If you had to disprove God/'Intelligent Design"...

[joeactor]

I also do not define god (or for that matter even think god is definable).

Then what do you mean by "I believe there is a god"? You must have some vague idea of what you mean by "god" or else it would be meaningless to say that you think that it exists.

Exists?  So begins the definition of god...

I have a feeling, if you will, of something greater than ourselves.
Does god exist in the normal sense?  I don't know.
Did god create the universe?  I don't know.
Is the universe god?  I don't know.

... and neither does anyone else, IMHO.

Meaningless?  Sure.  If you're looking to define god.  I'm not.  I just believe.

"What am I doing?  I'm being.",
JoeActor

[Hitsumei]

I have a feeling, if you will, of something greater than ourselves.

In what sense, and by what standard?

Does god exist in the normal sense?  I don't know.

What is the operative word here? "God" or "exist"? If it is god, then I don't know what the normal sense is, and if it is exist, then I'm not sure what would constitute an abnormal ontology.

Did god create the universe?  I don't know.

I still don't know what you mean by god, though since you are a theist, I presume that you believe it to be the case.

Is the universe god?  I don't know.

Again, I don't know what you mean by god, and since you are a theist, I presume that you believe this not to be the case. Also, the universe is not a thing in and of itself, is the compilation of all things known and supposed to exist throughout space/time. If "the universe" were god, then everything and nothing is.

I am not attempting to trap you, or even attempt to disagree with your conception, I understand that you don't claim to know, I am just curious about your musings.

... and neither does anyone else, IMHO.

But, I presume that you don't claim to know whether or not anyone else knows?  

[joeactor]

In what sense, and by what standard?
...
What is the operative word here? "God" or "exist"? If it is god, then I don't know what the normal sense is, and if it is exist, then I'm not sure what would constitute an abnormal ontology.
...
I still don't know what you mean by god, though since you are a theist, I presume that you believe it to be the case.
...
Again, I don't know what you mean by god, and since you are a theist, I presume that you believe this not to be the case. Also, the universe is not a thing in and of itself, is the compilation of all things known and supposed to exist throughout space/time. If "the universe" were god, then everything and nothing is.

Your questions, by their very nature, are an attempt to define god.
By attempting to define god I would cease to be an agnostic.
My definition would be testable, and therefore fall into the realm of (potential) knowledge.

... and neither does anyone else, IMHO.

But, I presume that you don't claim to know whether or not anyone else knows?  

!  Yuppers  !  Abso-lutely!  ;-)

I still feel that my original question was not answered, so I still don't understand how this can be.

You are correct.  I don't have an answer.  That's kinda my point.

"What am I doing?  I'm being."

"being" is not an action, it isn't something things "do", it is a state of affairs.

"I Am That I Am" - God

"I Yam What I Yam" - Popeye

"I Am Being" - JoeActor

[templeboy]

Joe, to me, the word "theist" implies belief in a specific deity. All you have said is that you have some vague sense that there is some sort of power greater than you. Would it not be more accurate to term yourself a deist?

*Stops self in mid-post, and looks up deist on wikipedia*

Deism is a philosophical belief in the existence of a God on the basis of reason,

OK, now, that is not the basis of your belief...so maybe theist is infact a better term...

*Goes off into corner and mumbles under breath  :upset:

[bowmore]

Don't bother trying.You can't disprove a negative.

Yes you can.

Negative : "There is no number greater than 2."

Disproof by counter example : 3.

 

[joeactor]

Don't bother trying.You can't disprove a negative.

Yes you can.

Negative : "There is no number greater than 2."
Disproof by counter example : 3.

Indeed... in fact, here's a great 4-page little primer on the topic:
http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosoph ... gative.pdf

(props to Steven Hales, professor of philosophy at Bloomsburg University, Pennsylvania)

[McQ]

Don't bother trying.You can't disprove a negative.

Yes you can.

Negative : "There is no number greater than 2."
Disproof by counter example : 3.

Indeed... in fact, here's a great 4-page little primer on the topic:
http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosoph ... gative.pdf

(props to Steven Hales, professor of philosophy at Bloomsburg University, Pennsylvania)

I corresponded with Dr. Hales for a brief time a couple of years ago. Good guy. Somewhere in here I posted something of that, but I won't even try to find it.

I think it's funny how Joe and I have very similar beliefs, yet pin different labels on ourselves. That has no implication whatsoever that I think Joe's self-definition is wrong. In fact, I find it quite tenable. I think my label is pretty flexible in that I use the general term Atheist, but am really more of an Apatheist, and live like an Agnostic, or maybe even an Apagnostic if there is such a thing. I don't know there is no god or gods, but I'd bet money there isn't, and additionally, I don't really care.  

