when my father was alive he declared his atheism loud and clear, on his death bed he called for the priest. Was he just hedging his bets or was he really a believer in a god????
I don't understand...are you asking if you're an atheist, or are you asking if your father was one?
sorry for confusion, was just wondering if anyone knows someone who suddenly decided they needed a god before they died if they were an athiest, it's taken me 4 years to ask this question...
I don't know anybody personally who did.
I'm new to this-or, any forum and can;t figure out how to read replies, tho i've gotten this one, it's by fluke, anychance anyone could give me a quick tutorial, if i can get it that is...ta
Quote from: beatty on May 10, 2012, 03:33:22 AM
I'm new to this-or, any forum and can;t figure out how to read replies, tho i've gotten this one, it's by fluke, anychance anyone could give me a quick tutorial, if i can get it that is...ta
Hello and welcome to HAF,
beatty. First let me address this question. There are at least a couple of ways that you can check on any replies to this thread (thread being a term describing a conversation such as this one). When you log in, you can look on the top of the page, and click on either "Show new replies to your posts" or "Show unread posts since last visit." For now, "new replies to your posts" will give you a page which will only have this thread on it, assuming that somebody has replied to it since the last time you logged in. "Unread posts" will bring you to a page in which all threads that have a reply since your last visit (up to a certain time limit; not sure exactly what that limit is) will be displayed. You will of course be able to recognize your thread, and you can click on it to see the new replies. Also, the main forum page with all the various sections shown is another way to find this thread. Click on "Laid Back Lounge" and your thread will be shown there, whether it has had an answer or not. I hope this wasn't confusing; feel free to ask if you would like any clarifications.
The main topic discussion of this thread doesn't really belong in this section of the forum, which is not intended for serious topics. It will likely be moved to a more appropriate section, and you won't have access to it until you've made ten posts: I suggest you let it rest until you've made an introduction post, and have got to know us a wee bit better, and we, you.
* * *
QuoteNotes for new members from Tank:
The Rules. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php#2) section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.
Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
"Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5631.0)*
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Quote from: beatty on May 10, 2012, 03:33:22 AM
I'm new to this-or, any forum and can;t figure out how to read replies, tho i've gotten this one, it's by fluke, anychance anyone could give me a quick tutorial, if i can get it that is...ta
There are topics addressing the basics here - http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?board=39.0
If you have the thread open your browser refresh button will cause new posts to be displayed.
Why would a life long atheist call for a priest on their deathbed?
Fear of death, fear in general can lead to crappy decisions.
Dying people are often doped up, not a state conducive to rational decisions.
I don't think he would have gained access to some higher plane of knowing, you could get him to fill out a lotto form just in case though.
Most atheists think god's existence is very unlikely but if you're breathing your last it wouldn't hurt to attempt to please god. Which one though?
nope - never heard of it, personally.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 10, 2012, 05:21:31 AM
nope - never heard of it, personally.
I once heard of a woman who, after a lifetime of ignoring religion, was confronted on her death bed by a priest she hadn't asked for. She threw a book at him and died with a smile on her face. I've always hoped this wasn't an urban legend.
I think the OP's instance is one of those atheists in foxholes things -- you have to figure it happens sometimes if not as often as theists believe or wish. As to what the true motivation was in his dad's case, unfortunately only the dad could answer that question and he's dead. It's just going to have to be one of life's many mysteries.
I don't fully understand the answers to the poll. But I have never personally known any atheists who did that, but I have also never personally known any atheists who have died. I don't think anyone knows the answer to that question other than him though.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on May 10, 2012, 05:47:46 AM
I don't fully understand the answers to the poll.
I also don't understand what the dad's possible atheism has to do with the OP beliefs or lack thereof. My dad's deism certainly did not make me religious, and if anybody could have swayed me by personal example, it would have been him.
