Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.) I'm looking forward to many stimulating discussions. I'm not sure how to introduce myself since I've lived a somewhat unusual life and perhaps have somewhat strange ideas as a consequence. For starters I was born in one country, left it as soon as possible, was then denaturalised by it, acquired two other nationalities and live in neither of those countries. Probably not the most interesting of stories but it's a start.
ciao,
Attila
How can you be apathetic on this subject? Surely if you think there 'might' be a god you'd do well to hedge your bets to ensure you won't go to Hell? Or maybe you are not sufficiently convinced there is a god and are not prepared to live your life on that assumption. I don't believe there can be such a thing as an Apathetist. If you really didn't give a toss why are you here to discuss the issue?
Welcome to HAF.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 03:25:53 PM
How can you be apathetic on this subject? Surely if you think there 'might' be a god you'd do well to hedge your bets to ensure you won't go to Hell? Or maybe you are not sufficiently convinced there is a god and are not prepared to live your life on that assumption. I don't believe there can be such a thing as an Apathetist. If you really didn't give a toss why are you here to discuss the issue?
Welcome to HAF.
Hi Scissorlegs,
No not really. Sounds like Pascal's bet which I always found bogus. Here's how it goes. I don't like Tony Blair. Ok, Tony Blair "does God". So if there's a Tony-Blair-type-God then I go to hell, right? But what's the alternative? Suck up to a Tony-Blair-type-God and have a miserable life where I hate my hypocritical self?? And how do I "win the bet"? Spend eternity (and that's a loooooong time) with Tony Blair? Nope, I don't think so. The bet is a no-brainer. If hell doesn't have TB then that's better than one with a TB. In any event how could I like a god that wants to be worshipped. I wouldn't tolerate a friend like that let alone a diety. ;D Any other type god probably doesn't give any more of a toss about what I think than I do about him/her/it/them. So I guess I feel totally safe and happy and I'm an old geezer, innt.
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.) I'm looking forward to many stimulating discussions. I'm not sure how to introduce myself since I've lived a somewhat unusual life and perhaps have somewhat strange ideas as a consequence. For starters I was born in one country, left it as soon as possible, was then denaturalised by it, acquired two other nationalities and live in neither of those countries. Probably not the most interesting of stories but it's a start.
ciao,
Attila
This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).
I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 04:25:50 PM
OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).
I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
If God does exist He's has an appaling PR dept. Imagine the conversation "Well the last salesman ended up a Zombie with a God complex, shall we make the next one a pedo?"
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:19:22 PM
This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
You're quite correct. There is a lot of back-story. I'd best wait till I can get onto a regular forum. Although it is not my intention to offend anyone who hasn't had a go a me first, some might take offence so I'd prefer to get a feel for this place before getting into these matters.
I did go to the North-West Amazon basin along the border of Colombia and Brazil when I was 21 (I seem to have a thing with borders :) ) and that changed my view of the world radically. I left the mother country at 25 so a wee bit oder than a baby in nappies.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:19:22 PM
This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
You're quite correct. There is a lot of back-story. I'd best wait till I can get onto a regular forum. Although it is not my intention to offend anyone who hasn't had a go a me first, some might take offence so I'd prefer to get a feel for this place before getting into these matters.
I did go to the North-West Amazon basin along the border of Colombia and Brazil when I was 21 (I seem to have a thing with borders :) ) and that changed my view of the world radically. I left the mother country at 25 so a wee bit oder than a baby in nappies.
ciao,
Attila
Now that I do want to read about. I love to travel but have never done enough of it. Do you ever watch a TV programme called 'Tribe' by a chap called Bruce Perrry?
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 04:25:50 PM
OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).
I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
I'm not sure if the position you describe is meant to be mine but if it is then I've expressed myself badly. I make no assumptions about deities because I have no knowledge or interest in them. If one appeared before me at this moment its mere presence wouldn't change my attitudes about anything one iota. I believe most people would share this view. Suppose you take a born-again "person of faith". Suddenly the deity appears out of a puff of smoke. He/she/it/them addresses the person of faith and says the following, "I do not hate gays!" What is the response of the person of faith? Well simply put, this isn't god because god hates gays. This thing doesn't hate gays therefore it couldn't be god. This is the issue of calibration. Since no deity of any kind has ever been in contact with any human when someone describes "god's will" or what god likes or hates this is just an aberrant form of the 1st person pronoun. Simply put the phrase "God hates gays" means "I hate gays". I conclude that whether or not there is any type of deity would have no effect on anyone. If one emerged people would carry on as they were before. This is what I mean.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:48:44 PM
Now that I do want to read about. I love to travel but have never done enough of it. Do you ever watch a TV programme called 'Tribe' by a chap called Bruce Perrry?
Surely only 2 r's in Perry. :D No, I've not heard of it. Which country does it come from? If you go to google maps you can check out the Papury River which constitutes a tiny part of the border between Colombia and Brazil. There's a tiny little nub of Colombia bounded by the Vaupés and the Papury rivers that sticks into Brazil. That's where I spent time in 1963 and 1965-66. Sad though, I'm sure all my friends from there have been wiped out by now.
ciao,
Attila
There you go 10 posts! You are free to roam and not just sit on the border of the forum! And yes Perry does only have 2 r's. However his name is Parry!
