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Workshop and fixit stuff

Started by Dave, July 10, 2017, 07:26:50 PM

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Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on February 26, 2018, 07:50:01 AM
Quote from: Dave on February 26, 2018, 06:27:32 AM
Like that design forum, Hermes, pity it is only furniture - but "design" has so many aspects it might take a good slice of the web to cover it! I would want to push it beyond appreciation to technique, even the maths . . .

If I could live my life again, I would choose a career in one of the design fields. I admire people like Charles Eames, Eileen Gray, and Phillipe Starck, among many other design heroes.

Here are three more design-oriented sites I visit regularly:

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/category/design/
http://just-good-design.com/
https://bauhaus-movement.tumblr.com/

Thanks, Hernes! Bookmarked.

The art and design section of Geoff's bookshop is my most vidited area there. When I lived in or near London the Design Centre was a favourite.

Deeign is such a wide field and all areas, from microcircuits to megastructures, concept to concrete, have their own inherent beauty.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

jumbojak

Well, it's official. I need a lathe. The handle screws for that plane are Stanley's proprietary, oddball 12-20. Even the industrial supply houses don't carry anything that size. I mean, I could drill and tap to a larger size but that might weaken the handles, and I wouldn't have an excuse to buy some Big Iron that would be oh so useful in so many ways.

I have a line on an old Atlas that I could grab for cheap. Would need to verify what thread pitches it's capable of though. 

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Dave

Quote from: jumbojak on February 27, 2018, 03:12:46 PM
Well, it's official. I need a lathe. The handle screws for that plane are Stanley's proprietary, oddball 12-20. Even the industrial supply houses don't carry anything that size. I mean, I could drill and tap to a larger size but that might weaken the handles, and I wouldn't have an excuse to buy some Big Iron that would be oh so useful in so many ways.

I have a line on an old Atlas that I could grab for cheap. Would need to verify what thread pitches it's capable of though.

That's a bummer, after that work. But good excuse for a lathe! I was trmptedvto buy a small precision lathe but have no room for it. Bought one very, very small table top job (do 90% of my work) but it was so badly designed you could not  drill a small hole then swap to a larger one and move the tailstock back then recenter accurately to drill a larger one! They advertised it as a precision model maker's lathe. So it went back for a refund.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

JJ: almost any of the old Atlas lathes are capable of 20 TPI.  That is such a standard that almost any lathe with a set of change gears can accomplish. 8, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32,  common thread pitches in imperial standard. The little atlas will do those.  Trouble with an Atlas or its counterpart Craftsman, has bronze bushings in the head stock.  If you need to cut metrics....you are out of luck with the old lathes.  Some of the Atlas machines have been converted to Timkens by clever craftsmen of the  past.  The old bushing style head stock bearings leave some play in the head which will make big trouble when cutting threads.  The small South Bend lathes almost always had good ball or taper bearings where it counted...in the head stock.

You don't need a lathe for this job.  A number 12 has an outside diameter of 0.215.  You can enlarge the outer thread diameter to 0.246 which is only one thirty second larger.   Use a number 7 (0.201) drill to enlarge the hole.  If you do not have number drills, a 13/64 drill is within 2 thousandths of the right size tap drill.  Use your  ordinary quarter- twenty tap to fix the hole to the more common fastener size.  A one thirty second increase in hole size ain't likely to weaken the handle.  Do use some tapping fluid or at least some mineral spirits to lube the new tap thread while cutting it.

Number 12 or any other fastener, number, inch, or metric  size is easy enough to source.  The problem is that fastener suppliers will only sell you a box of 100 and you only need one of them.  Do the simple mod and don't look back.

If you already know all this stuff, which I expect that you might,  then forgive me for the presumptions.

jumbojak

I might attempt that then Gene, if you think it'll work. My worry with enlarging the tapped holes is in having residual threads left from previous machining. I was thinking I'd have to go much larger than the existing hole size to clear new threads. I have a bucket's worth of taps lying around. Cleaned out an out of business hardware stores clearance sale. In taps I'm stocked as big as 3/4-10 and I'm pretty sure I have a complete set up to 1" in twist drills.

I do need either some larger tap wrenches or a set of tap sockets. Cleaning rusty holes with a big tap and a crescent wrench can be a bit unnerving. I find myself having to unfuck a lot of rusty junk that's past its prime.

