In summary...
Fukushima earthquake and tsunami (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami")
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.italianitalianinelmondo.com%2Fpublic%2Ffckedtr%2Fimage%2FTsunamiGiappone2011.jpg&hash=c44d57df5c3c98cd2f1b3297e166924c146abecd)
Indonesia earthquake and tsunami, 230.000 dead (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami")
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cooperantesblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F03%2Fbefore_after_tsunami_2004_500.jpg&hash=5448ec09c1681b58c66d21038f6581e48287b476)
Will Israel strike Iran this fall? (http://"http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-conservative/2012/may/7/will-israel-strike-iran-fall/")
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.destrablog.eu%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2Fnucleare.jpg&hash=581025021167c754ec9caf61e10ba016a167096f)
The arab spring revolutions (http://"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8839143/Arab-Spring-timeline-of-the-African-and-Middle-East-rebellions.html#")
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fe7%2FArab_Spring_map_reframed.svg%2F350px-Arab_Spring_map_reframed.svg.png&hash=f469058f2d04d14063dae8fc95f03e5fc097f23e)
Economist: Bank run, the biggest fear they cannot stop (http://"http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/05/europes-biggest-fear")
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.economist.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Ffull-width%2Fimages%2F2012%2F05%2Fblogs%2Fschumpeter%2Fbank3.jpg&hash=3daec582dbc65b2619c576c17f658030211f40cf)
And many other events I don't want to list now. Have you, as me, a definite or strong feeling that too many what rotten luck are happening all together? And they are increasing in number and in frequency?
Is the show coming to end as predicted 2000 years ago?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pic4ever.com%2Fimages%2Fballoony.gif&hash=9724653a4ce6d2652b1d63e8b81492f95128a0d7)
Quote from: Holubice on June 20, 2012, 12:44:02 PM
And many other events I don't want to list now. Have you, as me, a definite or strong feeling that too many what rotten luck are happening all together? And they are increasing in number and in frequency?
Is the show coming to end as predicted 2000 years ago?
No I don't share your interpretation that a few natural and financial disasters relate to any ancient prophecy.
Tsunamis aren't new, there's seven times more people on the planet now than 200 years ago, a natural disaster is likely to have a higher death toll. News travels quick so things that in times past wouldn't have been known are news. I don't think we are living in the darkest days of the past century, not when there's been two world wars and a great depression.
I don't see any significance in the Arab spring.
What are these 2,000 year old predictions anyway? Things that the delusional loosers can twist to fit whatever is happening it seems. Why didn't these ancient geniuses warn us of the need for prudential regulation or the down side of burning fossil fuels?
Do we ignore all the good things? China, India and other Asian countries are doing better, people aren't starving as they used to. Modern medicine is allowing people to live longer healthier lives.
The world faces serious problems and opportunities, some morons waste time considering crazy ancient babblings, if they keep out of the way I suppose I can just laugh them off.
I say what Pudding said, only in less politically correct words.
Here's (http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm) a list of 46 failed end of the world predictions between 30 and 1920 AD.
I'm sure there are plenty more since 1920, but I'm too lazy to check.
No. The end is not approaching. At least, not in a biblical sense.
The world is ending, it's true. In the same way that you and I and everyone on the planet are dying, right now, at this very moment. Every moment brings us closer to the inevitable, that we will die and become dust, and that the world that we know will be eaten by a supernova sun or knocked out of orbit by a gigantic meteor, or whatever. All things are finite, except the ones that aren't. But the ravings of Bronze Age desert tribes have little to do with that, except to give the weak something else to hang on to, rather than peeking into the abyss of their own mortality.
(I'm feeling a bit dark at the mo.)
Hello again, Holubice. The leopard has not changed his spots, I see. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rationalskepticism.org%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ficon_yawn2.gif&hash=1c1578d7dc9e400e9cd14a543cea8df03d1f0b72)
Out of curiosity, which 2000 year old prediction of ultimate doom are you referencing here? If you're talking about the Bible, which specific prediction?
Worlds end, eh?! Ah well... not really such a big loss in the grander scheme of things is it? I'm not sure anyone else in the vast cosmos will grieve, care or even notice.
I certainly won't care. Why not? Because I'll be f**king dead!
What makes you think I even give a rats ass if the world ends anyway?
World ends? nah that will keep spinning for a good while yet I reckon before its destroyed. Could do you just never know.
Quote from: Crow on June 20, 2012, 05:30:20 PM
World ends? nah that will keep spinning for a good while yet I reckon before its destroyed. Could do you just never know.
Something in the order of 4 billion years to go last time I read anything serious about the issue.
History always repeats itself but I'm not referring to the end but to these natural causes and turmoils.
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
I read that some of them even predicted that England would win the European Nations Cup in 2012.How preposterous can you get?
I had more faith in Paul the octopuses than I did the Mayans.
Quote from: En_Route on June 20, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
I read that some of them even predicted that England would win the European Nations Cup in 2012.How preposterous can you get?
I heard they predicted that the Chicago Cubs and New York mets would Both win the NL pennant and they would declare that the AL would be out of the World Series. The game would then be declared a tie on account of the Psychols coming to Earth and declaring that they would be enslaving the NY yankees who would then be used as gold miners. Both the Cubs and Yankees would be declared winners of the Series before being audited by the resurreced L. Ron hubbard who would then declare John Travolta emperor of Jupiter.