It's a BBC TV series, here's a little sample http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5hUACtoJI
The thing I like about him is that he gets 'stuck in', and does whatever the people he is visiting do such as work, socialising and rituals. He doesn't stand aside, watch and just comment. The telling part is often the tears of the locals when he leaves.
Welcome!
I would consider myself something of an "apatheist", as well. I figure there "might" be a God, but I am pretty certain that there is no Abrahamic God who demands my devotion. So, if the existence of God doesn't require me to actually do anything, I don't really care too much about whether "it" exists.
I think scissorlegs might be a bit confuddled because a lot of people here describe themselves according to Dawkin's scale of belief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on October 09, 2011, 05:16:31 PM
Welcome!
I would consider myself something of an "apatheist", as well. I figure there "might" be a God, but I am pretty certain that there is no Abrahamic God who demands my devotion. So, if the existence of God doesn't require me to actually do anything, I don't really care too much about whether "it" exists.
I think scissorlegs might be a bit confuddled because a lot of people here describe themselves according to Dawkin's scale of belief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability)
We have a thread here Where do you sit on the Dawkins belief scale? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8025.0) which may be of interest.
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 05:14:56 PM
There you go 10 posts! You are free to roam and not just sit on the border of the forum! And yes Perry does only have 2 r's. However his name is Parry!
It's a BBC TV series, here's a little sample http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5hUACtoJI
The thing I like about him is that he gets 'stuck in', and does whatever the people he is visiting do such as work, socialising and rituals. He doesn't stand aside, watch and just comment. The telling part is often the tears of the locals when he leaves.
Thanks Tank. I haven't heard of it before. I left the UK in 1999 (went to China) so I'm not up to date with recent BBC stuff (except for Spooks of course). Thanks for the link and I'll have a look at it.
ciao,
Attila
Another Spooks fan. I can't wait to see who dies at the end of this last series.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on October 09, 2011, 05:16:31 PM
Welcome!
I would consider myself something of an "apatheist", as well. I figure there "might" be a God, but I am pretty certain that there is no Abrahamic God who demands my devotion. So, if the existence of God doesn't require me to actually do anything, I don't really care too much about whether "it" exists.
I think scissorlegs might be a bit confuddled because a lot of people here describe themselves according to Dawkin's scale of belief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability)
Hi DJ,
I doubt it that there's any kind of deity of the kind the would be of interest/concern for less supernatural beings like us. I agree with your reasoning but being natural naughty I try to push things as far as I can and say, suppose there
were an Abrahamic God (AG for short), what material changes would that make in your life, your moral/political/scientific/philosophical thinking? I'm guessing absolutely none. I'm some guy with a beard suddenly appears, walks on water, turns fishes into loaves, and makes pretty sunsets and announces to you, "don't eat eat hummus!" are you really going to stop eating hummus? Of course not. Suppose some girl with a halo and stars around her head says "Don't drink Ribolla Gialla!" Would you pay her the slightest attention? Of course not. If one is looking for a purpose in life I'd offer (a) have fun (b) gain knowledge (c) share.
ciao,
Attila
Welcome!
I'm another who's traveled quite a bit in my youth (and feel like I'm from nowhere). I live in Brazil, though not on any notable border.... ;D
Why did you travel around so much?
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2011, 06:15:14 PM
Welcome!
I'm another who's traveled quite a bit in my youth (and feel like I'm from nowhere). I live in Brazil, though not on any notable border.... ;D
Why did you travel around so much?
Hi SP,
Where in Brasil? I've taught at Campinas and Belo Horizonte and gave some lectures in Rio and São Paulo. I haven't been there since the mid 90's though. I move around a lot because I have one life to live and it's a big world out there. Each people have their own charm and are worth knowing. I also get bored easily. :P I travel a lot because of my work (even now that I'm retired I still get around.)
Até logo,
Attila
I'm an apatheist concerning the deist god and think that all the religious gods are made up.
Welcome to the forum. As my bio describes, I am also an apatheist. Unlike scissorlegs, I agree with you that it is a tenable position, obviously (I find it amusing when someone tries to tell me I "can't be something" because they have a different opinion).
You've got quite the background. To say you've been around would be an understatement! Hope you enjoy our little corner of the webs.
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.)
Welcome! I suppose I could be considered a borderline apatheist since my opinion on the existence of a god is "I don't know, and I don't care", except that the emphasis for me is on the "I don't know". If I
did know it's possible I might care.
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 05:47:09 PM
Another Spooks fan. I can't wait to see who dies at the end of this last series.
I love
Spooks but they don't play any of the current episodes were I am, I have to wait for them to come out on DVD.
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 06:38:35 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2011, 06:15:14 PM
Welcome!
I'm another who's traveled quite a bit in my youth (and feel like I'm from nowhere). I live in Brazil, though not on any notable border.... ;D
Why did you travel around so much?
Hi SP,
Where in Brasil? I've taught at Campinas and Belo Horizonte and gave some lectures in Rio and São Paulo. I haven't been there since the mid 90's though. I move around a lot because I have one life to live and it's a big world out there. Each people have their own charm and are worth knowing. I also get bored easily. :P I travel a lot because of my work (even now that I'm retired I still get around.)
