The answer to this question was obvious when I was a Christian: Love Christ with all my heart and lean on his understanding. All the while proselytizing in his name. And I did this with unfettered passion. But when I jettisoned my Christian belief I found myself soul searching for a meaning. After some time, I decided my purpose can be wrapped up in a pithy maxim: learn to give and recieve love. Never try to draw attention to myself. Don altruism at every turn sans falling into the trap of being a people pleaser. By no means am I an advanced master. I fall short again and again. But it is my constant aim.
Your thoughts?
I don't really have an aim or want one. I just live life as I flow with it taking whatever course feels most natural for me.
My life's goal is to enjoy it while it lasts.
Nihilism :
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism)
There ain't nuthin.... but I'm cool with that.
However, this doesn't mean you can't give meaning to your own life. I personally dedicate mine to the happiness of myself, my wife, my children and making sure my aggregate journey to oblivion is as non-shitty as possible.
I have no pretence to altruism, no delusions of worth outside of my own sphere of influence, no grand aspirations for this soon-to-be-dead planet. Yet I am significant because I exist to comprehend the universe in all its arbitrary beauty.
"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." - Ayn Rand.
Well, you did ask....!
I propose omnicide as an all-round two-thumbs-up good idea. For the following reasons:
No more suffering, one.
Two, it'll be a more cheerful way to go extinct than tapering out slowly due to changes in our environment, which is bound to happen eventually.
And three, even if a small minority of people haven't understood all the benefits, they're not going to mind once they're dead.
I think it must be scary for some people to leave religion.
Religion provides them with guidance of purpose and morals.
As an atheist, you are own your own to work out for yourself, how to behave, how to live your life. There is no longer a safety net, no longer a "parent" figure to guide you. I can see how this can be scary. Some people need and take comfort in rules.
I guess the downside of being an atheist is that a person can become lost, they can struggle with the meaning of their life. If you need meaning then introspectively analise yourself, think about what is important to you, what you enjoy, think about what you want to achieve. I would certainly recommend revisiting your meaning/purpose each year because as we grow up, these things tend to change, early on we are more interested in ourselves, at later stages more interested in our loved ones and beyond that our society becomes more important.
like G85 and Crow I just try and enjoy life while it lasts, try not to hurt anyone too bad and not take it all too seriously. The philosophy I come closest to would be epicurianism. I'm here because my parents wanted children, and a purpose isn't anything I feel any need for (thankfully).
I just try to leave things better than I found them. Doesn't always work, but it's interesting and fun to try.
Quote from: Stevilearly on we are more interested in ourselves, at later stages more interested in our loved ones and beyond that our society becomes more important.
Seconded. We get more socially reclusive as we get older. Unhindered by constant, baffling interaction with other individuals, we're able to crystallise our abstract ideas about humanity into irrefutable, concrete facts. So "society" ceases to be an imaginary idea, non-existent but functional in language because of it's simplicity - it becomes something much more literal.
I go back and forth on that depending on my warped circadian rhythm. I care about society a lot more when I'm nocturnal; close friends and myself when I'm out and about in the day.
Quote from: Ali on February 29, 2012, 07:23:28 PM
I just try to leave things better than I found them. Doesn't always work, but it's interesting and fun to try.
Basically, this. My goal (even if I don't always succeed at it) is to leave things and as many people as possible better off than before. Basically, just trying to best to care about others, support them however I can, do the best I can every day. I know I make tons of mistakes, but when all's said and done at the end of my life, my goal is to have helped way more than I hurt. At least the good news is, because I admit as a human I mess up plenty in my life, at least I learn how to think better, love better, and help better every single day.
Quote from: Ali on February 29, 2012, 07:23:28 PM
I just try to leave things better than I found them. Doesn't always work, but it's interesting and fun to try.
Yeah, pretty much this. Information regarding any higher purpose...I can sense it, I feel it, but I haven't the foggiest idea what it might be.
Biological perspective aside, I don't think "Why are we here?" is even a valid question. As for the point of living... Well, for me, it's whatever I'm currently doing and it is updated in real time.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 01, 2012, 01:05:03 AM
Biological perspective aside, I don't think "Why are we here?" is even a valid question. As for the point of living... Well, for me, it's whatever I'm currently doing and it is updated in real time.
