So, on saturday i was at a school function with a "friend" who is christian. I don't remember how things led up to this, but he just said completely bluntly "You're going to hell". I don't normally get mad about a religious debate, but for some reason that just got me really angry. The fact that he really truely believes that just blows my mind how naive someone can be. To accuse me of going to eternal misery just because I don't believe in his god. He's atheist to all the other religions gods, i just go one god further. I got that from Richard Dawkins if anyone didn't know that xD But anyway, am I right to be this mad about this? Obviously I'm not going to punch the kid, I'm just agitated. All i said after that was "it's people like you..." and i couldn't finish it because there wasn't really any one thing i could say at the moment. So yea. Has anything like this happened to anyone else, and what were your reactions?
I get told that by my family, but I know the motivation behind there saying it is based on love. It annoys me in that situation, but doesn't piss me off.
From what you described, it sounds like he said it out of anger, hate, or due to losing the argument. I think you're justified in being annoyed with him and commend you for leaving it where you did.
Nope never, but I would embrace it if it ever did happen and give me some excuse to insult and offend them to the best of my ability, which is something I never do intentionally but actually very good at doing so. Perhaps I may just give a smile with a sparkle in my eye and say "yes, yes I am", and hopefully that would freak the nutter out.
"Oh I'm going to Hell? Well, I will make sure to save a spot for you. ;)"
IMO you're perfectly justified to be really pissed off. I just ignore such comments though, like you said, they come off as incredibly naive and really not worth bothering about.
Ah, the Christian Trump Card. When you lose a debate/can't back up your assertions with facts/feel butthurt that someone isn't immediately taken with your special friend, just threaten hell. That'll shut 'em up!
Quote from: Xiilent on March 27, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
Has anything like this happened to anyone else, and what were your reactions?
Never happened to me, but I remember hearing a bible-thumper on a bus saying it to another passenger. I wish I could remember the reply word for word, because it was quite funny, but it was something to do with him being too busy shaking hands with all his friends and family to be sorry about it.
I do have a reply ready tho: "yes, I know. I'm Satan's pastry chef."
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 27, 2012, 12:57:50 AM
"Oh I'm going to Hell? Well, I will make sure to save a spot for you. ;)"
"Oh. Well, bring BBQ sauce."
"You're going to hell, you know."
"I would rather spend eternity writhing in the agony of hellfire than in the company of a God who would inflict that on others."
If someone said it out of 'love' as in, "I believe you're going to hell but I really don't want to you!" I'd be able to have a talk with them, no problem. Having been Christian, I know where that mentality comes from. If someone said "you're going to hell" in judgement, anger, etc, my response would be somewhere along the lines of "According to the world's many different religions, we're all going to someone's hell. You too. Maybe I'll see you in one of them! I'll wave hi if I see you!"
Long ago, I exchanged serious debate and taking offense to just simple snark and sarcasm. :)
Quote from: Melmoth on March 27, 2012, 07:29:43 AM
"You're going to hell, you know."
"I would rather spend eternity writhing in the agony of hellfire than in the company of a God who would inflict that on others."
Yep. If given the choice to be one of the 'damned', or to fall at the feet of the one doing the damning and worship him, I'll take the first option. I'd be in good company. Some of the world's kindest, smartest, most loving people would be there getting damned with me. Go figure!
Misunderstand me correctly, but I would rather be a friend of Satan then a servant of Yahwee.
Quote from: Xiilent on March 27, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
So, on saturday i was at a school function with a "friend" who is christian. I don't remember how things led up to this, but he just said completely bluntly "You're going to hell". I don't normally get mad about a religious debate, but for some reason that just got me really angry. The fact that he really truely believes that just blows my mind how naive someone can be. To accuse me of going to eternal misery just because I don't believe in his god. He's atheist to all the other religions gods, i just go one god further. I got that from Richard Dawkins if anyone didn't know that xD But anyway, am I right to be this mad about this? Obviously I'm not going to punch the kid, I'm just agitated. All i said after that was "it's people like you..." and i couldn't finish it because there wasn't really any one thing i could say at the moment. So yea. Has anything like this happened to anyone else, and what were your reactions?
People react differently, and I, for one, have no trouble laughing it off. However, for personal satisfaction, I would consider insulting the asshole in a few very creative ways.
...or tell them that hell is a place reserved solely for assholes who tell others that they're going there.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on March 27, 2012, 11:25:41 AM
...or tell them that hell is a place reserved solely for assholes who tell others that they're going there.
I prefer my version.
"Yup. Going straight to hell. And there, I shall have me a job of roasting people like you on a spit. Forever. :D "
Quote from: Asmodean on March 27, 2012, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on March 27, 2012, 11:25:41 AM
...or tell them that hell is a place reserved solely for assholes who tell others that they're going there.
I prefer my version.
"Yup. Going straight to hell. And there, I shall have me a job of roasting people like you on a spit. Forever. :D "
It would be a brave and foolish Christian who'd tell the Asmo he's going to hell. I imagine they'd be the first to get impaled on your spit, and rightly so.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 27, 2012, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on March 27, 2012, 11:25:41 AM
...or tell them that hell is a place reserved solely for assholes who tell others that they're going there.
I prefer my version.
"Yup. Going straight to hell. And there, I shall have me a job of roasting people like you on a spit. Forever. :D "
Nice comeback! ;D
If someone said that to me in anger, I'd probably respond with "So are you!". And if that didn't shock them into silence, I might just say "It's obvious that you don't quite "believe" enough. God knows when you doubt, you know. I think you're going to fail his test." And that should pretty much make them paranoid and insane for a little bit.
It's kind of an asshole move, but if someone's trying to act like a bully, I have no problem acting like an asshole.
Now, for your average, mostly-well intentioned, "I'll pray for you", etc. I just ignore that. It really depends on the intentions of the person.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 27, 2012, 03:50:39 PM
Now, for your average, mostly-well intentioned, "I'll pray for you", etc. I just ignore that. It really depends on the intentions of the person.
I tend to say "Heh... That's gonna be the mother of all prayers... Good luck with that! Remember to eat and sleep once in a while."
Quote from: Asmodean on March 27, 2012, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 27, 2012, 03:50:39 PM
Now, for your average, mostly-well intentioned, "I'll pray for you", etc. I just ignore that. It really depends on the intentions of the person.
I tend to say "Heh... That's gonna be the mother of all prayers... Good luck with that! Remember to eat and sleep once in a while."
:D
"You're going to hell!!"
"So are you. You're not a Muslim either."
Quote from: Tank on March 27, 2012, 06:30:21 PM
"You're going to hell!!"
"So are you. You're not a Muslim either."
Hahaha, this is my fav come back so far!! :)
I also would probably bring up how they are not worshipping the right god, and then smile very cheshire like.
First, "If I have to go to hell because I do not believe in the god like that, I will be happy to. I would rather stay away from him. Any place without that kind of god is heaven ."
Second, "Yeah. I will send my soul to the hell and I will let my body do whatever I want in this world."
Long time ago, I was in a train station. A guy approached an old lady (looked older than 70) right by me and told her something like this, "Repent and and come to Jesus. Or you will go to hell". I guess a lot of those christians are just plain stupid or senseless. I would never say something like that to an old folks like her.
Quote from: reddevil0126 on March 27, 2012, 09:41:52 PM
First, "If I have to go to hell because I do not believe in the god like that, I will be happy to. I would rather stay away from him. Any place without that kind of god is heaven ."
Second, "Yeah. I will send my soul to the hell and I will let my body do whatever I want in this world."
Long time ago, I was in a train station. A guy approached an old lady (looked older than 70) right by me and told her something like this, "Repent and and come to Jesus. Or you will go to hell". I guess a lot of those christians are just plain stupid or senseless. I would never say something like that to an old folks like her.
Yeah, it's sad that people are arrogant and senseless, all at once. It makes so many assumptions to walk up to ANYONE and say that... but when it's an elderly person, I find that particularly rude because geeze, they've lived their life, they've probably survived some VERY tough times, they've possibly raised a family, they've certainly contributed to their community -- and yet some people think they're still somehow responsible for telling them what to think or believe. This mentality is exactly why I don't try to sway my own elderly family members in their beliefs. I assume that after 70 or 80+ years (87 for the oldest, actually), they've thought all the religion and philosophy through pretty damned thoroughly and whatever they believe at this point, they must want to and/or need to, so they're more than welcome to.
Most everyone here has a place confirmed at God's eternal barbecue. We also don't care because such a belief is laughable. I'd have shaken my head at your friend and said something like "You poor, deluded schmuck."
Then we'd have gone out for a beer so I could hear more about the unending torment for which I was destined. I'd have gotten a good laugh out of it. ;D
Quote from: Amicale on March 27, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: reddevil0126 on March 27, 2012, 09:41:52 PM
First, "If I have to go to hell because I do not believe in the god like that, I will be happy to. I would rather stay away from him. Any place without that kind of god is heaven ."
