Cards on the table

[ACSlater]

So, I just thought I'd put my thoughts out:

There's not many scriptures I could quote right off the top of my head, and I can't claim to have done extensive research for or against evidence of God, a heaven, hell, or what have you. The scientific studies that I come across only lead to more curiosity and excitement as to what will be discovered next about this planet and all that extends beyond its reaches.

My whole belief in God started as a result of what I was taught as a child. The best thing that ever happened to me, however, was when I was about 14 and went to a different church from my parents. The reason it was such a pivotal time for me is because it was no longer "mommy and daddy's religion". I began to understand things apart from what seemed to be rules and focused on what seemed more like a relationship. I guess you could say that I became more spiritual in my growth during this time. I started to become more sensitive and in tune to what goes beyond my senses. The way a parent can tell when something is wrong with their child; the way I can hear hello in my wife's voice and tell whether everything is okay or not is the best way I can draw a parallel to how I feel spiritually. The problem I get to a lot is trying to convey these reasons of my beliefs to those that do not believe what I do, which is a challenge I'm trying to overcome. The obvious reason is that among those that share an understanding about something, there is a way to articulate it through terms that are familiar among the parties.  It's a bit of a language barrier I guess. I tend to relate my beliefs to results of experiences I've encountered personally, but I wonder if that will pull me into a circular logic that I hear that some Christians do?

Now, what type of experiences can I mention? There's one in particular that happened over a year ago:
I finished playing a couple of gigs one night and my fiance (currently my wife as of March 14, 2009, hoorah for me!)and I were talking to another musician friend of mine as he loaded his car. Two older men passed us and 20 feet later the older of the two began to cuss and have a tantrum. The younger one asked what was his problem to which the other replied, "He's black and she's white and that's f*cked up!!" "That's not right!!" The younger one continued to walk him away. My initial reaction wasn't anger, but total surprise. I'd not been on the receiving end of such racist action before. We all walked away from it, but my fiance was furious. The next day is when I began to think about it and that surprise turned into regret of not saying or doing something. That regret then began to turn into anger. I was angry I didn't say anything (which probably would have led to an altercation with unwanted results and lowered me to his level), and I was angry that we just walked away (the old "turn the other cheek mentality"). I didn't want that to be what turned my heart hard and make me bitter. So, I prayed. Yes, what would be a slew of meaningless words to some, was a sincere outcry to forgive. I was looking for a grace to be able to really forgive and release what laid heavy on my heart. I even prayed that maybe some day the man who spewed such myopic opinions would maybe have his eyes opened a bit more. As soon as my lips stopped moving from that prayer a burden was lifted from me that felt as real as the weights I lift at the gym. Herein lies my earlier predicament: I can in no way make someone experience what that was like, nor can I provide evidence of what I felt happened. The only thing I know is that I'm at peace with what happened that night. I can talk about it from a positive perspective because I know what the end result of it is.

So, my belief in God may seem like a crutch or a sign of weakness to some individuals, but I'm not afraid to believe in something that I trust and seems to come through and is a source of strength for me. As my wife is a great support for me, this belief we have in God is just as real to us. Unfortunately, I can't quantify it. So, maybe all of this is to just say that at this time do not have the right words to really bridge the gap between believers and non-believers. Heck, sometimes I don't even think I have the words to bridge the gap of a believe that abides by specific doctrine. Haha. As long as we make an attempt to understand instead of judge and condemn, maybe we'll shorten that gap. Who knows.

If you've been patient enough to read this, I appreciate your time. Feel free to comment or ask me anything. I just thought I'd put myself out there is all.
Thanks

[curiosityandthecat]

I'm in an interracial relationship, too. Haven't had that happen... yet. Hoping it never will.

You're probably expecting answers like "That praying you did was really just you working through it on your own" and the like. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't change the effect, so, hey, man, whatever works.