*Yawn*
The same old "the world was a better place, it's rotten now" or "there are more natural diasters but the fact that people are both betetr able to defend themselves against them by predicting and preparing and that there are more people in the world so it's obvious that more people will be affaected by more disasters because nobody talks about some tradegy that happens in the middle of the antartic or Siberian ice lands andymore and whew that was a long sentence but I have so much to say and so little time if the world is ending but I will stop now because this topic really bores me.
*Yawn*
Full circle.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
Quote from: En_Route on June 20, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
I read that some of them even predicted that England would win the European Nations Cup in 2012.How preposterous can you get?
I heard they predicted that the Chicago Cubs and New York mets would Both win the NL pennant and they would declare that the AL would be out of the World Series. The game would then be declared a tie on account of the Psychols coming to Earth and declaring that they would be enslaving the NY yankees who would then be used as gold miners. Both the Cubs and Yankees would be declared winners of the Series before being audited by the resurreced L. Ron hubbard who would then declare John Travolta emperor of Jupiter.
Well they were renowned for their partiality to mind-altering substances.They used to sacrifice virgins to a background of Pink Floyd's greatest hits. I wonder if they have massage parlours on Jupiter?
I'm waiting for fish running mad in the streets and walls weeping blood before I start wondering about signs of the end.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
To be fair to the Mayans, it's not like that. Their stellar chart was a calender, not a prophecy. They were actually quite advanced in astronomy.
If anyone hasn't gotten to know Holubice already, go back and read his previous posts (I hadn't till now). It's comedy gold.
Natural disasters have been happening on Earth since the beginning, it's still here. If it does come to an end: it'll be 'cause of "man", or some astroid or comet, or whatever that's big enough to wipe us out.
But nature happens.
-Nam
Rather than ancient predictions of what was going to happen next year which have been recycled ever since, I prefer the modern attempts to identify what mental disorder inspired them. Schizophrenia, magic mushrooms, a bumped head, heat stroke or malnutrition perhaps.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on June 21, 2012, 05:38:47 AM
Rather than ancient predictions of what was going to happen next year which have been recycled ever since, I prefer the modern attempts to identify what mental disorder inspired them. Schizophrenia, magic mushrooms, a bumped head, heat stroke or malnutrition perhaps.
Or the elusive "alcohol" induced paranoia -- is that blasphemy?
(Hides)
-Nam
I don't think that I will spent to much time worrying about the the world ending by natural disaster. Humans have been surviving natural disasters as long as there have been humans on this rock. The recent spat of disasters, While they have killed large numbers of people, do not come even close to qualifying for an end of the world event.
Of course the End is approaching. At least until someone figures out how to stop the march of time. Could take a while though, I wouldn't quit my day job just yet.
Some time back I heard an interview with an ex-priest turned atheist. He stated that people have been predicting the 2nd coming of Christ since shortly after Christ's death. In fact people alive at that time predicted he would return during thier lifetimes. And then additional groups have popped up every decade or so since, so 200 odd different groups predicting the end.
The only thing all of these folks had in common was that they all were wrong. C'est la vie.
So you think the present situation is just a "nihil sub sole novum (http://"http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nihil_sub_sole_novum")"?
Is out there someone aware about a list of catastrophes omened by a middle east mystic about 2000 years ago? I mean this list
Parousia (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology")
Or, if you want, the events in this account:
Redde rationem (http://"http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47&bible_chapter=24")
Are you so sure this is not the begging of the End explained above?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pic4ever.com%2Fimages%2Freading.gif&hash=7e64db487d9291753ce1079376aa288532f86f93)
Oh my, how tiresome. You've done a genuinely wretched job of preaching in that post,
Holubice. None of your links work, and really it's no loss, since you're just regurgitating the same tired old
"The End is Nigh!!™" yawpings that have been the standard fare of predatory religious snake-oil salesmen for literally thousands of years. Luckily I wasn't expecting anything more interesting, otherwise I might have been mildly disappointed. I'll save some of the more curious members of HAF some time, and link to the relevant chapter of the Christian holy book (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2024&version=KJV).
Quote from: Holubice on June 21, 2012, 09:45:39 AM
. . . the begging of the End . . .
Indeed
The Book of Asmoism clearly states that life on Earth will not end for a few billion years yet. Then, The Asmo will explode the sun, making it expand beyond the orbit of Venus and scorch the Earth to a cinder.
Who are you gonna trust, some ancient fool from some random desert country, or His Infernal Grayness?
Quote from: Holubice on June 21, 2012, 09:45:39 AM
Are you so sure this is not the begging of the End explained above?
If this is the
beginning of the end, then certainly there's still a middle of the end and end of the end still to come. Hakuna Matata.
Yeah the end is approaching.
It began approaching the day you I or anybody else were born, you see we all die at some point. From the second we are born we are getting busy dying. You don't need to go around telling people an end is coming as everyone knows it is, you may as well go around telling people the sky is blue and do as much use as you are now.
People can pick up on various things from the bible depending on their nature. We see people embrace a love of others do good way of life, others are petty and look down on unbelievers. I wonder at the nature of someone who picks out horrible end time stories as "truths" that talk to them.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
Quote from: En_Route on June 20, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
I read that some of them even predicted that England would win the European Nations Cup in 2012.How preposterous can you get?
I heard they predicted that the Chicago Cubs and New York mets would Both win the NL pennant and they would declare that the AL would be out of the World Series. The game would then be declared a tie on account of the Psychols coming to Earth and declaring that they would be enslaving the NY yankees who would then be used as gold miners. Both the Cubs and Yankees would be declared winners of the Series before being audited by the resurreced L. Ron hubbard who would then declare John Travolta emperor of Jupiter.