Hi, beatty. I want to give a detailed answer to your question, but I need time to think about it. I usually like to type out what I have to say on MS Word, then re-read and edit before posting. But welcome to the forum! A lot of the new posters here are young and only recently turned atheist, or are questioning. We're all figuring this out together :)
Hi beatty
Firstly, welcome to the forum, new members are always welcome. When you are a little bit more forum nettiquette you'll get to know that reading the rules is always a good idea as forums have little individual quirks. Ours is that we like to get to know new members a little before we get into deep discussions. In part this is to dissuade that group of people who just like to shit disturb on forums. So we have a 10 post requirement before a member gets let lose across the forum.
It's for this reason that I'm moving this thread to Life as an Atheist where you will be able to see it but not comment until your 11th post. Please don't take this to heart, it's just our way of working.
Regards
Chris
We can't hide from the possibility (though everyone here seems to have given it a good try) that he just lacked the courage of his convictions. More reason to conscienciously reinforce your own - either way - perhaps.
If he died having reassured himself then who are we to say he was wrong?
Who knows how we'll all react on our deathbeds, but given the time to accept the end is near, I like to think I'll be staring oblivion in the eye and saying "bite-me!". I'll just be wholly gutted to leave the party.
The closest I've come to emotionally facing my mortality was when I'd come a cropper on my bike at the top of a pretty steep and high drop-off. As I flew through the air staring at the trees, rocks and roots into which I was to imminently smash, it was thoughts of my (then) g/f and unborn child that dominated. I'm pleased with that!
epilogue: DS was already a week overdue at the time - he was born a week later. The proud Father/baby photos bare witness to the 14 stitches in my head, 9 on my nose, concussion, broken nose and broken wrist. I've never been forgiven for ruining the photos ;D
Quote from: Scissorlegs on May 10, 2012, 02:48:52 PM
We can't hide from the possibility (though everyone here seems to have given it a good try) that he just lacked the courage of his convictions. More reason to conscienciously reinforce your own - either way - perhaps.
If he died having reassured himself then who are we to say he was wrong?
I agree with this. I think that theists love the story of the deathbed conversion (which honestly makes me a little wary of the poster since this is the very first thing they want to talk about.) But regardless, when someone is facing immenent death and perhaps feeling desperate to believe that they will "live on" somehow, I certainly don't begrudge them whatever comfort they scrape together.
I don't begrudge them either, but I'm also suspicious of anyone who brings it up on their very first post. In my experience, it is usually a very thinly veiled "faux atheist" who likes to do this. My apologies to the OP if that's not the case, but that was my initial reaction.
Yeah, there's actually a rule about not being able to post everywhere on the forums until you've posted at least 10 times on the basic parts of the website, like the Laid Back Lounge. I don't know if that made sense. I've only recently gotten to 10 posts, myself. Just relax for now! (I still need to answer your original question, but I'm too busy to type a detailed response right now).
Either the dad was an atheist who didn't want to die alone,
Or, his brain function turned abnormal, bringing him back to the time before he deconverted (If he was atheist by deconversion only)
Or, he decided to find god in his last hours
Or, he already did find god and never (completely) lost it.
The poll questions are... Weird, so I've laid out some possibilities. Never having known the man, I don't think I can narrow it down from here.
Hi, Beatty - it's me again. Don't worry if you can't figure out how the forums work. I'm new here, and I can barely figure out how they work either. Everything here confuses me (not the content - just the website itself). The posts are kind of hard to read.
But now that I actually have a minute to answer your question I will say a few things...
1) I don't know that many people that have died. I can probably count on one hand how many people I knew personally that have died, and they all happened to be religious. So I don't actually have any "what a person said on their deathbed" stories.
2) People do change their opinions throughout various stages of their life. Thomas Jefferson was raised as Anglican by his family, and then later on in his life he decided to be Episcopalian. Then he became Unitarian. Then he became a Deist (someone who doesn't believe in Jesus's divinity, and doesn't believe in any one holy text or organized religion, but still believes in a God). The proof is in his writings. I can post sources later. (don't worry, I won't forget)! The word deist doesn't seem to have the same feeling or cultural meaning as the word agnostic, but I'm not an expert on these things. My religion teacher once told me that on his death bed, Jefferson decided to be Christian again - but I don't know if this is actually true. He might have thought it was true, but I don't think he actually had hard sources.