I'd like a lathe though, but you're right about the atlas. Might be money ahead waiting for a good deal on a more substantial machine that was built for the long haul. There's a Clusing listed in Yorktown that I'd love to get my hands on. He has a South Bend 9A too. Of course, with a machine like that I'd have to take more precautions to keep my nephew and brother from using it and killing or maiming themselves. Long hair, long sleeves, and all that stuff scare the living daylights out of me around machinery.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Recusant

Quote from: jumbojak on February 27, 2018, 03:12:46 PM
Well, it's official. I need a lathe. The handle screws for that plane are Stanley's proprietary, oddball 12-20. Even the industrial supply houses don't carry anything that size. I mean, I could drill and tap to a larger size but that might weaken the handles, and I wouldn't have an excuse to buy some Big Iron that would be oh so useful in so many ways.

I have a line on an old Atlas that I could grab for cheap. Would need to verify what thread pitches it's capable of though.

Nice excuse to get a lathe.  ;)
Or you could shell out an absurd amount of money for the genuine article.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


jumbojak

Quote from: Recusant on February 28, 2018, 05:21:01 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on February 27, 2018, 03:12:46 PM
Well, it's official. I need a lathe. The handle screws for that plane are Stanley's proprietary, oddball 12-20. Even the industrial supply houses don't carry anything that size. I mean, I could drill and tap to a larger size but that might weaken the handles, and I wouldn't have an excuse to buy some Big Iron that would be oh so useful in so many ways.

I have a line on an old Atlas that I could grab for cheap. Would need to verify what thread pitches it's capable of though.

Nice excuse to get a lathe.  ;)
Or you could shell out an absurd amount of money for the genuine article.

That doesn't look nearly long enough to even be a tote screw. Right size and pitch maybe, but it's more likely to be a frog adjustment screw. FleaBay can be downright ridiculous. I found a screwdriver listed for $250 a few months ago while researching a junk store purchase.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Recusant

Ah, well, perhaps this or this is what you're looking for.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Recusant

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


jumbojak

Hmm... I doubt it's a Whitworth thread. It's a USA plane so I wouldn't expect a BSW thread but that wouldn't suprise me. The fog thickens because I can't tell using my thread gauges if it's a 60° V or 55°.  :-\

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Dave

Big prices for not very big screws! Rarity is obviously a factor.

But re big prices, I have seen 2nd hsnd books advertised on Amazon for, say, £3 in UK and, say £150 in the US. Not $, £!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Recusant

Quote from: jumbojak on February 28, 2018, 05:47:50 AM
Hmm... I doubt it's a Whitworth thread. It's a USA plane so I wouldn't expect a BSW thread but that wouldn't suprise me. The fog thickens because I can't tell using my thread gauges if it's a 60° V or 55°.  :-\

OK, I'm not a plane restorer, I just use whatever I can get my hands on, and usually it's modern planes with ugly plastic handles, though I did at one time have a few vintage items. Anyway, after looking around a bit, here's what I found:

QuoteMany of the bolts and fixings on a Bailey Pattern plane are non standard (as far as normal engineering threads are concerned). 2 occasions where you might encounter this issue are replacing the oft-missing bolt at the toe of the tote (on #5 and bigger planes) and modifying the front knob (and its fixing bolt) to be of the "low knob" pattern.

If you measure the pitch of the thread, it looks like you're dealing with Whitworth/UNC ¼", since it's 20 TPI. But it's not ¼" OD; it's #12 size, or 0.216", a full 34 thou less (or 1/32" if you don't think in thous). Conversely, the standard UNC pitch for #12 rod is 24 TPI. This thread was never an engineering standard, just a Stanley plane standard.

So it looks like Stanley did use Whitworth, and the Highland Woodworking screws would work.

If you're interested in some history on this that I came across (which doesn't really answer the question): Stanley Planes and Screw Threads
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Dave

Who would hsve thought thst plane handle screws could generate such interest and research effort?!

:grin:

[I do so wish that every keyboard had the interrobang - it seems tailor made for forum responses!]
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

hermes2015

That's fascinating. I love this stuff.
"Who is to say that pleasure is useless?"
― Charles Eames

Dave

Quote from: hermes2015 on February 28, 2018, 07:00:08 AM
That's fascinating. I love this stuff.
Any interesting screws that you need to research, Hermes?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74