As a Cubs fan, I have eagerly been awaiting the day this prophesy is realized my entire life.
Quote from: fester30 on June 21, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
Quote from: En_Route on June 20, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
I read that some of them even predicted that England would win the European Nations Cup in 2012.How preposterous can you get?
I heard they predicted that the Chicago Cubs and New York mets would Both win the NL pennant and they would declare that the AL would be out of the World Series. The game would then be declared a tie on account of the Psychols coming to Earth and declaring that they would be enslaving the NY yankees who would then be used as gold miners. Both the Cubs and Yankees would be declared winners of the Series before being audited by the resurreced L. Ron hubbard who would then declare John Travolta emperor of Jupiter.
As a Cubs fan, I have eagerly been awaiting the day this prophesy is realized my entire life.
Just keep believing.
Well, just suppose it really, truly, actually was the end. Like, the astronomers suddenly spot a planet-size asteroid which is incontrovertibly headed for a smack dab head on collision with Earth, incontrovertibly bound to end all life as we know it but for a few bacteria? What would we, or what could we, do different anyhow?
It's easy to imagine that the folks with an already morbid sense of gloom and doom might panic, or riot, or huddle in prayer, or comit group suicide. Whatever.
Personally, I'd take it as one helluva great excuse not to bother, once again, with that new roof my house needs and that's been bugging me for a couple years now.
Quote from: Inertialmass on June 21, 2012, 02:34:49 PM
Well, just suppose it really, truly, actually was the end.
Ooh! Speculating! Do let's! ;D
QuoteLike, the astronomers suddenly spot a planet-size asteroid which is incontrovertibly headed for a smack dab head on collision with Earth, incontrovertibly bound to end all life as we know it but for a few bacteria?
Heheh... How about we keep the speculations to what's reasonable, perhaps? An asteroid of that size would give us centuries of warning.
QuoteWhat would we, or what could we, do different anyhow?
Quite a lot. We could dance naked in the streets, go on massive killing sprees, take up loans we couldn't possibly ever pay back... Or maybe be boring and work to preserve at least some human civilizations. Me, I'd go with the statistics and expect to die.
QuoteIt's easy to imagine that the folks with an already morbid sense of gloom and doom might panic, or riot, or huddle in prayer, or comit group suicide. Whatever.
If you are looking for the reaction of the hordes of idiots in the streets, I'd say probably all of the above and then some.
QuotePersonally, I'd take it as one helluva great excuse not to bother, once again, with that new roof my house needs and that's been bugging me for a couple years now.
A healthy approach. What does a dead guy need a roof for anyways? And if you were one of the unlucky few to make it, the roof would probably be the least of your worries... And be on fire besides.
I would EAT and EAT and EAT. And take up smoking again. And run up a LOT of credit card debt on impossibly pretty clothes. ZOMA! The end of the world would be a hoot!
I.... can't.... resist...
A planet sized asteroid would be a planet.
Quote from: fester30 on June 21, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
I heard they predicted that the Chicago Cubs and New York mets would Both win the NL pennant and they would declare that the AL would be out of the World Series. The game would then be declared a tie on account of the Psychols coming to Earth and declaring that they would be enslaving the NY yankees who would then be used as gold miners. Both the Cubs and Yankees would be declared winners of the Series before being audited by the resurreced L. Ron hubbard who would then declare John Travolta emperor of Jupiter.
As a Cubs fan, I have eagerly been awaiting the day this prophesy is realized my entire life.
As a Mets fan, I object to this, except the part where the Psychols enslave the Yankees. I thought you said the Mets also won the pennant? This is crap!!
Anyway, I'd probably just drink a lot. There's lots of beers I haven't had a chance to try yet.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2012, 02:11:42 AM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on June 20, 2012, 09:05:02 PM
Believing that mayans in loincloths hunting with spears 2000 years ago could actually predict anything when they failed to predict their own demise is a bunch of malarkey.
To be fair to the Mayans, it's not like that. Their stellar chart was a calender, not a prophecy. They were actually quite advanced in astronomy.
Yes that is quite right. Just like the ancient Egyptians. The Egyptians also came up with the quadratic formula as a way to pay there workers. But you are also quite right on the other point. Their calendar just ends. There really is no prophecy. Just another thing that people have twisted and been completely wrong about.
Quote from: Asmodean on June 21, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
Heheh... How about we keep the speculations to what's reasonable, perhaps? An asteroid of that size would give us centuries of warning.
Quote from: Tank on June 21, 2012, 06:00:34 PM
I.... can't.... resist...
A planet sized asteroid would be a planet.
Yeah, of course you're correct. Trouble is, the more descriptive, "gravitationally unbound nomad planet" doesn't have quite the
impact we come to expect from the usual "killer asteroid." :) http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/How-Many-Unbound-Planets-Roam-the-Milky-Way-140917963.html
Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
...And take up smoking again...
Ah, I forgot all about that. Nine years and I still miss those stupid suckers. So I'd lay upon my rotting roof, smoking, looking at the stars, looking for the predicted gravitationally unbound nomad killer planet, while reminiscing what a really really great run humanity made of it.
I'd be smoking cigarettes during my last days too, except for me, that would be the norm. :D
Quote from: Inertialmass on June 22, 2012, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
...And take up smoking again...
Ah, I forgot all about that. Nine years and I still miss those stupid suckers. So I'd lay upon my rotting roof, smoking, looking at the stars, looking for the predicted gravitationally unbound nomad killer planet, while reminiscing what a really really great run humanity made of it.
There's something just...really awesome about imagining a planet slowly but surely take up the entire horizon.