3) The truth is, people can fall anywhere on a spectrum!
Here is Richard Dawkin's belief scale (he describes himself as a 6)Quote
1. Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
2. De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
3. Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
4. Pure Agnostic: God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
5. Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical.
6. De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
7. Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
You can decide for yourself where you fall under! Don't take the term "weak" as something negative. Don't take the term "strong" as something necessarily positive. I think Dawkins just needed descriptive words for his scale, and the terms "weak and strong" aren't supposed to be poetic, here.
4) What a person decides to believe is a very personal journey. There's no point in keeping score or judging other people based on where they fall in the spectrum, or if they change their minds or don't change it at all. It's not like somebody "wins" if they stick to one belief the longest or whatever.
5) Why would your father's belief or lack thereof determine what you yourself believe? My mother is a strong Catholic, but I'm not. My sister is extremely Protestant, but I'm definitely not. I remained agnostic for a long time, and now I'm an atheist. I used to be unsure, but now I'm quite sure. I'm definitely not going to change my mind this time, because after thinking long and hard about it...there are certain things in the Bible and other religious texts that I simply don't agree with, and I'm not open for debate about those things. That's never gonna change for me, personally. And the Bible isn't gonna change either, so that's that. Don't feel bad if you can't decide exactly what you believe right now. Many, many people remain agnostic because that's what makes the most sense to them. You don't have to be the poster child for your beliefs, whatever they may be.
6) You asked us in the thread title if you were really an atheist. Only you can answer that question. The rest of us don't know you, or your father well enough to answer it! If it helps you at all, I will say that when I became an atheist...even I had to learn how to get over certain myths about what an atheist was. I was confused about whether or not I counted as one, because I wasn't even sure what it meant. I believed the stereotypes about atheists that just weren't true. I didn't want to call myself one because I didn't want people to think certain things about me that weren't true. I wasn't ready. I will make another post later on about how I got over the stereotypes. Mostly, I just had to keep questioning and making an effort to un-learn bad habits that I learned while I was religious. I hope that helps!
Christopher Hitchens made the comment that if he made any sudden deathbed conversions in his last days alive, it would only be because his mind was no longer functioning properly. Depending on what someone's dying of, that can very well be possible in many cases. It happened with one of my grandmothers. When she died, she insisted quite all of a sudden that it was VERY important for her to believe in unseen beings - angels, ghosts, dead loved ones, etc. She claimed she now had 'proof' of their existence, because they were all around her. In the end, cancer took her, but I suspect it had spread further than we thought, including perhaps into her brain or optic nerves.
Just saying, there's no way of knowing why a lifelong atheist would suddenly ask for a priest. Others have mentioned the possibility of hedging one's bets, fear, uncertainty, etc. Some may call for a priest because someone secretly urged them to, and they're trying to make their loved ones happy. Some people may even wish to 'get back to God' solely for the reason of there being a possible chance of seeing their family again, in an afterlife. So many reasons are all possible.
I don't question the mind of someone about to die. I couldn't possibly put myself in their shoes.
It's most likely because your dad was raised to be Christian. When you've been raised that way your whole life, you hold those beliefs in higher esteem than other beliefs. If someone is raised as Jewish or Muslim, and they became an atheist when they were older, they won't be asking for a Christian priest on their deathbed, obviously :p Maybe they'll ask for a Rabbi or an Imam.
Beatty, you're not Egor, are you?
I think that there's vanishingly little chance of that. ;)
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
I suspected something fishy, but didn't want to say anything since I thought it's against the rules to accuse people of trolling. Perhaps that's another forum.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
Have to admit it, I was wondering that too.
