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Politics!

Started by LegendarySandwich, January 02, 2011, 06:18:24 AM

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LegendarySandwich

So, I was wondering what political ideologies the happy atheists (and theists) at HAF most identify with, and why. [strike:sxvenc43]Personally, I'm a libertarian -- I believe in freedom, personal responsibility, and am against authoritarianism, censorship, and laws that unnecessarily restrict our freedom.[/strike:sxvenc43] Never mind, I'm apparently a socialist. What about you?

Will

Ideologically, I'm very much a collectivist. I like helping other people, I'm extremely averse to harming other people passively or actively, and I expect the same from other people. I believe in fairness, particularly fairness in competition. I believe in working together for common goals and helping people for the sake of helping them, not for profit or due to threats. These, I think, stem from my humanism.

In practice, however, I'd like to think I only have a passing connection to my ideologies. Politics should never be ideological; politics should be scientific and fact-based. There should be vast equations where the common good is quantifiable and the means to get to the common good can be demonstrated objectively, scientifically. There should be no ego, no subjective opinion, and no self-service in politics. If the best answer to a political question runs against my particular ideologies, then my ideologies are wrong.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

Asmodean

I'm a mess.

I'm a near-anarchist and yet in many ways I support extensive government control. My political alegience varies from case to case, really, but in my country, I identify with the far-right (liberal wing here)

I am a near-individualist, which tends to turn me away from socialist-like parties.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Will"Ideologically, I'm very much a collectivist. I like helping other people, I'm extremely averse to harming other people passively or actively, and I expect the same from other people. I believe in fairness, particularly fairness in competition. I believe in working together for common goals and helping people for the sake of helping them, not for profit or due to threats. These, I think, stem from my humanism.

In practice, however, I'd like to think I only have a passing connection to my ideologies. Politics should never be ideological; politics should be scientific and fact-based. There should be vast equations where the common good is quantifiable and the means to get to the common good can be demonstrated objectively, scientifically. There should be no ego, no subjective opinion, and no self-service in politics. If the best answer to a political question runs against my particular ideologies, then my ideologies are wrong.
Ideologies are simply political stances. It can be as simple as "I believe in liberty"; members of the same ideology can disagree with each other on a wide variety of stances.

I agree that politics should be scientific and fact-based -- your ideology can be based on science and facts, and part of it can be "I believe in science and facts". They aren't mutually exclusive.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Asmodean"I'm a near-anarchist and yet in many ways I support extensive government control.
...What. I don't see how that is even possible.

Whitney

I'm anti-political party...I rarely agree with them enough to feel comfortable using the party label and they give people who affiliate with them an unfair advantage in campaigns.  Also, we should want people to have to research what a candidate's values are rather than making assumptions based on whatever political party is backing them.

I'm pro liberty and personal responsibility however, I also think we need to look out for the "little guy" that does the jobs the rest of us don't want to do.  

I support socialized fire departments, schools (pre-k through bachelors), police departments, public works, and hospitals/preventative care....having such services available to everyone increases the quality of our country by being the only way to ensure that everyone gets a chance to make a good life for themselves; otherwise ghettos remain ghettos forever.  

I think that a federal sales tax would be a lot more fair on everyone rather than taxing income (but would want to see studies on if it could support our government and how it would affect both the rich and poor, and how it would affect the economy before I'd support changing to it). I know some people are against a federal tax all together but there are a lot of things the federal government pays for which I don't think most people would be willing to give up.

I would not allow illegal immigrants access to socialized services unless ethics made it necessary; emergency care should be provided to them just before transporting them back into their country of origin (with instructions/paperwork telling them how they can enter the country legally if they decide to come back)...I'm not against immigration, I just think it is only right to expect that people who want to live here follow the law of the land and not enter the country illegally.  I also think we should make it easier for seasonal workers to legally enter the country (an additional quick to process visa option) for crop harvests and construction since that is the cause of many working illegally in the states.

Anything done to an adult man or woman's body should be their choice and the government shouldn't intervene unless their right to choice needs to be protected.  Children, of course, should also be protected from inappropriate contact but they don't get to decide, for instance, if they get their flu shot or not because they are too young to make a mature decision.

