Happy Atheist Forum

Let's discuss your views on Self Defense, the legality of guns, knifes, and other weapons, when violence is justifiable ect . . .

I've never owned a gun.  I do carry a knife from time to time. I'm not sure there is such a thing as an opinion on self defense.  That would seem like an opinion on water being wet.  Wouldn't everybody agree that we all have the right to defend ourselves?

The is a claim that when a gun is brought into a house,
it is more likely to harm a family member than protect them.

Knives don't seem like a defensive weapon.
They are'nt big and shiedly like a shield.
They're sharp and pointy like a knife.

How many people carrying a knife know what they're doing?
Present a knife in your own defence and you raise the stakes.
If you succeed you may end up in jail.

I learned of lot about self defense by watching this educational video  
[youtube:3g86v77u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w[/youtube:3g86v77u]

I am of the opinion that every person should be able to defend themselves from assault or home invasion. Whether it be with their hands or a weapon.

If your attacker is intent on causing you bodily harm, you are well within your rights as a human being to shoot him/her until they have ceased attacking you.

Whether you pretend to agree or not, if some crazed person started running at you with a chainsaw, you wouldn't hesitate to defend yourself.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"The is a claim that when a gun is brought into a house,
it is more likely to harm a family member than protect them.

Knives don't seem like a defencive weapon.
They are'nt big and shiedly like a shield.
They're sharp and pointy like a knife.

How many people carrying a knife know what they're doing?
Present a knife in your own defence and you raise the stakes.
If you succeed you may end up in jail.

MP, guns do seem to be more dangerous than they are worth when there are children in the home.  However, if I was a woman who lived alone, I'd certainly own a gun if it was legal (maybe if it wasn't).  All weapons are defensive weapons.  A shield isn't a weapon, it's a shield.  Not much to know about knives buddy, point the sharp end at the bad guy and thrust.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"The is a claim that when a gun is brought into a house,
it is more likely to harm a family member than protect them.

Knives don't seem like a defensive weapon.
They are'nt big and shiedly like a shield.
They're sharp and pointy like a knife.

How many people carrying a knife know what they're doing?
Present a knife in your own defence and you raise the stakes.
If you succeed you may end up in jail.

Well I both agree and disagree with your post.
Sure a knife isn't a good defensive weapon if you don't know what you're doing, but what weapon is in that situation?
In my opinion, a blunt object like a bat or crowbar is a better defensive weapon, smash them in the knees and down they go.

If we're talking about guns, most of the time the presence of a gun is a strong deterrent towards attackers.
Who's going to proceed to rob a house with a gun pointed at them? I'd recommend a small caliber like a .17 or .22, that way there's a very small chance of it being fatal compared to a larger caliber.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"A shield isn't a weapon, it's a shield.  

You're sure about that?

Quote from: "humblesmurph"Not much to know about knives buddy, point the sharp end at the bad guy and thrust.

Have you ever played tennis, or another sport you’re not familiar with, against someone who does?
Oh you’re probably right, how hard can it be.
I just hope my opponent is gentlemanly enough to stand still...

MP, A shield could of course be used as a weapon, so could a pencil.  A knife or sword or bat or gun might be a little more useful in fighting somebody off.  

I know how to use a knife, and a tennis racket for that matter. A knife would be very useful if somebody tried to rob me with a knife.  A mugger wants my money, not a knife fight--at least not with me.  A friend of mine was raped by a man who had no weapon, a knife would have been useful.  I've had two friends mugged with no weapons involved (two separate incidents). In both cases two guys just jumped out and demanded money.  No way they get away with that if my friends had knives.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"MP, A shield could of course be used as a weapon, so could a pencil.  A knife or sword or bat or gun might be a little more useful in fighting somebody off.  

I know how to use a knife, and a tennis racket for that matter. A knife would be very useful if somebody tried to rob me with a knife.  A mugger wants my money, not a knife fight--at least not with me.  A friend of mine was raped by a man who had no weapon, a knife would have been useful.  I've had two friends mugged with no weapons involved (two separate incidents). In both cases two guys just jumped out and demanded money.  No way they get away with that if my friends had knives.

Is money that important to you? None of my possessions is more important to me than my health and well being. It's not about material loss at all, it's about emotional loss of face in the case of a mugging where no violence is involved. The funny thing is I regularly walk around with £1,000+ of camera kit on me and it's not the sort of thing one can hide. If somebody threatened me with violence for the camera gear I'd hand over the gear and buy better stuff with the insurance money! The only loss to me would be any images on the memory card that I had not yet downloaded to my PC.

I have the serial numbers of all the kit I own and that can be traced on ebay if they try and sell the stuff. A friend of ours had their garage broken into and the kids bikes stolen. They made a concerted effort and within a week they had found one of the bikes for sale at a local shop. They bought it back and over the next few months the shop owner was charged with receiving stolen goods (from his brother   ) and both ended up in court and the number of burglaries in the area dropped dramatically.

Personally I would not feel comfortable carrying a weapon of any kind for self-defence.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"MP, A shield could of course be used as a weapon, so could a pencil.  A knife or sword or bat or gun might be a little more useful in fighting somebody off.

I know how to use a knife, and a tennis racket for that matter. A knife would be very useful if somebody tried to rob me with a knife.  A mugger wants my money, not a knife fight--at least not with me.  A friend of mine was raped by a man who had no weapon, a knife would have been useful.  I've had two friends mugged with no weapons involved (two separate incidents). In both cases two guys just jumped out and demanded money.  No way they get away with that if my friends had knives.

Quote from: "Tank"Is money that important to you? None of my possessions is more important to me than my health and well being. It's not about material loss at all, it's about emotional loss of face in the case of a mugging where no violence is involved. The funny thing is I regularly walk around with £1,000+ of camera kit on me and it's not the sort of thing one can hide. If somebody threatened me with violence for the camera gear I'd hand over the gear and buy better stuff with the insurance money! The only loss to me would be any images on the memory card that I had not yet downloaded to my PC.

I have the serial numbers of all the kit I own and that can be traced on ebay if they try and sell the stuff. A friend of ours had their garage broken into and the kids bikes stolen. They made a concerted effort and within a week they had found one of the bikes for sale at a local shop. They bought it back and over the next few months the shop owner was charged with receiving stolen goods (from his brother   ) and both ended up in court and the number of burglaries in the area dropped dramatically.

Personally I would not feel comfortable carrying a weapon of any kind for self-defence.

Tank, it's not about money, it's about my personal liberty.  Obviously if it is more prudent to run, I'll run. Let's say the man doesn't want your camera, but he wants you to bend over to take it up the woo hoo, do you fight then?  BTW, a gun has very little practical purpose besides killing.  I carry a knife and have never used it in self defense. I have however used it countless times for, well, cutting.

I don't have a problem defending myself, and know how to do so.  Circumstances would have to dictate whether I actually did or not.  For instance, early in my adulthood, I was twice robbed clerking at a liquor store.  The first time was at knife-point, and I had a baseball bat; the second time was at gunpoint, and I had access to a .357, usable with little fuss or danger of being found out by the robber.

At neither time did I resist.  The money wasn't mine, and was insured.

Had I been walking down the street, perhaps I'd have a different story; as pointed out above, it's dependent on circumstance, not any moral imperative.

Self defense makes sense to me.  Stuff defense?  No.  They can have it.  It's just stuff.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Self defense makes sense to me.  Stuff defense?  No.  They can have it.  It's just stuff.

I agree entirely.

In a hypothetical situation I tend to say I could never hurt another human being. But that's just abstract morality, If I were actually in a position where I had to defend my life against someone else, I don't think I would stick to my pacifist convictions.

I'm just crossing my fingers hoping that doesn't happen.

I think that if you aren't trained in how to make sure the attacker won't be able to take your weapon away from you that you are better off not carrying a weapon.  The average person probably will freeze and not be able to pull the trigger even if they are being attacked; why do you think they have to do so much in the army to dehumanize the enemy?  The average person most definitely would not be prepared to do something as intimately brutal as fighting with a knife.

