Greetings,
I am a former Muslim.
More specifically, I grew up pretending to be a Muslim in a hardline-Muslim country where the penalty for Apostasy is death by decapitation. Walking, talking, and appearing to agree with things I have always questioned and doubted comprised the majority of my youth.
I feel burdened with a personal obligation towards my future generation to inform them about the dangers of their religion. I also happen to be in a unique position, since I know exactly how my brethren think, and how their arguments supporting Islam have their foundations in nothing more than wavering emotion and whim.
I can personally attest to the fact that only ideologies like Islam can force good people to do heinous things.
I threw the following video together over the past few hours:
http*://www.you*tube.com/watch?v=LjZm94ojlyM&feature=plcp
As you can see, I have not taken the outright inflammatory route from the onset. Doing so may cause the target viewer to immediately raise their defenses, and maybe skip viewing the rest of the video altogether.
An honest, brutal critique would be helpful.
Also, if it is not in any violation of your time, I would greatly appreciate it if you would share the message and spread it around.
Thank you all.
- A
(Link disabled in conformance with site policy. -- Recusant)
Hi Apostasin,
I can tell that you are going for an emotional approach, it was kind of hard for me to relate with so my advice wouldn't be very good. But I did like a lot of it my only criticism is that your point was slightly vague even though it was still there.
I personally like that I can hear the emotion in your voice as its not the typical atheist video about disproving things, though if you ever do decided to do videos like that start with the so called "miracles of the Koran" whoever spouts that rubbish needs to be exposed as the frauds they are. That stuff gets me agitated.
Who was your main target within the faith? It seems to be more directed at those who revere the scholarly types and perhaps the Islamist.
Quote from: Crow on July 20, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
Hi Apostasin,
I can tell that you are going for an emotional approach, it was kind of hard for me to relate with so my advice wouldn't be very good. But I did like a lot of it my only criticism is that your point was slightly vague even though it was still there.
I personally like that I can hear the emotion in your voice as its not the typical atheist video about disproving things, though if you ever do decided to do videos like that start with the so called "miracles of the Koran" whoever spouts that rubbish needs to be exposed as the frauds they are. That stuff gets me agitated.
Who was your main target within the faith? It seems to be more directed at those who revere the scholarly types and perhaps the Islamist.
Thank you so much for your time and your kind words.
You are absolutely correct in your assessment with my vagueness. The reason behind this is that I'm taking a more methodical approach to dismantling the Islamic doctrine out of the viewer's mind. One must understand that there are people in my aimed demographic whose emotions can be easily aroused with the wrong word or the even the slightest offensive gesture. If that happens, any hopes of getting my point across will essentially go to waste.
Prof. Daniel Dennett once said that Islam, like other Monotheistic religions, have developed highly evolved, brilliant immune systems. This makes the Islamic subscriber fairly hard to reason or debate with, since all opposing arguments and points of view are happily blotted out and dismissed. This is precisely why my choice of words, imagery and timing are picked with some measure of scrutiny.
All I would like to accomplish for now with this video is to at least make it feel ok for the viewer to at least doubt their beliefs. I'm not asking them to quit cold-turkey and proudly flaunt their newly-found faculties of critical thinking from the highest rooftops.
All I want them to do be brave enough to take one issue at a time, such as the death penalty for apostasy, and start asking questions from there. More importantly, to not allow the faintest hint of guilt to stop them from doing so.
My current demographic would be the "moderate" who is open to taking the first few steps towards becoming a skeptic. Taking on pure Islamists would be a little ambitious at this point. I will assure you, however, that I will be taking on every spectrum of falsehood out there, and the embarrassing exercise in the reverse-scientific method known as "Quranic miracles" will be one of them. As I've already mentioned, timing is of great concern to me.
That said, I'm open to debates from my former brethren. Come one, come all.
Hello and welcome to HAF,
apostasin. I watched your video, and think it was well done, and carried a worthwhile message. However, this site does not allow people to post links in their very first introductory post, per the "NO SPAM" rule. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0) This rule applies to all, even those who happen to be atheist. Thus I've disabled the link, though people can go to your video simply by pasting the address in their browser's address bar and removing the asterisks.
I hope that you will spend some time here; you seem to have a worthwhile perspective to bring to our discussions. Once you graduate from the "Getting to Know You" section of the forum, there would be no problem with you posting a link to your latest video now and then, or placing a link in your signature, if you wished, as long as it's clear that you're not here merely to promote your videos.
QuoteNotes for new members from Tank:
The Rules. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php#2) section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.
Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
"Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5631.0)*
*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.
I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg825.imageshack.us%2Fimg825%2F7082%2Fsmileykp.gif&hash=44804682878b80211a94c6a1e69670528bd9c4a7)
Hi, and welcome!
Welcome!
I liked your video. :) Intense.
Welcome aboard!!
