http://www2.nbc17.com/news/wake-county/2012/may/22/protest-planned-following-nc-pastors-anti-gay-serm-ar-2300237/
What a lovely Mother's Day sermon from Pastor Charles Worley . . .
'He said, "Build a great big large fence about 150 or 100 mile long, put all the lesbians in there, fly over and drop some food. Do the same thing with the queers and the homosexuals, have the fence electrified. In a few years they'll die because they can't reproduce." '
Do people walk out on these sermons or do the sheep just go along with what they are told?
Quote from: Stevil on May 24, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
Do people walk out on these sermons or do the sheep just go along with what they are told?
I watched the video and heard a few 'amens'. Peer pressure alone, I think, would keep most everybody from walking out, whether they agreed with him or not.
So much WTF.
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Stevil on May 24, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
Do people walk out on these sermons or do the sheep just go along with what they are told?
I watched the video and heard a few 'amens'. Peer pressure alone, I think, would keep most everybody from walking out, whether they agreed with him or not.
Is peer pressure different in a church to any other organisation?
I am not one to be politically active myself, but I would certainly walk out of any speech like this. I would quit any organisation that holds this position.
I'm stunned that the congregation don't quit otherwise they are condoning this position aren't they?
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Stevil on May 24, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
Do people walk out on these sermons or do the sheep just go along with what they are told?
I watched the video and heard a few 'amens'. Peer pressure alone, I think, would keep most everybody from walking out, whether they agreed with him or not.
Is peer pressure different in a church to any other organisation?
I am not one to be politically active myself, but I would certainly walk out of any speech like this. I would quit any organisation that holds this position.
I'm stunned that the congregation don't quit otherwise they are condoning this position aren't they?
I think peer pressure is quite different in a church setting. In most settings, you might be afraid of being mocked or disliked; in church, you risk damnation and excommunication. Not to mention a lot of people grow up in a church - building relationships and reaffirming beliefs that have intertwined for generations. Leaving a church, for many, would mean not only losing face but losing a large part of what makes up their life. Comments from the members also seem to indicate that the congregation generally approves of his anti-gay message, but perhaps think he went a little far in suggesting homosexuals should be a concentration camp. All in all, easier to 'forgive' what they perceive as an overly-passionate sermon and read some Psalms to make themselves feel good about religion again.
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:49:00 AM
I think peer pressure is quite different in a church setting. In most settings, you might be afraid of being mocked or disliked; in church, you risk damnation and excommunication. Not to mention a lot of people grow up in a church - building relationships and reaffirming beliefs that have intertwined for generations. Leaving a church, for many, would mean not only losing face but losing a large part of what makes up their life. Comments from the members also seem to indicate that the congregation generally approves of his anti-gay message, but perhaps think he went a little far in suggesting homosexuals should be a concentration camp. All in all, easier to 'forgive' what they perceive as an overly-passionate sermon and read some Psalms to make themselves feel good about religion again.
Religion would get a lot more respect from the non religious if we could see that the religious people could protest or oppose a crazy minister.
But when they all just follow along, either excepting or giving lame excuses to something that is abhorrent, then this is a dangerous and crazy cult.
How can we see it as anything other than dangerous and a threat to our society?
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:49:00 AM
In most settings, you might be afraid of being mocked or disliked; in church, you risk damnation and excommunication.
And I, for one, would proudly take that chance.
I wouldn't necessarilly walk out though. The symbolism of that act is too week for an adequate reaction. What I would do, however, is try to change the organisation I disagreed with or, if I could not, bring it down completely.
QuoteLeaving a church, for many, would mean not only losing face but losing a large part of what makes up their life.
You don't have to leave to make a difference. That said, losing face and a large chunk of your life is a poor excuse in my book.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2012, 01:46:56 AM
I wouldn't necessarilly walk out though. The symbolism of that act is too week for an adequate reaction.
If half the congregation walked out, the pastor would realise he has been moderated. He would need to adjust or he would be fired. His superiors would not like the dwindling of their tithe money.
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2012, 01:46:56 AM
I wouldn't necessarilly walk out though. The symbolism of that act is too week for an adequate reaction.
If half the congregation walked out, the pastor would realise he has been moderated. He would need to adjust or he would be fired. His superiors would not like the dwindling of their tithe money.
When you walk out on something like that, you can not count on other than being alone. Many times, you will not be, but when you are, the symbolism of the gesture is utterly insignificant.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2012, 01:46:56 AM
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:49:00 AM
In most settings, you might be afraid of being mocked or disliked; in church, you risk damnation and excommunication.
And I, for one, would proudly take that chance.
I wouldn't necessarilly walk out though. The symbolism of that act is too week for an adequate reaction. What I would do, however, is try to change the organisation I disagreed with or, if I could not, bring it down completely.
QuoteLeaving a church, for many, would mean not only losing face but losing a large part of what makes up their life.