That's very carpe diem of you. ;)
Not really. Just means that I do not define a meaning to my life beyond current activity.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 01, 2012, 01:05:03 AM
Biological perspective aside, I don't think "Why are we here?" is even a valid question. As for the point of living... Well, for me, it's whatever I'm currently doing and it is updated in real time.
I understand your perspective Asmo. And, to be sure, I sincerely appreciate it. But where "Why are you here" may not be a valid question for you (and that may be what you meant to specify) may very well be valid for others. Personally, as stated in my first post, I do have a purpose and a specific reason for being here. Not that I think some celestial being implanted it in me. This is a self imposed purpose or reason for being. So I do not understand why it would be considered invalid. The fact that I derived the purpose makes it valid for me. Does it not?
Now lets drink. Cheers!
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 01, 2012, 01:25:41 AM
So I do not understand why it would be considered invalid.
Because we are a direct result of a biological process. We are here because our parents had unprotected sex. Beyond that, I see no reason for a "why", nor validation for it.
It's pretty much like asking "Why is a random number random?"
We are only sentient matter for a short while.
To embrace your awareness sounds cool, at least some of the time.
Just for fun, I asked these questions of family members this evening. Their replies made me smile.
My mom: "to get as much sleep as possible. Morning comes early! Oh, and to eat good food, listen to good music, and love my friends and my family."
My grandma (pointing to my grandfather): "Why am I here? To bug the hell out of him!"
My grandfather (pointing to my grandma): "And I'm apparently here to put up with HER incessant chatter!"
My aunt: "I'm here to drink REALLY good wine."
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 01, 2012, 01:33:12 AM
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 01, 2012, 01:25:41 AM
So I do not understand why it would be considered invalid.
Because we are a direct result of a biological process. We are here because our parents had unprotected sex. Beyond that, I see no reason for a "why", nor validation for it.
It's pretty much like asking "Why is a random number random?"
So if I understand what you are saying, it is your impression that subsequent to a biological process one cannot derive a purpose or reason on their own, in their own mind for why they may be here?
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 01, 2012, 01:56:22 AM
So if I understand what you are saying, it is your impression that subsequent to a biological process one cannot derive a purpose or reason on their own, in their own mind for why they may be here?
Of course they can.
But then, the question turns from "Why are we here?" to "Why do I continue my existence?" There is a big difference.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 01, 2012, 02:09:14 AM
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 01, 2012, 01:56:22 AM
So if I understand what you are saying, it is your impression that subsequent to a biological process one cannot derive a purpose or reason on their own, in their own mind for why they may be here?
Of course they can.
But then, the question turns from "Why are we here?" to "Why do I continue my existence?" There is a big difference.
Hmm. So maybe the question isn't "why are we are", but "what makes life worth living"?
Quote from: Amicale on February 29, 2012, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: Ali on February 29, 2012, 07:23:28 PM
I just try to leave things better than I found them. Doesn't always work, but it's interesting and fun to try.
Basically, this. My goal (even if I don't always succeed at it) is to leave things and as many people as possible better off than before. Basically, just trying to best to care about others, support them however I can, do the best I can every day. I know I make tons of mistakes, but when all's said and done at the end of my life, my goal is to have helped way more than I hurt. At least the good news is, because I admit as a human I mess up plenty in my life, at least I learn how to think better, love better, and help better every single day.
Interesting. My own personal take is not to try and make anything better or worse as it usually interferes in something that will eventually correct itself.
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 02:16:26 AM
Hmm. So maybe the question isn't "why are we are", but "what makes life worth living"?
Indeed. Those are two very different questions.
Quote from: Crow on March 01, 2012, 02:17:57 AM
Quote from: Amicale on February 29, 2012, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: Ali on February 29, 2012, 07:23:28 PM
I just try to leave things better than I found them. Doesn't always work, but it's interesting and fun to try.
Basically, this. My goal (even if I don't always succeed at it) is to leave things and as many people as possible better off than before. Basically, just trying to best to care about others, support them however I can, do the best I can every day. I know I make tons of mistakes, but when all's said and done at the end of my life, my goal is to have helped way more than I hurt. At least the good news is, because I admit as a human I mess up plenty in my life, at least I learn how to think better, love better, and help better every single day.
Interesting. My own personal take is not to try and make anything better or worse as it usually interferes in something that will eventually correct itself.