I haven't known any atheists very well that died and haven't heard any stories of that happening to anyone my friends know.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
I'm 66.6% sure one of you are Egor, just trying to narrow it down... >.<
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 11, 2012, 02:43:53 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
I'm 66.6% sure one of you are Egor, just trying to narrow it down... >.<
I'm so hoping it isn't me, I was joking about a sex change operation!
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 11, 2012, 02:55:47 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 11, 2012, 02:43:53 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
I'm 66.6% sure one of you are Egor, just trying to narrow it down... >.<
I'm so hoping it isn't me, I was joking about a sex change operation!
Has he really become that effective? Have we gotten to the point where we accuse each other of being Egor? Granted I'm certain some of you are sleeper accounts. Slowly accumulating legitimate posts to one day wake up and start posting useless drivel.
Edit: Fixed McQ, thanks for pointing that out.
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on May 11, 2012, 03:26:20 AMSlowly accumulating legitimate posts to one day wake up and start posting useless dribble.
I resent that, it infers we are disingenuous.
I for one started posting useless dribble and have continued to consistently do so.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 11, 2012, 02:43:53 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
I hope so (had to ask ;) ). It's just what Egor himself said about signing into forums as if he was an atheist ::)
I'm 66.6% sure one of you are Egor, just trying to narrow it down... >.<
If you want to be fallaciously certain, I can tell you that it isn't me and you'll be 100% sure that it's BooksCatsEtc ;)
I've reached an epiphany. I'm going to assume that any trollish person posting is Egor. :-\
Quote from: xSilverPhinx link=topic=9991.msg170561#msg170561If you want to be fallaciously certain, I can tell you that it isn't me and you'll be 100% sure that it's BooksCatsEtc ;)
Damn! Now I have to learn how to cross my legs with inconvenient plumbing.
QuoteI've reached an epiphany. I'm going to assume that any trollish person posting is Egor. :-\
Or
an Egor.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 11, 2012, 04:41:33 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx link=topic=9991.msg170561#msg170561 If you want to be fallaciously certain, I can tell you that it isn't me and you'll be 100% sure that it's BooksCatsEtc ;)/quote]
Damn! Now I have to learn how to cross my legs with inconvenient plumbing.
QuoteI've reached an epiphany. I'm going to assume that any trollish person posting is Egor. :-\
Or an Egor.
Yes, more like. My detection abilities have become rather unrefined these days, I can't even tell a Poe from a non-Poe anymore. ::)
The experienced investigator knows when his quarry fears imminent exposure.
The subject starts making silly mistakes, stuffing up quote tags for instance.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 11, 2012, 05:34:16 AM
The experienced investigator knows when his quarry fears imminent exposure.
The subject starts making silly mistakes, stuffing up quote tags for instance.
:P
Back on topic please folks.
Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2012, 07:28:18 AM
Back on topic please folks.
I'm not really sure what the topic is.
Was the OP's father an atheist? Only the OP's father knew that and he's dead so he can no longer be asked.
Is the OP an atheist? Only the OP knows that and it seems a rather simple question for him to answer -- believes in gods, then no; doesn't believe in gods, then yes.
Are there death-bed conversions from atheism to theism/deism? Possibly, but none of us have had any experience of it second-hand (and obviously not first-hand).
Assuming the OP is not a drive-by poster, I'd really like to have those poll choices explained because I don't know what in the world they're supposed to mean.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 11, 2012, 03:49:42 PM
Was the OP's father an atheist? Only the OP's father knew that and he's dead so he can no longer be asked.
Exactly, and there is no point in guessing.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 11, 2012, 03:49:42 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 11, 2012, 07:28:18 AM
Back on topic please folks.
Assuming the OP is not a drive-by poster, I'd really like to have those poll choices explained because I don't know what in the world they're supposed to mean.
I'm thinking OP is in fact a drive-by-poster. He hasn't logged in since the day he posted this. I imagine if this question was burning at him for three years, and he finally got the courage to ask it, he would have checked in on this thread by now and clarified his poll answers.