It's one of those things - if I have to go, I'd want to go like that, being totally obviated by an incoming planet.
Quote from: Tank on June 21, 2012, 06:00:34 PM
I.... can't.... resist...
A planet sized asteroid would be a planet.
I snorted milk out my nose!! :D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 22, 2012, 04:34:48 AM
Quote from: Inertialmass on June 22, 2012, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
...And take up smoking again...
Ah, I forgot all about that. Nine years and I still miss those stupid suckers. So I'd lay upon my rotting roof, smoking, looking at the stars, looking for the predicted gravitationally unbound nomad killer planet, while reminiscing what a really really great run humanity made of it.
There's something just...really awesome about imagining a planet slowly but surely take up the entire horizon.
It's one of those things - if I have to go, I'd want to go like that, being totally obviated by an incoming planet.
It seems like everything would go nuts waaay before the actual impact, so I don't know that we would be around to see it. Like, I'm picturing the gravitational force of the planet totally messing up the tides and whatnot, which would probably mess up the weather and kill all the food and whatnot. Not to mention blocking out the sun and causing some kind of nuclear winter.
But what do I know, the picture of a planet filling up the whole sky is definitely a cool mental image.
Quote from: Ali on June 22, 2012, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 22, 2012, 04:34:48 AM
Quote from: Inertialmass on June 22, 2012, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
...And take up smoking again...
Ah, I forgot all about that. Nine years and I still miss those stupid suckers. So I'd lay upon my rotting roof, smoking, looking at the stars, looking for the predicted gravitationally unbound nomad killer planet, while reminiscing what a really really great run humanity made of it.
There's something just...really awesome about imagining a planet slowly but surely take up the entire horizon.
It's one of those things - if I have to go, I'd want to go like that, being totally obviated by an incoming planet.
It seems like everything would go nuts waaay before the actual impact, so I don't know that we would be around to see it. Like, I'm picturing the gravitational force of the planet totally messing up the tides and whatnot, which would probably mess up the weather and kill all the food and whatnot. Not to mention blocking out the sun and causing some kind of nuclear winter.
But what do I know, the picture of a planet filling up the whole sky is definitely a cool mental image.
By my calculations it would take about 33 hours at 20km/s for a planet to reach us from as far away as venus (at its closest). I'm guessing that we'd not feel any undue gravitational forces before then. So we'd have less than two days to enjoy the spectacle while the world goes bonkers around us.
I'd grab for my tobacco pipe, a bottle of Chateauneuf De Pape, some french cheese and, of course, some liquorice, find a nice spot to sit and watch the sky and relax with a smile.
EDIT: OOPS! recalculation... make that 22 days.
So, I'll get very fat and very drunk, but will have more time to relax with a smile...
I have memorized this song, for just such an occasion.
http://youtu.be/7ILNpR9DfYE (http://youtu.be/7ILNpR9DfYE)
;D
Seriously, my husband and I have a pact that if the "world ends" while we're around, we're going to get wasted and sing this song ad nauseum.
^ Aaah, what about the little fellow?
I know just what I'd like to be doing as the world ends, but Mrs Git wouldn't let her in the house.
Quote from: OldGit on June 22, 2012, 08:24:26 PM
^ Aaah, what about the little fellow?
I'm betting that the world doesn't end before he's 19, afterwhich, he can join us. If he wants to. ;D
Quote from: Scissorlegs on June 22, 2012, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: Ali on June 22, 2012, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 22, 2012, 04:34:48 AM
Quote from: Inertialmass on June 22, 2012, 12:23:14 AM
Quote from: Ali on June 21, 2012, 04:25:59 PM
...And take up smoking again...
Ah, I forgot all about that. Nine years and I still miss those stupid suckers. So I'd lay upon my rotting roof, smoking, looking at the stars, looking for the predicted gravitationally unbound nomad killer planet, while reminiscing what a really really great run humanity made of it.
There's something just...really awesome about imagining a planet slowly but surely take up the entire horizon.
It's one of those things - if I have to go, I'd want to go like that, being totally obviated by an incoming planet.
It seems like everything would go nuts waaay before the actual impact, so I don't know that we would be around to see it. Like, I'm picturing the gravitational force of the planet totally messing up the tides and whatnot, which would probably mess up the weather and kill all the food and whatnot. Not to mention blocking out the sun and causing some kind of nuclear winter.
But what do I know, the picture of a planet filling up the whole sky is definitely a cool mental image.
By my calculations it would take about 33 hours at 20km/s for a planet to reach us from as far away as venus (at its closest). I'm guessing that we'd not feel any undue gravitational forces before then. So we'd have less than two days to enjoy the spectacle while the world goes bonkers around us.
I'd grab for my tobacco pipe, a bottle of Chateauneuf De Pape, some french cheese and, of course, some liquorice, find a nice spot to sit and watch the sky and relax with a smile.
EDIT: OOPS! recalculation... make that 22 days.
So, I'll get very fat and very drunk, but will have more time to relax with a smile...
I think the nuclear winter would probably be a bigger immediate concern, I don't know how much something large eclipsing the sun would do in just a few hours tme, the effects could be rather extreme, I think.
Or if the moon crashes into the planet or has its orbit messed up in which case it would
also crash into Earth. That would be something.
This a bit scary to think of all this stuff :(
Quote from: Scissorlegs on June 22, 2012, 05:09:16 PM
So, I'll get very fat and very drunk, but will have more time to relax with a smile...
