A sensible discussion on American gun ownership and law

Started by billy rubin, November 03, 2019, 10:49:41 PM

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billy rubin

This tread was not created by billy rubin. I have taken the liberty of splitting off some posts from another thread to create this one. THIS IS A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD. This means civility will be scrupulously enforced. Generalisations like 'All Americans are gun nuts!' or similar are not allowed. Before you post read your post twice before you hit the save button and if it could be considered the slightest bit offensive or provocative for no good reason than to be offensive or provocative then modify the post or dump it. If you don't feel you can adhere to these requirements I strongly suggest that you just read the thread and don't get involved. This is an emotive subject, let's see how grown up we can be about it folks.

If you have an issue with making this a Zero Tolerance thread then PM me or another member of staff, but do not raise the subject on this thread please.

Regards
Tank


i live on a farm in the country, so i can set up a range anywhere i want. we don't have much- an old 1960's marlin 60 semi-auto my son culls the tree squirrels with, and then a handgun or two for the occasional rabid or maybe rabid raccoons. my number two son has a 50-caliber flintlock pistol that is fun to shoot.

out here only straight case riflle cartridges and shotgun slugs are legal for the deer. but i don't eat meat, so they more or less wander unmolested.

i bought this quite recently, not the last thing but not long ago:



i'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon, but i'm of multiple minds on the matter. on the one hand, i think it's a shame to think one is necessary. on the other, i've been too close to three multiple shootings, and if i'm ever near a fourth, i would rather be there with a weapon.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Dark Lightning

'Murrica! We have a real gun problem here. I have some, but I'm not the nut who shoots places and people up. Papers targets, however, are at my mercy. None given.

billy rubin

yes. its a problem, and getting worse.

i dont know what to do about it.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

jumbojak

What do you think of the LCP Billy? I've considered one for myself.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Siz

Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 04, 2019, 12:04:57 AM
'Murrica! We have a real gun problem here. I have some, but I'm not the nut who shoots places and people up.
10/10 for not seeing the wood for the trees. Right there is the gun problem in America.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Tank

All posts from here on must be scrupulously civil. Keep on topic or your posts will be removed.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

i'm going to officially change my name to Off-Topic at this rate.

jumbo, mine is the older LCP, the one with the double action only trigger. i like it a lot for concealed carry, but thats all it does. at .380, its a bit expensive to plink with, and the small sights make it inappropriate for more than close range. but its a polymer frame and weighs nothing, and is small enough to slip into a pocket. six and one is enough for a self defense weapon.

people complain about the long trigger pull, but for a gun thats designed to be carried with a chambered round, i like that better than single action. it works okay, but the very small size means you have to practice to be able to pull the long trigger without pulling the frame off target.

i use a flat hip pocket holster that prints no bigger than a wallet:



"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Tank

Quote from: billy rubin on November 04, 2019, 09:26:34 AM
i'm going to officially change my name to Off-Topic at this rate.
...

Creative posting is the life blood of a forum. Don't change a thing!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

I have a question. Do any of our American members think there is any possibility whatsoever of American gun law becoming strict enough to actually make a difference to the current situation?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

Quote from: Siz on November 04, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 04, 2019, 12:04:57 AM
'Murrica! We have a real gun problem here. I have some, but I'm not the nut who shoots places and people up.
10/10 for not seeing the wood for the trees. Right there is the gun problem in America.

ive been around guns most all my life. my grandparents kept a 12 gauge double leaning against the wall by the telephone, and everybody kept a .22 under the seat in the pickup.

where i live its assumed that there is a gun in the house. no big deal.

but in the last twenty five years things seem to be changing in america. my cousin was a physics professor at a california university. he and two other professors were shot to death by a nutcase grad student in a university conference room, during a thesis defense the student thought he was going to fail. since then there have been two mass shootings in towns i used to live in, on the same streets i walked. mass shootings are occurring at a level that is disturbing. i think this is genuinely something new.

ive run the numbers, and most mass shootings are done with handguns. but the ones that kill large numbers of people all at once are generally semi automatic rifles. i cannot remember which was responsible for more actual deaths. ill go look.

america has lots of guns in circulation. they wont go away, and they will never be turned in. the ones people choose for mass shootings also happen to be the most popular guns in the country already, like the AR 15, which people hunt with. but we regulated machine guns a lot of years ago, and except for criminals those are mostly out of circulation.

who would we regulate to decrease gun violence in america? how would we construct the laws? which freedoms can we agree on to limit, and how much?

i dont know.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Tank

Thank you for your insightful and measured commentary.

Are guns sold as a loss leader and the profit comes with the ammunition? Or is the ammunition such a commodity that gun makers have to price realistically at point of sale? What is the second hand gun market like?

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Siz

Quote from: billy rubin on November 04, 2019, 09:44:55 AM
Quote from: Siz on November 04, 2019, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 04, 2019, 12:04:57 AM
'Murrica! We have a real gun problem here. I have some, but I'm not the nut who shoots places and people up.
10/10 for not seeing the wood for the trees. Right there is the gun problem in America.

ive been around guns most all my life. my grandparents kept a 12 gauge double leaning against the wall by the telephone, and everybody kept a .22 under the seat in the pickup.

where i live its assumed that there is a gun in the house. no big deal.

but in the last twenty five years things seem to be changing in america. my cousin was a physics professor at a california university. he and two other professors were shot to death by a nutcase grad student in a university conference room, during a thesis defense the student thought he was going to fail. since then there have been two mass shootings in towns i used to live in, on the same streets i walked. mass shootings are occurring at a level that is disturbing. i think this is genuinely something new.

ive run the numbers, and most mass shootings are done with handguns. but the ones that kill large numbers of people all at once are generally semi automatic rifles. i cannot remember which was responsible for more actual deaths. ill go look.

america has lots of guns in circulation. they wont go away, and they will never be turned in. the ones people choose for mass shootings also happen to be the most popular guns in the country already, like the AR 15, which people hunt with. but we regulated machine guns a lot of years ago, and except for criminals those are mostly out of circulation.

who would we regulate to decrease gun violence in america? how would we construct the laws? which freedoms can we agree on to limit, and how much?

i dont know.
Until you abolish or amend the second amendment, your children will continue to die.
An outright ban works pretty well in most other civilised countries.
All gun owners who cry 'it wasnt me so I wanna keep my guns' are culpable. You obviously cant be trusted with them.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Tank

Quote from: Siz on November 04, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
... You obviously cant be trusted with them.

Cant? Possibly can't is what you meant.

On point. Can any society be trusted with guns as all societies have variability in the population. Are we considering the total removal of guns in the civilian population?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

Quote from: Tank on November 04, 2019, 10:06:05 AM
Thank you for your insightful and measured commentary.

Are guns sold as a loss leader and the profit comes with the ammunition? Or is the ammunition such a commodity that gun makers have to price realistically at point of sale? What is the second hand gun market like?

the second hand market is huge and impossible to regulate. there are millions of weapons in circulation and no ban will ever make people volunteer to give them up mozt gun purchases i know about are between individuals.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Tank

Quote from: Siz on November 04, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
...
Until you abolish or amend the second amendment, your children will continue to die.
...

I hate to consider this but from the outside it looks like this is absolutely true.  :(
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.