Does that mean we can go back to posting dribble? Or are we required to keep sussing out whether or not the OP's father was an atheist? I say we hold a seance and ask him. Oh Ghost of OP's Father....hear me from beyond the veil of the grave (I'm talking in a spooky voice now, hold hands if you're frightened.) Ghost of OP's Father (henceforth to be known as GOPF, because I'm tired of typing that phrase) please reveal to us your secrets! Knock once for yes if you were an atheist! Knock twice for no, if you were not an atheist. Do not knock at all if it turns out that this poster has no intention of ever returning to the forum. We await your answer with bated breath, oh GOPF.
Quote from: Ali on May 11, 2012, 09:46:21 PM
Does that mean we can go back to posting dribble? Or are we required to keep sussing out whether or not the OP's father was an atheist? I say we hold a seance and ask him. Oh Ghost of OP's Father....hear me from beyond the veil of the grave (I'm talking in a spooky voice now, hold hands if you're frightened.) Ghost of OP's Father (henceforth to be known as GOPF, because I'm tired of typing that phrase) please reveal to us your secrets! Knock once for yes if you were an atheist! Knock twice for no, if you were not an atheist. Do not knock at all if it turns out that this poster has no intention of ever returning to the forum. We await your answer with bated breath, oh GOPF.
I think you answered your own question. :D
If he was an atheist, it's not like he'd have a soul that would turn him into a ghost we could consult with.
Yeah, I may be judging prematurely, but it looks like this poster is a troll, just stopping by quick enough to post a question we can't answer and not logging in again to answer our posts. ???
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 10:11:08 PM
Yeah, I may be judging prematurely, but it looks like this poster is a troll, just stopping by quick enough to post a question we can't answer and not logging in again to answer our posts. ???
Eh, it's been less than 48 hours. I think we have to remember that not everyone's as addicted to HAF as they OUGHT to be. Like us. :D
Quote from: Amicale on May 11, 2012, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 10:11:08 PM
Yeah, I may be judging prematurely, but it looks like this poster is a troll, just stopping by quick enough to post a question we can't answer and not logging in again to answer our posts. ???
Eh, it's been less than 48 hours. I think we have to remember that not everyone's as addicted to HAF as they OUGHT to be. Like us. :D
Right. :-\ That's reality hiting me smack in the face.
Okay, I'll wait and see.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 11:52:43 PM
Quote from: Amicale on May 11, 2012, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2012, 10:11:08 PM
Yeah, I may be judging prematurely, but it looks like this poster is a troll, just stopping by quick enough to post a question we can't answer and not logging in again to answer our posts. ???
Eh, it's been less than 48 hours. I think we have to remember that not everyone's as addicted to HAF as they OUGHT to be. Like us. :D
A more obvious troll would be hard to find.
Right. :-\ That's reality hiting me smack in the face.
Okay, I'll wait and see.
Quote from: En_Route on May 12, 2012, 12:04:30 AMA more obvious troll would be hard to find.
We've had people who've come through here that were rather obviously just looking to get a reaction; much more so than
beatty. On the basis of 3 relatively innocuous posts, no matter what people's spidey senses may be telling them, it's better to reserve judgement, in my opinion. I'd also like to point out that
beatty is still a member of this site, and so is under the protection of the rules.
And, it's "Drivel", not "Dribble".
Quote from: McQ on May 12, 2012, 01:29:29 AM
And, it's "Drivel", not "Dribble".
Nazi. :D And yes it is, unfortunately spell check doesn't include definition checks. I went back and fixed it in my post though.
Quote from: McQ on May 12, 2012, 01:29:29 AM
And, it's "Drivel", not "Dribble".
I think someone's language can "dribble" from them. I kinda like the imagery.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 12, 2012, 01:45:31 AM
Quote from: McQ on May 12, 2012, 01:29:29 AM
And, it's "Drivel", not "Dribble".
I think someone's language can "dribble" from them. I kinda like the imagery.
I was about to say -- I had a really interesting word picture going on, esp. when I threw the seance in as well.
