Quote from: Trent ReznorYou are someone else - I am still right here
Well, good folks, it's that time of the year. The Asmo returneth with His by now traditional Random Return Ramblings. Let's get right into it.
On politics and the expanding Universe
I've talked about this before, probably at length, but the fact remains; as the world gets ever smaller, and the news, sensations and stories get ever closer, it seems like people -
ordinary people - are further apart than ever before. Lately, I've come to realize that I've more-or-less lost yet another... Friend, I suppose is the correct word by its common application. In any case, lost me another one of those to the growing chasms caused by, on a personal level, rather irrelevant bullshit of political and ideological persuasion.
It's kind-of like the expanding Universe model - the galaxies are "where they've always been," there is just more space between them. If you ask my pretty-much former pretty-much friend, he's still where he has "always been," and I have moved away from that place. If you ask me - you'll get the same answer, with the roles reversed. I'm pretty sure I can construct a good argument for my position having changed little, simply by virtue of not caring enough for most of the divisive issues for it to be relevant in my everyday interactions, but one has to wonder; can he construct my exact same argument and apply to himself? If so, and if at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter... Then why the ever-increasing distance? And if that distance is not overly relevant, why the increased exclusion?
Right, Left, Libertarian, Authoritarian, Traditionalist, Progressive, Atheist, Muslim... I'm happy to break bread with any of them. Yes, even the Communist and the Fascist. I'll happily have a polite, if blunt and overly verbose from my side, conversation with any-one who wants to engage - if nothing else, for curiosity and a chance of good company. I can and will. The "larger world" can't and won't. Not anymore. Being a curmudgeonly feller with a new gray hair appearing in his beard almost daily, I fail to understand the fashion - the
need for being a victim, for externalizing blame, for ever looking to
them for all things bad, and to
us for all things good. I'd rather
talk about why I'm wrong - and why you are.
Brexit, Trump, the rise of Populism in Europe... They are all a backlash - symptoms of... It's difficult to word precisely. A weakness, I suppose. Individuals and therefore their societies lacking the strength required to face the hostile Universe with their head held high, in stead attempting to mould it to their utopic ideals, to which they
feel entitled. And where there is backlash, someone will always lash out against
that, and so we get the rabid but utterly impotent counter-culture movements like Antifa and the more potent, insidious forces of "new-wave" Marxism, Intersectional politics and racial supremacy.
Historically, the war of counter cultures was reserved to the fringes of cultural, political and economic sphere. In the Universe which has expanded so much that no other galaxies are even in view, however... Those fringes are now the quadrants of our own - of mainstream. Thus, the bland Centrist who does not oppose abortion being legal is Communist scum and the equally-bland Centrist who refuses to use your weird-ass pronouns is a Nazi swine.
I wonder how long it will take for the dust to settle on this new reality, and if the settling of said dust will reveal the world of Mad Max rather than that of Star Trek Federation. Here, today, it certainly looks like the former. I don't blame the politicians, nor cops or the wealthy, the migrants or even The System™ - I have a mirror. Get one. You may not like what you see, or not see what is there, but you not seeing it does not diminish its reality.
While waiting to see if I need a bigger V8, here I am, at the centre of my Universe, which will ever continue growing away - in every direction. One is the loneliest number. Also, a legion. An army. One... Suits me.
Disclaimer: Not talking to or about any-one specific. Them's general
ramblings.
Good to hear that the center of your universe is still intact. Ramble on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzGBQerkvWs
It's nice to see ol' Grumpy back in full form.
Why, thank you. The hairlines may creep backwards and the beards may take a whiteish tinge here and there, but some variables are invariable enough to be near-constants. Asmos ramble. As certainly as the seasons come and go.
I also could have a conversation with anyone, irrespective of how different their views were from mine, as long as the conversation was civil. That's difficult in the USA today. Everyone demonizes everyone. I understand the urge to be alone - I could handle a bit more of it.
