Happy Atheist Forum

General => Current Events => Topic started by: Bad Penny II on August 17, 2021, 02:00:42 PM

Title: Afghanistan
Post by: Bad Penny II on August 17, 2021, 02:00:42 PM
It was known as the place empires go to die, but we went there anyway.

Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: billy rubin on August 17, 2021, 03:56:32 PM
we had all that we could expect after th efirst two weeks, destrying the al quaeda camps and dispersing the taliban. we should have got out then.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: jumbojak on August 18, 2021, 02:37:28 AM
This is a goddamn disaster and travesty. It didn't have to end this way but it's too late now.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Dark Lightning on August 18, 2021, 03:08:28 AM
This is a goddamn disaster and travesty. It didn't have to end this way but it's too late now.

It was always going to end this way, once it started. It doesn't matter when the invaders left Afghanistan, this would still have been the result. IMO, since the peoples of this region have been killing each other over their differences for 5kY, and even though Islam isn't 5kY old, the mutual hatred and killing are going to continue. I will agree that it is a travesty.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Icarus on August 18, 2021, 04:40:38 AM
We should be wary of meddling in cultures with which we can not relate, agree,  or understand.  Destroying our identifiable enemies is one thing, expecting them to revise their mentality is quite another.

 
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Recusant on August 18, 2021, 05:11:40 AM
We should be wary of meddling in cultures with which we can not relate, agree,  or understand.  Destroying our identifiable enemies is one thing, expecting them to revise their mentality is quite another.

Well said. Though I disagree with you about being able to understand something like the Taliban. They're the usual power-hungry humans, operating under the banner of religious zealotry. Despicable thugs but not mysterious.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: jumbojak on August 18, 2021, 02:59:46 PM
This is a goddamn disaster and travesty. It didn't have to end this way but it's too late now.

It was always going to end this way, once it started. It doesn't matter when the invaders left Afghanistan, this would still have been the result. IMO, since the peoples of this region have been killing each other over their differences for 5kY, and even though Islam isn't 5kY old, the mutual hatred and killing are going to continue. I will agree that it is a travesty.

No. We didn't have to undercut the Afghan military on the way out by grounding their air force. That's exactly what happened when we stopped letting aircraft contractors in the country. We didn't have to walk out the door with ten thousand Americans scattered around Kabul and the rest of the country. And we certainly didn't have to completely abandon the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Afghan allies who were clinging to planes and falling to their deaths after they fucking took off because THAT is preferable to the alternative.

Our allies, all of them will be hunted, tortured, and brutality murdered, along with their families. We left the Intel on who these people are making it easy for the Taliban to do so. It's sickening. Absolutely sickening.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Recusant on August 18, 2021, 06:59:54 PM
A competent large scale withdrawal? That appears to be something the US military is not capable of carrying out. It looks like they completely miscalculated regarding how well the people they'd trained and equipped would stand up to the Taliban. That would have entailed admitting the possibility that all the lives, work, and billions poured into Afghanistan would produce a swift failure. Instead of making a plan that was robust enough to include a bad case scenario, it seems they believed their own propaganda. It's already ugly and it almost certainly will get worse.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Dark Lightning on August 18, 2021, 08:06:20 PM
Winding down from a war where accord has not been reached and getting people out is always an issue. I'll put this news clipping here, just for another take on Afghanistan.

(https://i.imgur.com/HzSwZqk.png)
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on August 19, 2021, 05:09:57 PM
Biden could have done a better job on the withdrawal. We could never get everyone out, but we could have done what we are doing now before withdrawing our troops.  I have no problem with getting out - it was never going to be an actual democratic nation.  But now it appears we have betrayed our friends, just like we did with the Kurds.  Who will ever want to cooperate with us now?
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Icarus on August 19, 2021, 10:45:37 PM
The result of the klutzy withdrawal may have some long term effects here at home. The GOP types will feast on the screw ups of this Democrat administration.  Dems may take a decisive beating in the next two elections, 2022 and 2024.

Let us pray that DJT is not still ambitious on November 2024. With a little bit of luck, the gophers on his golf courses may eat him before the presidential election is held.  Black Mambas in each hole ? Never mind...........If Trump does not run, then DeSantis, Abbot, or Jim Jordon may.  Horrors!
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: billy rubin on August 19, 2021, 11:56:46 PM
the withdrawal was his idea. he traded 5000 taliban pows, for nothing, as i recall.

he wanted us out by may, but made no efforts to do so
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Magdalena on August 20, 2021, 07:13:18 AM
The result of the klutzy withdrawal may have some long term effects here at home. The GOP types will feast on the screw ups of this Democrat administration.  Dems may take a decisive beating in the next two elections, 2022 and 2024.

Let us pray that DJT is not still ambitious on November 2024. With a little bit of luck, the gophers on his golf courses may eat him before the presidential election is held.  Black Mambas in each hole ? Never mind...........If Trump does not run, then DeSantis, Abbot, or Jim Jordon may.  Horrors!
OR...Or...or...Marjorie Taylor Greene, Stephen Miller, Ted Cruz, The MyPillow guy!!!

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l41Ye7i203TfEADYs/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9520953357254b47c156f697a6874618061b2c51014&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: jumbojak on August 20, 2021, 04:29:22 PM
Winding down from a war where accord has not been reached and getting people out is always an issue. I'll put this news clipping here, just for another take on Afghanistan.

(https://i.imgur.com/HzSwZqk.png)

The Soviet backed regime stumbled on until finally falling in 1992. So basically, the Soviets had a better grasp of a withdrawal then than Biden does now, and that was while facing US backed forces.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: jumbojak on August 20, 2021, 04:31:54 PM
Biden could have done a better job on the withdrawal. We could never get everyone out, but we could have done what we are doing now before withdrawing our troops.  I have no problem with getting out - it was never going to be an actual democratic nation.  But now it appears we have betrayed our friends, just like we did with the Kurds.  Who will ever want to cooperate with us now?

No one will be willing to cooperate with us. Right now China is taking the lead in international influence. And if you're a small country it only makes sense to strike deals with China. The US is weak and unreliable.
Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: billy rubin on August 21, 2021, 04:30:31 PM
we have a very narrow window.

the taliban are still stewing about, surprised that they conquored afghanistan like this and trying to figureout what to do with it.

i support biden getting our military out, but i think it is more important to get the afghani interpreters, drivers, clerks, housemaids, and gardeners out before we leave.

when my sister lived in islamabad, her household had a cook, a house keeper, two drivers, a gardener, and two armed guards. seven people who worked for her household. it was expected that the foreigners would employ pakistanis as part of their responsibilities as wealthy diplomats in the country.

afghanistan is no differentt, and all these ordinary people are now at risk as collaborators. we need to get them out.

my county has a population density of 123 people per square mile. they can come here.

biden is on international notice now. if he suspends the ithdrawal deadline and concentrates on getting the peopl ein kabul and those still in-country out of afghanistan, he can neutralize the fallout for leaving afghanistan to the afghans. but he has to do better at getting them out. that means cranking up the evacuation while the taliban are still preoccupied with figuring out how the telephones work.

Title: Re: Afghanistan
Post by: Icarus on August 23, 2021, 06:48:40 AM
And there is the Brain Drain that is happening right now.  The intelligent and/or educated people are clamoring to get the hell out of Their country. 

The Taliban may very well subjugate the women, some of which are valuable assets to the orderly existence of their society. Sharia law, as the Taliban interpret it, is a recipe for continued mediocrity. Allah has cast a plague upon them..........and the Talibs do not appear to know it.