You don't have to leave to make a difference. That said, losing face and a large chunk of your life is a poor excuse in my book.
As in mine. I would be worse off to sit and say nothing than to stand up and leave. Though the cracks may spread if a couple individuals voted with their feet, I'd wager it's more likely that the remaining mob will grumble and bash anyone who did. Same with staying and trying to change things from within - you'd probably be more likely to be forced out than cause any sort of change. That's no excuse for moral cowardice, however.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2012, 02:07:54 AM
When you walk out on something like that, you can not count on other than being alone. Many times, you will not be, but when you are, the symbolism of the gesture is utterly insignificant.
I wouldn't say insignificant.
No-one wants to be the first, but the second person is not such a big deal. If you are brave enough to be the first, you run the risk of being the only person. But if others follow, then you have made a difference.
If others don't follow, it may not be obvious, but you still may have made a difference. Some may wish they had followed suit, but for various reasons (probably family) choose not to. But just sitting there listening may give the impression that you support it. Any gay person in the crowd would feel that the whole congregation hates them. A gay person might be afraid to stand up due to being gay and not wanting to bring attention to themselves and thus become a victim even further. It would be like a black person standing up in the middle of a hate speech within a KKK conference.
But in my opinion, at the very least, a non gay person ought to show that they do not tolerate such intolerance. Surely some Christians think this is not on in today's society.
This makes me so mad. It's so disrespectful that somebody would say this. Don't these "so called christians" realize that they are actually going against what the bibles says itself. Unless of course, they want to get put in electrified enclosures and starved themselves.
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 24, 2012, 11:19:47 PM
'He said, "Build a great big large fence about 150 or 100 mile long, put all the lesbians in there, fly over and drop some food. Do the same thing with the queers and the homosexuals, have the fence electrified. In a few years they'll die because they can't reproduce." '
I would blame the school system, but I don't think it can take the fall for idiocy so massive. The Rev's inability to notice that for the most part it's straights who give birth to gays, that most adults live longer than a few years, that plenty of gays have impregnated or become pregnant in the usual (and cheapest) way . . . that's a mental deficiency that no amount of schooling could correct.
This sounds cool a fence and all the gays get put one side of it, when are they going to start on it? It'll have to be bigger than 100-150 miles long though, 'cause there's going to be a lot of straight people who will want to join them.
Ye but I don't think we'll starve out by being separated from these dark age creeps. We'll imagine better things, build up to the sky and they'll be left grovelling in their dirt. It would be nice to fence them off, limit the damage they can do, stop them holding us back, if only it were possible.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 25, 2012, 04:18:44 AM
Ye but I don't think we'll starve out by being separated from these dark age creeps.
Just to clarify, they aren't intending to starve us, we're expected to die off from lack of reproduction. Which is so blindingly stupid it actually negates the heartlessness of the fencing off idea for me.
The ex-Progressive Christian in me wants to rip this guy's words apart.
But I need not to, because his logic is already so astoundingly stupid (Lets send all of the current homosexuals to camps and they'll die because they can't reproduce, and we won't have anymore homosexuals!).
Although, I think what bothers me is some of the Christians' responses I have seen to this. I literally saw one say "Big deal. Yes there are extremists in this world. There are extremist homophobes and then there are also extremist homosexuals."
Right... Because there are totally extremist homosexuals who want to take rights away from heterosexuals and send them to camps to die. And because those extremist homosexuals are totally in positions of power. They totally have a powerful concept over the masses like God to claim to speak for, and, of course, their views are totally widely accepted so they have influence over the government and law.
It's just not even comparable, I'm sorry.
The colorful pony hath spoken. His Infernal Gayness agrees with the wisdom
Eh... Grayness. Of course, He meant Grayness.
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2012, 04:34:59 PM
The colorful pony hath spoken. His Infernal Gayness agrees with the wisdom
Eh... Grayness. Of course, He meant Grayness.
;D ;D ;D I like you so much.
Anyway, yes, the hate and stupidity of that comment is completely over the top. I love that he thinks that homosexuals will die in a couple of years if they "can't reproduce." All of the obvious answers aside (like, gay people can reproduce the good ol' fashioned way too, and gay people are overwhelmingly born from straight parents), I just think it's hilarious that he apparently assumes that reproducing is like eating and breathing. If you don't make babies constantly, you totally curl up and die!
This is one of those situations where "fuck" is appropriate.
So stupid in so many ways I don't even know where to begin.
This is just begging for a really grotesque parody. Mockery - that's the way to defuse this kind of stuff.
I wanted to make a joke about this pastors stupid remarks, but then I realised I don't have to do anything with it. It's already in joke form! I can't say anything that makes it sound more stupid then it already is.
If I didn't know this was an actual preacher, I would put legal tender on him being a poe.
...but again, I am not so worried about the pastor, the world is full of crazies.
What worries me is that the congregation stick around through the crazy, and either justify or support it.
