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#1
Laid Back Lounge / Re: animals in your life
Last post by Icarus - Today at 02:23:40 AM
My backyard bird feeder is a source of wonder sometimes.  A redheaded woodpecker will rap on the feeder if it is empty.  He is either telling me that I need to fill the feeder, or he is trying to rattle any remaining sunflower seeds out of the feeder. Clever bird.

There is a certain Blue Jay who has the habit of pecking at the perch stick that he is standing on. Why? I have no idea. Other BJs have no such habit.

Today in early afternoon there were five different kinds of birds at or within ten feet of the feeder, all at the same time. I was pleased to observe that they were politely taking turns at the platform that holds the seeds.
#2
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Anne D. - Today at 01:44:11 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2022, 12:14:48 PM
QuoteNow, lots of people have them, but people having these weapons does not stop shooters from killing children in school. So, that is not a good argument for having them.
Do they actually argue that the reason for having one is protection from mass shootings?

Yes, this is a frequent refrain on the American right after a mass shooting.

Quote from: Asmodean on May 25, 2022, 12:14:48 PMI mean, there are far better reasons. For instance, if you happen to be defending against a group of violent rioters, being able to take down multiple targets quickly may well save your ass.

The best thing is, of course, not to be in a violent riot, but if they break the windows and get into your home, where your children are... What, by that point, is the reasoning behind not being able to hose them down with machinegun fire?

What? This is a truly bizarre imagined scenario. It reads like a personal fantasy where you imagine yourself playing the hero. I'm not recalling any instances of violent rioters breaking into family homes to kill one's children. On the other hand, the U.S. has a mass shooting at least monthly.

billy, I like your listed proposals; they make a lot of sense.
#3
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by billy rubin - May 25, 2022, 11:30:43 PM
i once counted up deaths in recent mass shootings- 4 or more deaths, iirc

most people in mass shootings were killed with pistols, shotguns, and non semiautomatic rifles

but the shootings that killed the most people in one go were mostly AR15 clones.

the assault rifle killings are the ones thst get the attention, because so many people die at once. but more people are killed in total with more garden-variety guns.

we have had 27 school shootings in the states this year. most were not assault rifles.

the assault rifles get the press, but regulating other guns will save more lives

#4
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Ecurb Noselrub - May 25, 2022, 10:26:20 PM
A little history on Uvalde. It was the home of John Nance Garner, a former US Speaker of the House, and Vice-President for two terms under FDR. Garner State Park north of Uvalde is named for him. Now it is predominantly Latino.

This killing was not racial/ethnic: it was a Latino killing mainly Latinos. Obviously, the killer had mental health issues of some sort, but we may never know. Word is that he was bullied in school and had stopped going to class. So all kinds of layers here. 

All the deaths were in one classroom. One can only imagine the horror.
#5
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Ecurb Noselrub - May 25, 2022, 10:21:10 PM
I think billy's suggestions are good. To answer the Asmo, an assault weapon is typically semiautomatic, with some other feature like large magazines or bayonet attachments.  As we have seen with racism, if you treat the symptoms, eventually people's attitudes change. Very few people today seriously advocate for slavery as they did in 1860 or segregation as they did in 1960. The legal fixes eventually resulted in a more tolerant society. Of course, racism still exists, but nothing like during Jim Crow.

So, if we change gun laws to provide for more serious background checks, eventually (years later) it could result in changed attitudes. People didn't like seatbelts when they were first mandated, but now they are second-nature. 
#6
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by billy rubin - May 25, 2022, 08:31:53 PM
ive thought abiut this a lot. there are guns all over where i live. i always assume the people i stop to chat with on my dirt roads are armed. they genenerally are, as am i. i have a concealed carry permit, and i always have a semiautomatic pistol with me.

there are around 400 million guns in america. even if it wouldnt caise widespread civil disobedience, registration, general licensing, and confiscation wont work. tbe guns are here to stay.

but things can be done:

- license all semiautomatic long guns and charge a large federal fee to own one. grandfather the ones here. this is why machine, submachine, and machine pistols disappeated from tbe american market.  this would be very unpopular, but lever action, bolt action, and pump action guns are all multi shot and work for defense, hunting, and targe t. this means my innocuous 22 caliber semi auto rifle would be regulated in the same way as an AK47.

-- require universal background checks. this is a no brainer, and is done every day in ten minutes at gun shows. if you cannot legally own a gun, you should not be able to buy one.

-- make the owners responsible for locking up their guns. half the american school shootings since 1990 could have been prevented this way. like the oxford parents, if they dont take respobsible safeguards, make them criminally liable for death and injury.