I can kick pretty hard and have a couple bats and other blunt objects in the house...assuming hiding didn't work I would resort to a hit and run like hell technique and hope for the best.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Self defense makes sense to me.  Stuff defense?  No.  They can have it.  It's just stuff.

I agree.

I don't believe that firearms are effective enough for self-defense to offset the dangers they present.  In a system where guns are easy to get there are just more guns floating around.  Sure, you might not ever do anything bad with your gun but the guy who steals it while you're at the grocery store probably will.  You might never have a gun accident and get hurt but your children might.  Never underestimate a kid's ability to get into things.  People almost always do.  And if your gun is safely locked away in a cabinet, how are you going to use it for self-defense if someone breaks into your home?  

Cops, who have a crapload of training and undergo psych evaluations, still manage to panic in the heat of the moment and shoot people they ought not to.  I don't trust your average Joe or Jane to do even as well.  I don't trust myself to do as well.    

A knife in your hand can be turned against you in a split second.  When I was an underfed street kid, weighing in at less than a hundred pounds, I took an assailant's knife away.  He was a good eight inches taller and at least fifty pounds heavier than I was.  Then again, he was distracted by raping me.  I got cut up and messed up but I survived to tell the tale.   If I could take away a knife, absolutely anyone can.  I admit I carried a knife after that but I never used it and it didn't help a bit when I was assaulted the next time.  It may have eased my ambient terror level a bit, to sleep with a knife clutched in my hand but it didn't prove useful, well, other than for cutting things and my pocket knife served that purpose well enough already.  But it sure would have been great if the guy hadn't had the knife in the first place.

I think that killing in self-defense or in the defense of others is sometimes justified.  I'd rather try to disable the person but sometimes it might not be possible or work well enough to stop the person from continuing to attack.

I am going to preface everything I say with this: I am a trained military police officer.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"Self defense makes sense to me.  Stuff defense?  No.  They can have it.  It's just stuff.

This does make the assumption that upon taking your stuff they won't kill you anyway. Are you willing to bet your life on the "honor" of some robber? Often the last thing a criminal expects is physical resistance, you are better off to resists as hard as possible than allow yourself to become a victim.

I prefer a ladder of force methodology. If someone threatens you, you use an equal amount of force to subdue the threat. If equal force fails, you move up the ladder until something works. At the lowest rung on my ladder is verbal force, yelling "Stop, Get away from me!" Next is physical methods, martial arts punches, kicks and take downs. Above that is chemical weapons such as pepper spray (which I always carry). Lastly is deadly force, which can be anything from a kick to the head to a firearm (which I don't always carry with me, depends on where I'm going).

If somebody threatens me, or someone else for that matter, with deadly force, I will respond with deadly force. If someone threatens me with simple physical violence, I'll rely on my hand to hand training. If that fails, I move up the ladder.

Guns in the house, especially with children, do pose a problem. There are simple fixes to negate the danger. One method is to lock the weapon up in a gun safe, this is how I treat my long arms (rifle, shotgun). If I need to get one of those out, it's all ready hit the proverbial fan. For my pistol, if it's not in the safe, I simply keep it holstered on my person. My nephew cannot get into it accidentally if I am in direct possession of it.

Of course everything is based upon what you are comfortable doing. If you're uncomfortable with the thought of carrying a gun, then don't. I certainly wouldn't want to be around someone who is carrying a gun and uncomfortable in doing so. Secondly if you are comfortable with the concept of using weapons, get training! The biggest gun the world is merely a dangerous paperweight if you don't know how to use it correctly and safely.

QuoteCops, who have a crapload of training and undergo psych evaluations, still  manage to panic in the heat of the moment and shoot people they ought not to. I don't trust your average Joe or Jane to do even as well. I don't trust myself to do as well.