Hmm... interesting. So if someone's sad, you don't try to cheer them up? If someone hurts themselves, you don't try to get them help/patch them up? :) Those are examples of trying to make something better than it is. Sometimes things do correct themselves, but generally when it comes to humans, we live in community for a reason: we can help one another, and be helped.
I can see how what I said could be taken as 'improve someone', but I meant it in the sense of mostly being helpful or of use where possible.
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 02:32:53 AM
Hmm... interesting. So if someone's sad, you don't try to cheer them up? If someone hurts themselves, you don't try to get them help/patch them up? :) Those are examples of trying to make something better than it is. Sometimes things do correct themselves, but generally when it comes to humans, we live in community for a reason: we can help one another, and be helped.
I can see how what I said could be taken as 'improve someone', but I meant it in the sense of mostly being helpful or of use where possible.
I usually see those situations as allowing the individual that is hurt/upset to get what they need (if they want it) within reason and they set what they need. The only time I would interfere (I actively stop what an individual is doing) in these situations would be to stop something that could potential go bad, or requires immediate attention and I know what to do in the situation. But I never think I will try and make a situation better or worse.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 01, 2012, 02:09:14 AM
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 01, 2012, 01:56:22 AM
So if I understand what you are saying, it is your impression that subsequent to a biological process one cannot derive a purpose or reason on their own, in their own mind for why they may be here?
Of course they can.
But then, the question turns from "Why are we here?" to "Why do I continue my existence?" There is a big difference.
Ahhh. You and I see things differently. Those two questoioin, in my mind, are asking exactly the same thing and I personally derive the same answer for each. No big deal. Potato, potawto. Really a symantical issue. I mean we could really start splitting hairs here and turn this into a stand off. But stand offs bore me.
I always enjoy reading everyone's perspecitves on this question. The answers invaribly are far and wide.
Now where is that beer barkeep?
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
Some people do it for drinking, others for sex, others still for money and/or power... Or any combination thereof.
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
Some people just can't help themselves.... fools!
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
Some of us do it so we can break away from the hysteria that was our religious upbringing.
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
:D When it comes right down to it, kittycats, toys (ie, electronic gadgets, but still), and books still rank high up there for being reasons I enjoy life!
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
I blame mirrors, awful things.
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
Just for fun, I asked these questions of family members this evening. Their replies made me smile.
My mom: "to get as much sleep as possible. Morning comes early! Oh, and to eat good food, listen to good music, and love my friends and my family."
My grandma (pointing to my grandfather): "Why am I here? To bug the hell out of him!"
My grandfather (pointing to my grandma): "And I'm apparently here to put up with HER incessant chatter!"
My aunt: "I'm here to drink REALLY good wine."
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Those are great Amicale! Sounds like you have a family with a sense of humor. Reunions must be a kick in the pants.
Quote from: Truthseeker on March 02, 2012, 01:17:46 AM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
Just for fun, I asked these questions of family members this evening. Their replies made me smile.
My mom: "to get as much sleep as possible. Morning comes early! Oh, and to eat good food, listen to good music, and love my friends and my family."
My grandma (pointing to my grandfather): "Why am I here? To bug the hell out of him!"
My grandfather (pointing to my grandma): "And I'm apparently here to put up with HER incessant chatter!"
My aunt: "I'm here to drink REALLY good wine."
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Those are great Amicale! Sounds like you have a family with a sense of humor. Reunions must be a kick in the pants.
Ha, thanks, they made me laugh. :D Yeah, family get togethers are always loud, crazy, often funny, and once or twice when a good natured argument's burst forth, a literal kick in the pants has indeed occurred. ;)
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 02, 2012, 12:11:34 AM
Quote from: Tank on March 01, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
Why do we ever bother to grow up!
I blame mirrors, awful things.
I saw some chap on the TV complaining about the fact that a 25 year old looked in the mirror but a 70 year old looked back :(
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 29, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
My life's goal is to enjoy it while it lasts.
This. ^
Make some money. Have some sex. Not die in an embarrassing manner. That's all. :)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 02, 2012, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 29, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
My life's goal is to enjoy it while it lasts.
This. ^
Make some money. Have some sex. Not die in an embarrassing manner. That's all. :)
Surely money can't be your end goal, can it?
Money is a means to an end.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 02, 2012, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 29, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
My life's goal is to enjoy it while it lasts.
This. ^
Make some money. Have some sex. Not die in an embarrassing manner. That's all. :)
Do your job. Get paid. Get laid. ;D
Quote from: Guardian85 on March 02, 2012, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 02, 2012, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: Guardian85 on February 29, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
My life's goal is to enjoy it while it lasts.
This. ^
Make some money. Have some sex. Not die in an embarrassing manner. That's all. :)
Do your job. Get paid. Get laid. ;D
Surely your life means more than that Gaurdian. I do not see beer mentioned. What about beer? For god sake man. Libations.
Of course good food and drink are important, too.
The truth is I have no idea why I'm here. And that's kinda cool. Because considering how huge this universe is, how tiny and insignificant we are, and how many other sperm were competing with me right at that moment when I happened to make it, I shouldn't be here. Can I really have gotten that lucky? If so, damn!
If not, then why? I have no idea. All I do know is that all those people who say they know are full of shit, and I feel good knowing that I didn't buy into it.
Oh, and to drink.
Quote from: Amicale on March 01, 2012, 01:53:45 AM
My daughter (who probably didn't understand the question, I asked her over the phone, lol): "I love kitty cats and my toys and BOOKS!"
:D
She has a good sense of priorities!
Quote from: Firebird on March 02, 2012, 11:19:29 PM
The truth is I have no idea why I'm here. And that's kinda cool. Because considering how huge this universe is, how tiny and insignificant we are, and how many other sperm were competing with me right at that moment when I happened to make it, I shouldn't be here. Can I really have gotten that lucky? If so, damn! If not, then why? I have no idea. All I do know is that all those people who say they know are full of shit, and I feel good knowing that I didn't buy into it.
I think some people may be looking at the subject of this thread as something divinely inspired or the answer is some spiritually bestowed one. That was not my intent at all. I left that behind with my Christian past. "Why are you here?" should be answered and inspired by you and you alone. I was just curious who on the board here had derived some reason, goal, objective, purpose for the time they have left to live.
QuoteOh, and to drink.
See. There is a purpose right there. And a damn good one at that.
Quote from: Stevil on March 02, 2012, 06:15:15 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 02, 2012, 05:30:45 PM
Make some money. Have some sex. :)
Surely money can't be your end goal, can it?
Money is a means to an end.
It seems a perfectly reasonable rewording of the classic wisdom, "first you get the money, then you get the woman." I usually associate that with a guttural accent but that's just my bias, there is no reason it shouldn't be pink.
I very much understand the desire to establish meaning for one's life. I'm always thinking that I should assign my life some purposeful meaning, or at least figure out a guiding principle for myself, as I often feel lost at sea. I know a great deal about what I'm not but not a whole lot about what I am.
Two ideals for living what I'd consider a good life are doing something that helps someone else/"giving back" to the community and having at least a cursory knowledge of what's going on in one's community/one's country/and the world so that one can be an informed voter (I still cling to this silly idea that my vote matters despite all evidence that the candidate with the most money wins).
To be honest, though, these must not be my real values, as my efforts at "giving back" to my community have been sporadic and lackluster at best, and I generally do only so-so on the keeping informed thing. I think I am a lazy hedonist at heart.
And yes, I am two Dogfishhead IPAs in. Why do you ask?
Quote from: Truthseeker on February 29, 2012, 11:58:51 AM
The answer to this question was obvious when I was a Christian: Love Christ with all my heart and lean on his understanding. All the while proselytizing in his name. And I did this with unfettered passion. But when I jettisoned my Christian belief I found myself soul searching for a meaning. After some time, I decided my purpose can be wrapped up in a pithy maxim: learn to give and recieve love. Never try to draw attention to myself. Don altruism at every turn sans falling into the trap of being a people pleaser. By no means am I an advanced master. I fall short again and again. But it is my constant aim.
Your thoughts?
Very simple really - there is no purpose to my life.
I suppose scientifically, my purpose is to reproduce and protect my offspring.
There is nothing else to it.
Any purpose from there on in, is simply purpose that I have defined for myself, and is of no use to anyone else. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy living, or giving, or discussing, cos I do.
Quote from: Anne D. on March 03, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
I think I am a lazy hedonist at heart.
Embrace it. Own it. Grok it!
"When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed"
Anton Lavey
Quote from: Anne D. on March 03, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
And yes, I am two Dogfishhead IPAs in. Why do you ask?
60, 90, or 120-minute? :) I like Dogfish too. Though not all of their experimental stuff works out as hoped ( especially their bacon-infused beer that I had once ) they make some great stuff.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on March 03, 2012, 09:21:37 PM
Quote from: Anne D. on March 03, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
I think I am a lazy hedonist at heart.
Embrace it. Own it. Grok it!
"When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed"
Anton Lavey
great quote Siz, I couldn't agree more with the sentiments. I'm hoping that lazy hedonists live long and happy lives, I'm 39 years into my own personal experiment and so far everything's pretty fine.
Why are we here? Because we're here. Roll the bones. :)
Quote from: Scissorlegs on March 03, 2012, 09:21:37 PM
Quote from: Anne D. on March 03, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
I think I am a lazy hedonist at heart.
Embrace it. Own it. Grok it!
"When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed"
Anton Lavey
Embracing it does have its appeal. Although it seems like any of the better things in my life have come out of actively working against my inner lazy hedonist. :)
Quote from: Firebird on March 04, 2012, 04:44:27 AM
Quote from: Anne D. on March 03, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
And yes, I am two Dogfishhead IPAs in. Why do you ask?
60, 90, or 120-minute? :) I like Dogfish too. Though not all of their experimental stuff works out as hoped ( especially their bacon-infused beer that I had once ) they make some great stuff.
It was the 60-minute (thankfully; just read that the 120-minute has 15-20 percent ABV and the 90-minute has 9). I actually haven't tried much Dogfish Head. I really like IPAs, though, and have been working my way through the different ones they carry at our local grocery store (which has a surprisingly nice selection). Wow to the bacon-infused variety. I love bacon and beer but I don't know about together.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FV5llr.jpg&hash=a7b1c69aacd1379dad302e8984759b1e014e2ff8)
So cute, Puddin'! :)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flib.haifa.ac.il%2Fcollections%2Fart%2Fgr%2Fleda_and_swan.gif&hash=bc9be46b0a36d4c690df9bccb7d4a91f01fd8483)
I'm not sure what's happening in the picture, but I'm not sure I like it...
As for me, I don't think I ever responded to this thread, so here are my two cents. Here's my purpose:
To be better.
Yes, that's vague, but I think it has to be. I want to be a better person and better at the things that I do.
Better at writing, thinking, sharing, understanding.
Better at parenting, better at learning life-skills.
Kinder to people who deserve kindness, better at handling conflict for those that spurn kindness.
I want to find better ways of asking "why" and "how" and "what does it mean?"
And better at defining what "better" means.
That's it, just about. :)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 23, 2012, 12:18:25 AM
I'm not sure what's happening in the picture, but I'm not sure I like it...
As for me, I don't think I ever responded to this thread, so here are my two cents. Here's my purpose:
To be better.
Yes, that's vague, but I think it has to be. I want to be a better person and better at the things that I do.
Better at writing, thinking, sharing, understanding.
Better at parenting, better at learning life-skills.
Kinder to people who deserve kindness, better at handling conflict for those that spurn kindness.
I want to find better ways of asking "why" and "how" and "what does it mean?"
And better at defining what "better" means.
That's it, just about. :)
I love your credo, DeterminedJuliet.
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on March 03, 2012, 02:06:18 AM
Quote from: Truthseeker on February 29, 2012, 11:58:51 AM
The answer to this question was obvious when I was a Christian: Love Christ with all my heart and lean on his understanding. All the while proselytizing in his name. And I did this with unfettered passion. But when I jettisoned my Christian belief I found myself soul searching for a meaning. After some time, I decided my purpose can be wrapped up in a pithy maxim: learn to give and recieve love. Never try to draw attention to myself. Don altruism at every turn sans falling into the trap of being a people pleaser. By no means am I an advanced master. I fall short again and again. But it is my constant aim.
Your thoughts?
Very simple really - there is no purpose to my life.
I suppose scientifically, my purpose is to reproduce and protect my offspring.
There is nothing else to it.
Any purpose from there on in, is simply purpose that I have defined for myself, and is of no use to anyone else. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy living, or giving, or discussing, cos I do.
Teleology alert! Science would and could never assert that your purpose is to reproduce.
Truthseeker, I think the answer to your question isn't in any one response, but in the multiplicity of the responses here. WE make our purpose, individually and collectively. As a society, we may well judge some individual's choices to be unacceptable - a psychopathic serial killer is not allowed to live out his self-selected purpose, for instance - but we also as a society come to realize the value in allowing individuals great latitude in choosing their own purpose.
As for me, I am a big fan of Joseph Campbell, who said, "What people seek is not the meaning of life but the experience of living."
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
Truthseeker, I think the answer to your question isn't in any one response, but in the multiplicity of the responses here. WE make our purpose, individually and collectively. As a society, we may well judge some individual's choices to be unacceptable - a psychopathic serial killer is not allowed to live out his self-selected purpose, for instance - but we also as a society come to realize the value in allowing individuals great latitude in choosing their own purpose.
Precisely adlprop. That is why I did not phrase the question as "What is THE purpose in life". Actually I think your post would apply to a number of different discussions here on this board as well as philosophical discussions everywhere. The antithesis of your comment is where religion falls apart for me. Religion, Christianity in my case, says you have ONE purpose and then preaches to you what that purpose should be. Incidentally the purpose is always he same: whatever they tell you it is. The whole thing is bullshit.
And I too am a fan of Campbell. He viewed life without any type of colored lense.
Quote from: Truthseeker on April 21, 2012, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
Truthseeker, I think the answer to your question isn't in any one response, but in the multiplicity of the responses here. WE make our purpose, individually and collectively. As a society, we may well judge some individual's choices to be unacceptable - a psychopathic serial killer is not allowed to live out his self-selected purpose, for instance - but we also as a society come to realize the value in allowing individuals great latitude in choosing their own purpose.
Precisely adlprop. That is why I did not phrase the question as "What is THE purpose in life". Actually I think your post would apply to a number of different discussions here on this board as well as philosophical discussions everywhere. The antithesis of your comment is where religion falls apart for me. Religion, Christianity in my case, says you have ONE purpose and then preaches to you what that purpose should be. Incidentally the purpose is always he same: whatever they tell you it is. The whole thing is bullshit.
And I too am a fan of Campbell. He viewed life without any type of colored lense.
The part I emphasized is why, personally, I always want to try and be careful about not becoming 'religious' about my atheism. I don't want to feel like I have to give a certain reaction or set of canned responses that the skeptical community at large thinks I ought to. I've never set out to be a 'poster child' for any one group. The value I place on my life isn't defined just by what I believe, or don't. I value the connections I have with other people, and the world around me, much more. I like sharing ideas, but I'm reluctant to get dogmatic about any of 'em.
I think of someone like Richard Dawkins. So many people see him as this strict, narrow, slightly arrogant science-obsessed blowhard. Smart as a whip, but defined almost entirely by his profession. Nobody ever really stops and thinks 'oh, he's a dad, he has hobbies, he probably has funny little quirks, he has a favourite food, etc'. They just think of him and think of two words: science, and atheism. He has the right to present himself however he'd like to, and to keep his personal life personal... but none of us are just one-dimensional people.
Yes, Truthseeker, that is puzzling to me. I've had many people tell me that they believe in God, a higher power, or what have you, because they can't bear the idea that there's no purpose or meaning to life. They need that imposed purpose to keep them going. I find it surprising that people with essentially the same "hardware" can have such different views of the world. In a sense, the creation of my own purpose really is my purpose.
Quote from: Amicale on April 21, 2012, 04:25:29 PM
I value the connections I have with other people, and the world around me, much more. I like sharing ideas, but I'm reluctant to get dogmatic about any of 'em.
This, Amicale, is quite beautiful, and it's why I don't much like the word "atheist." I can't prove there's no god, any more than I can't prove there's no invisible dragon in your garage. Also, just because I'm happy in a world with no evidence for the supernatural (kinda by definition!) doesn't mean that I'm an atheist by dogmatic choice, in the sense that I'm a Beatles fan, a bike rider, and a Democrat by choice. I'm an atheist because, as far as I can see, that's the way the world is. If someone presents me with evidence for their god, I'll reconsider. (Though that doesn't mean I'll worship! I'm still me, no matter what else is out there, and I'll decide who and what to respect based on my own ideas.)
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 04:28:26 PM
Yes, Truthseeker, that is puzzling to me. I've had many people tell me that they believe in God, a higher power, or what have you, because they can't bear the idea that there's no purpose or meaning to life. They need that imposed purpose to keep them going. I find it surprising that people with essentially the same "hardware" can have such different views of the world. In a sense, the creation of my own purpose really is my purpose.
In my experience over the years with ex-theists and never-theists the ex-theists often find giving up an ordained 'purpose' one of the most difficult things to do. They have been indoctrinated/inculcated with a need for a divine purpose. As a never-theist I find the need for a 'purpose' above and beyond that which one makes for oneself puzzling.
Quote from: Tank on April 21, 2012, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 04:28:26 PM
Yes, Truthseeker, that is puzzling to me. I've had many people tell me that they believe in God, a higher power, or what have you, because they can't bear the idea that there's no purpose or meaning to life. They need that imposed purpose to keep them going. I find it surprising that people with essentially the same "hardware" can have such different views of the world. In a sense, the creation of my own purpose really is my purpose.
In my experience over the years with ex-theists and never-theists the ex-theists often find giving up an ordained 'purpose' one of the most difficult things to do. They have been indoctrinated/inculcated with a need for a divine purpose. As a never-theist I find the need for a 'purpose' above and beyond that which one makes for oneself puzzling.
As an ex-theist, I agree with this. I find that some people who aren't even all that religious still hang on to this idea. It drives me crazy when people say "everything happens for a reason". I mean, yes, everything DOES happen "for a reason", but you might as well say "everything happens because it happens". The "for a reason" bit, implies purpose or divine providence, or some kind of benevolent force.
Quote from: Tank on April 21, 2012, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 04:28:26 PM
Yes, Truthseeker, that is puzzling to me. I've had many people tell me that they believe in God, a higher power, or what have you, because they can't bear the idea that there's no purpose or meaning to life. They need that imposed purpose to keep them going. I find it surprising that people with essentially the same "hardware" can have such different views of the world. In a sense, the creation of my own purpose really is my purpose.
In my experience over the years with ex-theists and never-theists the ex-theists often find giving up an ordained 'purpose' one of the most difficult things to do. They have been indoctrinated/inculcated with a need for a divine purpose. As a never-theist I find the need for a 'purpose' above and beyond that which one makes for oneself puzzling.
To me, it's pretty clear from the the word "your" in the thread title and the original post that this (bolded: the purpose that one makes for oneself) is what the thread is asking about. To me, it's a legitimate question for any person, theist or atheist.
What is it that gets one out of bed in the morning? What keeps one going from day to day?
Also, if you hold two strong values that give purpose/meaning to your life, how do you decide which trumps the other in your daily interactions? Example that people struggle with quite regularly: If you place a value on 1) community/friendship and kindness to others and also place a value on 2) honesty/not suffering fools gladly, how do you balance those two values in your daily interactions? I would imagine those with a very strong sense of purpose that they've worked out for themselves have an easier time deciding which trumps the other in their daily interactions. I'm quite envious of that.
Quote from: ablprop on April 21, 2012, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Amicale on April 21, 2012, 04:25:29 PM
I value the connections I have with other people, and the world around me, much more. I like sharing ideas, but I'm reluctant to get dogmatic about any of 'em.
This, Amicale, is quite beautiful, and it's why I don't much like the word "atheist." I can't prove there's no god, any more than I can't prove there's no invisible dragon in your garage. Also, just because I'm happy in a world with no evidence for the supernatural (kinda by definition!) doesn't mean that I'm an atheist by dogmatic choice, in the sense that I'm a Beatles fan, a bike rider, and a Democrat by choice. I'm an atheist because, as far as I can see, that's the way the world is. If someone presents me with evidence for their god, I'll reconsider. (Though that doesn't mean I'll worship! I'm still me, no matter what else is out there, and I'll decide who and what to respect based on my own ideas.)
:) Yes, this is where I'm at, too. I am an atheist because as far as I can see, that's the way the world is. If anything came up that convinced me otherwise, I'd be happy to at least consider it. Being atheist wasn't much of a 'choice' for me, as the alternative (trying to force myself to believe in a God when I no longer could) just wasn't an equally viable choice. I consider the choices I make to be ones I value for their worth, such as who I love, what my passions are, what I care about, etc.
By the way, I'm glad to meet a fellow Beatles fan and bike rider! :)