Chris
Quote from: Recusant on July 20, 2012, 05:37:30 PMI hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg825.imageshack.us%2Fimg825%2F7082%2Fsmileykp.gif&hash=44804682878b80211a94c6a1e69670528bd9c4a7)
Thank you so much Recusant for the warm welcome.
Trust me, I'll be making the round here as well as other forums. This is a very long-term endeavor, and I will make my stand against my former beliefs on every possible front.
I know this video and subsequent ones won't do much, and I know full-well that my efforts will largely be solo.
We all have to start somewhere ;)
Welcome, apostasin. You've come to a good place for discussion on this.
I admire your courage, apostasin. Welcome, and may you find a respite here, as well as a flint against which to sharpen your steel.
Salaam aleykum, ya sadeeq!
As an Arab-American atheist from a Christian background, I fully understand where you are coming from--and how hard it is to argue with anyone entrenched in Islam or the Middle Eastern variety of devout Christianity or Judaism.
I teach and am very fond of many Muslim students, the bulk from Saudi Arabia, among others in my university. I have also taught Iranians in the past, and if you are Saudi or Iranian I get what you are saying. I also understand why you hope to reach more moderate Muslims. There is so much to love about Middle Eastern people, but extremist religion is worrisome.
Here is my take on Saudi society; unfortunately, the thread was derailed and Saudi Arabia is no longer being discussed there: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=9725.msg181732#msg181732
In two of my classes last week, I played a 2011 recording by Israeli superstar Rita of the Farsi (Persian/Iranian) pop song "Shah Doomad." That year she released an album of music from her native Iran--She left with her family at the age of 10--despite her having only released albums in Hebrew before. Needless to say, such Farsi pop has been banned in Iran since the 1979 revolution, and listening to Israeli music (even if it is in Farsi) is forbidden. And yet, many people in Iran love Rita's album (available there illegally), and there have been many "Iran loves Israel" posts on YouTube, for example, despite a few hate posts. The song was actually at the top of the charts in both Israel and Iran simultaneously. Who wouldda thunk? I say all this to make it clear that many in Iran do not jump every time the religious government says boo, although they may have to pretend to support it in public in order not to get in trouble. Governments and clerics can spread hate that many buy into, but many others refuse to hate. This is only a minor example of not doing everything a religious government says, but there are many more important ones similar to the ones I cited in my post on Saudi Arabia.
Here is the video, by the way. Delightful! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXrdHZXXdmQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXrdHZXXdmQ)
I would love to talk to you on this forum and hope that we can attract others from the Arab World, Israel, Iran, Turkey, Kurdistan, and the various diasporas. Maybe one day there can be an educational thread about the real Middle East (as opposed to Western stereotypes) on this tiny island of freethinking cyberspace...
Welcome I think that you will find a lot of kindred spirits here.
Welcome! I enjoyed the video and applaud you for your courage in posting it. You're not flying solo on this, believe me. Look forward to hearing more from you.
Apo-
You've embarked on a worthy cause.
Religion is a potent brain 'Radar Jammer' with an especially strong defense network in Islam. Decapitation, what a lovely idea – maybe we could adopt that for people who don't believe in evolution?
You're doing a great service for your people.
Quote from: CB Brooks MD on July 23, 2012, 12:57:27 PM
Apo-
You've embarked on a worthy cause.
Religion is a potent brain 'Radar Jammer' with an especially strong defense network in Islam. Decapitation, what a lovely idea – maybe we could adopt that for people who don't believe in evolution?
You're doing a great service for your people.
Thank you so much.
I will concede to the fact that even making a dent in Islam's stronghold may not occur in my lifetime, but the least I will have is done is pave he way for others to do the same.
I'm in this for the long haul, but I can only do so much on my own. Maybe if I start with a simple idea, the discussion will take care of itself. Maybe one day they will realize that they are ever going to set aside each other's differences, and solve violently urgent issues like over-population, renewable energy and climate change, than letting go of Islam is the very first step towards that direction.
And what a day that will be :)
This is exactly the kind of perspective needed by many cultures to advance.
Islam resists through violence. The US resists through political bullying and correctness ("we must respect and pander to the religious crazies").
Hopefully, voices of reason will gain traction, and the upcoming generations, with increasingly secular views, are our best hope.
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on July 21, 2012, 01:58:27 AM
[ Maybe one day there can be an educational thread about the real Middle East (as opposed to Western stereotypes) on this tiny island of freethinking cyberspace...
I suggest starting with food. I discovered Halal food in NYC last year - yum! All Middle Eastern food is a great! The USA is conquering the world with Coca Cola and McDonalds, so why not follow the successful model?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2012, 03:56:01 AM
I suggest starting with food. I discovered Halal food in NYC last year - yum! All Middle Eastern food is a great! The USA is conquering the world with Coca Cola and McDonalds, so why not follow the successful model?
Halal food just means it has been prepared in custom with the Islamic tradition, i.e. if its meat the animal is hung upside down and had its throat slit and a prayer is said, I had a full English halal breakfast the other week, I didn't enjoy though as it had no bacon or sausages. English breakfasts are pretty gross anyway. But yeah a lot middle eastern food is yummy.