But to get backish on topic . . . I wrote about the possibility of atheists making death-bed conversions to theism/deism, putting the deists in there because I didn't want to be insensitive and leave any believer types out, but after thinking about there doesn't seem to be any benefit in a death-bed conversion to deism.
If I'm understanding it right, a deist believes some supernatural entity created the natural world but takes no personal interest in it, does not get involved in anyone's life and offers no perks like personal immortality. So a death-bed conversion to deism would make no sense unless you wanted one last, admittedly obscure, chance to wind up theists.
What's this thread doing in the " Life As An Atheist" area anyway.
Death for the desperate or deluded seems to belong in religion. ;)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 12, 2012, 01:45:31 AM
Quote from: McQ on May 12, 2012, 01:29:29 AM
And, it's "Drivel", not "Dribble".
I think someone's language can "dribble" from them. I kinda like the imagery.
Heh
The imagery I got while reading that was of someone's lower lip dribbling a ball due to nervous spasmodic movements induced by this thread. My mind's weird like that ::)
Aw, I hope you all didn't scare beatty off :( He said he was new to online forums in general, and literally seemed to have a hard time typing. I remember when I was new to the web, I started weird threads and lots of polls mostly out of noobish enthusiasm. And if someone's at a point in their life where they're questioning their beliefs, it can freak them out. Maybe Beatty just really needed someone to talk to. I for one don't log into HAF that often because I keep forgetting my username and password :p And then when I do log back in, I wonder where all the threads I had been reading went. If the threads are extra long and filled with private jokes, new posters might not even bother reading through all of it. (By the way, I still need to post those links I promised)!
Quote from: Recusant on May 12, 2012, 12:35:05 AM
Quote from: En_Route on May 12, 2012, 12:04:30 AMA more obvious troll would be hard to find.
We've had people who've come through here that were rather obviously just looking to get a reaction; much more so than beatty. On the basis of 3 relatively innocuous posts, no matter what people's spidey senses may be telling them, it's better to reserve judgement, in my opinion. I'd also like to point out that beatty is still a member of this site, and so is under the protection of the rules.
These are the rules which restrict the first 10 posts to the Getting to Know You section?
Just look at the poll, it's an obvious exercise in urine extraction, with its restatement of the first two options with exclamation marks and the fifth option a smartarse non-sequitur plus the question itself is both ludicrous (how is anyone supposed to be able to form any kind of judgement in the absence of any background information) and is clearly designed to take a rise out of atheists by replaying the the old deathbed conversion shtick.
Quote from: En_Route on May 12, 2012, 11:24:18 AMThese are the rules which restrict the first 10 posts to the Getting to Know You section?
No, I was referring to the generalized rule exemplified by the words "remember the importance of civility."
Having spent a fair amount of time in the UK, I certainly understand the idiom referred to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss). While the evidence you cite seems to support your view, I was offering you and the rest of the members a reminder that
beatty has not been banned, and should be given the same civil treatment afforded to any other member here, which includes the benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: En_Route on May 12, 2012, 11:24:18 AM
These are the rules which restrict the first 10 posts to the Getting to Know You section?
Just look at the poll, it's an obvious exercise in urine extraction, with its restatement of the first two options with exclamation marks and the fifth option a smartarse non-sequitur plus the question itself is both ludicrous (how is anyone supposed to be able to form any kind of judgement in the absence of any background information) and is clearly designed to take a rise out of atheists by replaying the the old deathbed conversion shtick.
If it's designed to piss us off it hasn't been very successful.
People have calmly gone over why it may theoretically happen, mentioned they've never encountered it.
Christians fear and they think we must when our end is upon us, the answer is a bemused "no" what am I to fear and whose god is going to be of help anyway? There's many available but I don't trust them.
Earlier on I didn't mean to derail, the engine had run out of steam a few of the passengers and I were just talking amongst our selves, making our own arrangements. Is there a chance this train will fire up again? :)
Quote from: Recusant on May 12, 2012, 05:15:08 PM
Quote from: En_Route on May 12, 2012, 11:24:18 AMThese are the rules which restrict the first 10 posts to the Getting to Know You section?
