Happy Atheist Forum

my choice is socrates.  the poll limit is 10 so i wasnt able to include as many choices as i wanted to.

Nietzsche. Hands down. Love him, love him, love him!  

Ayn Rand...and I find it incredible that you didn't list her on your list.

Quote from: "Sophus"Nietzsche. Hands down. Love him, love him, love him!  :bananacolor:  :bananacolor:  

Quote from: "Mistermischief"Ayn Rand...and I find it incredible that you didn't list her on your list.

Ditto for me, Ayn Rand. I also find it incredible that an atheist would not list Rand.

Mick Jagger.  

realize i only had ten options, so i couldn't include rand.  even if i had 25 options, i could have found 15 philosophers more significant and historical than her.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Mick Jagger.  

I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see my red door and it has been painted black
Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts
It's not easy facin' up when your whole world is black


Wadin' through the waste stormy winter,
And there's not a friend to help you through.
Tryin' to stop the waves behind your eyeballs,
Drop your reds, drop your greens and blues.

Bleakness you can tap your foot to, that's philosophisen.

What happens when the existentialists see no Satre on the list?
There's gonna be trouble.

Philosophy is mental masturbation and Rand was a hypocrite, a liar and a moron.  None of the above, thanks.

I voted other as you don't have me listed on there. (not even a joke, I'm in one of my rare, serious posting moods this morning)  I don't need some old guy sitting around talking with some other old guy to tell me how to live my life thank you.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Mick Jagger. :headbang:


AS for you Raynd fans, how?  she was preachy to a fault, so much so that a large portion of her books weren't even in situ, but just here explaining her philosophys and why everyone else is a moron for thinking other wise.  I'll assume you've heard of the game BIOSHOCK?  THe hellish Dystopian City that the game presents is based off of the philosophys of "Atlas Shrugged" and "the Fountainhead" and the main villan in the game is actually an allegory for Ayn Raynd herself.  She is a horrible person, and her ideas go too far for my tastes.

Quote from: "Roganthis72"

Quote from: "Asmodean"Mick Jagger. :headbang:

You know, I only like the series because Greg House reminds me of me to such a degree that it's fun.  

The philosophy of Siddhattha Gotama appeals to me.  The following is from the Dhammapada

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow...

5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels...

145. Irrigators regulate the waters, fletchers straighten arrow shafts, carpenters shape wood, and the good control themselves.

Other: Steven Wright.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"Philosophy is mental masturbation and Rand was a hypocrite, a liar and a moron.  None of the above, thanks.

Why are you so hard on philosophy?  Wouldn't it be more correct to refer to it as mental calisthenics?

 It seems to me that philosophy has been integral to the forming of society.  Aren't the laws we obey shaped in large part by philosophy?

I have no idea.

I haven't read much philosophy, but I like John Rawls.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"Why are you so hard on philosophy?  

Because it reiterates its own assumptions.

QuoteWouldn't it be more correct to refer to it as mental calisthenics?

No.

QuoteIt seems to me that philosophy has been integral to the forming of society.  

As was slavery.

QuoteAren't the laws we obey shaped in large part by philosophy?

They're also shaped by empirical data.  Which one is valuable?

A big part of the problem I have with philosophy is that it clings to its ancient glory in an attempt to pretend that it's useful.  yes, in its barest form (pure logic) it's very useful.  Unfortunately, it has produced a lot of crap that has clung to the utility of logic.  Without a means by which to verify the premises, a conclusion is useless.  The same philosophy that spawned the equality of all men gave those equal men the right to own slaves of a different nationality.  Philosophy is too unreliable to be a useful tool on its own.

I have never been a fan of ethical egoism, so consequently, I am also not a fan of Ayn Rand.  What a miserable place the world would be if everyone lived their lives the way she suggested.

My favorite philosopher is Sartre.