Até logo,
Attila
I live in Porto Alegre, but am originally from Brasilia. ;D
Pardon my curiosity, but what did you teach?
I moved around a lot growing up because of my father's job, and I miss all the novelty terribly and have grown bored of this place and people, (who really aren't all they say they are in other areas of Brazil ;) ). I've been stuck in Porto Alegre for a few years now, and yearn for something else. :-\
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.) I'm looking forward to many stimulating discussions. I'm not sure how to introduce myself since I've lived a somewhat unusual life and perhaps have somewhat strange ideas as a consequence. For starters I was born in one country, left it as soon as possible, was then denaturalised by it, acquired two other nationalities and live in neither of those countries. Probably not the most interesting of stories but it's a start.
ciao,
Attila
I actually re-registered to ask you why, if your position on the existence of god is one of "don't care", you'd be actively seeking debate on an atheist forum? I think you do care?
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on October 09, 2011, 10:52:06 PM
I actually re-registered to ask you why, if your position on the existence of god is one of "don't care", you'd be actively seeking debate on an atheist forum? I think you do care?
To toss in my own opinion on this, it's not just about debating (I don't do much debating myself), it a matter of community with the like-minded as well.
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on October 09, 2011, 10:52:06 PM
I actually re-registered to ask you why, if your position on the existence of god is one of "don't care", you'd be actively seeking debate on an atheist forum? I think you do care?
Hi N&C,
That's quite a reasonable question. If I were immodest I would refer you to my other thread on in the religion section but as I'm not I'll try to briefly answer your query here.
1. Since the existence or non-existence of some god-like entity has no interest nor relevance to me, it is not a point I would wish to debate. Logically then I should not go around calling myself an atheist since that invites discussion on that very topic. I don't want to hear about idiotic pronouncement about "the meaning of life", or beautiful sunsets or the restrained understated strains of the Polish band Behemoth. What is there really to discuss? Since I am a rationalist, I believe nothing on faith and will always adopt a position contrary to mine if the evidence supports it. This is why there can be no dialogue with "people of faith" since they will not admit the possibility that they are wrong. So I'm interested if my position is a known one already or if I am somehow weird (doesn't bother me, I am weird) and the only one who thinks that way. If people disagree, which I enjoy because that's how I learn stuff, then I'm quite keen to hear their position for purely selfish reasons of self-improvement even at my age. ;)
2. As I've said before I'm quite prepared to debate the issue as to whether there has ever been any deity-human contact (I'll take the negative please :)) I am persuaded that I could convince any "person of evidence" who has any doubts about the matter. "People of faith", by definition, are not worth talking to about this since they believe they cannot be wrong about it. I did once engage a couple of kids doing a door-to-door about the Jehovah's Witnesses or some such group. They wanted to tell me some good news and I suggested that I had even better news. If they had evidence that their news was better than mine then I would convert but... if I had better evidence that they would immediately renounce their god and be born again as rationalists. At that point they called their supervisor who came in about 5 minutes to explain to me that they were only young beginners and weren't really up to this kind of thing.
Anyway, I'm flattered that you think my mutterings are worth re-registering for. I hope I haven't disappointed you. If my answer is unsatisfactory please let me know (and why) and I'll either be convinced by you or express myself better and more completely.
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 09, 2011, 09:36:07 PM
Welcome! I suppose I could be considered a borderline apatheist since my opinion on the existence of a god is "I don't know, and I don't care", except that the emphasis for me is on the "I don't know". If I did know it's possible I might care.
Hi BCE,
I am a cat cohabiter (can't say "owner" with respect to cats) and lover too. The problem with the god-question is how you would be recognise it if you came across it. For example, if I convinced you that the Cosmic microwave background spectrum from the Milky Way is actually god purring, what would your reaction be? In fact, there really is this background spectrum so why can't it be god? End of story, right? Do you have any further info about god?
QuoteI love Spooks but they don't play any of the current episodes were I am, I have to wait for them to come out on DVD.
Actually you don't. ;) Nuf said.
Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
Attila
PD:
QuoteTo toss in my own opinion on this, it's not just about debating (I don't do much debating myself), it a matter of community with the like-minded as well.
Excellent point but also of community with the un-like-minded. Life would be too boring without debate.
A
Quote from: Attila on October 10, 2011, 01:37:26 PM
I am a cat cohabiter (can't say "owner" with respect to cats) and lover too.
Definitely not -- dogs have owners, cats have staff.
QuoteThe problem with the god-question is how you would be recognise it if you came across it.
Which is how we end up going 'round and 'round arguing about it with the religious. They're convinced they've recognized god and we're convinced we haven't and generally we don't think they have either.
QuoteFor example, if I convinced you that the Cosmic microwave background spectrum from the Milky Way is actually god purring, what would your reaction be? In fact, there really is this background spectrum so why can't it be god? End of story, right? Do you have any further info about god?
Altho I do like the idea of god being a cat, it's rather mindblowing trying to imagine what evidence you would provide to convince me that the CMBS is anything purring and not just some weird, random effect. There's an awful lot of weird shit in the universe after all. However, thinking about the possibility that I
was convinced it was god purring, it seems likely I still wouldn't care since the only useful thing to know about a god is what it wants, and it doesn't seem to me any more possible to know what purring cat god wants than what the Xtian god wants, supposing it turns out to actually exist.
