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Why I'm voting for Biden

Started by Ecurb Noselrub, August 21, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

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Recusant

Just in case a Trumpist happens to look in, I decided it would be best to spoiler this. Don't want to give them nightmares.  :snicker1:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Ecurb Noselrub

YES!!!!! Our dark night is almost over.

Dark Lightning

I watched the speeches. I've also been around the internet and seen that the "Donald" refuses to concede, and that people are worried. All kinds of scenarios about CIA and military involvement were mentioned. Neither the CIA or the military would be involved with removal of the Child in Chief. Once the new president is sworn in next January, any unwelcome (including EX-Presidents) persons in the White House will be removed by the US Secret Service.

I'd pay money to watch that sorry sack of McBurgers dragged out.

Tank

I have a feeling, just a feeling, that Trump may never set foot in the Whitehouse again. He ran away. He is a bully and we know that bullies are cowards. He can't and won't face the truth of the fact he's a loser who has been fired. He simply doesn't have the guts to face Washington where people will be pointing and laughing for all they are worth. He may well simply retreat into denial behind an army of lawyers and spit via twitter.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tom62

The last apearences of Trump made him look like a bad parody of himself.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Asmodean

I think it's safe to congratulate President-elect Biden and those who wanted for him to win.

From an ocean away, I don't think he was a good choice, but then, neither was re-electing president Trump (if in different ways - with a substantial overlap) Still, I will resist getting into the question of "lesser evil" until Mr. Biden has been in the office for some time.

That said and done, I think calling for a re-count in places where the difference between the two candidates was slim is prudent, as is the investigation of any impropriety as long as all parties accept any legitimate findings of such an investigation, whatever they may be. That is not to overturn the results or stick it to one camp or the other, but to protect the system, such that as close as possible to every legitimate vote gets counted exactly once, and as close as possible to none of the illegitimate votes do.

I suspect that it will turn into a symphony of virtue-signalling, political machinations and catchy one-liners, but such are humans... The world could use a few more Asmos, if you ask The Asmo... But nobody does.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Dark Lightning

Quote from: Tank on November 08, 2020, 05:11:52 AM
I have a feeling, just a feeling, that Trump may never set foot in the Whitehouse again. He ran away. He is a bully and we know that bullies are cowards. He can't and won't face the truth of the fact he's a loser who has been fired. He simply doesn't have the guts to face Washington where people will be pointing and laughing for all they are worth. He may well simply retreat into denial behind an army of lawyers and spit via twitter.

Well, Steve Bannon got kicked off twitter. I think once Trump isn't president, they'll give him the boot, too. I certainly wouldn't provide the jerk with a free platform to spread his lies. Make him buy his own Völkischer Beobachter to spew from.

Asmodean

Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 08, 2020, 08:51:44 PM
Well, Steve Bannon got kicked off twitter. I think once Trump isn't president, they'll give him the boot, too. I certainly wouldn't provide the jerk with a free platform to spread his lies. Make him buy his own Völkischer Beobachter to spew from.
I find that attitude deeply disagreeable. Every bit as deeply so, in fact, as I find spreading misinformation. Which platform should you be banned from for that?

(It's a rhetorical question - I wouldn't de-platform you for your attitude any more than I would de-platform Mr. Bannon for his "wrongthink." Still, the question is worth pondering)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Davin

Quote from: Asmodean on November 08, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
From an ocean away, I don't think he was a good choice, but then, neither was re-electing president Trump (if in different ways - with a substantial overlap) Still, I will resist getting into the question of "lesser evil" until Mr. Biden has been in the office for some time.
There is enough to know now that Biden is the better choice. Not the best choice if we're fantasizing, but the best choice of the options available. Which is no different than any other choice in life.

Quote from: Asmodean
That said and done, I think calling for a re-count in places where the difference between the two candidates was slim is prudent, as is the investigation of any impropriety as long as all parties accept any legitimate findings of such an investigation, whatever they may be. That is not to overturn the results or stick it to one camp or the other, but to protect the system, such that as close as possible to every legitimate vote gets counted exactly once, and as close as possible to none of the illegitimate votes do.
So far, all of the illegitimate votes, were from people trying to vote twice for Trump. And like every other election before, the amount was so small as to not really matter in the end. Voter fraud is extremely rare, and even if not caught would have virtually no impact. Election fraud on the other hand does have an impact. Things like the USPS not looking for 300,000 votes that they lost and refusing a court order to do so. In the past there have been instances of election fraud committed by democrats, however there have been found instances of election fraud committed by Republicans in every election year for the last few decades. That doesn't even count the legally permitted shenanigans. And there were representative observers for Trump that were in the rooms during the counting of the votes.