Out of those listed, Aristotle. Over all, Thomas Aquinas. Of his interpreters, Etienne Gilson or Joseph Owens, although Henry Veatch is very high on my list as well.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"Why are you so hard on philosophy?  

Because it reiterates its own assumptions.

QuoteWouldn't it be more correct to refer to it as mental calisthenics?

No.

QuoteIt seems to me that philosophy has been integral to the forming of society.  

As was slavery.

QuoteAren't the laws we obey shaped in large part by philosophy?

They're also shaped by empirical data.  Which one is valuable?

A big part of the problem I have with philosophy is that it clings to its ancient glory in an attempt to pretend that it's useful.  yes, in its barest form (pure logic) it's very useful.  Unfortunately, it has produced a lot of crap that has clung to the utility of logic.  Without a means by which to verify the premises, a conclusion is useless.  The same philosophy that spawned the equality of all men gave those equal men the right to own slaves of a different nationality.  Philosophy is too unreliable to be a useful tool on its own.

I can't really argue with any of your points because I can't really  define philosophy.  I think philosophy is an integral part of all intellectual disciplines.  When a scientist employs a consistent method to find fact, she is practicing philosophy.  When the Supreme court is trying to decide the validity of a particular law, they are using philosophy.  However, that is obviously not what you mean when referring to philosophy.

I think I agree with your points in general if I understand you correctly.  In the past philosophers were concerned with all forms of knowledge.  As we began to learn more things had to become specialized.  The idea of appealing to Aristotle to know what is going on in the real world does seem quite silly to me. We have physicists for that now.

I understand what you're getting at.  This is my definitional problem I mentioned.  The way we define philosophy makes it a grand subject within which both valid and invalid thinking methods are included.  In practice, however, philosophy is a subset of logic rather than the other way around (which the opposite of the academic view of philosophy).  When people utilize logic, we say they are practicing philosophy, indeed, you just did that.  Scientists examining facts utilize logic, which is academically listed as a portion of the greater heading "philosophy".  The same can be said about the judges you mentioned.  The problems I was refrring to are when logic is practiced upon unverified premises, which is the most common usage of the term "philosophy".

Quote from: "AreEl"

Quote from: "Mistermischief"Ayn Rand...and I find it incredible that you didn't list her on your list.

Ditto for me, Ayn Rand. I also find it incredible that an atheist would not list Rand.

I find it incredible that Ayn Rand would be considered a philosopher at all. I'd like to see AreEl or Mistermischief's summations of the Ayn Rand philosophy, whatever it was called, objectivism I believe, and what "value" they see in it.

Nietzsche, but I don't think of him as a philosopher, more of a punk rocker of philosophy.  He's more of a precursor to sociology, anthropology, and psychology, about which he was brilliant.

The Buddha.

Quote from: "philosoraptor"I have never been a fan of ethical egoism, so consequently, I am also not a fan of Ayn Rand.  What a miserable place the world would be if everyone lived their lives the way she suggested.

My favorite philosopher is Sartre.

I admire Sartre too, but I don't agree with him on his critique of the conscience and subconscious or freewill.

Ayn Rand was brilliant in some ways and really rather dumb in others. But there's a huge difference between egoic people and egocentric people. She fought for the former.

Nietzsche. In sum: Nietzsche's challenge is twofold. He might conceivably come into his own by re-establishing some bond between what are now two completely divergent branches of modern thought, thus benefiting both. Meanwhile it is the inividual reader whom he addresses. And he does not wan to be read as an arsenal of arguments for or against something, nor even for a point of view. He challenges the reader not so much to agree or disagree as to grow.

Who are our other two Nietzsche fans?

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "AreEl"

Quote from: "Mistermischief"Ayn Rand...and I find it incredible that you didn't list her on your list.

Ditto for me, Ayn Rand. I also find it incredible that an atheist would not list Rand.

I find it incredible that Ayn Rand would be considered a philosopher at all. I'd like to see AreEl or Mistermischief's summations of the Ayn Rand philosophy, whatever it was called, objectivism I believe, and what "value" they see in it.

me too.  I tried to have a go at it, but I'm not digging it.