AH HA!The fat rightest stereotype takes hold in the end. :D
Hahahahahahahaha They all revert to type in the end, don't they? :P ;D
All of these responses are very disconcerting. I don't put any stock in the Mayan 2012 "prophecy", but I am sincerely worried about the increasing frequency with which the western world is experiencing panic after panic, crisis after crises, and upheaval after upheaval.
Even more concerning is the apathy and the attitude of avoiding the problem with drugs, or sex, or beer. In the event of mass chaos or societal collapse, I see the pending triumph of excess and celebration. It is as if all the children of western culture relish the idea of laughing like circus clowns, all while the towers topple and the schools blow up. There is a desire to dance on the ashes of the burning flags.
I see this, and I wonder where that noble ambition fled, that promise of enlightenment that lead us to the re-evaluation of values.
Is this the result of Nietchze and and Sartre? Is this the fruit of Locke and Sexton? Have we lost all sense of honor and greatness that in the face of death we have no will to step away? Do we shake hands with the snake that bites us, and drink its venom as of vodka?
I am scared. I am terrified. There is such apathy and anger and destruction falling all around us, and yet I feel alone in wanting to survive. While others toast the flames, I mourn the loss of greatness. Shall I still, when all is still and done, salute the flag that's crushed beneath the boots of punk-goth vampires? Shall I be the last to paint my face with woad?
Where is the honor? Where is the glory? Where is the drive to live and love and make and know? What have we become when all we know is anger held by birds? Greed espoused by grand theft auto? Do you not see or know, why I have come to know despair? Do you not know? Do you not know?
Do you not care to sing the funeral dirges of a dying age?
A bit too emotional to be taken quite seriously enough, but nicely enough written, RR.
If the shit hits the fan, well, then the fan will get shitty. I, for one, like numbers and statistics, and if it was forecast that ninety five out of every hundred in my area will die as a result of some event, I would consider myself among the soon-to-be-dead. I would not attempt to make it into the unlucky few to survive unless there was something I in fact could do to increase my chances above at least five percent.
As for honor and glory and all the other crap that is utterly useless to the dead... Why bother? Make your last hours as pleasant as possible and then... An eternity of nothing. If you survive, then you can start being honorable and gaining glory if you so wish. Me, I'd be more inclined to become a scavanger - at least for a time.
Anyone seen the old animated movie, When the Wind Blows?
About an elderly couple, preparing for imminent nuclear war. The bomb goes off, they get progressively sicker and sicker, and throughout they keep a very positive, denial attitude.
When the Wind Blows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9aHT-IlkHo&feature=related)
I think my particular intensity of emotion might have influenced the writing of that post. I genuinely feel very upset and concerned about this topic. Furthermore, I hope you can understand that in the face of an unfeeling firmament and an uncaring universe, it is honor and the goodness of man which holds me to life. Even in death I will hold an honorable death as more valuable than an apathetic one.
The result is that I care to live. I care to succeed and grow and not to perish. In fact, the very idea of simply accepting a fate of death is anathema. I can not, and I will not accept it.
I apologize, but I am currently getting very upset and worked up about this. I feel perhaps it is best that I step away from the computer for a few minutes. I...need to calm down. I need to calm down. I will be back.
Quote from: RenegeReversi on June 23, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
I think my particular intensity of emotion might have influenced the writing of that post. I genuinely feel very upset and concerned about this topic. Furthermore, I hope you can understand that in the face of an unfeeling firmament and an uncaring universe, it is honor and the goodness of man which holds me to life. Even in death I will hold an honorable death as more valuable than an apathetic one.
Everyone who likes to think that they exist more than to continue their existence has something personally important to live for. And I suppose I've heard worse, if equally valid, reasons for living than honor and goodness of man.
I disagree on the point of one death being more valuable than another when faced with an end of days kind of event, but again, I think this is a personal thing.
QuoteThe result is that I care to live. I care to succeed and grow and not to perish. In fact, the very idea of simply accepting a fate of death is anathema. I can not, and I will not accept it.
I don't necessarilly want to be dead. However, if whatever I do to preserve my life does nothing to substantially increase my chances, I see no reason to try anyways. If failure is a near-certainty, I prefer to opt out of fighting.
QuoteI apologize, but I am currently getting very upset and worked up about this. I feel perhaps it is best that I step away from the computer for a few minutes. I...need to calm down. I need to calm down. I will be back.
Have a smoke - works for me :)
RR - I thought we were talking about inevitable destruction like a planet crashing into Earth. We wouldn't survive that, no matter how we acted or what we did/ My philosophy is that if I know I can't survive it, I would prefer to die with a laugh on my lips. I don't think that's dishonorable or even particularly undignified. Now, if it were something that I had a chance of surviving, like something a lot less global, like say a personal illness, then sure, I would fight to live. I usually love life, and I have plenty to live for. But if there is no chance anyway, I really don't see the point in making my last days scary and upsetting. I would rather spend them eating good and fattening foods and laughing with my loved ones. And smoking. LOL
Quote from: RenegeReversi on June 23, 2012, 10:05:30 PM
I am sincerely worried about the increasing frequency with which the western world is experiencing panic after panic, crisis after crises, and upheaval after upheaval.
Has there really ever been a time when the world, Western or Eastern, has
not been experiencing these things? Humans make messes -- everything living does but because of our brains humans tend to make bigger ones. If there's been a time when this was not so, I haven't seen it recorded in anything other than fairy tales, and the occasional discovery of a previsouly hidden people whose culture hasn't progressed in eons. Personally, I'm willing to trade modern weaponry for modern medicine and dentistry.
QuoteDo you not care to sing the funeral dirges of a dying age?