QuoteQuoteI love Spooks but they don't play any of the current episodes were I am, I have to wait for them to come out on DVD.
Actually you don't. ;) Nuf said.
Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
Are we speaking of pirating because I avoid that on the assumption that I'm the one person who's going to get caught.
QuotePD: QuoteTo toss in my own opinion on this, it's not just about debating (I don't do much debating myself), it's a matter of community with the like-minded as well.
Excellent point but also of community with the un-like-minded. Life would be too boring without debate.
A
True, but I pick and choose with debates a lot more than with general chit-chat. Too many debates seem to me nothing more than mental masturbation and I'm usually not up for that.
Quote from: Attila on October 10, 2011, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on October 09, 2011, 10:52:06 PM
I actually re-registered to ask you why, if your position on the existence of god is one of "don't care", you'd be actively seeking debate on an atheist forum? I think you do care?
Hi N&C,
That's quite a reasonable question. If I were immodest I would refer you to my other thread on in the religion section but as I'm not I'll try to briefly answer your query here.
1. Since the existence or non-existence of some god-like entity has no interest nor relevance to me, it is not a point I would wish to debate. Logically then I should not go around calling myself an atheist since that invites discussion on that very topic. I don't want to hear about idiotic pronouncement about "the meaning of life", or beautiful sunsets or the restrained understated strains of the Polish band Behemoth. What is there really to discuss? Since I am a rationalist, I believe nothing on faith and will always adopt a position contrary to mine if the evidence supports it. This is why there can be no dialogue with "people of faith" since they will not admit the possibility that they are wrong. So I'm interested if my position is a known one already or if I am somehow weird (doesn't bother me, I am weird) and the only one who thinks that way. If people disagree, which I enjoy because that's how I learn stuff, then I'm quite keen to hear their position for purely selfish reasons of self-improvement even at my age. ;)
2. As I've said before I'm quite prepared to debate the issue as to whether there has ever been any deity-human contact (I'll take the negative please :)) I am persuaded that I could convince any "person of evidence" who has any doubts about the matter. "People of faith", by definition, are not worth talking to about this since they believe they cannot be wrong about it. I did once engage a couple of kids doing a door-to-door about the Jehovah's Witnesses or some such group. They wanted to tell me some good news and I suggested that I had even better news. If they had evidence that their news was better than mine then I would convert but... if I had better evidence that they would immediately renounce their god and be born again as rationalists. At that point they called their supervisor who came in about 5 minutes to explain to me that they were only young beginners and weren't really up to this kind of thing.
Anyway, I'm flattered that you think my mutterings are worth re-registering for. I hope I haven't disappointed you. If my answer is unsatisfactory please let me know (and why) and I'll either be convinced by you or express myself better and more completely.
Ciao,
Attila
In answer to your question, are you the only person that really doesn't care about the existence or none existence of God? The answer is no. You are not unique, there are others.
I know this to be true because on a football forum I use, on the off topic section there is quite often a religion debate, and one of the members on there will jump on any religion based thread - not to tell us that he is an atheist or a theist, or to discuss the points raised - but to tell us that he simply doesn't care. Every single time. So there you go. I find this odd and have challenged him, like I did you.
See I don't care about Motorbikes, and because of this you'll never see me on a Motorbike forum. I don't care about Rugby, you'll never find me telling a Rugby forum that I don't care about Rugby. I don't care about Tapestry, so you will never find me on a Tapestry forum telling people that I don't want to discuss Tapestry.
As for what you could call yourself, should you care enough to label it, I'd call you an apatheist. You are also an atheist if you care so little about god that you don't claim he is real.
QuoteI often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
Scissorlegs: I really like this line. Made me smile. Thanks!
Quote from: McQ on October 09, 2011, 07:59:48 PM
Welcome to the forum. As my bio describes, I am also an apatheist. Unlike scissorlegs, I agree with you that it is a tenable position, obviously (I find it amusing when someone tries to tell me I "can't be something" because they have a different opinion).
You've got quite the background. To say you've been around would be an understatement! Hope you enjoy our little corner of the webs.
Hi McQ,
I'm having fun already. A great bunch of people here with enough different points of view to keep things lively. Really outstanding.
Thanks for the welcome.
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2011, 10:19:45 PM
I live in Porto Alegre, but am originally from Brasilia. ;D
Hi again silver,
Brasilia!!! I bet I was there before you. :P I spent a couple of days there in 1965. I still remember the name of the hotel. "Hotel das Nações" I wonder if it still exists. In those days Brasilia was a massive construction site and all the civil servants flew back to Rio for the weekend.
QuotePardon my curiosity, but what did you teach?
No need for pardon, we're friends so ask whatever you like. :)
I taught (retired now but still direct PhD theses from around the world) theoretical linguistics.
QuoteI moved around a lot growing up because of my father's job, and I miss all the novelty terribly and have grown bored of this place and people, (who really aren't all they say they are in other areas of Brazil ;) ). I've been stuck in Porto Alegre for a few years now, and yearn for something else. :-\
Ah the Nordeste. I've never been there but always wished I had had the chance. It seems like very interesting place in general but I confess I don't know anything about Porto Alegre but my heart remains in Amazonas -- tenho saudade de chibé.