I nominate jac3510.

Nietzsche for me, though I'm not all that read up on philosophy.

Quote from: "wildfire_emissary"I nominate jac3510.

 

Though Lysander Spooner didn't really unite his philosophical views into a structural form of political economy, I think his philosophical commentaries put him in a category of his own when it comes to, colloquially known, libertarian philosophy. He is called an individualist anarchist despite having been an entrepreneur during his attempt to rival the US postal (anarchism is strictly socialism/communism) and his moral beliefs are founded in what he thought were natural rights. For a lack of a better term, Lysander Spooner is unambiguously a libertarian hero.

Lao Tzu(Laozi) and Chuang Tzu are not among my favorite philosophers, but are very compelling and peculiar. They go way back and Lao Tzu was said to have been born at the turn of the 6th century BC, pre-dating even Confucius in his philosophy. Lao Tzu is often depicted as a Daoist god and strongly opposes state intervention in the lives of people for nearly all circumstances. Chuang Tzu-Zhuangzi said the world "does not need governing; in fact it should not be governed," and, "Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone." Murray Rothbard called him "perhaps the world's first anarchist". Chuang Tzu probably would be considered an anarchist in the historical sense as opposed to the Rothbardian sense and leads me to believe he was millennia ahead of his time. He didn't advocate what real anarchists do such as workers own the means of production or things like that, but put forth very strong arguments against the use and abuse (use necessitates abuse) of government done by the Imperial Chinese government at the time. Well, in a way. He was kind of like an anarcho-primitivist. No less interesting contrast between this anti-state Taoism and the authoritarian legalism of Imperial China at the time.  

My favorite of the list is probably Aristotle because he never exploited Socrates's Socratic Method of manipulating people and guiding their train and range of thought through asking simple, yet leading questions. Seemed to have a little more intellectual honesty than Socrates or Plato. At least from what I can tell, Aristotle was less manipulative and sophistic. Aside from that, I tend to see quite a bit of insight in his views on political economy at least from someone who still lived during the days of infanticide.

Least favorite... Thomas Hobbes easily. Should be pretty obvious why.

Quote from: "AreEl"

Quote from: "Mistermischief"Ayn Rand...and I find it incredible that you didn't list her on your list.

Ditto for me, Ayn Rand. I also find it incredible that an atheist would not list Rand.

I probably wouldn't have listed her either...she just doesn't come to mind when I think of a short list of influential philosophers nor has she been a personal influence.

I think I'll go with other...Daniel Quinn; not a classic philosopher but as close as I get to a favorite.

Quote from: "Jac3510"Out of those listed, Aristotle. Over all, Thomas Aquinas. Of his interpreters, Etienne Gilson or Joseph Owens, although Henry Veatch is very high on my list as well.

Hey, Chris, you and I at least agree on something.  Mine is Aristotle, too.

I have a nightsaber named Nietzsche on WoW...

Though if I had to choose a favourite philosopher, it would have to be Joshua Norton I: Emperer of the United States, and Protector of Mexico!

On the other hand, if we can choose fictional people I would have to pick Itsuki Koizumi.

Best quotes:

"Relax! I don't believe in the existence of an Almighty God, or the Ultimate Creator that created humans. Many of my companions think the same way as well. Yet, there's one thing that bothers us."
Bothered by what?
"The things that we do. Are they as foolish as a clown doing a handstand by the edge of a cliff?" - Koizumi

"I could argue all day about the significance of facing east in religious rituals, but a clean table is a clean table." - Norton

"Being desirous of allaying the dissensions of party strife now existing within our realm, I do hereby dissolve and abolish the Democratic and Republican parties, and also do hereby decree the disfranchisement and imprisonment, for not more than 10, nor less than five, years, to all persons leading to any violation of this our imperial decree." - Emperor Norton I