While it is true that accidents happen and sometime a bystander is shot, this is an extremely rare event. Far more often the officer, or civilian who uses a firearm for self defense doesn't even have to pull the trigger. I personally have drawn my weapon twice (in the line of duty) and haven't shot anybody, I hope I never have to. The problem is, if nobody gets shot, the news media isn't going to report the incident, so you rarely hear about someone successfully using a gun to defend themselves. There are of course rules and laws about drawing a firearm, you'll have to research those yourself if you're interested.

Self defense is far more than carrying a weapon and knowing how to use it. Your mind is the greatest weapon you could ever possess.

Situational Awareness is the biggest factor in staying alive. Next time you go out to a busy location take a moment to notice the people around you. How many of them seem to be in their own world, oblivious to what's happening around them? That oblivion is often (not always) what get's people robbed, raped or killed. Criminals know when someone is not paying attention, that will play a huge factor in who they choose to attack. So wither you choose to carry a weapon or not, don't disarm your brain. A billion years of evolution have given us an ability to sense danger before it happens, you just have to be aware.

My personal rules are as follows:

Always avoid sketchy situations whenever possible. (for example I don't go to liquor stores or quickstop type places after 10pm)
Always be aware of your surroundings.
Fighting is always bad, but if you must fight, win. <- stole that nugget of wisdom from "The Karate Kid"

Like I said - if a situation comes to self defense, I'll defend myself.  But if someone comes up to me with a gun and asks for my stuff, I'm not going to try to hurt them over stuff.  It's just stuff.  I don't see it as being a victim, though I can understand how someone might, I see it as being reasonable in an unreasonable situation.  If I hand over my stuff and the person still tries to hurt me, that's when self defense kicks in.  This could backfire, the person could kill me as soon as I hand over my stuff, but it could just as easily backfire in any situation and for me, this seems like the safest, most logical route to take.

You are right, you have to choose a point at which you will begin to resist. I was making a generalization and naturally every situation is different.

For example, if I was walking downtown and someone tried to mug me, they're unarmed, I'm unarmed, I'd resist.

But if he had a knife and got to within 5-6 feet of me, even if I was armed with my gun, I'd drop my wallet and try to escape while he goes to pick it up. I'm not going to shoot someone if there's a mean by which I can escape. It's only a last resort.

Self defense is fine. Which precisely why I don't understand stories like: three kids ganged up on one. The one kid knew karate. The three kids ended up in hospital. The one kid gets in trouble.

Now "turn the other cheek" is mandatory?  

Oh lordy, where did that happen?

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"Always avoid sketchy situations whenever possible. (for example I don't go to liquor stores or quickstop type places after 10pm)
Always be aware of your surroundings.

Add to this -
Don't work the night shift.
Don't be a woman.
Don't be homeless.

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"That oblivion is often (not always) what get's people robbed, raped or killed.

A person with criminal intent is always, 100% of the time, what gets people robbed, raped, or killed.  It's important to be aware of your surroundings but you'd be surprised how many people turn a victim's lack of such awareness for the crime itself, lessening the blame on the criminal.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"That oblivion is often (not always) what get's people robbed, raped or killed.

A person with criminal intent is always, 100% of the time, what gets people robbed, raped, or killed.  It's important to be aware of your surroundings but you'd be surprised how many people turn a victim's lack of such awareness for the crime itself, lessening the blame on the criminal.

I was referring to prevention on the part of the would be victim. Of course it's the criminal's intentions that cause the crime. I would never insinuate that a person was attacked or raped because of something they did or didn't do. I'm just saying that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

I suppose it's a knee-jerk reaction on my part.  I actually had police respond to a report I made with "what do you expect, you're homeless?" as if that meant, "no need to investigate, no crime has been committed here."  There were worse reactions which I'm phrasing carefully so I don't get too worked up.  Put simply, many cops won't believe a homeless woman isn't a prostitute or doesn't deserve everything that happens to her, that it's 100% her fault if someone harms her.