Ciao (Tchao?)
Attila
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 05:14:56 PM
There you go 10 posts! You are free to roam and not just sit on the border of the forum! And yes Perry does only have 2 r's. However his name is Parry!
It's a BBC TV series, here's a little sample http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5hUACtoJI
The thing I like about him is that he gets 'stuck in', and does whatever the people he is visiting do such as work, socialising and rituals. He doesn't stand aside, watch and just comment. The telling part is often the tears of the locals when he leaves.
Bruce Parry's brilliant, one of the best things on TV in the past 10 years. He comes accross as being really interesting and open minded, and also a really nice guy too. I loved watching him take various mind altering plants and getting down with the shamen in various tribes. His show on the Arctic was excellent too, the Siberian summer solstice rituals and celebrations looked amazing.
I like his religious views too. He's described himself with,
'I'd pretty much known all along that Christianity wasn't for me. Ever since then, I've been on my own quest to find another truth. I can't read novels, but I do read books about cosmology, about astrophysics, about genetics. I'm interested in altered states of mind, and creation myths. It's all part of the same thing - I want to know why we think what we think. Now, I'd describe myself as pan-deist, reluctantly verging on atheist.'
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 05:57:09 PM
If one is looking for a purpose in life I'd offer (a) have fun (b) gain knowledge (c) share.
Sounds pretty spot on to me, welcome to the forum Attila
Quote from: Norfolk And Chance on October 10, 2011, 08:58:14 PM
...
In answer to your question, are you the only person that really doesn't care about the existence or none existence of God? The answer is no. You are not unique, there are others.
I know this to be true because on a football forum I use, on the off topic section there is quite often a religion debate, and one of the members on there will jump on any religion based thread - not to tell us that he is an atheist or a theist, or to discuss the points raised - but to tell us that he simply doesn't care. Every single time. So there you go. I find this odd and have challenged him, like I did you.
That certainly doesn't describe me so I don't that we (me and them) are starting from the same position. I participate in many forums, mostly technical, and I have absolutely no desire to discuss such matters. I do believe that messages about the relevance of the existence of a deity are appropriate in an Atheist themed forum. If the general consensus is that my remarks are inappropriate here I'll happily withdraw. So far much of the response to my postings has been reasonably positive.
QuoteSee I don't care about Motorbikes, and because of this you'll never see me on a Motorbike forum. I don't care about Rugby, you'll never find me telling a Rugby forum that I don't care about Rugby. I don't care about Tapestry, so you will never find me on a Tapestry forum telling people that I don't want to discuss Tapestry.
I think that is an entirely reasonable position but I don't think that it is the case here. There are two reasons for this claim:
(1) On virtually every issue involving of religion in public life I will be indistinguishable from atheists. When speaking to theists they invariably group me with atheists.
(2) Whilst no one is has either motorbikes or ruby forced upon them (except me because my GF is partly Welsh and there's no living with her these days. ;)) every one of us is affected by the influence of the "faithful" in our lives and usually completely against our will. As I kid I was subjected to rather unpleasant experiences and my kids who had to go to a confessional school (RC in their case) likewise suffered abuse there. So issues about religion deeply affect each of us willy-nilly.
(3) I am very curious about why someone who does not accept any religious artefacts into their life would care about whether there is a god or not assuming the notion of "god" is at all meaningful. This forum gives me the opportunity to pose these questions and maybe learn something.
QuoteAs for what you could call yourself, should you care enough to label it, I'd call you an apatheist. You are also an atheist if you care so little about god that you don't claim he is real.
The problem with apatheist is twofold: anything with a negative prefix a- (such as atheist) ought to have a counterpart without the a-. Is there are patheist? I don't think so. :P Secondly "apathetic" sounds bad with or without the a- so I would tend to avoid it.
I'll end with a question: if you believe that there is no god, what is the definition of this god that you don't believe in?
Thanks again for the discussion. Most stimulating.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Too Few Lions on October 11, 2011, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 05:57:09 PM
If one is looking for a purpose in life I'd offer (a) have fun (b) gain knowledge (c) share.
Sounds pretty spot on to me, welcome to the forum Attila
Hi TFL,
Thanks for the kind words and the heads-up about Tribes. I will give it a try and report back and Parry sounds like fun.
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 04:05:59 PM
No not really. Sounds like Pascal's bet which I always found bogus. Here's how it goes. I don't like Tony Blair. Ok, Tony Blair "does God". So if there's a Tony-Blair-type-God then I go to hell, right? But what's the alternative? Suck up to a Tony-Blair-type-God and have a miserable life where I hate my hypocritical self?? And how do I "win the bet"? Spend eternity (and that's a loooooong time) with Tony Blair? Nope, I don't think so. The bet is a no-brainer. If hell doesn't have TB then that's better than one with a TB. In any event how could I like a god that wants to be worshipped. I wouldn't tolerate a friend like that let alone a diety. ;D Any other type god probably doesn't give any more of a toss about what I think than I do about him/her/it/them. So I guess I feel totally safe and happy and I'm an old geezer, innt.