Second, "Yeah. I will send my soul to the hell and I will let my body do whatever I want in this world."
Long time ago, I was in a train station. A guy approached an old lady (looked older than 70) right by me and told her something like this, "Repent and and come to Jesus. Or you will go to hell". I guess a lot of those christians are just plain stupid or senseless. I would never say something like that to an old folks like her.
Yeah, it's sad that people are arrogant and senseless, all at once. It makes so many assumptions to walk up to ANYONE and say that... but when it's an elderly person, I find that particularly rude because geeze, they've lived their life, they've probably survived some VERY tough times, they've possibly raised a family, they've certainly contributed to their community -- and yet some people think they're still somehow responsible for telling them what to think or believe. This mentality is exactly why I don't try to sway my own elderly family members in their beliefs. I assume that after 70 or 80+ years (87 for the oldest, actually), they've thought all the religion and philosophy through pretty damned thoroughly and whatever they believe at this point, they must want to and/or need to, so they're more than welcome to.
Only someone will truly NO sense would say that to an elderly person. :/
That really pisses me off.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 01:39:23 AM
Quote from: Amicale on March 27, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: reddevil0126 on March 27, 2012, 09:41:52 PM
First, "If I have to go to hell because I do not believe in the god like that, I will be happy to. I would rather stay away from him. Any place without that kind of god is heaven ."
Second, "Yeah. I will send my soul to the hell and I will let my body do whatever I want in this world."
Long time ago, I was in a train station. A guy approached an old lady (looked older than 70) right by me and told her something like this, "Repent and and come to Jesus. Or you will go to hell". I guess a lot of those christians are just plain stupid or senseless. I would never say something like that to an old folks like her.
Yeah, it's sad that people are arrogant and senseless, all at once. It makes so many assumptions to walk up to ANYONE and say that... but when it's an elderly person, I find that particularly rude because geeze, they've lived their life, they've probably survived some VERY tough times, they've possibly raised a family, they've certainly contributed to their community -- and yet some people think they're still somehow responsible for telling them what to think or believe. This mentality is exactly why I don't try to sway my own elderly family members in their beliefs. I assume that after 70 or 80+ years (87 for the oldest, actually), they've thought all the religion and philosophy through pretty damned thoroughly and whatever they believe at this point, they must want to and/or need to, so they're more than welcome to.
Only someone will truly NO sense would say that to an elderly person. :/
That really pisses me off.
Once, I did something truly evil. The same two Mormon boys had come to my door for a few days running, so I gave them my elderly Catholic grandfather's address. Then I called my gramps and told him the boys were on the way. And they WERE boys -- maybe 16, 17, they looked like. In other words, I was feeding the lambs to the lion. In my defense, I'd tried being polite, tried being nice, then tried being firm, and they still weren't getting it. So... off they went. They had a man born in 1925 sit them down, and tell them what was what. No tablets, no Moroni, no nothing. They got told to stay in school, to knock off their bullshit, to work hard, to quit bothering people, and finally, to get the hell out.
I'm told their only response to the above was "yes sir!" as they booked it down the driveway.
Haha, I think I'd like your grandfather!
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 02:51:40 AM
Haha, I think I'd like your grandfather!
Eh, I'll say this for him. I love him, I respect him, but he can truly be a hardass in a lot of ways. He just happened to be one in the right way that day, as I knew he would be. ;)
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 02:53:10 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 02:51:40 AM
Haha, I think I'd like your grandfather!
Eh, I'll say this for him. I love him, I respect him, but he can truly be a hardass in a lot of ways. He just happened to be one in the right way that day, as I knew he would be. ;)
That sounds amazing xD
The Asmo's friends tend to send religious door-knockers to The Asmo, but, apparently, many of those types know each other and therefor know that The Asmo is to be avoided as even gazing upon His Grayness can cost you a ticket to heaven.
Times like this I like to use their Bible against them.
Matthew 7:1-5. "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
Luke 6:37. "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;"
John 8:7. "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
Those three or any number of other passages would make a point. The six denominations I attended frequently once upon a time all taught that judgment is reserved only for God. We cannot determine heaven or hell for someone.
Quote from: fester30 on March 28, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
John 8:7. "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
...so any one who does not acknowledge the concept of sin can throw stones with his blessing. :D
HEY! The Book(tm) says atheists can legally stone people! :D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 28, 2012, 04:16:35 AM
Quote from: fester30 on March 28, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
John 8:7. "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
...so any one who does not acknowledge the concept of sin can throw stones with his blessing. :D
HEY! The Book(tm) says atheists can legally stone people! :D
I never read it that way! Awesome!
Pessimistic
Hell?
Where already in hell, lady!
Optimistic
No more guilt just pure pleasures of hell, I'm looking forward to that.
Dirty Harry style
I know what you're thinking: "10,000 religions, is Christianity the right one?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being that you are judged by god, the most powerful entity in the universe, and would blow your soul to hell, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well do ya, punk?
Narcissistic
I don't go to hell, Hell comes to me.
The hospitable host
Me casa su casa
Quote from: Asmodean on March 28, 2012, 04:16:35 AM
Quote from: fester30 on March 28, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
John 8:7. "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
...so any one who does not acknowledge the concept of sin can throw stones with his blessing. :D
HEY! The Book(tm) says atheists can legally stone people! :D
Lol!!
Exactly. I don't believe in the sin myth, so i can throw away. :)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 05:45:57 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 28, 2012, 04:16:35 AM
Quote from: fester30 on March 28, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
John 8:7. "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
...so any one who does not acknowledge the concept of sin can throw stones with his blessing. :D
HEY! The Book(tm) says atheists can legally stone people! :D
Lol!!
Exactly. I don't believe in the sin myth, so i can throw away. :)
Except it'd be a cold day in hell, pardon the pun, before I'd bet that anyone on this site would ever WANT to stone that woman even if we could. Go figure. :P
QuoteRe: Im going to hell
Oh good, I've been waiting for someone making a trip there.
Can you pick me up a new hell snow globe?
I had the one with Lucifer poking priests with his pitchfork and the falling cinders.
Damn it, virgin sacrifices are so flighty these days, flailing about breaking your stuff.
Oh and don't forget to ask for your 20% HAF discount.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 28, 2012, 06:44:47 AM
QuoteRe: Im going to hell
Oh good, I've been waiting for someone making a trip there.
Can you pick me up a new hell snow globe?
I had the one with Lucifer poking priests with his pitchfork and the falling cinders.
Damn it, virgin sacrifices are so flighty these days, flailing about breaking your stuff.
Oh and don't forget to ask for your 20% HAF discount.
I would like some ice coffee. I have a "buy one, get one half off" coupon. :)
:D hahaha.
Is it just me, or is puddin' extra funny today?
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 05:26:18 AM
The hospitable host
Me casa su casa
Best answer ever.
DJ - Pudding is extra funny every day.
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 05:26:18 AM
The hospitable host
Me casa su casa
Best answer ever.
DJ - Pudding is extra funny every day.
I usually avoid the odd numbered days because they are disconcertingly pointy.
Quote from: Xiilent on March 27, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
So, on saturday i was at a school function with a "friend" who is christian. I don't remember how things led up to this, but he just said completely bluntly "You're going to hell". I don't normally get mad about a religious debate, but for some reason that just got me really angry. The fact that he really truely believes that just blows my mind how naive someone can be. To accuse me of going to eternal misery just because I don't believe in his god. He's atheist to all the other religions gods, i just go one god further. I got that from Richard Dawkins if anyone didn't know that xD But anyway, am I right to be this mad about this? Obviously I'm not going to punch the kid, I'm just agitated. All i said after that was "it's people like you..." and i couldn't finish it because there wasn't really any one thing i could say at the moment. So yea. Has anything like this happened to anyone else, and what were your reactions?
I don't quite get why the typical Atheist takes this so personally. It seems to me that by doing so, one puts more weight on the side of the belief rather on the side of rational thinking. If Christianity is based on the whims of our own delusions in our mind, then why does it matter so much if one person or even a group of persons say/think *you're going to hell?
The reward of heaven is not based on being good, nor is hell's citizenship based on being bad.
AD, no matter how much "weight" we give to the belief, in that context, it's just not a nice thing to say.
If you and I were in an argument and I angrily said "you're going to get raped by goblins tonight!" It's mean. It doesn't make it true, but it's still a mean thing to say.
Edit: there's a difference between implying or calmly stating that you believe in hell and throwing it at someone in anger. I don't really blame Christians for the first scenario, but I do for the second. Anyone can control how they talk to someone and how they handle differing beliefs or conflict.
Exactly, Juliet. If I see a person with a Labour Party badge in their lapel, am I entitled to tell them they're a goddam commy who is destroying the country? Even though I just know it's true?
