Western culture is known for its scientific tradition, but for a long time there was a major islamic scientific tradition, which sadly isn't common knowledge. There was a documentary about it a few months ago, and it was really interesting. Has anyone looked into the scientific tradition of islam?
I've come across it a few times. Scientific discovery is perfectly ok in Islamic tradition. As far as I recall the argument goes something like this. One can not know the mind of God. All science can do is reveal the will of God. The Quran is the revealed word of God. Thus scientific discoveries can not contradict the Quran only improve our understanding of it. What appears to be a contradiction (between a discovery and what the Quran says) is simply ignorance on the part of fallible humans of what the Quran actually meant. This is a wonderful example of 'double-think' but it allowed Islamic scientists freedom from dogma.
The problem comes that Islamic countries never got into the virtuous circle of science>technology>science>technology where scientific discovery informed technology which led to better instruments and thus progress in science. So after the enlightenment the technical and later industrial collaboration with science allowed 'The West' to dominate the scientific arena.
Tractors are really cool they've got big wheels at the back and smaller ones at the front.
Has anyone looked into why this is so?
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on July 27, 2011, 04:17:44 PM
Tractors are really cool they've got big wheels at the back and smaller ones at the front.
Has anyone looked into why this is so?
The answer to that question can be found here: http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080202084607AAmgn7Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_medieval_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_in_medieval_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_in_medieval_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy_and_chemistry_in_medieval_Islam
They were quite the little busy bees in history.
This is certainly true, however it didn't arise because of Islam it was already happening in the region before Islam came to power. Like all the old studies of mathematics, astrology, alchemy, medicine and the others it wasn't science as we know today and more a philosophy by today's standards, for example Galileo Galilei is credited for heliocentrism but there are older proposals of this idea the difference between them and Galileo is he used evidence to back up his claims through observation and testing whilst also improving on the old theories, it is also the reason why he is considered one of the father of modern science.
You also have to be wary of a lot of the Islamic claims of "we thought it first" as you can usually find older cultures that came to the same conclusion much earlier (usually the Greek and the Chinese), but it doesn't really matter if they did or didn't as the Islamic world didn't really do anything with the discoveries.
The reason I used heliocentrism as the example is that the Islamic community say "we thought it first" however that is completely false as there are recordings of the idea by Aristarchus of Samos sometime between 310 BC – ca. 230 BC. Also the individuals from the Islamic world that came to the heliocentric conclusion were incapable of shifting thought from the geocentric model.
Quote from: Crow on August 03, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
This is certainly true, however it didn't arise because of Islam it was already happening in the region before Islam came to power. Like all the old studies of mathematics, astrology, alchemy, medicine and the others it wasn't science as we know today and more a philosophy by today's standards, for example Galileo Galilei is credited for heliocentrism but there are older proposals of this idea the difference between them and Galileo is he used evidence to back up his claims through observation and testing whilst also improving on the old theories, it is also the reason why he is considered one of the father of modern science.
You also have to be wary of a lot of the Islamic claims of "we thought it first" as you can usually find older cultures that came to the same conclusion much earlier (usually the Greek and the Chinese), but it doesn't really matter if they did or didn't as the Islamic world didn't really do anything with the discoveries.
The reason I used heliocentrism as the example is that the Islamic community say "we thought it first" however that is completely false as there are recordings of the idea by Aristarchus of Samos sometime between 310 BC – ca. 230 BC. Also the individuals from the Islamic world that came to the heliocentric conclusion were incapable of shifting thought from the geocentric model.
Well you are more then welcome to go through the entire list and prove every single one.
Good luck.
I'm a fan of islamic science during the medieval ages. Then Christianity came along with its mostly pointless philosophising. ;D
Edit: especially since they were way ahead of their contemporary counterparts.
True. Plus they are quite well ahead in giving rights to women. Look at Indonesia. The number one population for Muslims has a female president. Not to mention their presence in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Turkey and Egypt.
What. We have Sarah Palin as a contender? Pft. :P
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 06, 2011, 05:50:37 PM
I'm a fan of islamic science during the medieval ages. Then Christianity came along with its mostly pointless philosophising. ;D
Edit: especially since they were way ahead of their contemporary counterparts.
I gather that the operative word here is "were". I have read that at some point, muslim societies abandoned science in favour of ignorance and superstition while western societies gradually (the process is still going on) abandoned ignorance and superstition in favour of science.
Quote from: Looncall on August 11, 2011, 01:16:10 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 06, 2011, 05:50:37 PM
I'm a fan of islamic science during the medieval ages. Then Christianity came along with its mostly pointless philosophising. ;D
Edit: especially since they were way ahead of their contemporary counterparts.
I gather that the operative word here is "were". I have read that at some point, muslim societies abandoned science in favour of ignorance and superstition while western societies gradually (the process is still going on) abandoned ignorance and superstition in favour of science.
Correct. That statement only applied to the medieval age.
Yeah, they were way ahead of the "West" until one of their philosophers scared them all back into ignorance.
You can't say that they didn't accomplish anything, though. They kept quite a bit of knowledge alive while Europe was being stupid with their little "dark ages" thing they had going on.
I think it's completely incorrect to just assume Islam was technologically advanced up till the middle ages and then just descended into barbaric times. A few minutes just surfing the internet will correct that misconception.
ok
We are talking relative to other cultures, though, right?
What about India?
Also, crap, I gave a presentation about this at my local community college. Hope I didn't screw it up too royally :(
It was a math class, not a history class, though.
I don't think there is any such thing as 'Islamic Science' or for that matter any 'Theistic Science'. Theism is based on belief and adherence to orthodoxy, it is essentially institutionalised superstition. Science is based on qualifying and understanding reality, it is essentially institutionalised curiosity. Science has nothing whatsoever to do with theism, it is the absolute antithesis of theism. Science flourished under Islam whilst it suffered under Christianity because the Muslims valued knowledge while Christians at the time, did not.
Science transcends theology. E=mc2 is not a theistic statement. It is a secular scientific statement of fact. The fact that Einstein was a Jew has no intrinsic linkage to the equation. The Jewish culture in Germany at the turn of the century may have facilitated Einstein's work and discovery, but that does not make his discovery 'Jewish'.