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Atheist Image Dump II

Started by Whitney, April 30, 2011, 02:06:06 AM

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Icarus

 ^I doubt that the first five items have done as much damage to humanity as has the last one.

Tank

Quote from: Icarus on February 21, 2021, 04:35:40 AM
^I doubt that the first five items have done as much damage to humanity as has the last one.

Quite so!

And on the same theme.

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Papasito Bruno

"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Icarus

^ good to know.  I would not be happy if forced to live with all those devout christian types who made their way through the pearly gates. 

Dark Lightning

"You go to heaven, and after walking past enough jewel-encrusted buildings, it gets a bit boring". Or something like that. Paraphrasing Heinlein from "JOB- A Comedy of Justice".

Papasito Bruno

"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 24, 2022, 07:55:35 PM


i have considered for many years that sentiencemay be an obligatory charactacteristic of matter.

in that, like animists, i tend to believe that any conglomeration of matter may have an identity of which self awareness is a part.

i have not considered this in depth at any time.

what is your opinion?


more people have been to berlin than i have

billy rubin

Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 24, 2022, 07:55:35 PM


i wonder about this.

the nature of both life and consciousness is something that science has never really been able to explain, except by assertion. i have often wondered whether both are simply states of matter that exist on a gradational scale, not quite animism but close to it maybe.

in other words, perhaps life is a simple state of matter that inevitably occurs when a certain level of complexity is achieved, and the usual measures of life that we use should be expanded. gaia type stuff.

similarly with consciousness. i recall a discussion once with a botanist about behaviour. she said that plants behaved as well as animals, and i asked her defntion of behaviour was quite simple, and not bad:  slow movement.

sorry about the music



more people have been to berlin than i have

Papasito Bruno

I understand, and accept consciousness to be an emergent property of the brain. The evidence for this is derived from our general experience of human morality, along with the study of neuroscience which generally supports this concept which again is that consciousness is an emergent property of the physical activity of the neurons of the brain.

So I would say that science explains this fairly well, at least to the point that I can understand it.

Animism, and I admit I don't know that much about it except what I just looked up on Wikipedia purports that "objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence."

So basically a soul, and I don't believe in souls, because if they don't possess a brain, then they can't have either intelligence or consciousness.

I think it's obvious animals have a consciousness, and they certainly also exhibit intelligence behavior, though I would suggest obviously that animals don't have the same level of consciousness or awareness which humans have, but that doesn't mean they don't or can't have some level of self-thought, or the notion of personal identity if that makes sense.


A tree or plant is certainly alive, but as they don't have brains then I don't see how they can have any level of actual consciousness. Certainly they have the ability to react to their environment, but I'm not sure they do so with conscious intent. More likely a plants response to its environment has to do with genetic encoding, which over countless generations may give the appearance of intentional action.

I don't see at all how any innate object like a rock can have or possess consciousness.

That said I do feel sorry for the toilet :P
"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

billy rubin

Quote from: Papasito Bruno on February 25, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
I think it's obvious animals have a consciousness, and they certainly also exhibit intelligence behavior, though I would suggest obviously that animals don't have the same level of consciousness or awareness which humans have, but that doesn't mean they don't or can't have some level of self-thought, or the notion of personal identity if that makes sense.

if consciousness is on a continuum, then i think its possible that lower levels of it might not be recognizable to us. planaria can navigate a simple maze, so they appear to be consious. what about slime molds? or plants, as you discuss

Quote
A tree or plant is certainly alive, but as they don't have brains then I don't see how they can have any level of actual consciousness. Certainly they have the ability to react to their environment, but I'm not sure they do so with conscious intent. More likely a plants response to its environment has to do with genetic encoding, which over countless generations may give the appearance of intentional action.

I don't see at all how any innate object like a rock can have or possess consciousness.


i think tying consciousness to having a nervous system might be missing what consiousness is. in animals, we use a nervouse system to rapidly process environmental stimuli and to initiate, control, and end what we call behaviour.

but sunflowers rotate their leaves and flower heads to follow the sun. its not material growth that lets them do it, its cellular turgor and fluid pressure in the vessels that inflate or deflate one side or another of the plant.

is that behaviour? its not nervous-system directed, but does behaviour require a nervouse system? the sunflowers move and respond to stimuli, and predict futeure conditions and behave to accomodate them. i suspect that that qualifies as consciousness, in any way that i might define it.

perhaps a definition of consiousness might be appropriate.

regarding thinking rocks, thats a speculation on my part. since i dont know what consiousness is, i dont know what would be excluded. is a rock a live? mineral and ceramic crystals grow. are they alive? i dont know.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Papasito Bruno

#1451
I love this! LOL ;D

"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Dark Lightning

^ Lot's wife- the only white person in the ancient middle east. :smilenod:

Papasito Bruno

Quote from: Dark Lightning on February 27, 2022, 12:03:02 AM
^ Lot's wife- the only white person in the ancient middle east. :smilenod:

DL, what's makes it even more amusing is I've heard from some rather good sources that she was actually more akin to Himalayan Salt, than your normal white, table salt ;)
"Most people would rather be boring than be bored." <br />― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

Dark Lightning