The republicans had several bills voted on and ready to take to the Senate for years that would have helped maintain election security from both foreign and domestic influences and they decided to take no action. Thankfully though this year, there was a lot more mail in voting which meant more on paper which are more difficult to fudge.

The only state right now where a recount is likely to shift in Trump's favor is Georgia, and with 8k votes to make up, it's not likely. And even if done and does somehow go to Trump, Trump still loses. At some point, it's just a waste of time and money, just like doing recounts in 2016 would have just been a waste of time and money.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

Quote from: Davin on November 09, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
At some point, it's just a waste of time and money, just like doing recounts in 2016 would have just been a waste of time and money.
Not as long as the condition of all sides accepting the findings of an investigation holds. In practice, I think it's not likely, but as a matter of principle, the investigations should proceed.

Quote from: Davin on November 09, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
There is enough to know now that Biden is the better choice.
That's a matter of opinion. What if over half my vote is based on Nationalism and economic protectionism? Is Mr. Biden still a better choice?

Maybe it will turn out that he is. As I said in this thread or the other one where I currently do politics, I reserve judgement until Mr. Biden has been in the office for some time.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Davin

Quote from: Asmodean on November 09, 2020, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 09, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
At some point, it's just a waste of time and money, just like doing recounts in 2016 would have just been a waste of time and money.
Not as long as the condition of all sides accepting the findings of an investigation holds. In practice, I think it's not likely, but as a matter of principle, the investigations should proceed.
In general, there are usually investigations still done when there is evidence called for. Republicans denied the results of multiple investigations that showed that Russia had interfered on behalf of Trump. So I don't it's likely they would listen to the results if it turned out Republicans were helped by interference and fraud.

Quote from: Asmodean
Quote from: Davin on November 09, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
There is enough to know now that Biden is the better choice.
That's a matter of opinion. What if over half my vote is based on Nationalism and economic protectionism? Is Mr. Biden still a better choice?
Yes. Even if you agree with your favorite proponent of nationalism and economic protectionism at one time, it's better to not have that person in power over you in lieu of a person that will protect (or in the least not infringe on), their reasonable freedoms.

Quote from: Asmodean
Maybe it will turn out that he is. As I said in this thread or the other one where I currently do politics, I reserve judgement until Mr. Biden has been in the office for some time.
We had a history of Trump's behavior before he became president and Trump did not betray that in action as president. We have a history of Biden in political offices, and it's unlikely he will shift too far from that. We already have years of evidence with which to make judgments. It's good to both make judgments and also to allow those judgments to be changed based on new evidence.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dark Lightning

Quote from: Asmodean on November 09, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 08, 2020, 08:51:44 PM
Well, Steve Bannon got kicked off twitter. I think once Trump isn't president, they'll give him the boot, too. I certainly wouldn't provide the jerk with a free platform to spread his lies. Make him buy his own Völkischer Beobachter to spew from.
I find that attitude deeply disagreeable. Every bit as deeply so, in fact, as I find spreading misinformation. Which platform should you be banned from for that?

(It's a rhetorical question - I wouldn't de-platform you for your attitude any more than I would de-platform Mr. Bannon for his "wrongthink." Still, the question is worth pondering)

I'm sure Trump can find a place and his worshippers will flock to it. He can even control it so that any negative comments made can be deleted by him. Same goes for Bannon. I don't spread misinformation or racist rhetoric, so I'm in no danger of having a platform removed from under me. Twitter doesn't have to support anyone's first amendment rights, and that goes for anyone, not just Trump or Bannon. I'm only here for the fun company, and have already gotten into politics further than I like.

Asmodean

Quote from: Dark Lightning on November 09, 2020, 04:40:33 PM
I'm sure Trump can find a place and his worshippers will flock to it. He can even control it so that any negative comments made can be deleted by him. Same goes for Bannon. I don't spread misinformation or racist rhetoric, so I'm in no danger of having a platform removed from under me. Twitter doesn't have to support anyone's first amendment rights, and that goes for anyone, not just Trump or Bannon. I'm only here for the fun company, and have already gotten into politics further than I like.
As I said, I was being rhetorical, so my response was not an attempt at a stab in your general direction. I am not making a 1st amendment argument either - we don't have one. My constitution does state that the freedom of expression (therein speech) should be respected, but what's more, my world view does the same; if it's an opinion (even be it a minority opinion) then far be it for me to suppress it.