No, I was referring to the generalized rule exemplified by the words "remember the importance of civility."
Having spent a fair amount of time in the UK, I certainly understand the idiom referred to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss). While the evidence you cite seems to support your view, I was offering you and the rest of the members a reminder that beatty has not been banned, and should be given the same civil treatment afforded to any other member here, which includes the benefit of the doubt.
The point was making in my usual tortuously ironic fashion was that as I understood it, the first ten posts have to be restricted to the GTKY area as a kind of probation in order to sift out the more blatant exponents of trollery. Perhaps if this rule was consistently enforced there would be no need to have enjoined civility in this instance. I suggest it is not so much as the benefit of the doubt but the benefit of utter credulity that is needed here.
QuoteJust look at the poll, it's an obvious exercise in urine extraction, with its restatement of the first two options with exclamation marks and the fifth option a smartarse non-sequitur plus the question itself is both ludicrous (how is anyone supposed to be able to form any kind of judgement in the absence of any background information) and is clearly designed to take a rise out of atheists by replaying the the old deathbed conversion shtick.
I don't think it's obviously or clearly anything. I would've thought the posters here would be more inclined to wait for harder evidence, instead of jumping the gun. Even in nyc, there are some families that never had computers in the household and some people have never even touched a computer. Then there are families where they've always had computers, but no one is allowed to be on the internet, or they simply never had an internet connection and just use word processing.
When I was new to message boards, my writing style was all exclamation points - I was afraid people wouldn't see my post or respond, and I was just over eager. I also started random polls that weren't necessary just *because* there was a poll function and I wanted to use the hell out of it, cuz I thought it was cool it even existed. I've also joined websites that I couldn't find later on, because I couldn't remember the name and couldn't figure out how to use the bookmarks, and couldn't remember the phrase I googled which led me to the website in the first place.
Now that I've actually had years of experience with message boards and I've actually worked in my school's IT department and took basic computer programming classes - it still took me a while to adjust to HAF. The tiny reply font in the blue boxes, and the replies within the replies are sometimes indistinguishable to my eyes.
As for the poll, Beatty could've been joking and serious at the same time. It's no different than if you were talking to someone in person offline, and they were all "OMG hi!! Should I get cheese fries?? I want them...but I don't knowww!" It doesn't mean we should pre-emptively take the piss out of someone that just needs someone to talk to, when we don't know what their situation it -___- Even on yahoo answers, I see a lot of people post questions like "Help!! Idk what to do??? How do I know if [insert problem here]!!" Usually, people are just scared and are eager for replies.
Quote from: applesauce on May 12, 2012, 06:53:50 PM
QuoteJust look at the poll, it's an obvious exercise in urine extraction, with its restatement of the first two options with exclamation marks and the fifth option a smartarse non-sequitur plus the question itself is both ludicrous (how is anyone supposed to be able to form any kind of judgement in the absence of any background information) and is clearly designed to take a rise out of atheists by replaying the the old deathbed conversion shtick.
I don't think it's obviously or clearly anything. I would've thought the posters here would be more inclined to wait for harder evidence, instead of jumping the gun. Even in nyc, there are some families that never had computers in the household and some people have never even touched a computer. Then there are families where they've always had computers, but no one is allowed to be on the internet, or they simply never had an internet connection and just use word processing.
When I was new to message boards, my writing style was all exclamation points - I was afraid people wouldn't see my post or respond, and I was just over eager. I also started random polls that weren't necessary just *because* there was a poll function and I wanted to use the hell out of it, cuz I thought it was cool it even existed. I've also joined websites that I couldn't find later on, because I couldn't remember the name and couldn't figure out how to use the bookmarks, and couldn't remember the phrase I googled which led me to the website in the first place.
Now that I've actually had years of experience with message boards and I've actually worked in my school's IT department and took basic computer programming classes - it still took me a while to adjust to HAF. The tiny reply font in the blue boxes, and the replies within the replies are sometimes indistinguishable to my eyes.