[McQ]

That's a great story you've shared with us, and I appreciate you doing so. No matter what you or I or anyone else believes about why you were able to come to a feeling of peace about this, just the fact that you did is a great and positive thing. I have had the same feeling of a sense of peace and calm wash over me just from meditation (not candles and incense and "Ommmmm" type of meditation), and also from sitting outside, clearing my mind of troubles and issues. It is a powerful feeling. Whether or not we quantify it doesn't affect its reality to us at the time. That's ok.

I come at the "why" it happens and the "how" it happens from a different belief, since I know that a combination of powerful chemicals in our brains, coupled with the ability to reason, can create this type of feeling. In day to day life, it doesn't really matter why, just that we can do this. If this were a class in cognitive function, biochemistry, or such, then it would be worth diving into, but just sharing stories like this, I see no need to dissect it, but to just be happy for it.

Sorry to hear yet another example of racist action though. Still looking for the day when it finally dawns on the last of the bigots that we are all human beings.  

And congratulations on your engagement!

[Ihateyoumike]

Thanks for sharing your story. It's too bad that there are people out there who cannot look past the color of one's skin. I am not a happy atheist when I think about those people, I tell ya. There are just certain forms of ignorance that can get me into an internal rage, and that is one of them. Good for you for not being confrontational, I fear I would not have gotten out of that situation without a physical altercation.  

Congratulations are due for you as well in getting married.

As for your experience with the prayer, I'm with Curio on this one. I was going to add my own thoughts, but quoting Curio would state what I was thinking even better:

You're probably expecting answers like "That praying you did was really just you working through it on your own" and the like. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't change the effect, so, hey, man, whatever works.

[ACSlater]

I'm in an interracial relationship, too. Haven't had that happen... yet. Hoping it never will.

You're probably expecting answers like "That praying you did was really just you working through it on your own" and the like. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't change the effect, so, hey, man, whatever works.

You know, I didn't know what to expect, but all the replies I'm receiving are quite encouraging. As far as your rings coming in, if you're like me you'll want to wear them immediately. Hahaha. Thanks again.

[ACSlater]

Thanks for sharing your story. It's too bad that there are people out there who cannot look past the color of one's skin. I am not a happy atheist when I think about those people, I tell ya. There are just certain forms of ignorance that can get me into an internal rage, and that is one of them. Good for you for not being confrontational, I fear I would not have gotten out of that situation without a physical altercation.  

Congratulations are due for you as well in getting married.

As for your experience with the prayer, I'm with Curio on this one. I was going to add my own thoughts, but quoting Curio would state what I was thinking even better:

You're probably expecting answers like "That praying you did was really just you working through it on your own" and the like. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't change the effect, so, hey, man, whatever works.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the congratulations as well! I know what you mean about that internal rage, it's just one of those things that should make anyone flare up, but hey, however I was able to handle to keep from going to jail that night for beating sense into someone is well worth it.

Thanks again

[McQ]

I'm in an interracial relationship, too. Haven't had that happen... yet. Hoping it never will.

You're probably expecting answers like "That praying you did was really just you working through it on your own" and the like. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't change the effect, so, hey, man, whatever works.

Hey, that's great news! I'm excited for you two. A toast to all you happy couples out there!  

[Tom62]

[Hey, that's great news! I'm excited for you two. A toast to all you happy couples out there!  

[SallyMutant]

It's good of you to share this experience with us, but I don't see why you are here unless you're here to proselytize. There are zillions of sane Christian sites where this would be welcomed . I love sane christians--they do good, think good.

[ACSlater]

It's good of you to share this experience with us, but I don't see why you are here unless you're here to proselytize. There are zillions of sane Christian sites where this would be welcomed . I love sane christians--they do good, think good.

I think the best way to understand one another and how others think is to ask. Why wonder what others think when I can just ask for myself, right? I don't think I'm one to be able to convert anyone on here especially when this isn't the point of this forum. I like the fact that this forum requires mutual respect and not petty attacks on someone. You can actually have a civil discussion here unlike some other sites. The only reason I shared this was a way to give my perspective on my way to understanding others. I was wanting the story to be just a support to my explaining where I'm coming from, but I am starting to think the prayer portion is sticking out more on its own than the entire passage as a whole.