But I love to learn about the universe and everything in it, and if I ever find out there is something of a god somewhere I guess I'd change my opinions.

[Godschild]

WOW! I wasn't expecting such a response,it will take some time to digest all this.I do want to add this about myself.I am a Creationist and I am not religious I do not like religion because it detracts from God.Religion belongs to all the other gods people have in there lives what ever they may be.So when I refer to God it will be the One who created all things,the God of the Holy Bible.I have a personal relationship with God,I know to those who do not believe,this is hard to understand.
  Hey PipeBox come out from under the chair your opinions and beliefs are always welcome.
  templeboy how can you reduce something I can not prove and how can you reduce something you can not disprove.
   JoeActor I do know the God of creation look at it this way,you can't see it but you believe in it because you can fill it and see the results of its action and so you know there is wind.For me I can not see God but I do believe in Him because I fill Him in my life and I see His actions all around me so I know there is God.
                                                      to all love in Christ Jesus

[joeactor]

I think it's funny how Joe and I have very similar beliefs, yet pin different labels on ourselves. That has no implication whatsoever that I think Joe's self-definition is wrong. In fact, I find it quite tenable. I think my label is pretty flexible in that I use the general term Atheist, but am really more of an Apatheist, and live like an Agnostic, or maybe even an Apagnostic if there is such a thing. I don't know there is no god or gods, but I'd bet money there isn't, and additionally, I don't really care.  

But I love to learn about the universe and everything in it, and if I ever find out there is something of a god somewhere I guess I'd change my opinions.

Yeah, very similar...

We just fell on different sides of Occam's razor ;-)

[Kylyssa]

Kylyssa: says that some blankity blank came up with a very stupid idea, since Kylyssa believes in evolution that argument falls back on evolution,sorry evolution must be the blankity blank.
    Wraitchel: say you agree with Kylyssa,that evolution is not cutting the mustard.
    thirteen31: says I like the way Kylyssa thinks, Kylyssa said evolution messed up the poor four legged creatures.

Since evolution has no intelligence driving it, it's unsurprising that things are not "well designed" - because they aren't designed at all!  That is the entire point.

Life on earth has so many, many faults that only a very stupid or cruel being would design it that way.

But there's no cruel and/or stupid designer - there's no designer at all.  Evolution doesn't design.  Evolution is the description of a process, not a thing in and of itself.  It's like erosion.  Erosion isn't a thing, it is a process.

We're stuck with faulty, sometimes hilariously sad bodies precisely because they were not designed.  We're an amazing gobble-de-gook of patchwork bits and pieces that is incredibly fragile.

[dohboy3000]

Just started a new blog to discuss Ricky Gervais and his views on Atheism

theworldofrickygervais.blogspot.com/

[karadan]

Just started a new blog to discuss Ricky Gervais and his views on Atheism

theworldofrickygervais.blogspot.com

Wtf dude?

5 posts of exactly the same thing?

[Heretical Rants]

[li]If God is all-knowing then he cannot be free willed, since he cannot make a choice other than what he already knows he will make, therefore he is not all-powerful.

I like the idea of applying predestination to God.

I'll have to use it next time I talk to a Calvinist.

[Atrax Robustus]

WOW! I wasn't expecting such a response,it will take some time to digest all this.I do want to add this about myself.I am a Creationist and I am not religious I do not like religion because it detracts from God.Religion belongs to all the other gods people have in there lives what ever they may be.So when I refer to God it will be the One who created all things,the God of the Holy Bible.I have a personal relationship with God,I know to those who do not believe,this is hard to understand.
  Hey PipeBox come out from under the chair your opinions and beliefs are always welcome.
  templeboy how can you reduce something I can not prove and how can you reduce something you can not disprove.
   JoeActor I do know the God of creation look at it this way,you can't see it but you believe in it because you can fill it and see the results of its action and so you know there is wind.For me I can not see God but I do believe in Him because I fill Him in my life and I see His actions all around me so I know there is God.
                                                      to all love in Christ Jesus

What is it with Creationists?  Do they have a propensity for keyboards with faulty spacebars?  Then - even with spaces embedded to allow tired eyes to read the blather it is always a chore - almost like trying to speed read a Dostoyevsky novel!  No matter where you go on the interwebz they are all the same!

For gawdsake creos and IDers - learn how to use your opposable thumbs already!  I don't care if you think god designed 'em or they evolved - just use 'em!  Once you've got that mastered, a little bit of attention to detail, remedial grammar and sentence construction will be gratefully appreciated.