Absolutely not. Everything dies, it's inevitable and if now is the time for us, I'm going out partying.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 24, 2012, 01:46:59 AM
Absolutely not. Everything dies, it's inevitable and if now is the time for us, I'm going out partying.
Yes. Much better that way.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.myopera.com%2Fdebplatt%2Fsmiley%2Fparty-group.gif&hash=8ac1ffe83ee2daa3cb1e409a255a389512cb45ec)
I agree, RR, that was a well-written post. :)
Not to be morbid, but everything is already decay and death. Even if we could guarantee a pristine environment, you will die. I will die. My son will die. Everything dies. We're conditioned to feel that this is a horrible thing, a scary thing, something to avoid. But you can't avoid it and there's no sense in wasting energy fighting the inevitable. You can't control the inevitable, you can control you (and even that is debatable). That's it. If something in you calls to some grand aspiration at "making the world a better place" then, that's great. But then you have to sort through all of the trouble of deciding what "better" is. And that's a bit of a mine-field. I spent a couple of years exhausting myself on that one.
So, I don't try to change the world. I won't ever avert a nuclear disaster or cure cancer or save 3,000 African orphans. I have a very short window of life -- I don't know where it came from, I don't think there's any reason that I have it -- but here it is. I wake up every morning and there's sun outside and flowers on my balcony that need tending. So, what to do? I try to understand bits and pieces of it. I try to tune in to the things that make me happy, and I hope that they make the society around me function a little more smoothly (the only real measure of "good" or "bad" that makes sense to me). I feed my cats and find that contenting. I play with my son and find that contenting. I love my husband and find our shared lives pleasing. I write and I find that pretty satisfying.
That's all there is.
It's not horrifying, it's liberating. There's nothing big that really matters, so the little things have more meaning to me. The tiny little sums of everyday life are all anyone really has anyway - it just depends on how much you want to conflate it all in your mind. Why waste so much energy? Because, here's a secret, no one ever figures it all out. The over-wrought Philosopher, the multiple Nobel prize-winner. No one. As my signature says "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
There's my quasi-emotional retort. :)
Bravo DJ. Excellent post. Totally agree.
I probably should have emphasized the phrase, "increasing frequency".
I would, however, like to thank you guys for your replies. I've calmed down quite a bit and you make good sense. This may be due to my recent aveourrement of Catholicism. There was a kind of... vigilance present in the faith. I admit, I'm struggling. Not to recreate that same feeling of vigilance. I'm struggling to justify it.
I hope I can be understood.
For those interested, I turned my post into a kind of poem. Check it out, here: The Song of Dirges (http://allpoetry.com/poem/9765519-The_Song_of_Dirges__Sung_for_Us-by-Jose_Luis)
Quote from: Asmodean on June 24, 2012, 02:09:07 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 24, 2012, 01:46:59 AM
Absolutely not. Everything dies, it's inevitable and if now is the time for us, I'm going out partying.
Yes. Much better that way.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.myopera.com%2Fdebplatt%2Fsmiley%2Fparty-group.gif&hash=8ac1ffe83ee2daa3cb1e409a255a389512cb45ec)
so cute
I think you may be getting a little too worked up by our talk of natural disasters on the scale of a planet colliding with ours, and I take it that the others meant that scenario as a literal one. I sure did. The way I see it, if something like that were to happen, then it would be awesome because no one else could say that they went out with such a bang. Doesn't mean that I'm apathetic towards death in general.
But anyways, about the increasing frequency thing - do you really know that? As in have access to truthful statistics that weren't tampered with for social or economic purposes? Because what I see is much more media generated mass hysteria and more and more people in the world altering natural balance and suffering the increasing backlashes, as is to be expected.
Things like global warming for instance, are real problems waiting to happen, especially if there is a tipping point when it becomes a runaway effect. Life isn't likely to die out if we don't become another Venus (where lead melts on the surface) but human civilization in the current scale would become way more difficult to maintain. That's one thing that most people are apathetic towards, and probably don't give due importance either because they think they can't or due to bystander effect, feelings of personal responsibility become inversely proportional to the amount of bystanders.
Or the destruction of nature for instance. It's disconcerting to see the scales at which bioms are destroyed by people who just want profit, and since raw nature can't give them money, they think it worthless. There could be solutions to yet unknown problems there, making their worth actually incaluable but once it's gone, it's gone forever.
Anyways my main point was be careful with the media, they have their agendas and truthfulness isn't one of them. If anything I feel more disconcerted by just how easily people are manipulated than the all the fear-mongering that goes on.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 24, 2012, 05:40:06 PM
I think you may be getting a little too worked up by our talk of natural disasters on the scale of a planet colliding with ours, and I take it that the others meant that scenario as a literal one. I sure did. The way I see it, if something like that were to happen, then it would be awesome because no one else could say that they went out with such a bang. Doesn't mean that I'm apathetic towards death in general.
But anyways, about the increasing frequency thing - do you really know that? As in have access to truthful statistics that weren't tampered with for social or economic purposes? Because what I see is much more media generated mass hysteria and more and more people in the world altering natural balance and suffering the increasing backlashes, as is to be expected.
Things like global warming for instance, are real problems waiting to happen, especially if there is a tipping point when it becomes a runaway effect. Life isn't likely to die out if we don't become another Venus (where lead melts on the surface) but human civilization in the current scale would become way more difficult to maintain. That's one thing that most people are apathetic towards, and probably don't give due importance either because they think they can't or due to bystander effect, feelings of personal responsibility become inversely proportional to the amount of bystanders.