Quote from: Crow on July 25, 2012, 09:08:25 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2012, 03:56:01 AM
I suggest starting with food. I discovered Halal food in NYC last year - yum! All Middle Eastern food is a great! The USA is conquering the world with Coca Cola and McDonalds, so why not follow the successful model?
Halal food just means it has been prepared in custom with the Islamic tradition, i.e. if its meat the animal is hung upside down and had its throat slit and a prayer is said, I had a full English halal breakfast the other week, I didn't enjoy though as it had no bacon or sausages. English breakfasts are pretty gross anyway. But yeah a lot middle eastern food is yummy.
My Arabic mother turned my Italian father into a lover of Arabic food, and I grew up eating as much Arabic food as American and Italian food. (We may have been the only family eating spaghetti and
kibbeh balls...) I still love Arabic food, and since I live in a Brooklyn neighborhood that is about 50% Arabic I eat it often. We also have many varieties of Arabic food here, as the original Arabic inhabitants were primarily Lebanese and Syrian Christians, but in the past 15 years we have had a large scale movement of Muslims from North Africa, Saudi Arabia, and Palestine. Non-Arabic residents who had never seen a woman in a
hijab before suddenly walk shoulder to shoulder with hundreds... Too cool. I love cultural mixes. :)
Irish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars, Russians (mostly Russian Jews from Russia and Ukraine but also from the other former Soviet republics) stand outside Russian food stores, and Italian-American teenagers hop atop mailboxes and parked cars... All staring at a site they still cannot quite comprehend, a site that is now as 24/7 as New York.
Anyway... Let me know if I can provide any help with Middle Eastern food (which, I should add, is almost the same in Arabic countries, Israel and Turkey--although North African Arabs do have a somewhat different palate).
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy
outside a pub.
Quote from: OldGit on July 26, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy outside a pub.
Except when smoking a fag.
QuoteExcept when smoking a fag.
That's true.
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: OldGit on July 26, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy outside a pub.
Except when smoking a fag.
Or waiting for it to open.
Quote from: En_Route on July 26, 2012, 04:29:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: OldGit on July 26, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy outside a pub.
Except when smoking a fag.
Or waiting for it to open.
Or just after its closed.
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: En_Route on July 26, 2012, 04:29:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: OldGit on July 26, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy outside a pub.
Except when smoking a fag.
Or waiting for it to open.
Or just after its closed.
Except he won't be standing then.
Quote from: En_Route on July 26, 2012, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: En_Route on July 26, 2012, 04:29:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 26, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: OldGit on July 26, 2012, 09:55:57 AM
QuoteIrish men (from Ireland) stand outside the Irish bars ...
Over here, you'll never see a Paddy outside a pub.
Except when smoking a fag.
Or waiting for it to open.
Or just after its closed.
Except he won't be standing then.
He'll be marching in New York's St. Patrick's Day Parade (which is really the Irish Pride Parade around here).
Or... Since you guys mentioned fags (British use) and smoking... And since I'm American... Maybe he'll be marching in a different parade.
The local Irish fags are smokin' hot!!!
That was a pretty good video apotasin but you need a better microphone. I think you said in the comments you were using your phone. For what it's worth I have a Blue Snowflake that works quite nicely and was fairly inexpensive. And welcome to the board.
Welcome. You're story is enlightening and I enjoyed watching your video. I live in a muslim neighborhood in American and I have a few moderate muslim friends and one in particular that I'm close with. She does not know I am atheist because I know it would mean the end of our friendship. I think you are brave for rejecting Islam. I have yet to hear from an ex-muslim and I am looking forward to hearing more about your journey. :)
Quote from: apostasin on July 20, 2012, 12:30:15 PM
Greetings,
I am a former Muslim.
More specifically, I grew up pretending to be a Muslim in a hardline-Muslim country where the penalty for Apostasy is death by decapitation. Walking, talking, and appearing to agree with things I have always questioned and doubted comprised the majority of my youth.
I feel burdened with a personal obligation towards my future generation to inform them about the dangers of their religion. I also happen to be in a unique position, since I know exactly how my brethren think, and how their arguments supporting Islam have their foundations in nothing more than wavering emotion and whim.
I can personally attest to the fact that only ideologies like Islam can force good people to do heinous things.
I threw the following video together over the past few hours:
http*://www.you*tube.com/watch?v=LjZm94ojlyM&feature=plcp
As you can see, I have not taken the outright inflammatory route from the onset. Doing so may cause the target viewer to immediately raise their defenses, and maybe skip viewing the rest of the video altogether.
An honest, brutal critique would be helpful.
Also, if it is not in any violation of your time, I would greatly appreciate it if you would share the message and spread it around.
Thank you all.
- A
(Link disabled in conformance with site policy. -- Recusant)