Consenting Adults should be allowed to marry whomever they want whether it be two men, two women, two men and 1 woman, 5 woman and 1 man etc...I don't care it's their business.  Anyone who wants to adopt a child should be allowed provided they don't have a dangerous criminal background.....children will be happy and grow up just find as long as they have a person and/or family that loves them.

I think scientific sex education is a fundamental right that parents shouldn't be allowed to opt out of.  We don't allow religion to trump proper medical care of minors and we shouldn't' allow it to prevent them from knowing about their sexuality and how to be a responsible sexual being.  Anti-Choice supporters should also agree with this since sex education reduces the need for abortions.

Asmodean

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"...What. I don't see how that is even possible.
It's... Weird. And I am the first to admit it.

I am a supporter of "Do what you want", but I also add "...then pay the price" and that is where I would like the government to come in on occasion. Additionally, I like having someone build roads for me and keep the schools and retirement homes running. And rather than donating or some such system, I am happy enough paying taxes... As long as we stop using them on junkies and deadbeats and lazy people and everyone else who has fallen on hard times by their own stupidity or incompetence or way of treating people. (exceptions occur, but are few and far between)

There are also some things which I would very much like a government, namely my own, to keep an eye on for me and my near-anarchist utopia; civilians having firearms, national security and national profit being examples of those.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

LegendarySandwich

I think that socialized services sound great in theory, but in practice they don't work because of people. All government control is ineffective. The only way to stop this is to hugely limit the control the government has over us.

...Of course, I'm open to my opinion being changed on this.

Ultima22689

Left Libertarian here.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Ultima22689"Left Libertarian here.
...There are such things are right libertarians?  :hmm:

Ultima22689

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"
Quote from: "Ultima22689"Left Libertarian here.
...There are such things are right libertarians?  :hmm:

Yes, we are political unicorns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

LegendarySandwich

The Wikipedia articles are kind of confusing; can you explain to me the difference between left and right libertarianism?

Whitney

tea party = right libertarians

(correct?)

LegendarySandwich

I don't think so, Whitney. I think they're more conservative than libertarian.

Ultima22689

Yeah, that thing is kind of confusing. I'll give it a shot.


So i'll start socially, the typical libertarian, in America at least tends to be very right wing while naturally the left libertarian is socially on the left and supports most if not all the social things liberals are going for but you can add axing political correctness to the list, it's starting to get ridiculous, people want to censor everything now and if you so much look at someone the wrong way you've said something offensive or somebody is a racist . Politically, the left libertarian favors smaller government and the private sector but not quite to the level that the standard libertarian does. Meaning, if I were able to mold government to my liking, i'd chuck away the DEA, IRS and do a big drawback on military and i'd probably axe a lot of other bureaucratic crap that's weighing down on the government. We see the good in the free market, America got to where it is today thanks to capitalism, IMHO. Now that doesn't mean I support the market being literally, outright free with little to no regulation. I think at minimum the amount of regulation that Clinton held during his presidency is neccesary, everyone was making money but as soon as Bush got in, deregulated everything a lot of people weren't making money, like the excess outsourcing. The moment Bush dropped a lot of regulation my father lost his job immediately and so did every single one of his coworkers, replaced with Indian immigrants who they paid a fraction of the money they paid the former staff.

As far as things like welfare, public education, medicine,etc. I'm all for public as long as it works, I don't think leaving a portion of the country out to blow in the wind is going to help the country, some very successful, contributing members of society came from a family on welfare. Everyone deserves an education but the education system needs to be revamped, public schooling as is just doesn't work but axing it won't solve a damn thing. As far as medicine is concerned, this all comes back to regulation, if we had the proper amount of regulation AKA clinton era then people would have money and insurance companies wouldn't be charging outrageous rates like they do now and people would be able to afford it. So in a nutshell, support social services, social freedom, within reason the free market and the right to do whatever the hell you want as long as you aren't directly affecting someone else's life.