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 06:23:43 PM
AD, no matter how much "weight" we give to the belief, in that context, it's just not a nice thing to say.
If you and I were in an argument and I angrily said "you're going to get raped by goblins tonight!" It's mean. It doesn't make it true, but it's still a mean thing to say.
To me, this is not quite the same...but then again, I'm not on the receiving side in the context of Christian to Atheist. To me, ultimately, the Christian (wrong in their approach, I admit) is simply stating a fact according to Christian belief...and one that even the Atheist doesn't deny...that being that death comes to all. (What
Hell is, is highly debated among Christians. To me, it's not a place of perpetual pain and suffering, but simply the place that
ends life for eternity.)
Rape does not come to all, which is why I would suggest the analogy doesn't fit...IMHO.
Quote from: OldGit on March 28, 2012, 06:29:33 PM
Damn, another double post.
I'm having issues with double posts or not posting at all :( !
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 06:23:43 PM
AD, no matter how much "weight" we give to the belief, in that context, it's just not a nice thing to say.
If you and I were in an argument and I angrily said "you're going to get raped by goblins tonight!" It's mean. It doesn't make it true, but it's still a mean thing to say.
To me, this is not quite the same...but then again, I'm not on the receiving side in the context of Christian to Atheist. To me, ultimately, the Christian (wrong in their approach, I admit) is simply stating a fact according to Christian belief...and one that even the Atheist doesn't deny...that being that death comes to all. (What Hell is, is highly debated among Christians. To me, it's not a place of perpetual pain and suffering, but simply the place that ends life for eternity.)
Rape does not come to all, which is why I would suggest the analogy doesn't fit...IMHO.
I could have the belief that goblins rape anyone who doesn't follow the same religion that I do.
And, again, the "fact" isn't an excuse. You can use facts in an aggressive way. It might be a "fact" that your father died from lung cancer (I have no idea if that's true, so forgive me if it is). I can gently say in a conversation "your father died from lung cancer...", or, if I'm mad, I can shout "Your father is dead!". Same fact. One delivery is kind, one delivery is mean. The intent matters.
That's if we take it from a Christian perspective that it is a "fact", but even if it isn't (to an atheist), it's pretty hard to pretend that there isn't intention behind the delivery.
We're still humans, you know. We can tell if someone is trying to be nasty to us.
I remember a retort we used to like to say back when I was in High School. Can be used with "Go to Hell" as well as "You're going to hell."
"I've already been, I didn't like your mother's cooking."
:D
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 06:49:48 PM
That's if we take it from a Christian perspective that it is a "fact", but even if it isn't (to an atheist), it's pretty hard to pretend that there isn't intention behind the delivery.
We're still humans, you know. We can tell if someone is trying to be nasty to us.
I'm happy to admit the "meaness" of stating the fact according to Christian belief in the manner some do. My point is that both the Atheist and the Christian do NOT disagree on their mortality or it's eternal implication either by Christian reckoning or by Atheist understanding of death. One acknowledges death as eternal without need of a God and the other acknowledges death as eternal without God. The place is the same.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 07:31:55 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 06:49:48 PM
That's if we take it from a Christian perspective that it is a "fact", but even if it isn't (to an atheist), it's pretty hard to pretend that there isn't intention behind the delivery.
We're still humans, you know. We can tell if someone is trying to be nasty to us.
I'm happy to admit the "meaness" of stating the fact according to Christian belief in the manner some do. My point is that both the Atheist and the Christian do NOT disagree on their mortality or it's eternal implication either by Christian reckoning or by Atheist understanding of death. One acknowledges death as eternal without need of a God and the other acknowledges death as eternal without God. The place is the same.
I agree with that assessment, but I don't think that's what this post was originally getting at. I think the OP posted because they were a bit upset and felt attacked
personally.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
I agree with that assessment, but I don't think that's what this post was originally getting at. I think the OP posted because they were a bit upset and felt attacked personally.
Maybe my bias is causing me to be insensitive to this, but I still cannot see why anyone would be offended by being told they are going to a place that doesn't exist.
Quote from: OldGit on March 28, 2012, 06:29:33 PM
Damn, another double post.
It's the condemnation committee,
we they have to record all the incriminating stuff.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
I agree with that assessment, but I don't think that's what this post was originally getting at. I think the OP posted because they were a bit upset and felt attacked personally.
Maybe my bias is causing me to be insensitive to this, but I still cannot see why anyone would be offended by being told they are going to a place that doesn't exist.
Again, I'm not worried about actually going to Hell, but when someone says something that I know they perceive to be threatening to me, it typically gets my dander up. Let's say that instead of saying "You're going to hell" they said "That smart mouth of yours is going to get your ass kicked one of these days." Both are intended to be threatening. I don't like being threatened, even if I don't actually believe that what the person is threatening will occur.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 07:36:12 PM
I agree with that assessment, but I don't think that's what this post was originally getting at. I think the OP posted because they were a bit upset and felt attacked personally.
Maybe my bias is causing me to be insensitive to this, but I still cannot see why anyone would be offended by being told they are going to a place that doesn't exist.
AD you really do demonstrate a complete lack of empathy at times. Body language, verbal intonation, context and content are all part of a message that can be sympathetic
or aggressive. You often appear to be incapable of understanding this. Do you understand that the intent of aggression can be given and received almost irrespective of the words said?
For example, "You're a fucking wanker!" Is this a nice or nasty thing to say to somebody?
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 07:53:53 PM
Again, I'm not worried about actually going to Hell, but when someone says something that I know they perceive to be threatening to me, it typically gets my dander up. Let's say that instead of saying "You're going to hell" they said "That smart mouth of yours is going to get your ass kicked one of these days." Both are intended to be threatening. I don't like being threatened, even if I don't actually believe that what the person is threatening will occur.
Don't take this as me being argumentative or insensitive, but I'm still lost on this. It's just not something I am yet able to grasp...about being angry or threatened by something that WILL NOT happen! I mean, it is your belief (non-belief) that God does not exist. The typical stance is that the believer is deluded (the nice type of being deluded) and that God and even more so, the Bible is a set of fairytales at best. It's like me being offended by a person of the Flat Earth belief "threatening" me that if I keep running or driving east, I'll drop off the earth into an oblivion and die...it's just not something I believe will happen...it's no threat to me. A smart-ass mouth WILL get one's ass kicked sooner or later...the threat/warning is real.
If my perception was that being beat to death by a cooked wet noodle to be the most excruciating painful death known to man, would your dander be up in the same manner?
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
If my perception was that being beat to death by a cooked wet noodle to be the most excruciating painful death known to man, would your dander be up in the same manner?
If you used this to subtextually assert that you are better then the person you are saying it to, or that this person deserves being beaten to death with a wet noodle (having a little problem with picturing this, but still...) then it would certainly be a reason to be upset. Not because you think it's going to happen but because the person saying this thinks it should happen.
It's basically this person stating: "I am better then you! You deserve nasty things because you are not as good as me!" And that can be very aggravating.
Quote from: Guardian85 on March 28, 2012, 08:33:46 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
If my perception was that being beat to death by a cooked wet noodle to be the most excruciating painful death known to man, would your dander be up in the same manner?
If you used this to subtextually assert that you are better then the person you are saying it to, or that this person deserves being beaten to death with a wet noodle (having a little problem with picturing this, but still...) then it would certainly be a reason to be upset. Not because you think it's going to happen but because the person saying this thinks it should happen.
It's basically this person stating: "I am better then you! You deserve nasty things because you are not as good as me!" And that can be very aggravating.
I think the whole "deserves" part of it is part of what grinds, for sure.
First of all, AD, not all Christians take the belief that hell is simply death without god. Many actually do believe that Hell is a place of eternal torment, and they are usally the ones that use hell as a threat. I have actually heard "Christians" say such things as "I am looking forward to when you atheists burn in hell,. I wish I could watch." That's not really a simple "factual" statement, that is "You're going to be tortured for eternity, you deserve to be tortured for eternity, and the concept of you being tortured for eternity fills me with glee." If someone is meaning to be nasty, the message comes across loud and clear.
Quote from: Guardian85 on March 28, 2012, 08:33:46 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
If my perception was that being beat to death by a cooked wet noodle to be the most excruciating painful death known to man, would your dander be up in the same manner?
If you used this to subtextually assert that you are better then the person you are saying it to, or that this person deserves being beaten to death with a wet noodle (having a little problem with picturing this, but still...) then it would certainly be a reason to be upset. Not because you think it's going to happen but because the person saying this thinks it should happen.
It's basically this person stating: "I am better then you! You deserve nasty things because you are not as good as me!" And that can be very aggravating.
So it's not so much the "You're going to hell" as it is their apparent placement of themselves above you...? You're saying that because they think themselves better, it upsets you?