It's not just the States. It's like that in the UK too - and even beyond the Northern anglosphere. Even some people within my own fair shores are becoming rabidly <insert an -ism>
...Must be nice to have everything figured out to such a degree that one's own opinions become The Way, The Truth and The Life. A "God-shaped hole," filled by faith of a different kind - though just as absolute. I do not possess such an orifice, but in the circles in which I move, some people apparently do. Then they convince the predisposed and the vicious cycle continues. Inquisitors coming for wrongthinkers, with literal torches sometimes, angry mobs pillaging and looting in the name of their ill-defined "gods..." History. It repeats. An asshole in different trousers, though it may be - it is an asshole still.
Hi, Asmodean. I was wondering where you were. :reading:
Dear Gray one, you are waxing eloquent. Please continue.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 20, 2020, 11:08:34 AM
Quote from: Trent ReznorYou are someone else - I am still right here
Well, good folks,
I'm offended by your exclusion of us bad folks in your intro. >:(
Quote from: Asmodean on October 20, 2020, 11:08:34 AMFriend, I suppose is the correct word by its common application. In any case, lost me another one of those to the growing chasms caused by, on a personal level, rather irrelevant bullshit of political and ideological persuasion.
Good folks want to be friends with good folks, political and ideological persuasion is key to "good" status.
You can't just say you're indifferent, well you can, but that's bad.
I see your identity politics and raise you a Stephen Fry;
(https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/12904205_f520.jpg)
Good to see that you are still in possession of Her Majesty's hat collection ;)
Yes, but what about Luxembourg? Isn't everything prim and proper there, with all the bankers and such? Very cordial, I'm sure. No incivility or display of emotion. And no rats. Should you go there on holiday, perhaps?
Hey Asmo! :wave hi:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 21, 2020, 04:56:58 PM
Yes, but what about Luxembourg? Isn't everything prim and proper there, with all the bankers and such? Very cordial, I'm sure. No incivility or display of emotion. And no rats. Should you go there on holiday, perhaps?
It has been alleged that a rumor is going around about an Asmo being spotted giving some sort of virus to some Chinese food bats as a part of an elaborate scheme that may or may not have been aimed at a certain mountain dutchy in Europe.
Vicious slander, of course...
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 21, 2020, 09:58:56 AM
Good folks want to be friends with good folks, political and ideological persuasion is key to "good" status.
You can't just say you're indifferent, well you can, but that's bad.
...But you can
be indifferent. Actually, I think I can intertwine both points into a single answer;
I do not buy into the climate hysteria (Not to be confused with not buying into the climate
change) and so I do not live my life as though it were a/my problem. It's not driven by malice, or even selfishness, but rather, by me refusing to alter that, with which I am largely content, based on an unconvincing argument about what in my world view is a non-issue. Thus, I lazily and largely indifferently avoid the labour. Still, I will not set fire to some Extinction Rebellion kid's dreads, and ye average Extinction Rebellion kid will not Molotov my diesel-powered car. Ok. Now, we have a line in the sand: don't burn each other's shit. Let's draw some more. And with our sandbox crisscrossed with lines, as long as we both respect them, then we are
both "good folks."
This holds especially true on issues where there are no empirically correct answers - the
oughts of our daily lives.
How is this relevant to what I've been saying? Thusly; the abovementioned pretty-much former pretty-much friend did not cross any of my lines in any meaningful way. The opposite is also true. As far as I'm concerned, he
is one of the
good folks - we just disagree on certain shades of gray in some larger issues. In my less-than-humble opinion, that's not a reason for unfriendliness - quite the opposite, in fact.
We are not enemies until the fires start - we just
disagree. And should we agree that
fire bad, then maybe recognizing that reality
before a more serious conflict is unavoidable is preferable to just waiting to fight a war.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 22, 2020, 07:39:54 AM
...
