Because as everyone knows, atheist have no concept of right and wrong. I was at a community gathering the other week and one of the men there suggested to the group that atheists aren't capable of moral conduct because they have no guidance from god to direct them.
I was furious but I had promised my wife ahead of time that I would behave if something like this happened. I bit my tongue and let it go.
This is one of Xianity's more lame arguments, and they have so very many of those. The idea that mankind would be incapable of moral judgement without some invisible magical elf outlining right and wrong, good and evil for us says more about how weak they are as people. Maybe they can't determine right from wrong without input from the divine voices in their head but I, and probably everyone else here, can.
Now, I'm going to go rape a few virgins before feasting on the flesh of a newborn. I'm getting hungry.
In my opinion, they are correct and they are incorrect at the same time.
Morality is such a BS concept.
There is no such thing as absolute right or absolute wrong.
Theists are correct when they say that without an all perfect source of right and wrong that humans are incapable of deducing absolute right and absolute wrong.
I agree with them 100% on this.
However, their belief in a god does not mean that there is a god, and does not mean that this god has accurately provided them with the absolute rights and absolute wrongs.
For what purpose are these rights and wrongs? So that the god can judge us and then justify sending us to eternal torment?
Secular society only needs rules so that we can coexist peacefully together. Atheists can understand this need through reason and observation. Strangely, we can do this without burning witches and heretics and without oppressing homosexuals.
What scares me is the implication that Xtians would have no concept of right and wrong without imagining a god telling them what to do. And how many Xtians have turned up on this forum, claiming that without belief in god they'd be running around boozing, drugging, whoring and all what not. It's just mindblowing -- I gave up trying to believe in a god nearly 40 yrs ago and it's never once occured to me to drink, do drugs or charge for sex, much less anything worse. I have to hope they are exaggerating or just making wild, thoughtless assumptions about themselves or I'm going to have to upset ThinkAnarchy by suggesting even more laws be enacted to deal with these potential mindless powder kegs.
What kind of community group was this?
I don't believe that (most) Xtians really would go hogwild without religion, or anyway, not any more hogwild than people already are. In the history of humanity, I can't see any evidence that religion has stopped people from stealing, murdering, warring, and so on. Nor do I see any evidence that suggests that atheists are more likely than the average Xtian to go on rampages. I think the truth is that most people have a sturdy sense of right and wrong in their heads, regardless of what beliefs they follow, but that no one always does whats right, and things get even more complicated as situations get complicated. We believe it's wrong to kill people, but if we feel they are a threat to us, that may well go out the window, no matter what we believe. And so on. I think that Xtians who believe that god is the reason that they aren't out raping and pillaging aren't giving themselves enough credit. And Xtians who believe that they have the cornerstone on morality are giving themselves way too much credit.
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quite right! Bend over boy!!
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 04:25:28 PM
I think the truth is that most people have a sturdy sense of right and wrong in their heads
Early on in life, as children, most of us found out that when we snatched toys or hit others they then hit us back.
So we stopped snatching toys (certainly from the big kids) and we stopped hitting others (well, those that were bigger than us). Sometimes life's lessons are all we need, not some magical sense of right and wrong.
Quote from: Stevil on April 01, 2012, 08:13:17 PM
Early on in life, as children, most of us found out that when we snatched toys or hit others they then hit us back.
So we stopped snatching toys (certainly from the big kids) and we stopped hitting others (well, those that were bigger than us). Sometimes life's lessons are all we need, not some magical sense of right and wrong.
That's part of it but for most people I hope there is also empathy.
I have memories of being a jerk as a kid, just verbal cruelty long past but it still makes feel like crap to think about it.
Quote from: Tank on April 01, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quite right! Bend over boy!!
:D
Edited to add: can I watch?
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on April 02, 2012, 03:03:06 AM
That's part of it but for most people I hope there is also empathy.
I have memories of being a jerk as a kid, just verbal cruelty long past but it still makes feel like crap to think about it.
Yes, empathy and an understanding that society is bigger than the self. With age we learn to be responsible, accommodating, non judgmental, supportive etc. Generally we come to an understanding that we ought to work together and help each other out.
Kids are kids, for some reason, with immaturity comes a need to put down others.
I've got my nasty regrets too.
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 04:25:28 PM
I don't believe that (most) Xtians really would go hogwild without religion, or anyway, not any more hogwild than people already are. In the history of humanity, I can't see any evidence that religion has stopped people from stealing, murdering, warring, and so on. Nor do I see any evidence that suggests that atheists are more likely than the average Xtian to go on rampages.