I've always thought the same thing, I really couldn't imagine anything worse than spending eternity with a bunch of devout Christians or Muslims. Never mind all that fire and torture baloney,
that would be my idea of hell!
I've always thought Pascal wasn't very clever, because he didn't seem to realise that his wager only involved one god, the Christian one. If he'd been a little bit smarter he'd have realised that he's only backing one horse in a race of thousands. If any of the other gods are the real gods and not the Christian one, he's just as screwed as if he'd been an atheist. He probably should have embraced Hinduism, at least he'd have backed more than one theistic horse in the race!
I think you can be an atheist and an apathe(t)ist at the same time. I don't believe in any gods but I don't have a problem with the idea of gods per se. I dislike Christianity and Islam, but I quite like Zeus, Dionysos and Apollo, and am pretty apathetic towards a more abstract deist idea of god. I don't think any such god would give a toss if I believed in it or not, just like I don't give a toss if the ants in my garden believe in me.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on October 11, 2011, 02:48:46 PM
I've always thought the same thing, I really couldn't imagine anything worse than spending eternity with a bunch of devout Christians or Muslims. Never mind all that fire and torture baloney, that would be my idea of hell!
I dislike Christianity and Islam
Naughty naughty TFL! What are you, antisemitic?!?! I wouldn't want to spend eternity with devout Jews either. And in all fairness I dislike Judaism just as much as Christianity and Islam!
Quotebut I quite like Zeus, Dionysos and Apollo, and am pretty apathetic towards a more abstract deist idea of god. I don't think any such god would give a toss if I believed in it or not, just like I don't give a toss if the ants in my garden believe in me.
As a kid, I was reading about Zeus and the other guys and girls. I got totally turned off them when I read the story about Prometheus and leaned what a complete bastard Zeus was. Getting your liver eaten day after day is not a barrel of laughs and remember, TFL, he was on
our side, godammit! We gotta support our own, right! Also no Prometheus, no "C'mon baby light my fire"!
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 11, 2011, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on October 11, 2011, 02:48:46 PM
I've always thought the same thing, I really couldn't imagine anything worse than spending eternity with a bunch of devout Christians or Muslims. Never mind all that fire and torture baloney, that would be my idea of hell!
I dislike Christianity and Islam
Naughty naughty TFL! What are you, antisemitic?!?! I wouldn't want to spend eternity with devout Jews either. And in all fairness I dislike Judaism just as much as Christianity and Islam!
fair point, the god of the OT is a total wanker, and I wouldn't want to spend any time in the company of devout Jews, with their silly skull caps and hair tassles. But I guess I just have less of a problem with Jews because they don't have a long and bloody history of proselytising and forcibly converting non-believers or killing them. The attrocious actions of Israel against the Palestinians aside, the Jews generally just seem to happily keep to themselves in their deluded belief that they're the chosen people of Yahweh, and the rest of us don't really matter.
QuoteQuotebut I quite like Zeus, Dionysos and Apollo, and am pretty apathetic towards a more abstract deist idea of god. I don't think any such god would give a toss if I believed in it or not, just like I don't give a toss if the ants in my garden believe in me.
As a kid, I was reading about Zeus and the other guys and girls. I got totally turned off them when I read the story about Prometheus and leaned what a complete bastard Zeus was. Getting your liver eaten day after day is not a barrel of laughs and remember, TFL, he was on our side, godammit! We gotta support our own, right! Also no Prometheus, no "C'mon baby light my fire"!
Think I've always liked Zeus because he was such a naughty little slut! Fair point about Prometheus though, I've always liked him too. In some of the Greek accounts he was crucified by Zeus for being the saviour of humanity. sounds a bit familiar...
Quote from: Attila on October 11, 2011, 10:36:54 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 09, 2011, 10:19:45 PM
I live in Porto Alegre, but am originally from Brasilia. ;D
Hi again silver,
Brasilia!!! I bet I was there before you. :P I spent a couple of days there in 1965. I still remember the name of the hotel. "Hotel das Nações" I wonder if it still exists. In those days Brasilia was a massive construction site and all the civil servants flew back to Rio for the weekend.
You were there when it was being built then, that's interesting :P
Hotel das Nações still exists, I know it hosts all sorts of international events. Way out of my financial league, however...
QuoteAh the Nordeste. I've never been there but always wished I had had the chance. It seems like very interesting place in general but I confess I don't know anything about Porto Alegre but my heart remains in Amazonas -- tenho saudade de chibé.
Ciao (Tchao?)
Attila
Nordeste? Porto Alegre is in the southernmost state. The only place I've visited in the Nordeste is Rio Grande do Norte. Amazonas seems interesting, I love rainforests, but I don't think I could handle the weather very well.
Tchau ;D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 11, 2011, 05:26:25 PM
You were there when it was being built then, that's interesting :P
Hotel das Nações still exists, I know it hosts all sorts of international events. Way out of my financial league, however...
It's probably out of my league too now but then... it was quite affordable. I was travelling on a research fellowship so I didn't have a big budget.
QuoteNordeste? Porto Alegre is in the southernmost state. The only place I've visited in the Nordeste is Rio Grande do Norte. Amazonas seems interesting, I love rainforests, but I don't think I could handle the weather very well.