We are not enemies until the fires start - we just disagree. And should we agree that fire bad, then maybe recognizing that reality before a more serious conflict is unavoidable is preferable to just waiting to fight a war.
Ooh, I like this. :smilenod:
Quote from: Magdalena on October 22, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
Ooh, I like this. :smilenod:
Then I suppose, it's welcome to the few. :)
Not to abuse the venerable "It's the current year" argument, but it
is the current year, and the general social trends seem to be headed for kill and let die (more or less metaphorically. "Less" having gained some momentum in the past decade) rather than live and let's talk.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 22, 2020, 11:14:45 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 22, 2020, 10:44:50 AM
Ooh, I like this. :smilenod:
Then I suppose, it's welcome to the few. :)
....
:yes!:
Cool!
Now we just need to convince the other 7.8 billion. :smilenod:
Quote from: Icarus on October 21, 2020, 06:22:06 AM
Dear Gray one, you are waxing eloquent. Please continue.
Ah, yes! That is another thing Asmos tend to do in their Return Ramblings. Also, the eyebrows. Rumour has it that they are
waxed to elegance.There are those who say that I should have been a politician... But nah. Waxing eloquent about the issues with fiery rhetoric and vivid imagery is one thing. Actually resolving them... Yeah, sort-of trying to work on that.
Quote from: Magdalena on October 22, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
Now we just need to convince the other 7.8 billion. :smilenod:
...At least enough of those content on watching silently as the "civilized world" slowly burns around them to maybe actually start talking to people. Not
at them.
To.
Quote from: Magdalena on October 22, 2020, 10:28:16 PM
Now we just need to convince the other 7.8 billion. :smilenod:
...At least enough of those content on watching silently as the "civilized world" slowly burns around them to maybe actually start talking to people. Not
at them.
To.[/quote]
I cannot help but feel that my world is burning more certainly than the Asmo's world. My society has become egregiously divided. Let us see whether the upcoming election has any hope of mending the divide. I worry. :panic:
This same divide is gaining momentum "all over the place." My worry is that wars may have to erupt before ever people start listening to whoever they deem heretical.
Quote from: Icarus on October 25, 2020, 01:38:42 AM
I cannot help but feel that my world is burning more certainly than the Asmo's world. My society has become egregiously divided. Let us see whether the upcoming election has any hope of mending the divide. I worry. :panic:
Maybe you can hope to stop the widening, bridging the thing is an engineering feat I can't imagine, but I'm just a pudding.
I was a cynical youth, duty and loyalty to institutions like schools and nations and law, ha, let the others, the saps do that.
Now the people that run the USA have abandoned nobility: WordWeb definition (2) The quality of elevation of mind and exaltation of character, ideals or conduct. I'd mock the boy scout do good notions, you don't miss what you've got till it's gone.
Fuck, fuck, fuck. These people have no honour any more, it's OK to cheat now 'cause we're cheating the others.
There is no sense of fair play, a lack of morality if you will. This is decadence and an old dottery Dem won't fix it.
Honestly, I think that the only path to lessening the divide is for Mr. Biden to win. It has little to do with policies, however, and a lot to do with who has the more radicalised, riot-prone base. This is also a variable in the upcoming elections, as I suppose one must count on some people voting based at least partly on fear of riots, while others again will vote the opposite for reasons of "let them come."
I may be wrong, but I think that if president Trump loses his bid for re-election, his base will whine and grumble, but accept it. Should he win... Yeah. 2016, but worse is my prediction.
The Trump presidency has been... Impactful. For starters, three Supreme Court nominations. His hand will be felt in the US and global politics for decades to come no matter the outcome of the elections, and the prospects of another term, even one of lesser impact, will drive a lot of opposition to rioting and looting.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 27, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
I may be wrong, but I think that if president Trump loses his bid for re-election, his base will whine and grumble, but accept it. Should he win... Yeah. 2016, but worse is my prediction.