That is a very encouraging statement you closed with, but I must say that I've been fortunate enough to interact with many people with good hearts.

[Twiddler]

I think the best way to understand one another and how others think is to ask. Why wonder what others think when I can just ask for myself, right? I don't think I'm one to be able to convert anyone on here especially when this isn't the point of this forum. I like the fact that this forum requires mutual respect and not petty attacks on someone. You can actually have a civil discussion here unlike some other sites. The only reason I shared this was a way to give my perspective on my way to understanding others. I was wanting the story to be just a support to my explaining where I'm coming from, but I am starting to think the prayer portion is sticking out more on its own than the entire passage as a whole.

That is a very encouraging statement you closed with, but I must say that I've been fortunate enough to interact with many people with good hearts.

I continue to be impressed by your civility regarding these matters.  As an atheist who has felt condemned by believers in the past because of my beliefs, I cannot express to you how much I appreciate it.

Now, in response to your original post, I can definitely understand where you are coming from when you talk of prayer and how it helps you.  I've gone through points of believing in God in my life and the power of prayer is definitely real.  The point where we differ, is that I believe that prayer is powerful because of the human mind and you believe it is powerful because of God (I think that would be the way to put it, its up to you).

[Ihateyoumike]

I continue to be impressed by your civility regarding these matters.  As an atheist who has felt condemned by believers in the past because of my beliefs, I cannot express to you how much I appreciate it.

I second that.

I won't lie, I have a bit of a discrimination issue when I see "christian" in the worldview of a new member here. I tend to think, "here we go again." Keep this civility up, and you might just help me get over that.  

[Whitney]

I am also impressed...for whatever reason, the civil Christians don't tend to choose to come over to atheist forums.  So, this is refreshing.

[ACSlater]

I think the best way to understand one another and how others think is to ask. Why wonder what others think when I can just ask for myself, right? I don't think I'm one to be able to convert anyone on here especially when this isn't the point of this forum. I like the fact that this forum requires mutual respect and not petty attacks on someone. You can actually have a civil discussion here unlike some other sites. The only reason I shared this was a way to give my perspective on my way to understanding others. I was wanting the story to be just a support to my explaining where I'm coming from, but I am starting to think the prayer portion is sticking out more on its own than the entire passage as a whole.

That is a very encouraging statement you closed with, but I must say that I've been fortunate enough to interact with many people with good hearts.

I continue to be impressed by your civility regarding these matters.  As an atheist who has felt condemned by believers in the past because of my beliefs, I cannot express to you how much I appreciate it.

Now, in response to your original post, I can definitely understand where you are coming from when you talk of prayer and how it helps you.  I've gone through points of believing in God in my life and the power of prayer is definitely real.  The point where we differ, is that I believe that prayer is powerful because of the human mind and you believe it is powerful because of God (I think that would be the way to put it, its up to you).

Your last sentence reminds me of a movie my wife watched at a business meeting at her job called "The Secret". It's not a religious movie, but I think that anyone can put their perspective into the outcomes of the individuals' lives. From what I gather from a synopsis, (forgive me because I've yet to watch it myself), it's about putting out a positive energy or vibe out there and believing in it strongly enough so that it becomes reality. It's much like what you said with prayer being a power of the mind. I completely understand where you're coming from though.

[ACSlater]

I really do appreciate everyone being as supportive as they have been to me on this forum. A lot of what I read depending on the subject really motivates me to think deeper and just expand on what I've learned in the past. If nothing else, just hearing from positive people and sharing knowledge with each other is just a large part of the human experience I love most.

Speaking of sharing knowledge, I love to cook, so I need to start a thread of why my orange chicken dish rocks harder than a restaurant's. (Uh oh, there's that sin of pride rearing its head. Hahaha)

Cheers everyone.