Would our Bruce or AD stick around through this if it were their paster? Is this typical (acceptable) Christian behavior?
If it was The Asmo's pasta, He would feed it to pigs.
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 08:50:44 PM
...but again, I am not so worried about the pastor, the world is full of crazies.
What worries me is that the congregation stick around through the crazy, and either justify or support it.
Would our Bruce or AD stick around through this if it were their paster? Is this typical (acceptable) Christian behavior?
The problem (besides the obvious) is that Christianity is so subjective that while decent folk like Bruce or AD would say that such people are not 'true Christians', Pastor Worley and his ilk would likewise say the same of them. I've heard that a lot: 'Oh, you can't blame the faith - those guys aren't
real Christians'. Everybody has their own definition of what true Christianity means. Think of driving; anyone who speeds more than you is a maniac, and anyone slower should get off the road. Everybody think they have it 'right'. And quite frankly, the Bible can be used to support this craziness as easily as it can be used to teach charity.
Has there ever been a case of the congregation leaving a sermon or a church due to the craziness of a pastor?
I know some have left when a church gave women equal rights, but in terms of intollerance, have people left? ever?
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 09:12:29 PM
Has there ever been a case of the congregation leaving a sermon or a church due to the craziness of a pastor?
I know some have left when a church gave women equal rights, but in terms of intollerance, have people left? ever?
I know that a couple of people left my ILs Synagogue in the middle of a sermon against homosexuality (just referenced that incident in another thread!) But it was a guest Rabbi, so they didn't leave the congregation for good, just for that sermon. They also expressed to their normal Rabbi as a community that they did not wish to ever have him come and speak again. I believe the Rabbi concurred, and the guest Rabbi has not and will not be back.
I heard some ignorance yesterday about homosexuality when I was on the bus. There was a man preaching for about oh say the entire damn time he was on it. So he starts right out with Jesus is coming back. After a while he started talking about prejudice and how evil people are. He then turned around and said gays want rights now? Gays don't get rights. I was really trying to stay out of it so I just looked at my friend and said yep women too. you know what how about nobody gets rights. Lock everybody up. At one point I told my friend thank god I'm an atheist. That got a laugh. People were jumping up and running to get off that bus. Seems not even other Christians want to hear such ignorance.
Actually, it seems like things are starting to change for the better. One could say that excessively vicious rants like this are a reaction against losing traditional hold on people.
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:49:00 AM
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: Dobermonster on May 25, 2012, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Stevil on May 24, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
Do people walk out on these sermons or do the sheep just go along with what they are told?
I watched the video and heard a few 'amens'. Peer pressure alone, I think, would keep most everybody from walking out, whether they agreed with him or not.
Is peer pressure different in a church to any other organisation?
I am not one to be politically active myself, but I would certainly walk out of any speech like this. I would quit any organisation that holds this position.
I'm stunned that the congregation don't quit otherwise they are condoning this position aren't they?
I think peer pressure is quite different in a church setting. In most settings, you might be afraid of being mocked or disliked; in church, you risk damnation and excommunication. Not to mention a lot of people grow up in a church - building relationships and reaffirming beliefs that have intertwined for generations. Leaving a church, for many, would mean not only losing face but losing a large part of what makes up their life. Comments from the members also seem to indicate that the congregation generally approves of his anti-gay message, but perhaps think he went a little far in suggesting homosexuals should be a concentration camp. All in all, easier to 'forgive' what they perceive as an overly-passionate sermon and read some Psalms to make themselves feel good about religion again.
Not to mention it seems that moral courage is not for everybody...
Quote from: Radiant on May 25, 2012, 03:10:36 PM
The ex-Progressive Christian in me wants to rip this guy's words apart.
But I need not to, because his logic is already so astoundingly stupid (Lets send all of the current homosexuals to camps and they'll die because they can't reproduce, and we won't have anymore homosexuals!).
Although, I think what bothers me is some of the Christians' responses I have seen to this. I literally saw one say "Big deal. Yes there are extremists in this world. There are extremist homophobes and then there are also extremist homosexuals."
Right... Because there are totally extremist homosexuals who want to take rights away from heterosexuals and send them to camps to die. And because those extremist homosexuals are totally in positions of power. They totally have a powerful concept over the masses like God to claim to speak for, and, of course, their views are totally widely accepted so they have influence over the government and law.
It's just not even comparable, I'm sorry.
I can't imagine people so obediently sitting through this, nodding,,then going about their day. "What an enlighting service!"
Surely every single person on earth knows a homosexual. I mean, gemme a break. This kind of thinking is dangerous, when you control a group of idiots who follow orders so gleefully.
::)
Can we please shut these hate meetings down? Ugh
Well, I just found this. Maybe it will lighten the mood a bit?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp202%2Fbudhorse4%2Fcaede946.jpg&hash=88a06fc9a852073b59efd182ed56af5ecd5b5acd)
Thanks Budhorse.
It still just sucks that people like that exist..