Quote from: Guardian85 on March 28, 2012, 08:33:46 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
If my perception was that being beat to death by a cooked wet noodle to be the most excruciating painful death known to man, would your dander be up in the same manner?
If you used this to subtextually assert that you are better then the person you are saying it to, or that this person deserves being beaten to death with a wet noodle (having a little problem with picturing this, but still...) then it would certainly be a reason to be upset. Not because you think it's going to happen but because the person saying this thinks it should happen.
It's basically this person stating: "I am better then you! You deserve nasty things because you are not as good as me!" And that can be very aggravating.
This. Telling someone they're going to hell, or that they should go to hell, or that they deserve to go to hell wouldn't be taken by an atheist to be LITERALLY true, as we don't believe hell exists, but the sentiment behind it that we generally read into it is: you deserve to be punished and tormented, I think you're evil, I think I'm better than you in some way, etc. We don't take offense because we believe hell is real; if anything, we get miffed because really, where does ANYONE get off, wishing for/predicting eternal damnation/torture/agony for someone else? That would be like me coming up to you and saying "I hope someone attacks you/your wife/your daughter in a dark alley. And I hope they never stop." It's besides the point that in all likelihood, nobody will ever brutally beat your family in an alley. The point is, why would I hate someone so much to say that to them?
And before someone says "there's a difference between saying 'I love you and I believe you'll go to hell if you don't change your mind' and 'Go burn in hell [insert expletive here]'/'you deserve to burn in hell'... absolutely, there is. And it's that second, violent reaction that ticks me off.
An old girlfriend of mine was pagan (still is, probably, but we lost track of each other), and whenever someone would mock her beliefs and tell her she was going to hell, or that she deserved to go there, her response was always "it's your hell, YOU burn in it". ;)
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 08:38:40 PM
First of all, AD, not all Christians take the belief that hell is simply death without god. Many actually do believe that Hell is a place of eternal torment, and they are usally the ones that use hell as a threat. I have actually heard "Christians" say such things as "I am looking forward to when you atheists burn in hell,. I wish I could watch." That's not really a simple "factua;" statement, that is "You're going to be tortured for eternity, you deserve to be tortured for eternity, and the concept of you being tortured for eternity fills me with glee." If someone is meaning to be nasty, the message comes across loud and clear.
First, I don't think those kind of threats come at a whim, or if they do, it is a reaction to the manner in which the stereotypical Atheist (Dawkins) is towards the believer(s). I don't mean to harp on this point so much, but again, if one just browses the Image threads here, one gets the impression that the Atheist hates Christians and their god...in fact, many have openly said they hate this god and mock "him" as if he does exist...this is simply to point out a position of "norm" for the outspoken Atheist.
So like Guardian above, it's not so much the "going to hell" aspect as it is the intentional hope to see one suffer?
I've spoken to a lot of you HAF'ers and I would venture to say that close to 100% of you understand the hypocrisy in most Christians that spout this hatred. I would simply giggle at their idiocy all the while thinking to myself, "heh...if I do go to hell, the funny thing is that keeping that sort of thinking will have your end right next to me..." or simply utter that "fact".
They think hell is a bad place.
They get angry.
They tell you that you are going to a bad place because they are angry.
This is not nice.
Seriously, even if, for whatever reason, you don't "feel" like you get it, can you not, logically, understand why people would perceive it this way?
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
This. Telling someone they're going to hell, or that they should go to hell, or that they deserve to go to hell wouldn't be taken by an atheist to be LITERALLY true, as we don't believe hell exists, but the sentiment behind it that we generally read into it is: you deserve to be punished and tormented, I think you're evil, I think I'm better than you in some way, etc. We don't take offense because we believe hell is real; if anything, we get miffed because really, where does ANYONE get off, wishing for/predicting eternal damnation/torture/agony for someone else? That would be like me coming up to you and saying "I hope someone attacks you/your wife/your daughter in a dark alley. And I hope they never stop." It's besides the point that in all likelihood, nobody will ever brutally beat your family in an alley. The point is, why would I hate someone so much to say that to them?
And before someone says "there's a difference between saying 'I love you and I believe you'll go to hell if you don't change your mind' and 'Go burn in hell [insert expletive here]'/'you deserve to burn in hell'... absolutely, there is. And it's that second, violent reaction that ticks me off.
I'm going to venture and again say, I don't think this type of reaction from a Christian towards the Atheist/unbeliever is the "first" reaction one gets, but rather the reaction that stems from context...an Atheist rally where the delusion or even stupidity of the believer is brought forward, the disregard for that which the believer deems "holy" that the Atheist does not respect at all...many reasons.
Quote from: AmicaleAn old girlfriend of mine was pagan (still is, probably, but we lost track of each other), and whenever someone would mock her beliefs and tell her she was going to hell, or that she deserved to go there, her response was always "it's your hell, YOU burn in it". ;)
And to me, this is the best reaction. There's really no reason to get "your dander up" from a few words of an empty, meaningless threat.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 08:54:17 PM
They think hell is a bad place.
They get angry.
They tell you that you are going to a bad place because they are angry.
This is not nice.
Seriously, even if, for whatever reason, you don't "feel" like you get it, can you not, logically, understand why people would perceive it this way?
I get it's not nice. Not much uttered in anger is nice. I suppose it's just odd to me that one could be so bothered by something that is of fairytale and not real. A person hoping another suffers is not nice. Hoping I walk, run, drive, or fly off the edge of the earth to my death is not something that would bother me. It's something I'd find humor in.
I'll leave it at something that just makes me wonder if the Atheist is giving too much credit where there should be no credit.
Hopefully my confusion doesn't cause frustration to flare with me. I apologize for not being able to see the connection so clear, but I do see the spirit of this is not nice.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
This. Telling someone they're going to hell, or that they should go to hell, or that they deserve to go to hell wouldn't be taken by an atheist to be LITERALLY true, as we don't believe hell exists, but the sentiment behind it that we generally read into it is: you deserve to be punished and tormented, I think you're evil, I think I'm better than you in some way, etc. We don't take offense because we believe hell is real; if anything, we get miffed because really, where does ANYONE get off, wishing for/predicting eternal damnation/torture/agony for someone else? That would be like me coming up to you and saying "I hope someone attacks you/your wife/your daughter in a dark alley. And I hope they never stop." It's besides the point that in all likelihood, nobody will ever brutally beat your family in an alley. The point is, why would I hate someone so much to say that to them?
And before someone says "there's a difference between saying 'I love you and I believe you'll go to hell if you don't change your mind' and 'Go burn in hell [insert expletive here]'/'you deserve to burn in hell'... absolutely, there is. And it's that second, violent reaction that ticks me off.
I'm going to venture and again say, I don't think this type of reaction from a Christian towards the Atheist/unbeliever is the "first" reaction one gets, but rather the reaction that stems from context...an Atheist rally where the delusion or even stupidity of the believer is brought forward, the disregard for that which the believer deems "holy" that the Atheist does not respect at all...many reasons.
This IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction. Save me from "Christians" like that. :P
If anything, it made me shake my head and roll my eyes, but I've got a pretty thick skin. It mostly surprised me. I live in a country where marriage equality has been fully legal for several years now.
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 09:14:47 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
This. Telling someone they're going to hell, or that they should go to hell, or that they deserve to go to hell wouldn't be taken by an atheist to be LITERALLY true, as we don't believe hell exists, but the sentiment behind it that we generally read into it is: you deserve to be punished and tormented, I think you're evil, I think I'm better than you in some way, etc. We don't take offense because we believe hell is real; if anything, we get miffed because really, where does ANYONE get off, wishing for/predicting eternal damnation/torture/agony for someone else? That would be like me coming up to you and saying "I hope someone attacks you/your wife/your daughter in a dark alley. And I hope they never stop." It's besides the point that in all likelihood, nobody will ever brutally beat your family in an alley. The point is, why would I hate someone so much to say that to them?
And before someone says "there's a difference between saying 'I love you and I believe you'll go to hell if you don't change your mind' and 'Go burn in hell [insert expletive here]'/'you deserve to burn in hell'... absolutely, there is. And it's that second, violent reaction that ticks me off.
I'm going to venture and again say, I don't think this type of reaction from a Christian towards the Atheist/unbeliever is the "first" reaction one gets, but rather the reaction that stems from context...an Atheist rally where the delusion or even stupidity of the believer is brought forward, the disregard for that which the believer deems "holy" that the Atheist does not respect at all...many reasons.
This IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction. Save me from "Christians" like that. :P
If anything, it made me shake my head and roll my eyes, but I've got a pretty thick skin. It mostly surprised me. I live in a country where marriage equality has been fully legal for several years now.
I stand corrected. Obviously a Christian legalist.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
To me, this is not quite the same...but then again, I'm not on the receiving side in the context of Christian to Atheist. To me, ultimately, the Christian (wrong in their approach, I admit) is simply stating a fact according to Christian belief...and one that even the Atheist doesn't deny...that being that death comes to all.
You play your naive card way too much.
Would you like it if someone comes up to you and tells you that you are going to die?
Would you take this as a threat?
Even though it is true, you will die someday.
A Christian that says "you are going to hell" is a person that is making threats. This person either deserves a punch in the face or a STFU! Certainly this behaviour should not be tolerated. People don't behave like this in my society, I don't see why it is tolerated in USA.
I have been taught that it is best to speak from the "I". With this approach the Christian ought to say "I am going to live forever" rather than saying "You are going to hell".
Of course the "I am going to live forever" sounds like the speaker has a few screws loose, but none the less, this is what the Christian believes.
Quote from: AmicaleThis IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction. Save me from "Christians" like that. :P
If anything, it made me shake my head and roll my eyes, but I've got a pretty thick skin. It mostly surprised me. I live in a country where marriage equality has been fully legal for several years now.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt
I stand corrected. Obviously a Christian judgemental, ignorant homophobic asshole legalist.
I fixed it for you. We wouldn't want to insult normal legalists, or people who actually practiced the religion of Christianity. ;)
A threat is a threat,,emoty or not. It is still not a nice thing at all to say to another human being.
Telling someone they are going to burn in hell cuz of their sexual preference, race, religion (or non beliefs) is still a fucked up thing.
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 09:14:47 PM
This IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction.
Quick question for you, Amicale.
Did it come across as aggressive and threatening, like I imagine it would have
OR
did it come across as lovingly concerned, like AD imagines it would have?
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 09:21:36 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
To me, this is not quite the same...but then again, I'm not on the receiving side in the context of Christian to Atheist. To me, ultimately, the Christian (wrong in their approach, I admit) is simply stating a fact according to Christian belief...and one that even the Atheist doesn't deny...that being that death comes to all.
You play your naive card way too much.
I suppose I'm just not as well informed as you. I apologize for my naivety.
Quote from: StevilWould you like it if someone comes up to you and tells you that you are going to die?
Would you take this as a threat?
Even though it is true, you will die someday.
Not in the context of one belief to another...one stance on life vs. the opposite stance (e.g. God exists vs. God does not exist) So, no, I wouldn't care much.
Quote from: StevilA Christian that says "you are going to hell" is a person that is making threats. This person either deserves a punch in the face or a STFU! Certainly this behaviour should not be tolerated. People don't behave like this in my society, I don't see why it is tolerated in USA.
Your society is much better then.
Quote from: StevilI have been taught that it is best to speak from the "I". With this approach the Christian ought to say "I am going to live forever" rather than saying "You are going to hell".
Of course the "I am going to live forever" sounds like the speaker has a few screws loose, but none the less, this is what the Christian believes.
So then a Christian that says to you, "I'm going to live forever." in the same tone as "You're going to hell." is acceptable and does not promote a reason to be bothered by the belief?
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 09:41:30 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 09:14:47 PM
This IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction.
Quick question for you, Amicale.
Did it come across as aggressive and threatening, like I imagine it would have
OR
did it come across as lovingly concerned, like AD imagines it would have?
Amicale had not expressed that situation when I made my point, but I acknowledged I was wrong after she did...but it's no surprise you'd see it different, Stevil.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 09:42:25 PM
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 09:21:36 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
To me, this is not quite the same...but then again, I'm not on the receiving side in the context of Christian to Atheist. To me, ultimately, the Christian (wrong in their approach, I admit) is simply stating a fact according to Christian belief...and one that even the Atheist doesn't deny...that being that death comes to all.
You play your naive card way too much.
I suppose I'm just not as well informed as you. I apologize for my naivety.
Again the naive card.
You know what I mean, and yet...
To be perfectly clear, I believe you are well aware of what you are doing, but you do it in a guise, and then come up with naive excuses. You aren't that short sighted AD. I believe you are much smarter than sometime you would lead me to believe.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 09:42:25 PM
So then a Christian that says to you, "I'm going to live forever." in the same tone as "You're going to hell." is acceptable and does not promote a reason to be bothered by the belief?
It would be much more palatable, non threatening, non projecting of their belief onto me. I would like this person as opposed to how I would feel about the alternative person, making the threats.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 09:34:47 PM
A threat is a threat,,emoty or not. It is still not a nice thing at all to say to another human being.
Telling someone they are going to burn in hell cuz of their sexual preference, race, religion (or non beliefs) is still a fucked up thing.
It may not be nice, I agree, but it's also not real...the weight one puts on empty threats is what I'm questioning more. Why would the more rational person be angered or bothered by a non-existent certain type of death? I've gathered that it is not so much the threat of hell, but rather simply the ill-tempered thoughts from one human to another. I'm simply being honest, SD. I wondered why a fairytale ending bothers the Atheist...that's all.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on March 28, 2012, 09:44:26 PM
Amicale had not expressed that situation when I made my point, but I acknowledged I was wrong after she did...but it's no surprise you'd see it different, Stevil.
Why did Amicale fix your acknowledgment?
Was it broken?
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 09:41:30 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 09:14:47 PM
This IS the first reaction I've gotten on occasion. In public. From people who didn't know me. On one such occasion, my apparent crime was holding someone's (girlfriend's) hand as we walked down the street, and I got "you people fucking disgust me, you're godless heathens and I hope you know you deserve to burn in hell." I hadn't mocked them, attacked them, or even knew they were "Christian". Yet somehow by walking down a public sidewalk, I managed to scare/disgust them enough to get that reaction.
Quick question for you, Amicale.
Did it come across as aggressive and threatening, like I imagine it would have
OR
did it come across as lovingly concerned, like AD imagines it would have?
I'm sure AD couldn't possibly find the above threat lovingly concerned. :D
And yes, it definitely came off as aggressive. Some would have said threatening, for sure. I was feeling less threatened than disgusted and embarassed for that idiot's sake, but there's no way it could have come off as loving.
All this being said, in my entire life, I've only had 2 or 3 things like that yelled at me, and one was entirely expected, seeing as I was part of a pride parade and figured the protesters would be out and about. I'm sure that having crud like that yelled isn't the norm for most people, and I'm sure that most Christians are more mellow about it, at least until you deliberately tick them off in a debate. ;)
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 10:21:44 PM
I'm sure AD couldn't possibly find the above threat lovingly concerned. :D
Let's put it another way.
Has anyone felt warm fuzzies about the loving concerned offered when a person has told them they are going to hell?
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 10:21:44 PM
I'm sure AD couldn't possibly find the above threat lovingly concerned. :D
Let's put it another way.
Has anyone felt warm fuzzies about the loving concerned offered when a person has told them they are going to hell?
When I was a teenager and I was going through a strong phase of severe doubt, my mom (who was much more Christian at the time than she is now) was literally so worried for my soul that she broke down sobbing, telling me I was loved and she didn't want me in hell one day. That really tore me up, seeing her in so much pain. I knew how much she loved me, and wasn't angry with her for believing what she did. I just felt sorry for her, that she'd even think that. So nope, no warm fuzzies. Either love and pity for someone like her, or annoyance for prettymuch anyone else!
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 10:38:08 PM
telling me I was loved and she didn't want me in hell one day
This is different to asserting "You are going to hell"
But wow what a story. These beliefs really screw with people's minds.
Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 28, 2012, 10:38:08 PM
telling me I was loved and she didn't want me in hell one day
This is different to asserting "You are going to hell"
But wow what a story. These beliefs really screw with people's minds.
It's devastating how much these people believe this carp.
I'm sorry you went through that experience. I went through a similar exp with my dad saying he was worried about my soul, but god is allowing me time to come back to him. I wanted to kick him in the face. This is my biggest problem with children and religious parents. It is depressing. We completely don't talk anymore these days. I got sick of his "god is responsible for everything good" view of life.
Ye those christians may seem angry but look at it from their side.
They are forgoing a lifetime of killing and raping, well except for the odd lapse here and there.
If they have to give up all that fun stuff shouldn't they be allowed the pleasure of anticipating your eternal torture?
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 29, 2012, 05:17:28 AM
Ye those christians may seem angry but look at it from their side.
They are forgoing a lifetime of killing and raping, well except for the odd lapse here and there.
If they have to give up all that fun stuff shouldn't they be allowed the pleasure of anticipating your eternal torture?
Don't forget looting.
Nice green font.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 29, 2012, 05:17:28 AM
Ye those christians may seem angry but look at it from their side.
They are forgoing a lifetime of killing and raping, well except for the odd lapse here and there.
If they have to give up all that fun stuff shouldn't they be allowed the pleasure of anticipating your eternal torture?
Well, the scales have fallen from my eyes. If anyone ever tells me I'm going to hell, I'll thank them sincerely for restraining their desire to commit mayhem in exchange. It's a fair trade.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 29, 2012, 05:35:58 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 29, 2012, 05:17:28 AM
Ye those christians may seem angry but look at it from their side.
They are forgoing a lifetime of killing and raping, well except for the odd lapse here and there.
If they have to give up all that fun stuff shouldn't they be allowed the pleasure of anticipating your eternal torture?
Don't forget looting.
Yes. And pillaging. Do let us never forget that :D
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on March 29, 2012, 05:45:04 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on March 29, 2012, 05:17:28 AM
Ye those christians may seem angry but look at it from their side.
They are forgoing a lifetime of killing and raping, well except for the odd lapse here and there.
If they have to give up all that fun stuff shouldn't they be allowed the pleasure of anticipating your eternal torture?
Well, the scales have fallen from my eyes. If anyone ever tells me I'm going to hell, I'll thank them sincerely for restraining their desire to commit mayhem in exchange. It's a fair trade.
*nods solemnly* Tit for tat.
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:30:31 PM
*nods solemnly* Tit for tat.
...And what if The Asmo decides to rent a pair of tits but only has one tat? Be there a loophole?
Do those who own a pair of tits get impressed enough by a single tat? ???
EDIT: Just so I don't have to explain the word play later, boobs for tattoos.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:30:31 PM
*nods solemnly* Tit for tat.
...And what if The Asmo decides to rent a pair of tits but only has one tat? Be there a loophole?
Do those who own a pair of tits get impressed enough by a single tat? ???
EDIT: Just so I don't have to explain the word play later, boobs for tattoos.
Hahahhahaha. But sorry, no, 1 tat is definitely not impressive enough to see a matched pair. :P :D
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:41:23 PM
Hahahhahaha. But sorry, no, 1 tat is definitely not impressive enough to see a matched pair. :P :D
*Asmoface* How very SELFISH of them!
There ought to be a passage in the Book of Asmoism just for that there. With sacrifice. And burgers. >:( Burgers, you hear! >:(
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:30:31 PM
*nods solemnly* Tit for tat.
...And what if The Asmo decides to rent a pair of tits but only has one tat? Be there a loophole?
Do those who own a pair of tits get impressed enough by a single tat? ???
EDIT: Just so I don't have to explain the word play later, boobs for tattoos.
Hahahhahaha. But sorry, no, 1 tat is definitely not impressive enough to see a matched pair. :P :D
ROFL, Asmo and Ali! :D
Well... not impressive enough to see a matched pair? Hmm... I guess it would depend on where the tat is... ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 02:41:23 PM
Hahahhahaha. But sorry, no, 1 tat is definitely not impressive enough to see a matched pair. :P :D
*Asmoface* How very SELFISH of them!
There ought to be a passage in the Book of Asmoism just for that there. With sacrifice. And burgers. >:( Burgers, you hear! >:(
LMAO Well, maybe if it was a very big tattoo....Or something really stimulating, with busty ladies and howling wolves and Indian chiefs and stuff.... ;D ;D ;D
Asmotat is Freddy The Dead Horned Skull, it is.
Picture? :D (And no, I'm not going to post a picture of one of my boobs in return...LOL!!!)
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:19:11 PM
Picture? :D (And no, I'm not going to post a picture of one of my boobs in return...LOL!!!)
Why, The Asmo would NEVER ask for such thing! :o
oO(Two, though... Nothing was said about a picture of
two boobs in return :D )
I'll post a pic eventually - need to get on the right computer to access the album.
I've got 3 tats, so by the newly set up rules, I could see a set and a half. I win.
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:25:04 PM
I've got 3 tats, so by the newly set up rules, I could see a set and a half. I win.
Ah, but you are not Asmo and The Book of Asmoism clearly states that,
"
To Asmo, tribute thou shalt give
Two tits for but a single tat
And thou who hath no tits at all,
Naught shall ye see but Asmo's butt"
...And then it goes on and on and on about sacrifice and proper food recipies.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:25:04 PM
I've got 3 tats, so by the newly set up rules, I could see a set and a half. I win.
Ah, but you are not Asmo and The Book of Asmoism clearly states that,
"To Asmo, tribute thou shalt give
Two tits for but a single tat
And thou who hath no tits at all,
Naught shall ye see but Asmo's butt"
...And then it goes on and on and on about sacrifice and proper food recipies.
*tears* This is going in the members quotes thread. You're so awesome, Asmo.
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: Ali on March 29, 2012, 04:25:04 PM
I've got 3 tats, so by the newly set up rules, I could see a set and a half. I win.
Ah, but you are not Asmo and The Book of Asmoism clearly states that,
"To Asmo, tribute thou shalt give
Two tits for but a single tat
And thou who hath no tits at all,
Naught shall ye see but Asmo's butt"
...And then it goes on and on and on about sacrifice and proper food recipies.
:D ROFL! OK buddy, you're going on record as being the official lump of clay who repeatedly makes me choke on my coffee!
Priceless. I adore you, Asmo. ;D
Find one better written passage in the bible. ;D
Quote from: Asmodean on March 29, 2012, 07:11:41 PM
Find one better written passage in the bible. ;D
Quote1 Corinthians 13
1 iff i talkd wif teh tungz of manz n angylz, n duzzn haz luff, i are becom liek teh human, knockin down all teh potz n panz frm teh shelf, srsly.2 iff i haz powarz of liek tellin the futurez an if i has access to teh internets, an i gotz all teh missteriez an all teh knowingz an all teh faithz, enuff 2 taek all teh mowntanz awayz, an i duzzn haz luff, i gotz nuffink.3 an evn iff i givez all mai stuffz awai, n iff i delivur mai bodiz to b burnded up, and i duzzn haz luff, i gotz nuffink.
4 Luv is pashient n kind, luv haz no jelusniss or showin offz, luv no is stuck-up5 or r00dz. Luv no insistzes on doin it 4 itzelf, itz not pisst off alla tiem or rezentflufflele.6 Luv izzn all happiez about doin it wrong, but is happiez about teh truthz.7 Luv putz up wiht all teh stuffz, beelivez all teh stuffz, hoepz for all teh stuffz. Luv putz up wiht all teh stuffz... i sed that areddy?
8 Luv no haz endingz. Tellin the futurez, tungz, an alla stuffz u know wil die.9 We haz knowingz a bit, an we haz profacy a bit. We no haz two much tho.10 O, wait. Win teh perfict coemz, teh not perfict will dyez, lolol.11 Wen i wuz a kitten, i meweded leik a kitten, thinkded liek a kittenz, an I chazed strings liek a kittenz. Wen i wuz becomez a cat, i NO WANT kitten waiz ne moar.12 For nao we see in teh foggy mirorr like when teh human gets out of teh shower, but tehn we see faec tow faec. Nao i haz knowingz just a bit, tehn i will haz all teh knowingz, as i haz been knownz.
13 Nao faithz an hoepz an luvz r hear, theses threes, but teh bestest iz teh luv. srsly.
Source: www.lolcatbible.com :D
You guys are killing me. LOL XD
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
You are a big cat lover, DJ?
I have the cutest cat for you.
I super heart Maru the cat!!
farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5001570984_cbb79fe95d.jpg
Squish his little face, I could!
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 07:48:56 PM
Source: www.lolcatbible.com :D
Yes, but The Book of Asmoism rhymes :D
So LOLcats have no embraced Teh Asmoizms yet..? Teh Asmo ought to send them a missionary. >:(
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 29, 2012, 08:12:40 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
You are a big cat lover, DJ?
I have the cutest cat for you.
I super heart Maru the cat!!
farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5001570984_cbb79fe95d.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/user/mugumogu
Maru's owner's channel. ;D
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 29, 2012, 08:12:40 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
You are a big cat lover, DJ?
I have the cutest cat for you.
I super heart Maru the cat!!
farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5001570984_cbb79fe95d.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/user/mugumogu
Maru's owner's channel. ;D
Of course you can't forget Sparta!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&nomobile=1
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 30, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 29, 2012, 08:12:40 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
You are a big cat lover, DJ?
I have the cutest cat for you.
I super heart Maru the cat!!
farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5001570984_cbb79fe95d.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/user/mugumogu
Maru's owner's channel. ;D
Of course you can't forget Sparta!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&nomobile=1
Sparta was my first internet kitty :D!!
That song is catchy. <3
Considering the Lord's Prayer is still burned into my brain, this made me laugh so hard.
QuoteTeh Ceiling Cat of us, whu haz cheezeburger, yu be spechul
Yu ordered cheezburgerz,
Wut yu want, yu gets, srsly.
In ceiling and on teh flor.
Giv us dis day our dalee cheezburger.
And furgiv us for makin yu a cookie, but eateding it.
And we furgiv kittehs who be steelin our bukkits.
An do not let us leed into teh showa, but deliver us from teh wawter.
Ceiling Cat pwns all. He pwns teh ceiling and teh floor and walls too.
Forevur and evuhr. Amen.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:04:11 PM
Considering the Lord's Prayer is still burned into my brain, this made me laugh so hard.
QuoteTeh Ceiling Cat of us, whu haz cheezeburger, yu be spechul
Yu ordered cheezburgerz,
Wut yu want, yu gets, srsly.
In ceiling and on teh flor.
Giv us dis day our dalee cheezburger.
And furgiv us for makin yu a cookie, but eateding it.
And we furgiv kittehs who be steelin our bukkits.
An do not let us leed into teh showa, but deliver us from teh wawter.
Ceiling Cat pwns all. He pwns teh ceiling and teh floor and walls too.
Forevur and evuhr. Amen.
ROFL! Love it! ;D
Let me try one.
Hay Meowy, full of catnip
The ceiling cat pwns you
Awsomz is yoo amongst uvver pretty kittehs
An yummeh is the fruit of yer belleh, Mini-Ceiling Cat.
Hay Meowy, mudder of Dog, please to give yer luvs to us bad kittehs
Now an when we go to biiiig lidder box in sky.
Purr!
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 30, 2012, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 30, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 29, 2012, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 29, 2012, 08:12:40 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 29, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
LOLCATBIBLE?!?!
I know what time-suck I'll be spending the rest of my day with.
You are a big cat lover, DJ?
I have the cutest cat for you.
I super heart Maru the cat!!
farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5001570984_cbb79fe95d.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/user/mugumogu
Maru's owner's channel. ;D
Of course you can't forget Sparta!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&nomobile=1
Sparta was my first internet kitty :D!!
That song is catchy. <3
I watch most of his stuff, and they are all good.
Hahaha :D
an nao we tak dis cheezbergr an we tak dis cookiez
an we brakez em up an sharez dem wit our friendz
jus like da Jeebus did!
an he sad "wen you eated des cheezbergrs and eated des cookiez, do it in memmorie of me. K guyz? lol"
I could do this all day! ;D
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:46:32 PM
Hahaha :D
an nao we tak dis cheezbergr an we tak dis cookiez
an we brakez em up an sharez dem wit our friendz
jus like da Jeebus did!
an he sad "wen you eated des cheezbergrs and eated des cookiez, do it in memmorie of me. K guyz? lol"
I could do this all day! ;D
Love it. ;D If Jesus were an lolcat, he'd say something like "be gud kthxbai, BRB!"
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 30, 2012, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Amicale on March 30, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
"be gud kthxbai, BRB!"
:D hahaha, he so would!
I'm sure any Christian reading our LOLcat enjoyment is absolutely certain we're going to hell, by now. ;D
Ah, so often earnest discussions turns in to "Look! Kittehs!"
The LOLcatbible is genius!
And Asmo, you make me laugh.
I used to have a black, long haired Persian cross cat that I would call Basment Cat, even though he was the sweetest cat around.
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 30, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
I used to have a black, long haired Persian cross cat that I would call Basment Cat, even though he was the sweetest cat around.
Oh basement cat. Sounds cute :)!
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 30, 2012, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 30, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
I used to have a black, long haired Persian cross cat that I would call Basment Cat, even though he was the sweetest cat around.
Oh basement cat. Sounds cute :)!
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2Ffunny-pictures-basement-cat-is-disoriented.jpg&hash=05a31259134884485e72ab6a9709f702c886119e)
;D
Quote from: history_geek on March 30, 2012, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 30, 2012, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: Budhorse4 on March 30, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
I used to have a black, long haired Persian cross cat that I would call Basment Cat, even though he was the sweetest cat around.
Oh basement cat. Sounds cute :)!
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2Ffunny-pictures-basement-cat-is-disoriented.jpg&hash=05a31259134884485e72ab6a9709f702c886119e)
;D
ROFL! It looks like basement cat was flattened by the anti-gravity emanating from ceiling cat!
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
I thought they were mortal enemies?
Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
I thought they were mortal enemies?
But ceiling cat created poor basement cat, it's not basement cat's fault he didn't like ceilings and preferred dark basements. ;D
Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
I thought they were mortal enemies?
No, no. Ceiling cat is enemies with monorail cat.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 07:34:42 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
I thought they were mortal enemies?
No, no. Ceiling cat is enemies with monorail cat.
I heard that they had to drop monorail cats due to budget cuts and replace them with monorail squirrels (now I know the picture is out there
somewhere....) :-\
Quote from: history_geek on March 31, 2012, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 07:34:42 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 31, 2012, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 31, 2012, 06:06:32 AM
Ahahaha, ceiling cat and basement cat are buddies.
I thought they were mortal enemies?
No, no. Ceiling cat is enemies with monorail cat.
I heard that they had to drop monorail cats due to budget cuts and replace them with monorail squirrels (now I know the picture is out there somewhere....) :-\
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nutsaboutsquirrels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2Fwpid-MG_5296-Edit-Monorail-Squirrel.jpg&hash=7f07f3b9d93a6df21b0dc12ba0dec09c41bddfab)
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2Ffunny-pictures-squirrels-collide.jpg&hash=fc378e6a26dad3f3b7ab23ae314ce3275e44f6f9)
^^Ha, good ones! :D But the one I had in mind was this ;) :
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.icanhascheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2008%2F6%2F13%2Fgaspricesforce128578897034049086.jpg&hash=3b04fa3a31e367e9ffc4ca7b39d6614b6ead80fe)
Omg, so cuuute!!
I wish I had a better camera phone, so I can take a photo of monorail rat. XD My Mikoto is so fat , and she loves to hang out ontop of her cage.
Wow. So we went from talking about going to hell to mono-rail squirrels, as the topic indicated, was a troll threat! OMG! (Not to say that the original post was a troll, but rather that in the process of discussing something that normally is a troll, we began to treat it as such.)
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
Wow. So we went from talking about going to hell to mono-rail squirrels, as the topic indicated, was a troll threat! OMG! (Not to say that the original post was a troll, but rather that in the process of discussing something that normally is a troll, we began to treat it as such.)
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
LOL, I love your signature line for today! Former Catholic, I see. ;D
If someone tells me they'll pray for me, I have no problem with that. I just see it as them wanting to offer well wishes for whatever situation I'm in.
I usually laugh really loudly when someone wants to pray "or blesses me." It's kinda like a reflex. :)
What do gas pries have to do with monorail? Are those not electric?
Quote from: Sweetdeath on April 01, 2012, 06:16:38 PM"or blesses me."
It's only cool when Tobuscus says it ;)
But personally I have no idea how I would react, because no-one has ever told me to go to hell. Not even in the interwebs, which I think means that I'm either lucky or a very unnoticeable person O_o
And if someone said that they will pray for me I would mostly likely feel awkward. Like that time when I went to Oulu by train and as I was coming back, an old lady stepped off before me at a different stop. I nodded (like I always do) as she went pass my seat next to the cart door, and she said "Jesus loves you too", and went her merry way. I was a bit stunned, and checked what if my shirt or other clothes had some logo or something that would have prompted her to say something like that. Now that I think about it, it might be my goatee and rather short hair that makes me a "target" -_- Because there was that one guy in our villages stores parking lot that just suddenly walked up to my car as I was loading up the bags and gave me a small booklet about a church event at a neighboring town...that was about a year ago, I think. Weird.
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
It's a guise.
The important bit for these people is when they
tell you that they are going to pray for you.
If the prayer were important then they would just pray without the need to tell you about it.
Quote from: Stevil on April 01, 2012, 09:56:41 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
It's a guise.
The important bit for these people is when they tell you that they are going to pray for you.
If the prayer were important then they would just pray without the need to tell you about it.
That's a good point, Stevil. Maybe the people saying they'll pray for you are trying to show off their strong faith, or trying to make you feel better, or trying to make themselves feel better, or all the above. I don't know. I do know though that a few family friends of ours are very, VERY Christian (one Baptist, one Pentecostal, one another denomination). As family friends naturally tend to find out stuff about your life, these folks found out stuff about my life they didn't like or approve of. And I do know that although none of them going around saying 'we're praying for you!' all the time, I've heard though other people that my name is on church prayer chains. Or at least, it was. Maybe they've given up by now. Several years is a long time to pray I've seen the error of my ways! :D
Quote from: Stevil on April 01, 2012, 09:56:41 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
I don't have problems with people telling me I'm going to hell. I do, however, cringe whenever someone offers to "pray for X/Y/Z/ME".
It's a guise.
The important bit for these people is when they tell you that they are going to pray for you.
If the prayer were important then they would just pray without the need to tell you about it.
It is a bit like bragging when you put it that way. They feel they have a strong connection
with 'god.'
Quote from: Amicale on April 01, 2012, 10:54:06 PM
Maybe the people saying they'll pray for you are trying to show off their strong faith, or trying to make you feel better, or trying to make themselves feel better, or all the above. I don't know.
I assume they do it as a way to evangalise. To show that they are a Christian and they are being "compassionate" towards you and your future.
Like they will get some brownie points from you for making this gesture.
But of course is it misguided. The atheist doesn't really care that an imaginary entity is being prayed to on their behalf.
The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.
You know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 03:55:05 AM
The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.
It's true I've rarely been asked if someone may pray for me, I assume because it's taken for granted that the prayer will do me no harm and may do me some good. Since I agree that it will do me no harm, I've always given my premission the few times I was asked.
QuoteYou know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.
Yeah, that pretty much goes without saying.
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 03:55:05 AM
Quote from: Amicale on April 01, 2012, 10:54:06 PM
Maybe the people saying they'll pray for you are trying to show off their strong faith, or trying to make you feel better, or trying to make themselves feel better, or all the above. I don't know.
I assume they do it as a way to evangalise. To show that they are a Christian and they are being "compassionate" towards you and your future.
Like they will get some brownie points from you for making this gesture.
But of course is it misguided. The atheist doesn't really care that an imaginary entity is being prayed to on their behalf.
The annoying thing, I think about it is that the atheist isn't asked if they would like a prayer made on their behalf.
You know, if something is done on my behalf, I would like to be asked if I want it. If they don't ask, then they are assuming they know better than me what I want.
Eh, yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying.
Question is, should we mind if a prayer's being said on our behalf? After all, what do we think the prayer's actually doing? Connecting the believing to God? Or do we think it's just them essentially talking to themselves? :) If someone wants to talk to themself, I guess it doesn't hurt much, if it makes them feel better. If someone were to ask/say "can I pray for you?" or "I'll be praying for you", I personally generally just say "thanks, I appreciate your concern and your kind thoughts." because to me, that's what the desire to pray for me amounts to -- wanting to somehow "help" me, by appealing to God for help. Even if they CAN'T help, they'd like to think they can. I choose to believe most of them mean well and aren't just showing their faith off.
I think the thing that probably ticks at least some atheists off is the presumptuousness of the believer -- they presume that by letting us know they're praying, we'll assent to the prayer and therefore assent to their beliefs being true. If we 'let them pray' for us, then the believer might see it as us admitting that just maybe, prayer works and just maybe, they're right and we're wrong. Particularly if the prayer is "answered". So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.
Quote from: Amicale on April 02, 2012, 04:43:36 AM
So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.
Would it be rude to kinda subtly shrug, like a "whatever" type thing (but not saying it out loud), so as to imply, I've acknowledged that you have just said something to me (not ignoring you), but due to my lack of belief, I don't really have anything constructive to respond back with.
Call me weird but I would struggle to honestly thank them for their offer.
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 05:12:39 AM
Quote from: Amicale on April 02, 2012, 04:43:36 AM
So I guess it couldn't hurt to tell them that while we don't think prayer works, we respect their right to pray because we understand they feel anxiety on our behalf, and the prayer ritual might help calm them.
Would it be rude to kinda subtly shrug, like a "whatever" type thing (but not saying it out loud), so as to imply, I've acknowledged that you have just said something to me (not ignoring you), but due to my lack of belief, I don't really have anything constructive to respond back with.
Call me weird but I would struggle to honestly thank them for their offer.
You're not weird. I usually am taken back by such assumptions that I share their foolish beliefs. I have to bite my tongue to keep from a snarky remark. Sometimes I am rude, but I think I have the right.
Quote from: Amicale on April 02, 2012, 04:43:36 AM
I think the thing that probably ticks at least some atheists off is the presumptuousness of the believer -- they presume that by letting us know they're praying, we'll assent to the prayer and therefore assent to their beliefs being true.
Yeah, they tend to grab at any straw that means we really do believe what they do. We've seen the argument on this board that merely using the word "god" means we believe in its existence. I think some version of "Honey, if it makes you feel better then knock yourself out" or "I'll take all the help I can get, thanks" will let them know we appreciate the thought, but that's as far as it goes.
How about a simple "Thanks, but I'm sure you can find a more productive use of your time"?
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 02, 2012, 06:32:35 AM
How about a simple "Thanks, but I'm sure you can find a more productive use of your time"?
Because then I'd hear about how there is no other more productive use of time than prayer. Besides, that's their take on it, I respect that's how they feel even if I don't respect the power of prayer itself and unless they're being dicks about it I'm not the one who'll rain on their little prayer parade.
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.
I always say "Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts" (assuming I think that the "I'll pray for you" comment is made with kind intentions, for example at my grandma's funeral. People said something like "Your family is in my prayers" which I took to mean that they were praying that we found peace and healing. It's a nice enough thought. It doesn't bother me.)
Quote from: Ali on April 02, 2012, 08:21:42 PM
I always say "Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts" (assuming I think that the "I'll pray for you" comment is made with kind intentions, for example at my grandma's funeral. People said something like "Your family is in my prayers" which I took to mean that they were praying that we found peace and healing. It's a nice enough thought. It doesn't bother me.)
Yes, its all about perception. I need to think that they are empathetic rather than worry about their faith.
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.
I do find it odd however, how true believers think they will influence the omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenelovent god they believe in. If there was a god who had my best interests at heart, was powerful enough to avoid anything against what's best for me and already knew beforehand everything that was going to happen to me, prayer sort of defeats the purpose.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.
This too.
I was on a religious forum, and a person told me they would pray for me so that I would accept Jesus.
I asked them to pray for themselves so that they could accept me for who I am rather than change me so that they would find me more palatable.
Quote from: Stevil on April 02, 2012, 10:39:57 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
If someone said that they were praying for me, for whatever reason, I'd consider their intentions to be more important than whether prayer works or not. It's really irrelevant. Prayers to help make me see things their way are really annoying.
This too.
I was on a religious forum, and a person told me they would pray for me so that I would accept Jesus.
I asked them to pray for themselves so that they could accept me for who I am rather than change me so that they would find me more palatable.
I get that sometimes too, but when I let them know how annoyed I am they say that they worry for my immortal soul. ::)
I would like to tell them to mind their own souls first, but I don't want to escalate things, because it can quickly get out of control. If it was a complete stranger though, meh. Let them have it all - the flying insults and more.
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 02, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.
Exactly. I was thinking that one could also look at this as a kind of scientific experiment to discover if there is indeed an energy in the universe that can be manipulated by prayers, chants, spells, whatever. We are the guinea pigs and will report back to them if anything happens.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 04, 2012, 03:15:08 AM
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 02, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.
Exactly. I was thinking that one could also look at this as a kind of scientific experiment to discover if there is indeed an energy in the universe that can be manipulated by prayers, chants, spells, whatever. We are the guinea pigs and will report back to them if anything happens.
I suspect it will be a long wait...
If someone is clearly an idiot, i must point it out.
I dont like people who want to pray for me. Especially strangers. When my mom was in the hospital, a lot of people had her in their 'prayers'. I found it incredibly rude and distasefyul. My mom wasnt religious. I was also very emotional for the whole 3 weeks she was in ICU, so it was not very hard not to come off like an ass.
People shouldnt press their belief on you, so I hate it when people assume I believe in a non existant fairy king.
I suspect that an atheist who is told that he is going to hell is less offended than he is frustrated that the person who makes such a claim actually believes such a thing. An atheist believes in logic and reasonable argument. Usually, atheists tear christians a new one in debates, but there is nothing that an atheist can do to logically counter the angry cry: "You're going to hell!", and so the atheist experiences discomfort, annoyance, irritation, and above all, frustration.
Of course, even among christians, it's pretty messed up to tell one that they are going to hell, especially if they believe in hell. So I suppose the offensiveness of the statement is not to be discounted either.
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 04, 2012, 07:17:33 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 04, 2012, 03:15:08 AM
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 02, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.
Exactly. I was thinking that one could also look at this as a kind of scientific experiment to discover if there is indeed an energy in the universe that can be manipulated by prayers, chants, spells, whatever. We are the guinea pigs and will report back to them if anything happens.
I suspect it will be a long wait...
Yeah, but at least we're helping and really, who's a better subject for this than us? It's not like we're screwing with the results by expecting anything.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 05, 2012, 02:35:55 AM
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 04, 2012, 07:17:33 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 04, 2012, 03:15:08 AM
Quote from: Guardian85 on April 02, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
I suppose it's a clean, inexpensive hobby that doesn't hurt anyone. Let them do as they please.
Exactly. I was thinking that one could also look at this as a kind of scientific experiment to discover if there is indeed an energy in the universe that can be manipulated by prayers, chants, spells, whatever. We are the guinea pigs and will report back to them if anything happens.
I suspect it will be a long wait...
Yeah, but at least we're helping and really, who's a better subject for this than us? It's not like we're screwing with the results by expecting anything.
True dat....