For me, in high school, being gay was a lot of fun...<strong sarcastic not there> I had to defend myself a lot, and I got sent home at least a half dozen times a year, but everytime I did, I told the principle that I'd do it again when it happened next. To her credit she would smile, nod and tell me that she knew. She had to follow the rules set for her. In Maine, the year I graduated, I came out by putting a kid against a wall  for harrassing an out friend of mine. Violence may not be the answer for everything, but for others it is the only one.

Oh lordy, I so had a great troll plotted out for your post, Gaytheist -- but I'm not that big a jerk.

And yes, there are times when fighting is necessary: sad, but true.

The way I see it, every human has the inherent right to NOT have their teeth kicked in, the moment they act in a way that threatens either my well-being or the well-being of others, they lose that right.

I would feel fully justified defending against an attack, with lethal force if absolutely necessary.

Quote from: "skwurll"The way I see it, every human has the inherent right to NOT have their teeth kicked in, the moment they act in a way that threatens either my well-being or the well-being of others, they lose that right.

I would feel fully justified defending against an attack, with lethal force if absolutely necessary.

Just a little thought here, but I have always wondered what an 'inherent right' is. And I'm not sure there is such a thing. One can't can it, or box it so it has to be a human concept, it has no physical measurable quantity and can it be described qualitatively? So I'm not 100% sure one can have 'the inherent right to NOT have their teeth kicked in', society can agree that it's a bad thing and should not happen. Is that an 'inherent right' or a an agreed position?  Just a random though, I get lots of those  

Quote from: "Tank"..... 'inherent right' is. .... One can't can it, or box it .....

With the way things are going here at the moment..... I'd give canning it a try, I have a dozen pint jars just waiting to be filled  lol


Gee..... I think I've inhaled too much vinegar lately... you think?

Quote from: "KDbeads"

Quote from: "Tank"..... 'inherent right' is. .... One can't can it, or box it .....

With the way things are going here at the moment..... I'd give canning it a try, I have a dozen pint jars just waiting to be filled  lol


Gee..... I think I've inhaled too much vinegar lately... you think?

When I wrote that line I thought of adding (if KDbeads con't can it nobody can!)
 

Heck I'll even try the pressure canner just to see if it's possible  

I am going to have to pull this necro thread out .

I am going to say this, the mysticism created around a tool is simply from ignorance.

Years ago, people took their 9 year old sons out and taught them to hunt with guns. They shot deer after rabbit after squirrel and had to clean and cook every one of them. Trust me, it real quickly turns into a tool when used properly. When you kill an animal and have to cut its intestines out, you have no misconceptions or wonderment about what happens on the business end of the muzzle. Because of that, you didn't have kids shooting themselves as frequently. They KNEW what happened.

From my training and experience in the military, I felt perfectly safe walking around a base in some other country where everybody had a full loaded machine gun. We ate with them and slept with them and short of a few accidents in the clearing barrel, there were no deaths due to friendly fire.

It is a tool. It is a tool for killing, make no mistake. It is our protective shielding of children in ignorance when they are so curious. They see guns on every TV, every movie and in many toys. We are naturally drawn to its power. Either the wool from childrens eyes should be lifted or they have no place in their lives or homes. Even then in the US, where so many guns exist, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and make sure my children know exactly what happens.

In all other cases, some people spoke of some horrible things. Rape and robbery, are they worth the life. More importantly, can you live with yourself for taking a life of someone for those reasons. In the past, we had families of 8, 10 even 12 or more children because death and disease would claim so many. Today we have fewer children and expect them all to live. We place such a high value on life compared to days past that people are a stranger to it. They would chose to give up the item vs killing a person.

In such cases, I think you have to let each person make their own decision on what they can live with and not fault them for it. Yes, it is a right but it is one that is being less excercised as we value life more.

If someone points a knife or gun in my face and asks for my wallet, i'll happily give it to them if it means myself and anyone i'm with are able to walk away unscathed.
If the attacker wants something else from me, like my anal virginity for instance, then i will fight my ass off (no pun intended).

