someone like that you start getting negative attention from the staff.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 16, 2016, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 03:09:23 PM
Strike one? What is this baseball. Please...
-Nam
C'on Nam, you know very well what it means, no deeper interpretation needed. Opinions aren't censored here but the moment you personally attack someone like that you start getting negative attention from the staff.
I was attacked first. Did they get a warning?
-Nam
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 03:09:23 PM
Strike one? What is this baseball. Please...
-Nam
Nam
I'm going to give you a week off to consider your future here.
Tank
Nam is on gardening leave for 7 days.
Not explicitly for insulting Mags but also for not accepting his actions were unacceptable.
What the fuck is going on?
when did we become so sensitive?
So we sight a retrospective strike one and have it do for two and three, good work.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 16, 2016, 05:02:40 PM
What the fuck is going on?
when did we become so sensitive?
So we sight a retrospective strike one and have it do for two and three, good work.
Tank has always been sensitive after he issues a warning. The people who get bans from Tank are usually those that chat back either by trying to be smart or daring him. You can get away with taking back to Recusant but Tank will usually act.
Art it is a thing humans do,
Doing more than they have to.
how a floor is swept, just so,
wood crafted as it has to be
it comes from a common place
lines drawn, rules to be obeyed
that comes from another place.
Quote from: Crow on April 16, 2016, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on April 16, 2016, 05:02:40 PM
What the fuck is going on?
when did we become so sensitive?
So we sight a retrospective strike one and have it do for two and three, good work.
Tank has always been sensitive after he issues a warning. The people who get bans from Tank are usually those that chat back either by trying to be smart or daring him. You can get away with taking back to Recusant but Tank will usually act.
Yep. I don't like warning people.
Awww, Man! You just took away my new toy. :(
Quote from: Siz on April 13, 2016, 10:14:41 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on April 13, 2016, 04:17:09 AM
Go ahead, Nam, do your thing, man. 8)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm-etropolis.com%2Fjohnbennett%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F18%2F2013%2F07%2FTheatre-stage-curtains-audi.jpg&hash=b5cdd12818c7412b6737a7a6bc2a617ae08454ec)
P'haps we could get our long-awaited angry rant included on the same bill...?!
I even cleared the room for
Nam so that no one would interrupt him. :sad sigh:
I wanted to hear his poems even if I didn't understand them.
A lot of people here didn't understand them, but he said, "Fuck you very much" and "You're the asshole" to
me. I'm not offended, I know what I am and what I'm not--and I know I'm not an asshole. He said, "I'm a poet," some of us said, "Well, that's debatable," and he got offended. I've never been to a show where the performers throws rotten tomatoes at the audience.
Did I miss strikes two and three? And not much red pen either.......standards are slipping!
Quote from: Tank on April 16, 2016, 04:34:07 PM
Nam is on gardening leave for 7 days.
Not explicitly for insulting Mags but also for not accepting his actions were unacceptable.
..But thank you anyways,
Tank. :sad sigh:
Nam was starting to do this: :shifty:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F30rUwEQ.gif%3Fnoredirect&hash=9448f2d01f1cbb2b105e5df0fc4fbcfdf3dc9326)
Quote from: Claireliontamer on April 16, 2016, 06:43:34 PM
Did I miss strikes two and three? And not much red pen either.......standards are slipping!
Strikes 2 and 3 may or may not be in the future. Nam has a week to consider if he wants to remain a member here. If he does he'll apologise to Mags and acknowledge his bad manners. Frankly I'm not sure he didn't start this thread just to start one of the arguments he says he craves. And then he insults one of the least assholeish members here. Not on my watch he doesn't.
Quote from: Siz on April 16, 2016, 06:38:04 PM
Awww, Man! You just took away my new toy. :(
Sorry. I thought you, Crow and Davin would enjoy a new boisterous member. But his direct insult to Mags was out of order. He's not gone yet.
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 16, 2016, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: Nam on April 16, 2016, 03:09:23 PM
Strike one? What is this baseball. Please...
-Nam
C'on Nam, you know very well what it means, no deeper interpretation needed. Opinions aren't censored here but the moment you personally attack someone like that you start getting negative attention from the staff.
I was attacked first. Did they get a warning?
-Nam
Well, I was going to say that if you do decide to come back then next time you feel you've been attacked by a fellow member you could use the report function. :smilenod:
:bigspecs: There's nothing in previous posts that are as bad as straight out calling a member an "asshole" nor do I see any serious provocation that would result in such escalation. If you're going to post your works here then they're going to be critiqued, even by people you think have no business giving their opinion on your poems, keep your cool... and leave your ego at the door.
Geez, I go away for a few hours to run some errands . . .
Think you've got some weird relatives?
Then you've never met my Great Great Aunt Agatha Kensington!
(poem with pictures)
http://www.joesdump.com/2016/05/09/great-great-aunt-agatha-kensington/ (http://www.joesdump.com/2016/05/09/great-great-aunt-agatha-kensington/)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joesdump.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F05%2FGGAAK_BookCover_JoesDump-web.jpg&hash=bafef8f148db40caefb0992a6e703154791238c0)
Yow! Now that poetry I understood!
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 09, 2016, 11:56:58 PM
Yow! Now that poetry I understood!
Ah... a kindred, odd spirit ;-)
I came across this poem I wrote about 4 years ago. It is untitled.
On my way I found my way in that place I don't belong
So I ran away to a far away
And found myself alone
Reaching out I reached about
My hand did touch the wall
So saying this I said aloud
I'm so afraid I'll fall
I turned away
I kicked the door
I'm lying upon the floor
I have lost my recirds of the few poems I attemoted, but this verdion if a certsin little kid's rhyme has stuvk in my mind:
Scintillate, scintillate minuscule asteric,
How I ponder your nature generic,
Set in the firmament, oh so high,
Like a carbonaceous gemstone in the sky.
(Hmm, reading that again,
I feel a considerable pain,
It is probably for the best,
That I have lost the rest.)