Most of his millions will probably do as you say but you know, a single million is quite a lot, there's going to be some ratbags amongst them to keep the news folk busy, maybe.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 27, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
The Trump presidency has been... Impactful. For starters, three Supreme Court nominations. His hand will be felt in the US and global politics for decades to come no matter the outcome of the elections, and the prospects of another term, even one of lesser impact, will drive a lot of opposition to rioting and looting.
I remember mentioning supreme court appointments to some American who didn't think Hilary was left enough, they're all the same so why vote?
I find USAmerica and its troubles tiresome.
QuoteNew Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has claimed a landslide election victory.
At a Labour event in Auckland she had two simple words to say: "thank you".
But it's what she didn't say that raised eyebrows.
Pollsters forecast Labour would do well, but not this well. A Friday poll put the PM's party at 44 per cent, but they're actually currently on around 49 per cent.
Labour could have enough votes to govern without a coalition partner - something that's unheard of in New Zealand.
i wish i could disagree, but i dont.
i think the vision for how tge united srates was going to work had great promise, but like all governments it depended on the integrity of the the people in it.
the US has seen a critically important detachment beteeen the health and well being of the upper and lower classes. since the classes are defined by money only the upper classes secure their positions by using the system to reinforce their advantages. in the american system the upper classes bear no social responsibility for the welfare of the lower, and just exploit them.
loeer clazz people in the ztates are significantly worse off economically and have significantly pooere prospects than they did just a few decades ago.
thats what we re seeing now being reflected in politicz. the lower classes outside the cities feel abandoned and are are taking it out on the other lower classes that they believe are gaining entitlements. the rich are standing by and watching, and getting richer.
the politics will ztay dysfunctional until the society is changed. i dont see it happening.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 20, 2020, 09:44:24 PM
It's not just the States. It's like that in the UK too - and even beyond the Northern anglosphere. Even some people within my own fair shores are becoming rabidly <insert an -ism>
...Must be nice to have everything figured out to such a degree that one's own opinions become The Way, The Truth and The Life. A "God-shaped hole," filled by faith of a different kind - though just as absolute. I do not possess such an orifice, but in the circles in which I move, some people apparently do. Then they convince the predisposed and the vicious cycle continues. Inquisitors coming for wrongthinkers, with literal torches sometimes, angry mobs pillaging and looting in the name of their ill-defined "gods..." History. It repeats. An asshole in different trousers, though it may be - it is an asshole still.
Ye well there are issues that being on the wrong side of taints you, you're are not worth talking to.
1) Women/misogynists
2) Racists
3) Climate change/deniers
4) Gender identity and the configuration of bits peoples bring into close proximity.
1) Astoundingly it seems there are men that have "bad"attitudes twards woman.
Some will rape them, beat them, kill them even if they're the mother of their children.
I don't think I want to do polite discourse with some of them.
2) Racists, I think I am a bit racist but I'm told to strive for purity by an English brown guy. Well you go first and I'll continue to avoid being cruel because you shouldn't be and I don't enjoy it anyway.
3) Ha, the big one. I'm not going to convince anyone, my dad told me it was bullshit on his way out.
I'm in danger of getting emotional and talking all irrational. The future of civilisation is a concern, I also value cute creatures, the Great Barrier Reef isn't as great anymore, fire came to my home.
The Asmo principle, leave my stuff alone and I'll leave your stuff alone, the fish, the cute animals, they are my stuff. I've been here 29 years sharing their place but now they're gone, last one one I saw was blind, about to die alone, it was always a mother and a young one here, for how long before I came I don't know, they've suffered in lots of places, I don't know if they'll come back anytime soon, not with new roads and all, not this side of our demise. The large roos and feral deer are still here. Say a word against Greta Thunberg and I'll hate you, not as much as you deserve but as much as I can manage on the day.
4) I'll leave that for another time.
(https://i.imgur.com/ajXKKmO.jpg)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 20, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
I also could have a conversation with anyone, irrespective of how different their views were from mine, as long as the conversation was civil. That's difficult in the USA today. Everyone demonizes everyone. I understand the urge to be alone - I could handle a bit more of it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 11, 2020, 05:29:20 AM
I live in the USA. I've been here for 64 of my 67 years. It's certainly no worse than any place else I've been. If you try to take 330,000,000 people of every sort and try to make a nation out of them, I'd say we've done as well as anyone else could. Everyone else can fuck off.
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I just find the impulse/resorting to "Everyone else can fuck off" interesting, I've done it, I try to temper it sometimes.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on January 31, 1975, 08:30:35 AM
1) Women/misogynists
2) Racists
3) Climate change/deniers
4) Gender identity and the configuration of bits peoples bring into close proximity.
1 and 2, even though they are different, get lumped against the same thing to me: treating everyone equitably. No one is going to be perfect, but if one cannot self evaluate their behavior and/or refuses to change bad behaviors, then there isn't much use in a relationship with them.
3 is an odd thing to be against, and I don't quite get why anyone is against making the planet, where we all live, a cleaner and nicer place. It's like living with someone who makes a mess all the time, makes fun of you for cleaning the place up, and then makes an even bigger mess to stick it to you for caring about having a clean place to live. I don't see how one can have a good or even neutral relationship with someone like that.
4 What pronoun a person wants to be called shouldn't be any bigger an issue than what their name is. If someone says their name is Sally and the other person keeps calling them Albert, then the other person is being an asshole. There is no harm caused to someone by using the pronoun that a person wants used. Whatever someone wants to (or not do as the case sometimes is), do with their bits by themselves or with other consenting adults, is not really something that people outside that relationship should be concerned with. And if people are concerned with it, they're overreaching assholes. So I guess this one could also be lumped into the first bucket of treating people equitably.
My last one is politics. I think it's OK to disagree on policy and opinions. I don't think it's OK to maintain a policy or opinion that goes against facts though. It's also not OK to use inconsistent logic and/or to not have any integrity in ones judgments. If a person is shown to have based their opinion on faulty ground, and they refuse to acknowledge it, then I think it's OK to not want to be friends with that person.
Friendship is a thing where people share, learn, and rub off on each other. It's OK that if you feel like a friend is becoming an intolerant asshole to break up the friendship because you don't want to share in that kind of thing or to have that rub off on you.
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 28, 2020, 01:05:50 PM
Ye well there are issues that being on the wrong side of taints you, you're are not worth talking to.
I disagree.Talking to people is both the path to understanding their thought processes and whatever events they may have caused/contributed to and a potential way of swaying their opinion, or at least planting a seed of doubt here and there (Secondary goal at best, but not insignificant)
Quote1) Women/misogynists
2) Racists
3) Climate change/deniers
4) Gender identity and the configuration of bits peoples bring into close proximity.
Yeah. I'd talk to someone on the "wrong side" of
all of these issues, and a thief and a terrorist besides. Tainted? In the words of the abovequoted Stephen Fry,
Quote from: Mr. FryWell, so fucking what?
Quote1) Astoundingly it seems there are men that have "bad"attitudes twards woman.
Some will rape them, beat them, kill them even if they're the mother of their children.
I don't think I want to do polite discourse with some of them.
If they are being polite, why would
you not be?
Also, there are many topics you may want to have a discussion with them about, none of which specifically involve women, ethnic minorities or... What have you. Maybe the (potentially violent) heretic in question is a kickass silicone board designer and you are looking to have just such a board designed..? People tend to be more than whatever it is they do, which you perceive to be
wrong, and not every situation calls for stand-offishness or condemnation, especially of situationally-unrelated factors.
This reminds me of that time our minister of fish-related affairs went to Iran and certain people were up in arms over him not commenting on their human rights record... Yeah. The dude does
fish. The Iranians abuse their fish no more than we do. Hashtag fishlivesmatter hashtag notreally.
Quote2) Racists, I think I am a bit racist but I'm told to strive for purity by an English brown guy. Well you go first and I'll continue to avoid being cruel because you shouldn't be and I don't enjoy it anyway.
Personally, I don't get involved in who you do and don't like and why. We can drop the subject and still have a productive conversation - or discuss the subject and disagree. OR, on rare occasion, we may even find common ground. Racism is not a reason for not talking to somebody either.
Quote3) Ha, the big one. I'm not going to convince anyone, my dad told me it was bullshit on his way out.
I'm in danger of getting emotional and talking all irrational. The future of civilisation is a concern, I also value cute creatures, the Great Barrier Reef isn't as great anymore, fire came to my home.
The thing got political, lines got drawn and highly-exclusionary tribes rule each their side of the issue.
I'll happily talk to whatever side of this issue, and find common ground with most, except the most rabid on either side. I think I've outlined my personal stance and why I hold it. It boils down to unconvincing arguments in favour of taking certain actions, even though the arguments in favour of the general climate trends are persuasive.
The climate is changing.
OK.
It's a problem.
No.
Ok, it's a problem for a
lot of people.
OK.
We must do something.
No.
Ok, we
ought to do something.
OK.
Get a electric car.
What does it do?
Something.Show me
how my contribution will save them roos or NYC from ending up in the drink or Micronesia from following suit and... Yeah. We
can talk about it.
QuoteSay a word against Greta Thunberg and I'll hate you, not as much as you deserve but as much as I can manage on the day.
Challenge accepted.
She started out as a clueless kid, and is still not much more than that. Charismatic enough in her own way, but as unconvincing as the rest of the pop culture idols. Also, Mother Theresa was a fraud and crab sticks are not made from crab.
In the immortal words of Blue October,
Quote from: Blue October - Hate MeHate me today
Hate me tomorrow
Hate me for all the things I didn't do for you
Hate me in ways
Yeah, ways hard to swallow
Hate me so you can finally see what's good for you
Quote4) I'll leave that for another time.
Deserves its own post, really. It's been months since I ranted about "special" and "unique" people, "deserving" of something for nothing from
me.
Quote from: Davin on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
If a person is shown to have based their opinion on faulty ground, and they refuse to acknowledge it, then I think it's OK to not want to be friends with that person.
What do you know, I managed to not see a very interesting point, especially as it relates to my current... Thing.
In case of climate hysteria (As a wide fringe subset of climate activism) a lot of people parrot the opinions of others and expect someone like me to act on those opinions. "99,999% of scientists say..." and "It is Known™ that..." and "We, including you,
must do a thing because the thing must be done..."
My most recent falling out stems from my stance being "Show me your test parameters," (How can my own sweet self verify what you're saying without relying on the
opinion of others. Specifically, that a certain contribution to a cause actually
matters to that particular cause) and my opposition's stance being "I believe/trust them over there." I just find it sad that the latter approach, which is mostly-valid, especially in questions where, conflicting ideologies considered, there are no objectively correct or wrong answers, tends to cause people to close ranks among the "true believers" and refuse to talk/listen to those who find their gods unconvincing.
My apologies for that sentence. It was rather a complex thought.
Another interesting point I missed;
Quote from: Bad Penny II on October 28, 2020, 01:05:50 PM
The Asmo principle, leave my stuff alone and I'll leave your stuff alone, the fish, the cute animals, they are my stuff.
Sure, if I run over your pet roo, there may be some question of compensation, but I'm almost certain that we are talking in broader terms here. So, disregarding any actual/legal private property...
If they are yours to do with as
you please, are they not also mine to do with as
I please?
For instance, if one of us wants to preserve, and the other wants to exploit, who gets the right of way? My suggestion is no-one, but also everyone. A compromise, which is not completely palatable nor completely unacceptable to either party. The weighting of it can then be resolved by factors like numerical superiority in a vote, "usefulness" and others... Which is sort-of a separate discussion.