Quote from: Davin on November 09, 2020, 04:11:44 PM
We had a history of Trump's behavior before he became president and Trump did not betray that in action as president. We have a history of Biden in political offices, and it's unlikely he will shift too far from that. We already have years of evidence with which to make judgments. It's good to both make judgments and also to allow those judgments to be changed based on new evidence.
I'm not suggesting that someone with more knowledge of the two could not make an informed judgement - just saying that my judgement is reserved for the lack of input.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Recusant

Quote from: Magdalena on November 07, 2020, 07:07:02 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 06, 2020, 01:45:12 PM
What disappoints me is the number of Latinos in Texas who went for Trump.  They basically handed him the victory here.  The GOP successfully tattooed the Dems with the "Socialist" label and it apparently scared Cubans in Florida and Tex-Mex Latinos here.
I'm disappointed, as well. I don't understand why. As a Latina, I apologize for this. Only bad words come to mind if I try to find the words to describe The Latino Trump Supporters. Sadly, they sell their soul thinking they will be accepted by those who hate them and the sad truth is that most of the time they are never accepted, and the other side now sees them as traitors. Traitors to their honor, self-respect, traditions, and dignity.

We need to do a lot of work in that area.  :felix:

I thought of these posts when I read an article about the political culture of the Rio Grande Valley.

"Trump Didn't Win the Latino Vote in Texas. He Won the Tejano Vote." | Politico

QuoteOf all the results from the November 3 election, few drew as much attention from national political observers as what happened in a quiet county on the banks of the Rio Grande River. Donald Trump became the first Republican presidential candidate to win Zapata County's vote in a hundred years. But it wasn't its turn from a deep-blue history that seemed to be the source of such fascination but rather that, according to the census, more than 94 percent of Zapata's population is Hispanic or Latino.

Zapata (population less than 15,000) was the only county in South Texas that flipped red, but it was by no means an anomaly: To the north, in more than 95-percent Hispanic Webb County, Republicans doubled their turnout. To the south, Starr County, which is more than 96-percent Hispanic, experienced the single biggest tilt right of any place in the country; Republicans gained by 55 percentage points compared with 2016. The results across a region that most politicos ignored in their preelection forecasts ended up helping to dash any hopes Democrats had of taking Texas.

To many outsiders, these results were confounding: How could Trump, one of the most virulently anti-immigrant leaders, make inroads with so many Latinos, and along the Mexican border no less?

In Zapata, however, these questions have been met with mild chuckles to outright frustration. The shift, residents and scholars of the region say, shouldn't be surprising if, instead of thinking in terms of ethnic identity, you consider the economic and cultural issues that are specific to the people who live there. Although the vast majority of people in these counties mark "Hispanic or Latino" on paper, very few long-term residents have ever used the word "Latino" to describe themselves. Ascribing Trump's success in South Texas to his campaign winning more of "the Latino vote" makes the same mistake as the Democrats did in this election: Treating Latinos as a monolith.

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Icarus

The Cuban population of Florida went all out for Trump.  They apparently put aside Trumps anti immigrant, anti Hispanic,  position.  Instead they may have been taken in by the claims that Biden and the whole De,ocratic party are socialists.  Problem is that the term "socialist"  is misunderstood and incorrectly equated with communism.  No wonder that the Cubans are opposed to communism, what with history of the the Fidel Castro regime and all.

Not just the Cubans. The socialist label is not well enough understood by the great unwashed or the ones Hillary called "Deplorables". Socialism: n 1. A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the community as a whole should own and control the means of production, distribution, and exchange. 


Does that general idea already exist and is much approved by the citizens in your town or city?  How about your fire department, police department. sewage disposal facility?  You do have local rule for such things do you not?   The City Council that has a hand in operating the facilities of so many towns and cities are examples of socialistic structure.   

Another generality for socialism is that it is a function, or a business of some sort, that is owned, financed, and operated by the government.  The Interstate highway system falls into that category.  There is the Social Security agency, and Medicare of course.  Those entities  enjoy approval by most of us. National Parks anyone? 

We already practice Socialism and it is working reasonably well.