Dr. Melvin Morse finds NDEs in children to be same as adults

[Velma]

there are many NDE cases where a child below age 10 will have an NDE, which is exactly the same as an adult case. They will see a tunnel, a light, Jesus, Mary, some report sitting on Jesus's lap, etc. How could.a 4 year old who doesn't know he or she is about to die (let's say they drown or get hit by a.car from behind) have an OBE and see all this religious imagery? My guess would have been that they might have seen a tunnel and light as that could be a biological factor of what the brain does under stress, and maybe their parents kind of swayed them into the whole Jesus direction? These kids have interviews and can be found all over the internet. However, we are told that the kids tell the nurse right after the experience so that the kids.could not have told their parents. I know some may lie, but assuming some don't intentionally lie, what would you say about that? Dr. Morse did tests on kids who were on meds and drugs and not near death, found they didn't have the same experiences.

My thinking is that by the time a child is old enough to be articulate enough to describe a supposed NDE, they've absorbed enough of the prevailing culture to describe a stereotypical NDE for that culture. Here in the US, "seeing a bright light and all your dead relatives" is practically a punchline after someone has been through even something as minor as a fender bender in a parking lot.

From what I've read, knowledge of impending death is not what leads to an NDE. It s some sort of major physical event, whether accident or illness, that leads to major physical stress. We barely understand how the brain works during normal day-to-day events, much less during an event that turns out to be life-threatening. If you are looking for evidence that we have souls, brain-malfunctions are not the place to look.

[Arturo]

there are many NDE cases where a child below age 10 will have an NDE, which is exactly the same as an adult case. They will see a tunnel, a light, Jesus, Mary, some report sitting on Jesus's lap, etc. How could.a 4 year old who doesn't know he or she is about to die (let's say they drown or get hit by a.car from behind) have an OBE and see all this religious imagery? My guess would have been that they might have seen a tunnel and light as that could be a biological factor of what the brain does under stress, and maybe their parents kind of swayed them into the whole Jesus direction? These kids have interviews and can be found all over the internet. However, we are told that the kids tell the nurse right after the experience so that the kids.could not have told their parents. I know some may lie, but assuming some don't intentionally lie, what would you say about that? Dr. Morse did tests on kids who were on meds and drugs and not near death, found they didn't have the same experiences.

My thinking is that by the time a child is old enough to be articulate enough to describe a supposed NDE, they've absorbed enough of the prevailing culture to describe a stereotypical NDE for that culture. Here in the US, "seeing a bright light and all your dead relatives" is practically a punchline after someone has been through even something as minor as a fender bender in a parking lot.

From what I've read, knowledge of impending death is not what leads to an NDE. It s some sort of major physical event, whether accident or illness, that leads to major physical stress. We barely understand how the brain works during normal day-to-day events, much less during an event that turns out to be life-threatening. If you are looking for evidence that we have souls, brain-malfunctions are not the place to look.

This is the same problem that arose during a group meeting last Thursday at the community center. A few people described psychotic experiences that have had and then this other girl says that it is the devil. They respond by saying it's brain chemistry but she insists it's satan. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to offend people with my athiesm and plus I wasn't looking to start an argument. It's some issue that I think I will have to address in the near future, yet am totally unprepared for it.

However, on a somewhat unrelated note, I remember my step mother saying that when she mentally abused me, that my sadness was of God telling me I'm "wrong" but yet when I retaliated she said it's the devil. Later on she just blamed everything on me. She couldn't send a clear message of whether it was me that had the problem, was it God telling me I have a problem, or was it the devil trying to make me a problem. Really all it was, was my reaction in my head toward the way she treated me. It didn't matter what the explanation was as long as I was the one being vinilinized.

[xSilverPhinx]

This reminds me of the time I watched a vid of a boy recounting his NDE in which he saw a manifestation of blond blue-eyed Jesus, the image of Jesus hanging on his wall. I'm too lazy to dig up the video on Youtube.

A middle eastern blond, blue-eyed Jesus.

Think about that for a second. 

[Davin]

There is also this kid who claimed to visit heaven:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/

Referring to the injuries that continue to make it difficult for him to express himself, Alex writes, “Please forgive the brevity, but because of my limitations I have to keep this short. … I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough. The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible.”

[Icarus]

A blond, blue eyed Jesus xSP?

Everyone knows that he was a caucasian, probably  Scandinavian with a visa and passport for  the holy land. Asmo's cousin perhaps.