Tchau ;D
arrrghh. I am so stupid. Sorry about that. :-[ :-[ :-[
Tchau,
Attila
Hi, Atilla, I beat you to the forum by only a couple of days. The people here are pretty nice, even though I'm a theist. I like the "spirit" here, if you will pardon the expression. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? I'm 59, and have traveled a good bit myself, but I've never been an expatriate as you seem to be. I look forward to reading what you have to say.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 12, 2011, 02:05:33 AM
Hi, Atilla, I beat you to the forum by only a couple of days. The people here are pretty nice, even though I'm a theist. I like the "spirit" here, if you will pardon the expression. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? I'm 59, and have traveled a good bit myself, but I've never been an expatriate as you seem to be. I look forward to reading what you have to say.
Bondi (as we say around here) Bruce,
Yes, I completely agree about the vibes here. Quite fun. :) I am 10 years your senior (born March 1942). I have never thought of myself as an expat since have absolutely no ties to my country of birth (not a matter of my choosing in any event) and the time I passed there is now only a vague an unpleasant memory. I do hold two passports but that was the most a could manage up to now. I'd have 100 if it were feasible. As for what I have to say, you've seen a sample in another thread and kindly responded. I've never really had much of a discussion with a theist before (they usually come knocking at my front door telling me that the have some good news...and then they don't :'() so I'm quite looking forward to it.
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 11, 2011, 05:42:35 PM
arrrghh. I am so stupid. Sorry about that. :-[ :-[ :-[
Tchau,
Attila
Doesn't matter, just don't ever let the locals here ever catch you confusing them with the northeasterns. ;) They...don't take too well to that sort of thing... :-X
You're a linguist...do you know by any chance if there's any semblance of what could be called grammar to the babblings some call 'speaking in tongues'?
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 07:05:30 AM
Quote from: Attila on October 11, 2011, 05:42:35 PM
arrrghh. I am so stupid. Sorry about that. :-[ :-[ :-[
Tchau,
Attila
Doesn't matter, just don't ever let the locals here ever catch you confusing them with the northeasterns. ;) They...don't take too well to that sort of thing... :-X
You're a linguist...do you know by any chance if there's any semblance of what could be called grammar to the babblings some call 'speaking in tongues'?
When I was at the University of Toronto (1967-74) I had a colleague named William Samarin. I learned the technical term "glossolalia" for speaking in tongues. He even had tapes of people doing it. You can doubtless find numerous account of it by googling "glossolalia". My own opinion, fwiw, is that glossolalia certainly has patterns but nothing resembling in any way, shape or form, human language. I don't believe that recursion (a formal property common to all human languages) is present in glossolalia. If you want more detailed info let me know.
Tchau,
Attila
@ Attila
At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 09:14:21 AM
@ Attila
At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.
Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. ;)
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to. :'(
Ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 09:14:21 AM
@ Attila
At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.
Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. ;)
What a great way to feel about life, I so hope I'm like you in 30 years time (if I'm still alive...)
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 09:14:21 AM
@ Attila
At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.
Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. ;)
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to. :'(
Ciao,
Attila
It's not the grope that's the problem but the gender of the groper! This is what I don't get. I think one should be able to choose the gender of the security guard (groper) who pats one down. I'd be far happier with a lady than a bloke and isn't customer satisfaction paramount? :)
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 09:14:21 AM
@ Attila
At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.
Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. ;)
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to. :'(
Ciao,
Attila
It's not the grope that's the problem but the gender of the groper! This is what I don't get. I think one should be able to choose the gender of the security guard (groper) who pats one down. I'd be far happier with a lady than a bloke and isn't customer satisfaction paramount? :)
Hi Tank,
I've come back from the dead, or rather the banned. My research collaborator and close friend happens to be gay. I had a long discussion with him about airport groping and presented him with a suggestion: think about why men are chosen to hand search men and women are chosen to do it to other women (hmmm actually I'm only assuming that, can anybody confirm that this is how it's done?). Anyway assuming that's true the assumption is that there should be no sexual undertones to the groping and the default assumption is that everyone is heterosexual. Ok following this line of logic then, as I explained to my friend, gay men must be groped by lesbian women and vice versa and then any sexual connotation thus eliminated. His reaction? he pissed himself laughing. Maybe I'll suggest this idea at the airport airport. I'm crazy enough to do it. Once I got into big trouble at Heathrow for asking if passing my hand luggage through the x-ray machine would harm my pet hamster. They have no sense of humour those people.
Ciao,
Attila
I can confirm that men pet down men and women pat down women at airport security the last time I flew. But I don't see why I shouldn't choose or equally it shouldn't matter who pats down whom. I mean lets face it when in hospital one generally does not choose the gender of one's doctor and there are loads of straight male gynocologists. And I've had my back passage probed by a female doctor and an endoscope passed down my penis by a female technician, while being watched by a mixed bag of students.
Quote from: Tank on October 12, 2011, 06:02:56 PM
I can confirm that men pet down men and women pat down women at airport security the last time I flew. But I don't see why I shouldn't choose or equally it shouldn't matter who pats down whom. I mean lets face it when in hospital one generally does not choose the gender of one's doctor and there are loads of straight male gynocologists. And I've had my back passage probed by a female doctor and an endoscope passed down my penis by a female technician, while being watched by a mixed bag of students.