We do have our differences in all sorts of ways.
Here is an almost humorous report that demonstrates our differences in priorities. Denmark is building or has built a 47 mile fence separating the Danish/German border. The purpose is not to keep the Mexicans out of Denmark. It is to keep the German boars from invading the Viking territory. (Boars: as in the formidable pig like beasts that root up all manner of agricultural sites) :cartoonviking:
Any Danes out there who can verify or deny such a news report?...............No intent to derail the conversation here.........Asmo: please proceed with your scholarly and eloquent argumentation.
While The Asmo's bloviating is of a more personal than scholarly nature (albeit with a sprinkling of good points here and there) on this particular occasion, He shall indeed rant on. ;D
I have not seen the Trump Wall of Denmark last I was there, but if it is a relatively new thing, or is/was being built in other areas than where I hang out (There, the border is as often as not a ditch between two farmlands or a meter or two of vegetation between houses) then it would not surprise me.
The Hungarians, they have a fence too. that one is mostly for the two-legged "invaders" though.
I would propose a solution involving hunting for the things (Upon re-reading, it seems prudent to add; boars, not Syrians) with spears, mano a... Tusk-in-Spanish-o? But the fence... It should work just as well for the purpose.
part of the American Problem is that we are in a place where we CANNOT talk to each pother.
there is an active program to discredit informed opinion here in the states that has been in place for some 30 or 40 years now, ever since the energy industry discovered it was more effective to simply deny climate change than advocate to ignore it . . . the conservative political wing adopted the same tactics, and we have seen it this year in full force as trump and his toadies and enablers deny the novel corona virus.
you simply cannot have a rational discussion with someone who denies that the sky is blue, and questions the existence of color in the first place.
trump's main following is with people who have les education than their opposition, and who deny that informed opinions are more likely to be correct than uninformed opinions. the conservatives in government consist of those who agree (the morons) and those who know better but game the system in favor of their political goals (the mcconnells).
the most important thing we in america can do in the post-trump era is try to re-build confidence and trust in infomed opinion, the trust in experts that has been discredited by the conservatives in the post reagan era.
it does not matter what the science is if people don't believe it.
Billy, let us hope that there will actually be a "post Trump era"
I have little confidence that we can build a society with "informed opinion". A frighteningly large proportion of our citizenry is thoroughly convinced that Q-anon is a reliable source of information, that climate change is a hoax, that the rapture will soon be here, vaccines cause erectile disfunction and/or autism, and numerous other "alternative facts".
well, you know that there will be a post-trump era, either in a few months or in four years.
god, i hope his odious children fade away in either event
what that will look like, i don't know. but you're right, there are people who believe all sorts of crap. i've personally known several who believe th emoon landings were faked, that joe biden drinks the blood of murdered children, and that th eilluminati or the rothschilds control the world economy.
in th epast they could be ignored, somewhat,, but now they have been discovered by people who mobilize them for their own gain.
jeez, how can any unemployed coal miner see a new york city real estate billionaire and think that the guy will look out for him?
even common sense is missing.
Quote from: Icarus on October 29, 2020, 11:15:18 PM
We do have our differences in all sorts of ways.
Here is an almost humorous report that demonstrates our differences in priorities. Denmark is building or has built a 47 mile fence separating the Danish/German border. The purpose is not to keep the Mexicans out of Denmark. It is to keep the German boars from invading the Viking territory. (Boars: as in the formidable pig like beasts that root up all manner of agricultural sites) :cartoonviking:
Any Danes out there who can verify or deny such a news report?...............No intent to derail the conversation here.........Asmo: please proceed with your scholarly and eloquent argumentation.
It is indeed real news. The fence was finished in 2019 is 70km long and 1.5 meters high. Now the Germans are building a similar fence on German-Polish border.
Let the boars in and eat them. Excellent food source.
Spears and loin cloths, my friend. Spears and loin cloths. :smilenod: