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Workshop and fixit stuff

Started by Dave, July 10, 2017, 07:26:50 PM

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hermes2015

Would a suitable-sized slot routed into the table top to accommodate the offending corner of the drill solve the problem?
"Who is to say that pleasure is useless?"
― Charles Eames

Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 03:19:41 PM
Would a suitable-sized slot routed into the table top to accommodate the offending corner of the drill solve the problem?

Er, by "table" I meant the long slide table of the mill base. Cutting a third of the width out off that would not be a good idea! Anyway, it would fall apart . . . I could, maybe, cut a little off the drill slide corner. A minorish design change of the whole drill press, the drill holding collar being at the bottom of the slide, would have prevented this!

Using the drill, which is not designed for side thrust, or an extension chuck is the only viable idea. There is an extension 6mm collet chuck available for less than a tenner, fits to a 6mm shaft so I would beed a bit of precision ground 6mm diameter steel rod. They have a suitable grinder at work, but all my old contacts have retired now.

[Pause]

OK, 6mm dia precision ground silver steel rod also now purchased. Probably take several hacksaw blades to cut it though.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

hermes2015

Quote from: Dave on August 01, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 03:19:41 PM
Would a suitable-sized slot routed into the table top to accommodate the offending corner of the drill solve the problem?

Er, by "table" I meant the long slide table of the mill base. Cutting a third of the width out off that would not be a good idea! Anyway, it would fall apart . . . I could, maybe, cut a little off the drill slide corner. A minorish design change of the whole drill press, the drill holding collar being at the bottom of the slide, would have prevented this!

Using the drill, which is not designed for side thrust, or an extension chuck is the only viable idea. There is an extension 6mm collet chuck available for less than a tenner, fits to a 6mm shaft so I would beed a bit of precision ground 6mm diameter steel rod. They have a suitable grinder at work, but all my old contacts have retired now.

[Pause]

OK, 6mm dia precision ground silver steel rod also now purchased. Probably take several hacksaw blades to cut it though.

OK, then what about adding a little "platform" under that green clamp to raise it above the table? Perhaps I'm not understanding the problem: I thought the bit could not go low enough.
"Who is to say that pleasure is useless?"
― Charles Eames

Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 06:26:15 PM
Quote from: Dave on August 01, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 03:19:41 PM
Would a suitable-sized slot routed into the table top to accommodate the offending corner of the drill solve the problem?

Er, by "table" I meant the long slide table of the mill base. Cutting a third of the width out off that would not be a good idea! Anyway, it would fall apart . . . I could, maybe, cut a little off the drill slide corner. A minorish design change of the whole drill press, the drill holding collar being at the bottom of the slide, would have prevented this!

Using the drill, which is not designed for side thrust, or an extension chuck is the only viable idea. There is an extension 6mm collet chuck available for less than a tenner, fits to a 6mm shaft so I would beed a bit of precision ground 6mm diameter steel rod. They have a suitable grinder at work, but all my old contacts have retired now.

[Pause]

OK, 6mm dia precision ground silver steel rod also now purchased. Probably take several hacksaw blades to cut it though.

OK, then what about adding a little "platform" under that green clamp to raise it above the table? Perhaps I'm not understanding the problem: I thought the bit could not go low enough.

It is not that obvious from that view. Not being able to raise the mill table as normal I have to set the travel of the drill press slide, with that slide at its lowest position with the handle pressed down, for the tip of the bit to reach the correct height above the mill table. There is an adjusting screw to adjust that lowest height so I can use "gauges", say drill shanks, to get a series of depths of cut.

But when the handle is pressed down the bottom corner of drill slide hits the mill table - when the tip of the bit is about 20mm above the table. So, I have to extend the position of the tip say 15mm lower.  A quick sketch, parts not in scale:



The circled parts are those which collide when the handle is operated.

As I said, if the drill/router holding collar were at the bottom corner if the slide, where it is in the circle, there would be no probs.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

hermes2015

Oh, I see it's a bit more complicated than I thought. An obvious solution doesn't spring to my mind. The whole of HAF will be waiting with bated breath to see how you solve it (no pressure).
"Who is to say that pleasure is useless?"
― Charles Eames

jumbojak

I was a bit worried when I saw the words "drill press" and "mill" used together when your first photo didn't load for me but now I can see what you're doing. As far as clearance goes, once you have your workpiece clamped in a vise it might raise it enough to allow the router room to sink in, depending on how far off of scale your drawing is.

They offer some fairly stout vises for mini Mills that sit a fair bit higher than a standard dp vise. Together with some parallels that might be just what you need. To cut your piece of rod I'd try to get my hands on an abrasive carbide hacksaw blade. They work very well for cutting hardened materials and aren't very expensive.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 07:27:08 PM
Oh, I see it's a bit more complicated than I thought. An obvious solution doesn't spring to my mind. The whole of HAF will be waiting with bated breath to see how you solve it (no pressure).
Well, as I said before the only obvious solution (barring buying a benchtop mill and there is a limit as to how much loading the attic floor will take, let alone floor space!) is to put an extension chuck in the router to bring the tip of the bit below that corner.  Even then the extra leverage side forces mean that slow, shallow cuts are indicated.

But, as I have also said, solving problems similar in type to this were what made my day at work satifying. One might wonder what the real purpose of this project is for me - is it the final product itself or the process in designing/making it and its accessories etc.?

I am thinking it is the latter!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Quote from: jumbojak on August 01, 2018, 07:50:05 PM
I was a bit worried when I saw the words "drill press" and "mill" used together when your first photo didn't load for me but now I can see what you're doing. As far as clearance goes, once you have your workpiece clamped in a vise it might raise it enough to allow the router room to sink in, depending on how far off of scale your drawing is.

They offer some fairly stout vises for mini Mills that sit a fair bit higher than a standard dp vise. Together with some parallels that might be just what you need. To cut your piece of rod I'd try to get my hands on an abrasive carbide hacksaw blade. They work very well for cutting hardened materials and aren't very expensive.

The mill base is a very small home model maker's job with the table width being about 4", it'smade from aluminium. Big, heavy vises would not fit and I may want to, say, cut grooves or slots in material less than 1/2" thick flat on the table - using the maximum width of that table. I don't often need to cut steel and rarely need to work to tolerances better than + - 0.5mm.

There is not a table available for my little router but I may look at a way to mount it under this board, using the mounting points to fit guides etc. Or maybe have a "top mounted" router with guides instead of the mill base . . . This project is going to have to be flexible! A "Jack-of-several-purposes" job.

Good tip on the carbide coated hacksaw blade, JJ, I had forgotten about those. Ta.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

hermes2015

Quote from: Dave on August 01, 2018, 08:01:38 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 07:27:08 PM
Oh, I see it's a bit more complicated than I thought. An obvious solution doesn't spring to my mind. The whole of HAF will be waiting with bated breath to see how you solve it (no pressure).
Well, as I said before the only obvious solution (barring buying a benchtop mill and there is a limit as to how much loading the attic floor will take, let alone floor space!) is to put an extension chuck in the router to bring the tip of the bit below that corner.  Even then the extra leverage side forces mean that slow, shallow cuts are indicated.

But, as I have also said, solving problems similar in type to this were what made my day at work satifying. One might wonder what the real purpose of this project is for me - is it the final product itself or the process in designing/making it and its accessories etc.?

I am thinking it is the latter!

The journey is sometimes as rewarding as the destination.
"Who is to say that pleasure is useless?"
― Charles Eames

Dave

Huh! Neither of my local trade suppliers, Wickes or Screwfix, carry carbide tipped hacksaw blades. Amazon do, but the shipping more than doubles the cost, to nearly £9, unless I spend a total over £20 at Amazon themselves to get free shipping. The chuck and rod are comming direct from their sellers, not Amazon.

I will find a way . . .
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 08:30:15 PM
Quote from: Dave on August 01, 2018, 08:01:38 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on August 01, 2018, 07:27:08 PM
Oh, I see it's a bit more complicated than I thought. An obvious solution doesn't spring to my mind. The whole of HAF will be waiting with bated breath to see how you solve it (no pressure).
Well, as I said before the only obvious solution (barring buying a benchtop mill and there is a limit as to how much loading the attic floor will take, let alone floor space!) is to put an extension chuck in the router to bring the tip of the bit below that corner.  Even then the extra leverage side forces mean that slow, shallow cuts are indicated.

But, as I have also said, solving problems similar in type to this were what made my day at work satifying. One might wonder what the real purpose of this project is for me - is it the final product itself or the process in designing/making it and its accessories etc.?

I am thinking it is the latter!

The journey is sometimes as rewarding as the destination.
Or even more so?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Final illustrations . . .



The router mounted, slider hits table before bit anywhere close.



The drill used, lots of space.

In both cases the drill press handle is held all the way down.

The power control system in the router gives a lot more torque at low speeds than the drill speed control circuit can achieve with similar wattages.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

jumbojak

Why not fab a new holder for the drill using the existing mount but have a support "ladder" that gives you more clearance? Instead ov the support for the holder dropping down, have it run straight back to the column. Might be a welding shop nearby that could either weld or braze it into place. An epoxy could work too.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Dave

#328
Quote from: jumbojak on August 01, 2018, 10:33:35 PM
Why not fab a new holder for the drill using the existing mount but have a support "ladder" that gives you more clearance? Instead ov the support for the holder dropping down, have it run straight back to the column. Might be a welding shop nearby that could either weld or braze it into place. An epoxy could work too.

I wish!

I live in a one room (plus kitchen and bathroom) apartment on the 1st (English style) floor of a block of four in a town terrace with outside space (just) for one car. My workshop is an attic with a working floor area about 8ft by 6ft. The worbench is a Black & Decker Workmate and I am limited as to how much weight there is and how much hammering I can do.  Sorry, misread second sentence, yes, with the right facilities the drill slide could be remodelled. I have previously looked for a jobbing welder round here who can do more than stick a patch on a car without much success, welding cast iron takes skill. Ditto workshops willing to do "coffee break jobs" for a fiver. They must exist but they do not advertise and usually work in obscure, cheap rent, areas. Gloucester is not a cheap rent area . . . That "five minute job" when I was at work and had access to heavy drills, lathes, mills and all varieties of welding kit can be a back-breaker now.

We don't have the spread of home workshop owners or suppliers in England - "do-it-yourself" is mostly restricted to decorating and light woodwork for 99% of houses. The essential "frontier spirit" where if you could not make or fix it yourself then you had to do without until industry caught up never happened here. I think this is why the vast majority of Mr (and a very few Ms) Fixits and home inventors on Youtube are American, why you have "Maker Fairs" and we don't. As far as home/farm made "inventions" go you usually have to look towards the necessary ingenuity displayed in rural areas in low economy areas (as much of America once was and maybe still has).

We Brits have not needed to develop those skills or own those kind of facilities for too long, there is always a tradesman just around the corner or a fsctory/repair centre within a reasonable few miles and, mostly, if it breaks we buy another. I buck that trend America has mostly developed out of such constant need, but the independant, self-resourceful Jack-of-all-trades pioneer spirit seems to remain.

I think you have it in aces, JJ!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

jumbojak

Work oUT the dimensions of the part you need and I'll see if I can knock something together for you once my arm starts working properly again. We have an enormous junk pile that I'm sure could supply enough scrap pieces. I'll even try to make it look pretty...

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz