Happy Atheist Forum

I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don’t doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this. I want to know what really makes someone who they are. I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am. How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe? Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place? Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

Wow... I need more coffee before I attempt this one.  LOL!  :-)

Hi boo_ya --- Personally, I think the answer to your question lies within the future explanatory power of the brain sciences.  I'm not sure if all the issues you address (save the last one about "something after death") have very satisfactory or complete answers at the current time.  But - I'm not a brain scientist, so maybe I'm just ignorant of the "state of the art".

I'm a tad confused with this statement:

Quote from: "boo_ya"I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence

I guess I would say that I can't find any reliable evidence that there is "something after death", so what evidence are you referring to?  Do you think there is compelling positive evidence of "something after death" existing?  If so - do you mind if I ask what?

(P.S. welcome to the forum - some members choose to post an introduction over in the Introductions (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum10,introductions.html) folder to let the others know a little bit about them and their background)

I dunno, I could offer you my explanation, but it's always going to be subjective when it comes to defining self. I suppose the easiest answer is "it just does," but it seems like you're looking for meaning. Personally, I require no meaning to life. I don't think it's particularly important where I draw the line of self as opposed to others.

Honestly? It's chance. It's just circumstance. There's all sorts of stuff after death, but you'll be dead so you won't experience it. Your body will shut down and start to decompose. Then you'll reenter the life cycle, where you're used as sustenance by a tree or something. There isn't a heaven or reincarnation, at least not in the traditional sense. I tend to think that my body being used to help a tree grow is quite poetic and beautiful, and I don't need any fantasy to bring me a sense of closure about life or to prepare me for death.

I would be pleased if my constituent parts somehow became incorporated into the life of a dragonfly.  Mostly just because I think dragonflies are cool - maybe I should request to be buried in a swamp?  Ewwwww!

Life after death? Well, I used to believe that reincarnation made more sense than ending up in a boring place full of boring angels playing boring instruments to boring people. Nowadys I'm a bit more sceptical, so I'll just wait and see what happens when the Grim Reaper comes to get me.

Quote from: "boo_ya"I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don’t doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this. I want to know what really makes someone who they are. I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am. How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe? Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place? Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

It would take a very, very long time to simply relay the current knowledge about how the brain produces what we call "us".  The modern human brain is the product of millions of years of evolution and we've only been studying it for a fraction of that time.  This is not to say we don't know much about it.  The knowledge we have to day is colossal but there is always (and always will be) more to learn, this is the nature of science.

Now if you wish to focus on just consciousness studies, that would cut down on the massiveness of your question, not by a whole lot but some.  Or you could possibly look into how injury affects a person like the one case which is included in most texts - that of Phineas Gage.

To my knowledge there is no reason or need to appeal to some "unknown" or "outside" source in relation to what we as cognitive beings are and can do.

Quote from: "boo_ya"Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

I don't think that there really needs to be something more. There is tendency for people to believe that there is more to life because of the fear of death. I sometimes find it uneasy to think about death; however, death or not existing is kind of a natural state. Personally it is easy for me to think of things not existing. The idea of nothingness is rather comforting when I am tortured with what happens after I die. It is like trying to imagine what happened before you where born. To me, this is the same way of thinking about death.

Hey jcm - didn't somebody famous answer this question in similiar fashion?  He said something like "before I was born I was dead for centuries, and it didn't bother me a bit?".

I will happily admit that I am far more worried about dying than about being dead.  If I got to choose, I'd rather not die until my children are financially independent.  But - its the final experience that sets my teeth to grinding.

Welcome, Boo ya. I had a good response all set for you, but it is too much like Squid's, so I'll just say hi instead for now. That handsome bastard* is always right on top of this stuff. I never get my answers in fast enough!



* Of course, it is entirely possible that his parents were married when he was born, so my bastard comment may be nullified completely.

Know the feeling. My response would be along the lines of jcm's; I too find the idea of non-existance comforting. Ultimately, though, I don't think it's even possible to speculate upon what comes after you're dead OR what came before you were born, for that matter. Whatever it is, it's beyond our comprehension. You simply can't begin to make assumptions about what it feels like not to be a conscious, sentient, living creature... or should that be what it doesn't feel like? Cross that bridge when you come to it, says I.

boo_ya, are you interested in chaos theory? I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were but if you haven't read much about it already, then judging by the nature of this topic, you'd probably find it fascinating in the context of evolution & human psychology. I'd recommend Chaos by James Gleick (I just finished it the other day: a bloomin' excellent book).

it obviouse to me that theres more to this than darwin we dont even understand the evolution of the universe yet .way i see this we all highly intelligent well evolvoed bacteria probly sounds grim but makes me feel lucky to be here to appreciate this well evolved world after all we humans only been here a short while so far but we changed it so much we find it hard to face the gravity of the question so most just go along with the easiest answers unquestioning and distrscted from reality. respect to those who question and a big fat mention to all those who pay attention lol

Quote from: "SteveS"Hey jcm - didn't somebody famous answer this question in similiar fashion?  He said something like "before I was born I was dead for centuries, and it didn't bother me a bit?".

That's so awesome I'm totally going to rip it off. Awesome.

I'll have to try to find where I read this - I'm sure I got it out of one of the books in my atheist collection - can't remember which one though (George Smith, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins,  :?  )

Actually I think it may have been Oscar Wilde who originally said that.

Also, one thing about the whole idea of reincarnation as opposed to an afterlife: even if it's true, I personally don't find it a very comforting theory, if that's what you're looking for. Don't we tend to associate our "being" with our identity, which relies a lot on our capacity for memory? If the idea is that we reincarnate as a different person with no memory of who we were before, isn't that more or less the same thing as dying forever? It's like going over the life story of a person with amnesia. From an outsider's perspective her life before and after the onset of amnesia seems to belong to the same person, but to the patient with amnesia, it's as if those things before the amnesia happened to someone else.

I think what brain science will find, and what it seems to have revealed so far, is that we don't actually exist, at least not in the way we think we do. Being is an illusion. It's pretty fascinating though. It's all a bit zen.

Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens:

QuoteMr. Clemens was once asked whether he feared death. He said that he did not, in view of the fact that he had been dead for billions and billions of years before he was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

I read that on StumbleUpon.com

That's it MommaSquid!  Thanks - I checked my books last night but could not find the quote.

Quote from: "pjkeeley"Don't we tend to associate our "being" with our identity, which relies a lot on our capacity for memory? If the idea is that we reincarnate as a different person with no memory of who we were before, isn't that more or less the same thing as dying forever?

Yup - that's pretty much how I see it.  Who cares if I get reincarnated as somebody else?  I wouldn't really be me.  I'd be somebody else.  So what would it even mean to say "I am somebody else"?  Might as well say "I am not", which is the same as being dead.

Oh well (shrugs).  Reincarnation sounds good until you realize its irrelevant to our sense of self.

Maybe I wouldn't want my remains to be a dragonfly after all - maybe I'd rather have them become beer yeast.  The life of a beer yeast is very short, but very sweet.  You get to run rampant eating sugar and reproducing like crazy, and you leave behind "beneficial pollution" (alcohol and "flavor compounds") that makes other organisms very happy - who could ask for more?

Quote from: "boo_ya"I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don't doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this....Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin's Theory of Evolution

If Darwin's Theory of Evolution had major relevance to metaphysics and and things unearthly, as opposed to merely sentients and other lifeforms, an explanation would be much easier to find.

Quote from: "boo_ya"I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am.

I would agree with Squid that you could examine a case like Phineas Gage.

Quote from: "boo_ya"How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe?

As for the understanding of ones self in the universe, I would (again) agree that you should focus more on consciousness studies if you wish to narrow the dimensions of what exactly you wish answered.  
To give you my opinion, however, I believe consciousness to be a comtomatant (I may of spelled that wrong) to recognition and perception, rather than the more orthodox idea of perception arising from the idea of the self. So to answer your question (somewhat), mere matter makes the brain, which makes the ability to process information, which makes it possible for acknowledgment and general awareness. Self awareness comes by proxy. Of course, that's all just personal belief.

Quote from: "boo_ya"Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place?

I'm not well-versed in electrochemistry. However, I would think you could substitute the word "sublime" with "natural". How grand or aesthetically pleasing that seems to you is purely subjective.

Quote from: "boo_ya". I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

If it cannot be explained by evidence, it is purely supposition. It is impossible to use something within the parameter of observable phenomenon (evolution) to identify something that cannot be observed. As already mentioned, however, there are things after death which have evidence of occuring: decomposition. And as with the natural process of electrochemistry, rather you are content with this answer is purely subjective.

It seems I messed up the quote function. I'll have it fixed in a moment.

Cheers for the great responses. Sorry for such a direct question without any formal introduction. I will post something up shortly. I went looking for an atheist forum because I consider myself to be on the same wave length as your typical atheist. Unfortunately I don’t personally know any atheists so it is good to be able to here your thoughts on life from an atheist perspective. I don’t really consider myself an atheist but I suppose in a way I am pretty close. Perhaps I am an atheist that simply is yet to rule out the possibility of a God in some form or another. Like many of you said I am probably just searching for meaning but am certainly not clutching any hope of an after life or heaven. I also find nothingness quite comforting. I like to explore the philosophy of life through a scientific perspective rather than have some religious wack job preach shit to me 24/7. So I guess I am in the right place. Saying that I quite enjoy conversations with religious people so long as its not a one way conversation being “I am right, and your wrong”.

I particularly liked what pjkeeley’s said

QuoteI think what brain science will find, and what it seems to have revealed so far, is that we don't actually exist, at least not in the way we think we do. Being is an illusion. It's pretty fascinating though. It's all a bit zen.

I will be sure to look into Phineas Gage. I am familiar with Chaos theory but have not read James Gleick book.

To answer your question Steves I do not think there is something after death that can be explained by evidence. I think there is something after death that can not be explained by evidence. But I would like to elaborate on that. Even though I have not ruled out the possibility of a god I am not trying to say that I think something after death is necessarily god related. Maybe just within the cycle of life we are once again able to experience a conscious life without having any recollection of a previous life.

Thanks for the response boo_ya.  I guess, if I don't have evidence for something, I tend not to "think" it exists.  This is directly because I can't convince myself why I should "think" that way.

Thanks a lot SteveS and MommaSquid, I haven’t read that quote before. I am totally going to use it from now on.

Absolutely, ask any Xian. They are already walking zombies (dead people who are still living.)

"I think, therefore I am"  - René Descartes

I highly doubt dead men think.

here's my tuppence.

your brain is composed of a bunch of atoms, put together in a way that evolution has defined as appropriate, due to the process of natural selection. When you die, the cells that were made of the atoms begin to disperse, your body and brain falls apart, rots away.

In death, there is nothing, there is no self, it isnt some sort of 'sleep' there is no concioussness whatsoever. I believe that once you are dead, you might has well have never existed, the universe might as well not exist, because if there is no 'you' then there is no 'anything'.

I take great joy in this, ever the optimist, and I think it gives my life a cheery, pleasant comfort that one day nothing that happened whilst i lived amounted to anything at all.

Quote from: "Mister Joy"...Ultimately, though, I don't think it's even possible to speculate upon what comes after you're dead OR what came before you were born, for that matter. Whatever it is, it's beyond our comprehension. You simply can't begin to make assumptions about what it feels like not to be a conscious, sentient, living creature... or should that be what it doesn't feel like? Cross that bridge when you come to it, says I.

I like the way you put that.  

Im still very skeptical about what the true meaning of my life is if in the end it doesn't amout to anything. It just seems illogical in its own sense.. I don't beleive theres a true afterlife or anything like that but it wouldnt suprise me if death had its own logical reasonings as well. I think i read somewhere recently that dna might pass our ancestor's  as well as our own memories onto our offspring. If the sense of identity truly is just encorporated memory what would happen if we eventually found ways of unlocking these memories? Kinda liek past life regression in a scientific manner. Would not the identies of our ancestors be living on in some very limited manner? Adding onto that what if the "sense of self" that we all have is just a collection of living intentions? How can i put this into words . Our bodies are designed to help us acheive the things our minds seek to do. Our genes are constantly being thrown and jumbled together with thouseands of other peoples... half finished dreams and aspirations. bleh im having a hard time making this concrete. I hope somebody gets the jist of what im trying to say. It would make sense to me that our bodies are just tools to help acheive the collective dreams of our thousands of ancestors. Feelings and reactions to events we have are just involuntary subconsious memories in action with some sort of intention. In some way i feel that the way its almost human nature for us to want  to beleive in something greater than our selves is just the recognition that we are the culmination of thousands of lives and people in one consiousness.

I really don't think DNA stores memories - otherwise, my DNA would be constantly modified during the course of my life, as I acquire new memories.  And, I don't think that happens.

In fact, it would be downright weird if it did.  I don't want to accidentally unlock any memories of my great-great-grandfather masturbating.....yuck!

Actually it may be possible. At least on a subconsious level. http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... es_on.html (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/558779/genetic_memory_and_the_theories_on.html)

Quote from: "sveric"Actually it may be possible. At least on a subconsious level. http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... es_on.html (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/558779/genetic_memory_and_the_theories_on.html)

More like on an unconsious level.

With genetic memory, the "memory" passed through genes doesn't act as a catalyst for the actions of the one who inherits. And though I suppose it's "recollection" with a very strict definition, the inheritor doesn't exactly remember memories. They just have the capacity to possible have an instinct or an inclination to act.

As such, your theory about composition from thousands of different consciousness doesn't make much sense. Genetic memory carries through generations, but only from the recollection of the previous holder of the genes. Your great-great-great grandfather isn't acting through you. Nor did he act through his son. His son merely had the capacity to hold a slight carbon copy of memories.

Also, the rest of your stuff is purely spiritual speculation. You assign a teleology to explain cognition and mental subjectivity. If you wish to believe your body to be a distinct inferior entity from your mind, don't expect anything but speculation and faith to support you.

That feeling that there is something more after death is called 'fear.' We are all afraid of dying. Religions have made countless trillions of dollars exploiting that fear since the beginning of humanity.

Obviously, matter cannot be created nor, destroyed. The energy and matter that makes us has been here since the beginning of the universe (if it had a beginning) and will always exist.

In that sense, we are all immortal or at least our parts are. As far as our own consciousness surviving after death, I believe that's just wishful thinking.

If I may echo an earlier posted sentiment, remember what you felt and thought before you were born? That's what death will be like.

All personal opinion of course.

so when i die i'm dead. does it matter to me what happens to my body when i'm already dead, hell no. so all i can do is plan my funeral while i'm alive cause once that day comes, its over for my life i'm lucky to have had one.  :cheers: to winning the lottery of life!

Back to the basic question: Life after death?

This and "What is the meaning of life" have been questions which have plagued me since I was 7.  Since I was able to think rationally, I have never been able to believe in the idea of God.  It makes complete sense to me that there will be no more conscious awareness and therefore no existence for me after I die.  So, everyone who has lived and died is nothing but a memory and some remnance of cells which may or may not be still decomposing.

The question I am at times obsessed with is "Given that I will not exist after my body dies, what purpose can I have in this life?" Why live at all? I can't seem to find any satisfaction with my life because it seems so empty.  No matter if I focus on relationships, hedonistic pleasures, career, mental pursuits, or daily activities, I never feel comfortable.  There's an underlying confusion and fear which I know is the reason that others have choosen to believe in "God" and religion.

So I ask: How has anyone who has felt and thought about these things been able to reconcile it and live joyfully?

Quote from: "searchingmind"Back to the basic question: Life after death?

This and "What is the meaning of life" have been questions which have plagued me since I was 7.  Since I was able to think rationally, I have never been able to believe in the idea of God.  It makes complete sense to me that there will be no more conscious awareness and therefore no existence for me after I die.  So, everyone who has lived and died is nothing but a memory and some remnance of cells which may or may not be still decomposing.

The question I am at times obsessed with is "Given that I will not exist after my body dies, what purpose can I have in this life?" Why live at all? I can't seem to find any satisfaction with my life because it seems so empty.  No matter if I focus on relationships, hedonistic pleasures, career, mental pursuits, or daily activities, I never feel comfortable.  There's an underlying confusion and fear which I know is the reason that others have choosen to believe in "God" and religion.

So I ask: How has anyone who has felt and thought about these things been able to reconcile it and live joyfully?

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, to your question. I think many atheists have thought about this. I have, and I managed not to slide into nihilism. I live sooooo much more happily now than I ever did as a believer in afterlife, because I KNOW that every minute here is important and there are no "do-overs".

when you discover that you are the author of your own life story, and you get to make the rules of that story, it helps a great deal. You can live happily and with a purpose that you get to define.

Stick around, and you'll get to talk with some other Happy Atheists!  

Viktor Frankl said and I paraphrase that we have to cease asking life for meaning. Rather we should add meaning to our life. We were asking the wrong question our whole life that we never actually thought of reversing the question to answer that question.

The meaning of life is fairly subjective and cannot be answered by religion. If religion answered it for you, then it is not personal anymore. It becomes objective against the "laws of God."

It's great to have that thought that the meaning of life is subjective since you and only you can add meaning to it. Whether your aim in life is to achieve intellectual freedom, financial freedom, relationship, etc, it all contributes to what you want from life. The joys that costs nothing or less that is accessible to you in anyway. I think that is what we all aim for and adds meaning to our life.

To a personal level, what's my meaning of life? Well... life is about having fun with friends and family; helping them out, guiding them, being guided by them and just having fun with them! That's it! And I'm god-damned happy!

A great thought experiment is envisioning yourself at your funeral (I'm taking this excerpt from 7 Habits...). What would you like to hear from your eulogy? That "searchingmind" was a great son, father, friend and mentor? Or that "searchingmind" was a frigid but everyone knew that he loved in that way?

In a sense, we do live forever in the hearts of those who know us. We also live forever by the memories, the lessons and the stories handed down by our children to theirs and to theirs... Sounds preachy but I'd like to imagine that if my mind enters the big void, at least someone here in life would pass on my life lessons.

QuoteIn a sense, we do live forever in the hearts of those who know us. We also live forever by the memories, the lessons and the stories handed down by our children to theirs and to theirs... Sounds preachy but I'd like to imagine that if my mind enters the big void, at least someone here in life would pass on my life lessons.

This makes me think of theoretical physics and Hawking.  Whatever dust we become in the end, the 'information' of us still persists.  Perhaps in the memories of others this holds true.  And what effect do we have on those who have known us?  And on their children throughout succeeding generations?  Perhaps minuscule influences, but influences nonetheless.

Quote from: "jaymayo"In a sense, we do live forever in the hearts of those who know us. We also live forever by the memories, the lessons and the stories handed down by our children to theirs and to theirs... Sounds preachy but I'd like to imagine that if my mind enters the big void, at least someone here in life would pass on my life lessons.

Yeah, I think about things like this a lot. One of my biggest goals in life is to be remembered long after I'm dead, and not just by family, or friends. I hope I can impact society (positively, of course) enough so that a meatpacker who lives in Montana in the year 2108 knows my name, and more important my ideas and theories and beliefs. I think thats the only way to achieve immortality. MLK isn't dying soon, but then again, neither is Hitler.

I don't know if anyone has quoted this yet, but the discussion reminded me of these words attributed to Dr. James Watson:

Quote from: "Dr. James Watson"I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say 'Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose' but I'm anticipating a good lunch.

:lol:  Seriously, though, this is how I look at it.  Try to enjoy as much as you can --- and the stuff that's not enjoyable, do it as you believe you should do it.  If nothing matters except the here and now, then the only thing that matters is the here and now!  If you worry about leaving a lasting positive impression on future generations, then try to leave a lasting positive impression on future generations.

Me, I don't worry about them so much.  Afterall, what have the future generations done for me?  :wink:

Well I don't believe in death, just extreme molecular disorganization and memory loss.

Death is

something relevant: http://audio.wnyc.org/radiolab/radiolab050807pod.mp3 (http://audio.wnyc.org/radiolab/radiolab050807pod.mp3)

If you're not a listener of Radio Lab, subscribe to the podcast!

Reflecting narcissist you completely misunderstood where I was going with that.  "If you wish to believe your body to be a distinct inferior entity from your mind, don't expect anything but speculation and faith to support you."  Umm way to be objective...  I think its quite the stretch to say that you can positively prove that my theory couldn't have any scientific grounding. Its called thinking out of the box ...

Its pure theory and I can't prove any of it but neither can you disprove it so don't be such an ass and start ripping apart my logic and turning it into some sort of denial of death complex.

 The possiblity that our subconsious mind is influenced before birth with certain tendencies and aspirations that we are unaware of on a consious level isn't a ridiculous concept at all. I admit there is speculation in there because I would love for it to be true but it logically seems possible and likely to me. Off topic a little but still relevant i think is that some transplant patients suddenly have urges and cravings to do things they never had any interest in previously. Like monster trucks or cooking.. which their donors enjoyed doing. They've done some research on it and im not sure where scientificly it stands at the moment but its things like that that lead me to beleive its very possible for memories and aspirations to jump beyond the consious mind after death through our genes.