[Dragonia]

There is also this kid who claimed to visit heaven:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/

Referring to the injuries that continue to make it difficult for him to express himself, Alex writes, “Please forgive the brevity, but because of my limitations I have to keep this short. … I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. They should read the Bible, which is enough. The Bible is the only source of truth. Anything written by man cannot be infallible.”

OK, first, I think it's pretty funny that this kid's last name is Malarkey! Ha ha ha..... oh, the perfection of that. 

But what is very interesting about this story is that this boy and his mother had been trying to tell the publisher  (Lifeway) that he made it all up for attention, and none of it is true. And Lifeway has given ridiculous excuses as to why it took SO long to take action on this, but really, its all about the Benjamins . It was a bestselling book and of course they didn't want to staunch that flow, so they ignored the author and continued to allow millions of people to be misled.
Bottom line: TRUTH    MONEY

[Davin]

I have no problem with people trying to make money, but there has to be some lines drawn about what lengths one should go to in order to obtain it. In my view, that kind of dishonesty is over the line.

[Dragonia]

I also have no problem with making money. I love money, and I'm not nearly rich enough. I am even fine with shadier ways of making money, as long as people are not made into victims in the process. However, the entire Christian Book Store industry irritates the shit out of me. Maybe it's because I know there's so much dishonesty and hypocrisy in this niche.
 Maybe I'm just missing my opportunity to make a mint.  Hell, I know what the main demographic wants from their Christian bookstores, I could seriously be writing devotionals and Bible studies and designing cross jewelry to go with the book for "free".
It's just a business, no matter how "they" want to package it.
I feel like I'm rambling......

[Icarus]

Dragonia you certainly could make money by writing Jesus books.  Your well written posts here on HAF place your ability as a writer and a thinker considerably above the tripe that occupies the shelves of Christian book stores.  I do not go to those stores but I do go to Books a Million. Having browsed a few of the Jesus books on their shelves, I am almost ashamed at the apparent popularity of books written by authors with junior high school level writer talent.   When I have been so adventurous as to thumb through one of those books, it causes me to remember the famous: Father forgive them for they know not what they do.   Or in the more modern vernacular; WTF?

[Dragonia]

Ha ha, thanks Icarus.
And yeah, WTF????? just fits better. 

[Recusant]

Altogether a sad story. I wonder if manga, following his relentless interest in this topic, has come across it.

"‘The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ now wants his day in court" | The Washington Post, via MSN

On Nov. 14, 2004, as 6-year-old Alex Malarkey drove home with his father Kevin in rural Ohio, a left turn nearly took his life. As Kevin turned the car it collided with another vehicle, and the boy’s skull became completely detached from his spinal cord.

But Alex did not die — and that’s the central fact behind a long-running controversy that has now led to a lawsuit.

Two months after the crash, Alex emerged from a coma as a quadriplegic. The injured boy also began telling family and friends about traveling to heaven and meeting Jesus and Satan.

In July 2010, Kevin and Alex Malarkey penned an account of the boy’s religious experience, “The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven.” The book was published by Tyndale House, a publisher of Christian books. It went on to reportedly move more than 1 million copies and spent months on the New York Times bestseller’s list. The book was part of a bumper crop of similarly geared narratives — tales of near-death experiences and brushes with the Almighty published by religious imprints.

Then it all fell apart. In January 2015, Alex, now paralyzed from the neck down, admitted he had fabricated the story.

“I did not die,” he wrote in a blog post. “I did not go to Heaven. I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention.”

The admission created a firestorm within the worlds of evangelical faith and Christian publishing. The controversy was revived this week when Alex — now 20 years old and living off Social Security — filed a lawsuit against Tyndale House in Illinois’s DuPage County, where the publisher is located. The complaint alleges Kevin Malarkey was the main actor behind the fabrication.

“Kevin Malarkey … concocted a story that, during the time Alex was in a coma, he had gone to Heaven, communicated with God the Father, Jesus, angels, and the devil, and then returned,” the complaint says. “Kevin Malarkey sold the concocted story, allegedly about Alex’s life and what Alex allegedly experienced, to one of the largest Christian publishers in the country.”

[Continues . . .]

[Davin]

I feel sad for that kid. And I understand that it takes a lot of courage to turn back on a lie that he had kept alive for a long time.

The lie was bad, but his turning on it was a good move. It won't undo all the damage he did, but it is a good step forward.

[hermes2015]

So it was a lot of malarkey.

[Dragonia]

^^^ I know, it's almost too perfect to be true!

[Tank]

The dishonesty in some people is astounding.