-- ditch tbe constitutional carry crap. the second amendment reqires a "well regulated" militia. so require classroom instruction and live fire training to buy and carry a gun. we already require gun training before a kid can get a hunting license. make training mandatory. do the backgtound check then too.

-- make and enforce redflag laws. if a judge decides that you are a dNger to yourself and ithers, then have him issue a court order to remove your guns and store them until you show c a use why the order should be rescinded.

 none of this addresses the root causes, but im happy to treat the symptoms until we figure out what the root causes are. tuff like this could move the country closer to a balance point between tbe constitutional right to own a gun and the constitutional right to be secure in your person.

#7
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Tom62 - May 25, 2022, 07:18:17 PM
Germany has very strong anti gun laws. Nevertheless there was a school shooting in Bremerhafen six days ago (one person injured) and another one in Heidelberg in January of this year (one dead and three injured).

It also pays off to check social media. In the beginning of this month investigators in Germany's city of Essen said they foiled a school bomb assault, as they arrested a 16-year-old who is suspected to have been planning a "Nazi terror attack". Police in Essen stormed the teen's room overnight, taking him into custody and uncovering 16 "pipe bombs", as well as anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim material.
#8
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Asmodean - May 25, 2022, 12:31:32 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on May 25, 2022, 12:18:35 PMIn this particular case (and several others) the gunman posted on social media what he was going to do.
That practically screams "stop me," doesn't it?
#9
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Tom62 - May 25, 2022, 12:18:35 PM
The problem is not so much the guns themselves. Yes, assault weapons should not be easily available for the common public but on the other hand no reasonable, sensible person will go on a killing spree with them. Like Asmo already said, there is any law that could and will stop a determined crazy person to get hold of such a weapon. It would be a bit more problematic here in Europe than in the USA, but there are ways to get them (for example on the Dark Web).

The problem will not solve itself. Implementing stronger anti-gun laws may sound great on paper, but are very ineffective. For example Chicago has very strong gun laws, but that doesn't stop people to kill each other there in great numbers on a daily basis.

I believe that you should solve problems by the roots. That means addressing mental health issues and making sure that mentally unstable people are identified as quickly as possible and are offered help to bring them back to normality. In this particular case (and several others) the gunman posted on social media what he was going to do. That should have raised many red flags.
#10
Social Issues and Causes / Re: School murder
Last post by Asmodean - May 25, 2022, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 25, 2022, 10:57:50 AMUS "culture", with respect to firearms, was not always like this. It is a phenomenon of the past 20 years or so. One way to fix it is to ban assault weapons and body armor. The shooter here was able to buy a WMD and body armor too easily. We can fix that with tighter restrictions on fire arms. We can ban magazines that have more than a certain number of bullets. There are things that can be done. Like racism, we can't get rid of the inner issues, but we can fix some of the outer ones.
Would you, though? Be rid of those outer issues?

To put it this way, let us assume that I am a drug cartel, moving me some nice white powders into the United States. I know that the US government has made it harder to get an "assault weapon," whatever that means, with a high capacity magazine. I know that them Americans do love some boomstick, and so I start moving them. In that scenario, it would be as "hard" to get an automatic rifle as it is to get heroin. That's not far from the situation I find myself in. If it occurred to me to shoot up a school and I decided to act on it, the biggest hassle would honestly be getting the ammo (Assuming the same drug cartel doesn't move that, too)

QuotePeople used to be satisfied with a shotgun or deer rifle, and a pistol for target practice. 25 years or so ago there were no assault weapons.
For those of us less versed in US terminology, what makes a weapon "assault?"

QuoteNow, lots of people have them, but people having these weapons does not stop shooters from killing children in school. So, that is not a good argument for having them.
Do they actually argue that the reason for having one is protection from mass shootings? I mean, there are far better reasons. For instance, if you happen to be defending against a group of violent rioters, being able to take down multiple targets quickly may well save your ass.

The best thing is, of course, not to be in a violent riot, but if they break the windows and get into your home, where your children are... What, by that point, is the reasoning behind not being able to hose them down with machinegun fire?

QuoteArming teachers is even worse - if you have armed personnel in school, someone is going to get shot.  Armed guards don't even help if the shooter is wearing body armor, as we saw in Buffalo. Just ban assault weapons. If you don't have access to them, you can't buy them when you turn 18. We can all keep our hunting rifles and pistols for self-protection, but we don't need assault rifles for that.
I agree that the solution probably is not arming more people with heavier weapons - that would be the definition of an arms race. A ban, however... How much would it actually solve.

Let's look at the abovementioned Buffalo, for instance. What would that shooter have had to do to get an equivalent weapon if he could not have walked into a store and bought one? How many more steps would that take? How much more time? Would it have caused the would-be shooter to... What? Just give up? Go on a stabbing spree in stead? Cook up a fertilizer bomb?