Actually, if you care to look there is compelling evidence of the opposite.
Quote from: Tank on April 01, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quite right! Bend over boy!!
And thank you very freaking much for those images in my head! :o
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on April 02, 2012, 03:05:52 AM
Quote from: Tank on April 01, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quite right! Bend over boy!!
:D
Edited to add: can I watch?
:-X
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Oh good, I'll send some guys over with whips (which is something it looks like you like O_o)
Now don't run like your masters were behind you! ;D
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Oh good, I'll send some guys over with whips (which is something it looks like you like O_o)
Now don't run like your masters were behind you! ;D
You could always send some ladies over suitably equipped with artificial you know whats!
Quote from: Tank on April 02, 2012, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Oh good, I'll send some guys over with whips (which is something it looks like you like O_o)
Now don't run like your masters were behind you! ;D
You could always send some ladies over suitably equipped with artificial you know whats!
*scratches chin* yeah, could be. Maybe I shall have to call up one whose subconscious screams
sadomasochist for him. Luckily for him he can keep his beliefs intact, as condoms won't be needed.
Or they could just forget the artificial penises and use the whip handle instead.
Like this you mean? ;)
http://satwcomic.com/women-s-rights
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg517.imageshack.us%2Fimg517%2F6655%2Fpmslsu0.gif&hash=864936626eaf8fd08f72c935dec3770cf5cd5bb5)
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 04:25:28 PMWhat kind of community group was this?
It was just a neighborhood social gathering at the clubhouse of my in-laws residential community. Somehow one of the many conversations going on turned Xian because everyone seemed to be Xian (except for me, of course) So the general consensus was one of agreement that atheists can't possibly know how to be decent, moral beings with no divine magical pixies outlining it for us.
They were all "Yup!" "That's right." Each clueless confirmation sinking them all ever deeper into a morass of ignorance from which they will probably never be rescued.
It was a headache inducing level of stupid.
Quote from: Tank on April 01, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Gotta admit, though, deep within my subconscious mind, there's probably something that would enjoy a good, bloody, rape. t(O_O)t
Quite right! Bend over boy!!
This thread has taken a totally unexpected S&M turn that I had no idea was going to happen but I'll bet god did. :P
You guys bring the dildos, I'll bring the spanish fly. :-X
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 04, 2012, 08:01:43 PM
You guys bring the dildos, I'll bring the spanish fly. :-X
God knew you were going to say that. :o
Wheee!!! Godless party! ;D
Looks like I came back just in time for the orgy. Let's see . . . we have the whores, the dungeon masters, the bondage equipment . . . I'll bring the wine and coke, but who's in charge of the fruit platter?
I'd bring the fruit platter but I'm too tired to prepare it. I'll be responsible for the lube.
Quote from: Dobermonster on April 11, 2012, 02:01:05 AM
I'll bring the wine and coke, but who's in charge of the fruit platter?
I guess I'll have to volunteer...
QuoteWe said some stuff.
Ready to make this the night we never want to remember but can't seem to forget? :-X
Quote from: MadBomr101 on April 04, 2012, 02:11:28 AM
Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 04:25:28 PMWhat kind of community group was this?
It was just a neighborhood social gathering at the clubhouse of my in-laws residential community. Somehow one of the many conversations going on turned Xian because everyone seemed to be Xian (except for me, of course) So the general consensus was one of agreement that atheists can't possibly know how to be decent, moral beings with no divine magical pixies outlining it for us.
They were all "Yup!" "That's right." Each clueless confirmation sinking them all ever deeper into a morass of ignorance from which they will probably never be rescued.
It was a headache inducing level of stupid.
You should have introduced them to the Euthyphro dilemma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma) and the logical shortcomings of Divine Command Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_theory).
Quote from: The Semaestro on April 22, 2012, 08:43:20 AM
QuoteWe said some stuff.
Ready to make this the night we never want to remember but can't seem to forget? :-X
If you let me slip something into your drink, I can take care of that for you.
SHOCKED that NOBODY volunteered to bring any babies. You can't have a gathering of this magnitude without consuming innocent little babies!!! I don't have any to offer up, perhaps someone could go find a couple. I'll bring the tabasco sauce!
Quote from: Jimmy on April 23, 2012, 03:09:45 PM
SHOCKED that NOBODY volunteered to bring any babies. You can't have a gathering of this magnitude without consuming innocent little babies!!! I don't have any to offer up, perhaps someone could go find a couple. I'll bring the tabasco sauce!
The Asmo. I think we all took it for granted he was bringing them. :D