Luckily nothing like that has ever happened to me. I hope it never will. I consider myself fairly sensible, so you won't see me walking through Mosside at 2am on my own.

Depending on how many people and how much expensive property I risk as collateral damage, my defence strategies may vary.

Usually though, unless firearms are involved, I prefer to deal maximum damage in minimal time. I exclude firearms because I was never threatened by one directly, so I have no idea how I'd react even though I have some training in close quarter combat against a pistol-armed adversary.

I have been doing Jeet Kune Do and Kali for about two years.

What I have learned is I need no weapon to do horrible things to someone. I have also learned that I would do anything to avoid a fight. I do not want to put the skills I have learned into practice, unless I have absolutely not other option.

Quote from: "Dretlin"I have been doing Jeet Kune Do and Kali for about two years.

Kali is nice! Do you prefer stick, blade or empty hand?

QuoteWhat I have learned is I need no weapon to do horrible things to someone. I have also learned that I would do anything to avoid a fight. I do not want to put the skills I have learned into practice, unless I have absolutely not other option

Oh, weapons are just something that makes doing terrible things easier. A lot easier. It only takes a few pounds per square inch of effort to fire a gun or cut a major artery - takes a bit more to crush a windpipe or snap a neck

In any case, doing anything to avoid a fight is not really sensible, now is it..? Some times anything is just not worth the effort. Trying to calm down a junkie threatening you with a knife can, after all, prove far more dangerous than neutralising his threat by force.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Dretlin"I have been doing Jeet Kune Do and Kali for about two years.

Kali is nice! Do you prefer stick, blade or empty hand?

QuoteWhat I have learned is I need no weapon to do horrible things to someone. I have also learned that I would do anything to avoid a fight. I do not want to put the skills I have learned into practice, unless I have absolutely not other option

Oh, weapons are just something that makes doing terrible things easier. A lot easier. It only takes a few pounds per square inch of effort to fire a gun or cut a major artery - takes a bit more to crush a windpipe or snap a neck

In any case, doing anything to avoid a fight is not really sensible, now is it..? Some times anything is just not worth the effort. Trying to calm down a junkie threatening you with a knife can, after all, prove far more dangerous than neutralising his threat by force.

At the moment I prefer empty hand or with one/two karambit's. Of course the beauty of Kali as an art is that it is the same regardless of what is in your hands. As I am sure you may know!    

I personally think new Kali and Wing Chun are great for self Defence and as an Art. Not brilliant martial sports, though I have seen some brilliant Kali fights.

Now, in your example, when I see that junkie I do see a threat and I also see how ripping his/her eyes out and breaking his/her knee will probably not help them with their addiction! If I can disengage from the situation, I will do that. If he/she is indeed utterly determined to cause me or anyone else harm, then yes, I will be forced to act. Unfortunately, I have not reached a level of skill which means I am confident with the more passive defence techniques. I would jump straight into the nastiest moves I know, which is seems wrong.

And if you know Kali, which you sound like you do, you could kill someone with your pair hands or leave them with or without something for the rest of their lives. I am very reluctant to do that. Even if they threaten me.

Only if I have no other peaceful option.

I know Kali to a degree (no grandmaster, but competent enough). The idea of defending against angles of attack rather than countering certain moves fascinated me and so I decided to learn. And loved it.

I prefer blades myself, but as you said, it's more a matter of personal taste than altering fighting styles.

Quote from: "karadan"If someone points a knife or gun in my face and asks for my wallet, i'll happily give it to them if it means myself and anyone i'm with are able to walk away unscathed.

That's kind of an interesting "if."  What is it based on?  Is there some sort of reason to believe that the kind of person who points guns at people to rob them are of the most stalwart character, honor, and honesty?

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Laser Sailor"Always avoid sketchy situations whenever possible. (for example I don't go to liquor stores or quickstop type places after 10pm)
Always be aware of your surroundings.

Add to this -
Don't work the night shift.
Don't be a woman.
Don't be homeless.

Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

Of course, females are more likely to be victims of rape.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

Of course, females are more likely to be victims of rape.