Or the destruction of nature for instance. It's disconcerting to see the scales at which bioms are destroyed by people who just want profit, and since raw nature can't give them money, they think it worthless. There could be solutions to yet unknown problems there, making their worth actually incaluable but once it's gone, it's gone forever.
Anyways my main point was be careful with the media, they have their agendas and truthfulness isn't one of them. If anything I feel more disconcerted by just how easily people are manipulated than the all the fear-mongering that goes on.
Completely agree with this. This world has gone through other crises before and undoubtedly will continue to do so long after we're gone. What didn't exist before was a hyperconnected populace, and media using that to feed disaster porn constantly to the masses. Think things are bad now? Read about what happened during the Great Depression, or the number of people who died in the Civil War, the two World Wars, or even the people who died during the Black Plague. We're actually in a relatively calmer period of our existence despite all the problems we continue to endure.
One of the major issues I have with religion is how it is used to disavow any responsibility for solving such issues. Don't want to admit you're causing global warming? Say it's all up to god. Etc.
Quote from: Firebird on June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 24, 2012, 05:40:06 PM
I think you may be getting a little too worked up by our talk of natural disasters on the scale of a planet colliding with ours, and I take it that the others meant that scenario as a literal one. I sure did. The way I see it, if something like that were to happen, then it would be awesome because no one else could say that they went out with such a bang. Doesn't mean that I'm apathetic towards death in general.
But anyways, about the increasing frequency thing - do you really know that? As in have access to truthful statistics that weren't tampered with for social or economic purposes? Because what I see is much more media generated mass hysteria and more and more people in the world altering natural balance and suffering the increasing backlashes, as is to be expected.
Things like global warming for instance, are real problems waiting to happen, especially if there is a tipping point when it becomes a runaway effect. Life isn't likely to die out if we don't become another Venus (where lead melts on the surface) but human civilization in the current scale would become way more difficult to maintain. That's one thing that most people are apathetic towards, and probably don't give due importance either because they think they can't or due to bystander effect, feelings of personal responsibility become inversely proportional to the amount of bystanders.
Or the destruction of nature for instance. It's disconcerting to see the scales at which bioms are destroyed by people who just want profit, and since raw nature can't give them money, they think it worthless. There could be solutions to yet unknown problems there, making their worth actually incaluable but once it's gone, it's gone forever.
Anyways my main point was be careful with the media, they have their agendas and truthfulness isn't one of them. If anything I feel more disconcerted by just how easily people are manipulated than the all the fear-mongering that goes on.
Completely agree with this. This world has gone through other crises before and undoubtedly will continue to do so long after we're gone. What didn't exist before was a hyperconnected populace, and media using that to feed disaster porn constantly to the masses. Think things are bad now? Read about what happened during the Great Depression, or the number of people who died in the Civil War, the two World Wars, or even the people who died during the Black Plague. We're actually in a relatively calmer period of our existence despite all the problems we continue to endure.
One of the major issues I have with religion is how it is used to disavow any responsibility for solving such issues. Don't want to admit you're causing global warming? Say it's all up to god. Etc.
Or that god will always provide and so we needn't worry. I don't know where they see the evidence for this sort of thing ::)
QuoteThink things are bad now? Read about what happened during the Great Depression, or the number of people who died in the Civil War, the two World Wars, or even the people who died during the Black Plague.
This. :) What is it about past golden ages that people cling to? I don't get it.
Quote from: Firebird on June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
Think things are bad now? Read about what happened during the Great Depression, or the number of people who died in the Civil War, the two World Wars, or even the people who died during the Black Plague. We're actually in a relatively calmer period of our existence despite all the problems we continue to endure.
Exactly. Compare what we have now with earlier periods, the 12th century for example, and the modern world shows a
decreasing frequency of toil and trouble.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on June 25, 2012, 12:39:37 AM
Quote from: Firebird on June 24, 2012, 06:47:43 PM
Think things are bad now? Read about what happened during the Great Depression, or the number of people who died in the Civil War, the two World Wars, or even the people who died during the Black Plague. We're actually in a relatively calmer period of our existence despite all the problems we continue to endure.
Exactly. Compare what we have now with earlier periods, the 12th century for example, and the modern world shows a decreasing frequency of toil and trouble.
Not to mention we are better off. Someone once said to me that these days we live better than the King did at Versailles during the height of the Ancient Regime. Do I envy them? nah.
Damnation! I'm going to wear combact jacket as a midled aged man...
"Guardian: Syria shot at second Turkish jet, Ankara claims" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/25/syria-shooting-second-turkish-plane-claim?intcmp=239)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giornalettismo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FTurkish-McDonnell-Douglas-F-4-Phantom-II-by-asian-defence-19-770x511.jpg&hash=d2c618ccacad81b664bbecbb3187d107b6a33655)
"Turkey has sharply raised the stakes in a military standoff with Syria, claiming one of its search and rescue planes was shot at as it tried to find a Turkish jet shot down on Friday by Syrian gunners.
Bülent Arınç, the deputy prime minister, said the rescue plane had been attacked as it flew over the Mediterranean searching for two pilots. The claim undermines Damascus's insistence that the first jet was attacked due to mistaken identity.
Nato is to hold consultations in Brussels on Tuesday morning over the incident, but the meeting will not lead to any form of military response, according to diplomats.
The downing of the Turkish military plane over what Ankara says were international waters was denounced by European Union foreign ministers. They called for full Syrian co-operation with an investigation and imposed a new round of sanctions on Bashar al-Assad's regime.