I agree but if they are going this route then they should follow their own path to its logical conclusion. I'd prefer your system (anyone pats down anyone) but who'd listen to either of us.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 07:05:30 AM
Quote from: Attila on October 11, 2011, 05:42:35 PM
arrrghh. I am so stupid. Sorry about that. :-[ :-[ :-[
Tchau,
Attila
Doesn't matter, just don't ever let the locals here ever catch you confusing them with the northeasterns. ;) They...don't take too well to that sort of thing... :-X
You're a linguist...do you know by any chance if there's any semblance of what could be called grammar to the babblings some call 'speaking in tongues'?
When I was at the University of Toronto (1967-74) I had a colleague named William Samarin. I learned the technical term "glossolalia" for speaking in tongues. He even had tapes of people doing it. You can doubtless find numerous account of it by googling "glossolalia". My own opinion, fwiw, is that glossolalia certainly has patterns but nothing resembling in any way, shape or form, human language. I don't believe that recursion (a formal property common to all human languages) is present in glossolalia. If you want more detailed info let me know.
Tchau,
Attila
That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. :-\
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. :-\
Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 06:50:15 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. :-\
Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila
Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but then if people are generating sort of languages with some grammatical structure then that could suggest that there's something innate to it all, but since it's probably not even associated with the brain region responsible for it, if it exists, then it not having any structure that could be called grammatical doesn't make it any more interesting. It just looks like someone making it all up based on babbling that sound like words.
What intrigued me is that people who do speak in tongues say they loose a sense of control over it, as if it wasn't coming from them. I was just wondering because when you watch videos of people doing that on YouTube, when you aren't laughing at them, it does sound a bit like an ordered string of sounds. Even though very simple.
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 06:06:57 AM
Yes, I completely agree about the vibes here. Quite fun. :) I am 10 years your senior (born March 1942).
You must be pretty close to being the elder statesman around here. Hope I am still coherent at 69 (sometimes I wonder if I am at 59). I've never been to Brasil - hope to make it soon. (I suppose that anything I do must be relatively soon - that holds double for you!)
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 08:34:47 PM
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 06:50:15 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 12, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. :-\
Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila
Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but then if people are generating sort of languages with some grammatical structure then that could suggest that there's something innate to it all,
Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.
Quotebut since it's probably not even associated with the brain region responsible for it, if it exists, then it not having any structure that could be called grammatical doesn't make it any more interesting. It just looks like someone making it all up based on babbling that sound like words.
I think that that is pretty close to the truth.
QuoteWhat intrigued me is that people who do speak in tongues say they loose a sense of control over it, as if it wasn't coming from them. I was just wondering because when you watch videos of people doing that on YouTube, when you aren't laughing at them, it does sound a bit like an ordered string of sounds Even though very simple..
Again, you're spot on! :) It's pretty much "unga unga bunga" or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001 (http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001)
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 13, 2011, 03:22:37 AM
Quote from: Attila on October 12, 2011, 06:06:57 AM
Yes, I completely agree about the vibes here. Quite fun. :) I am 10 years your senior (born March 1942).
You must be pretty close to being the elder statesman around here. Hope I am still coherent at 69 (sometimes I wonder if I am at 59). I've never been to Brasil - hope to make it soon. (I suppose that anything I do must be relatively soon - that holds double for you!)
Yo Bruce!
I don't think "elder statesman" suits me. The myth is you get over your youthful exuberance and settle down to a sober, respectable existence with advancing age. It doesn't work that way (at least for me). At least I hope not. Tell if me if I'm wrong. ;D Any yes, Brasil is great fun (or was) but start out in a place like Belo Horizonte or Porto Alegre (ask xSilverPhinx about it). Avoid touristy areas. Manaus used to be a totally cool place but I think it's fucked up now (what they call "modernised") which is a great loss for humanity.
Above all, have fun ;) (my main purpose in life)
ciao,
Attila
Quote from: Attila on October 13, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.
Again, you're spot on! :) It's pretty much "unga unga bunga" or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001 (http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001)
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila
I think it is an interesting topic. ;D My niece, who is a month over 2, gaining more and more complex conceptualizations, which reflect in her way of speaking. It's something interesting to see unfold.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 13, 2011, 11:05:25 AM
Quote from: Attila on October 13, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.
Again, you're spot on! :) It's pretty much "unga unga bunga" or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001 (http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001)
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila
I think it is an interesting topic. ;D My niece, who is a month over 2, gaining more and more complex conceptualizations, which reflect in her way of speaking. It's something interesting to see unfold.
It could be the topic for you 2nd (3rd? 4th?) PhD thesis. Language acquisition begins around the 2-year mark which is also when the first memories start (at least in my case). There's surely a tie-in between the onset of language and long-term memory.
ciao,
Attila
PhD...I don't know what I would do with the thing (I'm a college dropout, having even take a course or two in basic linguistics). I just find these things interesting in their own sake.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 13, 2011, 09:27:38 PM
PhD...I don't know what I would do with the thing (I'm a college dropout, having even take a course or two in basic linguistics). I just find these things interesting in their own sake.
That just proves again the lack of correlation between quantity of education and intelligence. :) You can always work on a book. I'd read it fwiw.
ciao,
Attila