As for the poll, Beatty could've been joking and serious at the same time. It's no different than if you were talking to someone in person offline, and they were all "OMG hi!! Should I get cheese fries?? I want them...but I don't knowww!" It doesn't mean we should pre-emptively take the piss out of someone that just needs someone to talk to, when we don't know what their situation it -___- Even on yahoo answers, I see a lot of people post questions like "Help!! Idk what to do??? How do I know if [insert problem here]!!" Usually, people are just scared and are eager for replies.
:) You seem like a very compassionate, understanding kind of person, and I agree that it's best to not jump down a new member's throat, or to make quick assumptions. What can I say... sometimes we skeptics are too damned skeptical for our own good, really. And sometimes that makes us less welcoming than we ought to be. I'm not speaking for anyone else here, just me.
Thanks for the reminder.
Beatty, if you're still around, I'd appreciate clarification of your poll, but I'd be happy to just chat about the issue, too. I'm truly sorry you lost your dad.
Quote from: applesauce on May 12, 2012, 06:53:50 PM
When I was new to message boards, my writing style was all exclamation points - I was afraid people wouldn't see my post or respond, and I was just over eager. I also started random polls that weren't necessary just *because* there was a poll function and I wanted to use the hell out of it, cuz I thought it was cool it even existed. I've also joined websites that I couldn't find later on, because I couldn't remember the name and couldn't figure out how to use the bookmarks, and couldn't remember the phrase I googled which led me to the website in the first place.
All of these are good points and well worth keeping in mind generally when dealing with new members -- I can remember having the same problems when I was new to the online world. Your sympathy does you credit tho I frankly feel it's wasted on the OP, for reasons I won't get into in the interests of civility.
Quote from: Amicale on May 12, 2012, 07:07:05 PM
Beatty, if you're still around, I'd appreciate clarification of your poll, but I'd be happy to just chat about the issue, too. I'm truly sorry you lost your dad.
That goes for me too.
Quote from: applesauce on May 12, 2012, 06:53:50 PM
QuoteJust look at the poll, it's an obvious exercise in urine extraction, with its restatement of the first two options with exclamation marks and the fifth option a smartarse non-sequitur plus the question itself is both ludicrous (how is anyone supposed to be able to form any kind of judgement in the absence of any background information) and is clearly designed to take a rise out of atheists by replaying the the old deathbed conversion shtick.
I don't think it's obviously or clearly anything. I would've thought the posters here would be more inclined to wait for harder evidence, instead of jumping the gun. Even in nyc, there are some families that never had computers in the household and some people have never even touched a computer. Then there are families where they've always had computers, but no one is allowed to be on the internet, or they simply never had an internet connection and just use word processing.
When I was new to message boards, my writing style was all exclamation points - I was afraid people wouldn't see my post or respond, and I was just over eager. I also started random polls that weren't necessary just *because* there was a poll function and I wanted to use the hell out of it, cuz I thought it was cool it even existed. I've also joined websites that I couldn't find later on, because I couldn't remember the name and couldn't figure out how to use the bookmarks, and couldn't remember the phrase I googled which led me to the website in the first place.
Now that I've actually had years of experience with message boards and I've actually worked in my school's IT department and took basic computer programming classes - it still took me a while to adjust to HAF. The tiny reply font in the blue boxes, and the replies within the replies are sometimes indistinguishable to my eyes.
As for the poll, Beatty could've been joking and serious at the same time. It's no different than if you were talking to someone in person offline, and they were all "OMG hi!! Should I get cheese fries?? I want them...but I don't knowww!" It doesn't mean we should pre-emptively take the piss out of someone that just needs someone to talk to, when we don't know what their situation it -___- Even on yahoo answers, I see a lot of people post questions like "Help!! Idk what to do??? How do I know if [insert problem here]!!" Usually, people are just scared and are eager for replies.
I admire your generosity of spirit if not your acuity.