Also past life regression through hypnosis is another interesting topic that seems to strectch the possiblity. How could that be possible if the memories unlocked weren't stored somewhere in the human mind or body? What many people have described in their sessions has been confimed with research on the described persons life.


Ok ... so to summarize I'm not saying that we all have our grandfathers carbon copy consciousness lurking around unnoticed in our minds . I'm saying that theres a good possiblity that somehow his life experiences lessons might be etched somwhere in our minds unknowing to us.

 I'd go into further detail explaining the "possibility" that you shot down like some 6 year olds dream of being an astronaut; (bush is president you know ) but this computer screen is givin me a headache. Just because it sounds somewhat spiritutal to you doesn't mean it can't be scientificly possible.

Almost everything extrodinary unexplained at first is thought of in a spitirtual or mystical light because people can't comprehend it as anything else but just that.

I think I'll re-write my first post so it's not just an abstract jumble from my mind thats going to be prodded with a stick by a bored 15 year old boy.

boo ya, maybe looking into the only single explanation of life, that can answer your question satisfactorily is the road to your answer. I know what you mean, and your question is being seriously 1.avoided in its totality, or 2."beaten around the bush" by your fellow atheists.
I know the answer to your question,totally, but its not one word, its a whole belief system that you need to hear from start to end, with an open, free thinking mind-

There are many aspects of the human psyche which modern science has yet to figure out. But a simple "I don't know" will suffice. Just because we don't know everything (Death? this is for you) doesn't mean we have to fill in the gaps with "Well god did it". I am no psychologists, and no neuro-biologist or what not, but I'd like to "believe" that who we are is determined by the actions and our choices we take through life. I find it hard to believe that who we are is determined before we were born and instead is in our genes. We've all seen kids that look bright and promising get mixed in with the wrong friends and throw their life down the drain. Who we are is a result of what we do, and to whom, and why? You may not always be able to control where you go in life, but you can control what kind of person you are to people.

I want to know what really makes someone who they are. I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am. How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe? Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place? Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.  


very interesting question posed boo ya.

To sum it up, the word on the tip of your tongue just now is ...Soul.

Look, if our lives were initially dictated only by the bio-chemical structures within or bodies, our genes, electrochemical processes, would we not be acting like lifeless robots? Emotions would not exist, love would also be absent, as would fear and arousal. Its like saying, are u aroused if you take a viagra tablet? According to research, your not, it just keeps it up... so to say.

What im trying to simply state is that, we have not learnt through the centuries to become who we are. Our ancestors died, and took theyr habits with them, they didnt pass the need for women with child bearing hips, or certain facial hairs to be kept down the generations, or through the genes, so that all these habits have accumulated to who we are.

We are unique. God made us that way,in order to recognise his power.

How many billions of people are on earth, and haw many recorded billions have passed away. Have any two faces been perfectly identical? Apply that to the whole of creation! You learn from your parents, and guardians, and it is that what affects your outlook in life until you begin to really think for yourself. We are all unique and individual, that i because God has made us that way.

You have a soul, which will exit your body once the day comes and continue to meet its creator. You cant deny you wont die, would you rather think quite bleakly thats the end, that you will simply be no more and switch off, or do you really have inside you some form of hope that its to your creator you will return. Either way, this short test is gonna be over.

Death? sorry, I know I've been a pain to you in these forums, but there's a question that's been bothering me that I just remembered while reading your posts above on souls.

Someone's soul, as you have described, is independent of their physical body, the body holds the soul until death, then it moves on out of the body to meet the creator. This is my understanding. What happens if someone has a lobotomy, like a piece of the brain is removed in the frontal lobe, the area associated with your personality. There have been lots of cases over the years where this has happened and it used to be almost common medical practice for certain medical conditions. The person survives, they can walk around, but personality wise, they are completely vacant. They become the drooling idiot, but they are still alive. So where is the soul? The soul, their personality, that part of their mind that is uniquely them, where is it, has it left the body to meet the creator leaving the body alive, or is the soul trapped in the brain leaving them unable to communicate?