"The EU condemns the unacceptable shooting down by Syria of a Turkish military plane on 22 June. It offers its sympathies to the families of the airmen involved and commends Turkey's measured and responsible initial reaction," they said"
Is is just my feeling, or things are going form bad to worse?...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pic4ever.com%2Fimages%2Fhexer.gif&hash=bb8b27642867fe71c2fae079860348eb4d64a1dd)
Quote from: Holubice on June 26, 2012, 03:39:00 PM
Is is just my feeling, or things are going form bad to worse?...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pic4ever.com%2Fimages%2Fhexer.gif&hash=bb8b27642867fe71c2fae079860348eb4d64a1dd)
I think certain people love to moan about the world going to hell in a hand-basket, and that you chose a highly appropriate smiley.
Plane was in Syrian air space, yes? Should have stayed away. Turkish air force should have known better than to cross the air space of a country as unstable as Syria is now. And yet, they bitch and moan and whine and threaten with "response"
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 04:21:52 PM
Plane was in Syrian air space, yes? Should have stayed away. Turkish air force should have known better than to cross the air space of a country as unstable as Syria is now. And yet, they bitch and moan and whine and threaten with "response"
No state of war exists between Syria and Turkey. One aircraft does not an invasion make.
If the jet had been Israeli then the Syrians would have been justified to shoot it down as Israeli has nuclear weapons and has carried out unilateral strikes on its neighbours in the past.
It could have been on an espoinage mission for all they knew though, no? With a big camera on it, yes?
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
It could have been on an espoinage mission for all they knew though, no? With a big camera on it, yes?
Could have been. But without evidence to that effect you can't go killing the two men who are the crew of an F4.
Quote from: Tank on June 26, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
It could have been on an espoinage mission for all they knew though, no? With a big camera on it, yes?
Could have been. But without evidence to that effect you can't go killing the two men who are the crew of an F4.
Can't you though? When another nation's military aircraft is in your own back yard without permission to like... Be there?
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:36:05 PM
Quote from: Tank on June 26, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
It could have been on an espoinage mission for all they knew though, no? With a big camera on it, yes?
Could have been. But without evidence to that effect you can't go killing the two men who are the crew of an F4.
Can't you though? When another nation's military aircraft is in your own back yard without permission to like... Be there?
In the final analysis I think you're right that of course a country can defend itself in the same way an individual can. However during the cold war Russian jets regularly attempted to breach NATO airspace and were intercepted by fighters. If Syrian systems are sophisticated enough to track an incoming aircraft that should IMO first attempted an intercept.
Quote from: Tank on June 26, 2012, 06:53:05 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:36:05 PM
Quote from: Tank on June 26, 2012, 06:34:13 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 26, 2012, 06:28:09 PM
It could have been on an espoinage mission for all they knew though, no? With a big camera on it, yes?
Could have been. But without evidence to that effect you can't go killing the two men who are the crew of an F4.
Can't you though? When another nation's military aircraft is in your own back yard without permission to like... Be there?
In the final analysis I think you're right that of course a country can defend itself in the same way an individual can. However during the cold war Russian jets regularly attempted to breach NATO airspace and were intercepted by fighters. If Syrian systems are sophisticated enough to track an incoming aircraft that should IMO first attempted an intercept.
I'm not saying it's definitely true, but what if this really was just a training mission and the jet accidentally crossed into Syrian airspace briefly, which is at least feasible? Is it really best to shoot first without any warning? In this case, it's made an already tense situation much worse, not to mention the unnecessary loss of life.
Asmo, you argued in another post against taking immediate violent action when confronted with a hostile situation, as it would be rash to do so. Wouldn't this be a potentially rash response to a possible, but not necessarily, hostile situation?
Quote from: Firebird on June 26, 2012, 07:02:20 PM
Asmo, you argued in another post against taking immediate violent action when confronted with a hostile situation, as it would be rash to do so. Wouldn't this be a potentially rash response to a possible, but not necessarily, hostile situation?
Of course, and was there any semblance of stability in Syria, I'd be inclined to assign the blame to them. However, the situation there seems rather schizophrenic. Thus, their response to even minor provocations should be expected to be rather... Extreme. That aircraft should not have crossed their air space, as such an event may be interpreted as a sign of aggression when it occurs without warning. If the pilots didn't know where they were, then someone is (and/or was) an incompetent fool, pretty much. Incompetence is, however, a poor excuse.
The plane shot down over international waters as I understand it so I would guess taking are taking spy pictures of fish? I personally think the area is trigger happy, and all of them will shot at anything that moves. As for shooting down an Israeli jet I think that would only add one more group into the already crowded killing fields. Better idea is we all just stop selling them guns.
Quote from: cncracer on June 26, 2012, 09:12:31 PM
The plane shot down over international waters as I understand it so I would guess taking are taking spy pictures of fish? I personally think the area is trigger happy, and all of them will shot at anything that moves. As for shooting down an Israeli jet I think that would only add one more group into the already crowded killing fields. Better idea is we all just stop selling them guns.
Unfortunately the Israelis are quite capable of making many of their own weapon systems. Their MBT the Merkava (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava) is a beautifully designed vehicle very accurately tailored to the specific needs of the Israeli army. Just one example is the placement of the engine at the front of the tank which combines with an exit door at the rear. The Israeli army carried out a battle damage and casualty assessment and found that the majority of tank crew deaths happened when they were exiting a damaged tank through the turret hatches; so the gave them an alternative exit under cover of the bulk of the vehicle. The fire control systems, gun and armour are a match for any other tank and when met on Israeli soil probably unbeatable.