Well, while possibly true, I am not sure exactly what it has to do with what I posted.

Quote from: "SSY"Well, while possibly true, I am not sure exactly what it has to do with what I posted.

:twocents:

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

In the UK males are 3 times more likely to be victim of violent crime and 90percent of the homeless are males. So yes, your correct.

Quote from: "Dretlin"

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

In the UK males are 3 times more likely to be victim of violent crime and 90percent of the homeless are males. So yes, your correct.

I wonder if rape is not counted as a violent crime to get this statistic?  One in six American women get raped but some stats I've found say that only 2-3% percent of American people are victims of violent crime.  That doesn't mesh - rape is a violent crime so shouldn't the percentage be much, much higher?

Quote from: "Dretlin"

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

In the UK males are 3 times more likely to be victim of violent crime and 90percent of the homeless are males. So yes, your correct.

Aaaah, I missed a vital fact here - in the UK.  In the US, males make up about 67% of the homeless population.

There are obviously a lot fewer homeless children and women in the UK.  Children and teens of both genders make up a large proportion of the American homeless population.  It used to be that about 90% of our homeless people were male but those figures have changed a lot in the last thirty years with the number of homeless children going through the roof lately.  One in fifty American children experiences homelessness each year - not counting homeless teens.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"That doesn't mesh - rape is a violent crime so shouldn't the percentage be much, much higher?

I would think so.  In California rape is a strike.  If you rob a house and have a friend with you it's considered (and counted as) domestic terrorism.  Not that terrorism has anything to do rape, but if they can classify something nonviolent as terrorism you'd think they'd classify rape as violent.  But then "rape" might include nonviolent forms of rape that aren't included in "violent crime".

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Aaaah, I missed a vital fact here - in the UK.

Saves me posting a reply!  :hmm:

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Kylyssa"That doesn't mesh - rape is a violent crime so shouldn't the percentage be much, much higher?

I would think so.  In California rape is a strike.  If you rob a house and have a friend with you it's considered (and counted as) domestic terrorism.  Not that terrorism has anything to do rape, but if they can classify something nonviolent as terrorism you'd think they'd classify rape as violent.  But then "rape" might include nonviolent forms of rape that aren't included in "violent crime".

Do the same thing they do with calling robbery "domestic terrorism" and call rape "sexual terrorism".

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Dretlin"

Quote from: "SSY"Actually, males are more likely to be victims of violent crime, though of course, this factor will be swamped by the effect of being homeless.

In the UK males are 3 times more likely to be victim of violent crime and 90percent of the homeless are males. So yes, your correct.

I wonder if rape is not counted as a violent crime to get this statistic?  One in six American women get raped but some stats I've found say that only 2-3% percent of American people are victims of violent crime.  That doesn't mesh - rape is a violent crime so shouldn't the percentage be much, much higher?

To be perfectly honest, I would look more deeply into the 1/6 statistic, that seems awfully high to me. I can't imagine rape could ever be classified as non violent, even sexual assault is counted in that category?

Quote from: "SSY"To be perfectly honest, I would look more deeply into the 1/6 statistic, that seems awfully high to me. I can't imagine rape could ever be classified as non violent, even sexual assault is counted in that category?

Us silly Americans classify all illegal sexual intercourse as rape.  This include Pedophilia, Ephebophilia, too drunk to say "yes", rape by pharmaceutical incapacitation...

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "SSY"To be perfectly honest, I would look more deeply into the 1/6 statistic, that seems awfully high to me. I can't imagine rape could ever be classified as non violent, even sexual assault is counted in that category?

Us silly Americans classify all illegal sexual intercourse as rape.  This include Pedophilia, Ephebophilia, too drunk to say "yes", rape by pharmaceutical incapacitation...

Are you saying the inclusion of these types of intercourse would account for the 1/6 figure?

Quote from: "SSY"Are you saying the inclusion of these types of intercourse would account for the 1/6 figure?

Without implying I know the accuracy or inaccuracy of the figure, yes.